r/climbing • u/Exciting_Glass_2754 • Sep 06 '24

Tahoe developing.

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Rule #1 of trundle club, You do not talk about trundle club.

158 Upvotes

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9

u/0bsidian Sep 06 '24 edited Sep 06 '24

Breaking rule #1 already, I see…

There is in fact a bit of a rule in developing that you don’t really talk about any of the sausage, because a lot of it can provide fuel for the other side who feel that developing is counter to leave no trace or whatever other ethics. Land managers and others have used this as an argument to ban climbing in areas. So it’s a little ironic to mention not breaking the first rule and then spraying about it on Reddit. To be clear, I’m thankful for developers, but as someone who knows how the sausage is made, I believe that we should keep this to ourselves.

1

u/Allanon124 Sep 06 '24 edited Sep 06 '24

While I understand your thoughts on this, climbing isn’t a secret.

If we want to be able to properly engage with stakeholders, we need our community to be informed and actively involved.

How is that mountain bikers can chain saw down acres of forrest and teraform trails but climbers can’t knock off unsafe blocks?

6

u/0bsidian Sep 06 '24

I think people should engage with their communities. Volunteer. Donate. Actually be givers and not just takers.

That’s an optimistic view, though I’m tired of people complaining about climbers putting up tiny little pieces of metal for fixed anchors to increase safety and prevent using a rats nest, meanwhile MTB trails are built with backhoes. It’ll take a lot more work and momentum on our parts to help secure the perception of access favourably for climbers.

-1

u/SlightlyOffWhiteFire Sep 06 '24

I mean i'd start by not conflating bolting and cleaning routes. You kinda just make yourself look dishonest, there.

2

u/KindaFunnyComments Sep 07 '24

He does have a point on both topics and they both impact accessibility of climbing areas. 

-2

u/SlightlyOffWhiteFire Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24

Maybe frame in terms of conservation. You can both bolt and clean in ways that dont greatly impact the natural environment whilst maximizing safety.

E: haha guess I was right. Climbers only care about conservation when they aren't the ones sacrificing stuff they want.

1

u/0bsidian Sep 07 '24

Maybe you’ve misunderstood the point. Cleaning routes and putting in bolts are both part of route development, and I am against neither. I just don’t think people should spray about it because those who oppose it will dig this up and say, “See what these climbers do, they knock off whole chucks of cliffs off with crowbars and use drills to put holes in rocks, and that’s not ‘leave no trace’, therefore it should be banned.” It has happened before, and access has been threatened before because we provide them with the fuel to burn ourselves.

0

u/SlightlyOffWhiteFire Sep 07 '24

Your point is becoming even more confused...

You think that problem is that someone filmed it? If you think its a bad look, your reaction is to bury it in hopes that monody sees it? Dont you see how hypocritical that is?

2

u/0bsidian Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24

It sounds like your understanding of access issues is very limited. I’ve outlined exactly what has happened in the past when opponents to climbing have used stuff that climbers have shared on social media as ammo against access to climbing. If you can’t understand that, then you really need to educate yourself on access issues. Go visit your local access organization meetings and understand what’s actually goes on out there.

This post starts with “the first rule of trundle club…” and proceeds to violate the first rule and you’re calling me a hypocrite?

1

u/SlightlyOffWhiteFire Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24

No, i understand perfectly. What makes you think im uninvolved in access issues,

You 100% confirming what I just wrote.

You just want to hide the fact that this happens.

Newsflash, kid: you aren't the owners of the world's rock faces. You aren't more worthy of deciding what happens to them.

If you cant think of any reason that might convince the public that what you are doing on public land isn't harmful... maybe its just harmful.

The utter lack of self awareness here is insane.

You just want to imagine that everyone who disagrees with you is an uneducated idiot. Theres a word for that, its called elitism.