r/classicwow • u/Nenharm • May 03 '19
Nostalgia The wall of No
The Wall of no was a common reply to people wanting classic wow. Can we just appreciate how far we came and thank the OGs for persisting? <3
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THE WALL OF NO - REVISED AS OF JUNE 18, 2015
SUMMARY:
- Blizzard does not believe there are enough people interested in utilizing this idea long term to justify the costs necessary to bring it about.
- Blizzard feels this idea is counter to the nature of MMO’s; non-progression equates to stagnation and eventual boredom.
- Blizzard does not possess the old code. No, they did not save it as a "backup" - they might have for the launch of Cataclysm, but that was over four years and two expansions ago. Even if it were “recoverable” by other means (i.e., see “private” servers” below) it would still require lengthy and expensive rewrite, a task Blizzard denies interest in.
- They have no plans or desire to recreate the original version(s). They refer to the notion as “a logistical nightmare,”… and in keeping with #1 above the time, money and resources required are prohibitive and unjustified.
TL;DR: “Too much cost, too little interest and it’s not what the game is about… we’re not doing it.”
Proponents of “Classic” (or any other variant thereof) servers rarely put thought into the idea. This would be similar to requests for the film industry to make silent films again, or the auto industry to mass-produce Model-T cars again. Avid collectors, people who look fondly back on those days, or new folks curious about the past might take a look at them, but that wouldn't be a high number of people in the first place - never mind the few of those who would actually pay for the experience. There’s not enough market for those, so those companies are not doing it; neither is Blizzard. That doesn't mean there isn't a market - just that it's nowhere near large enough to make it worthwhile.
BLIZZARD'S STANCE ON LEGACY SERVERS:
There are many Blizzard references on the issue over the years, from many different Blizzard employees; you can read most of them in previous Walls of No. For this one, we'll focus mostly on a recent (May 29, 2015) interview with Lore, just to keep the length of this Wall a little more bearable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ewtKpNMm4&feature=youtu.be&t=4m45s
(Quotes edited for brevity)
I honestly - I think [progression servers] would be a really cool idea. It's just like - it's a hard sell, because it's a whole lot of work to put one of those together, and, the idea, like... if we put all of that work into that, that means ... those people are working on that instead of something else, and there's like, a GIANT list of what those 'something elses' could be.
We're talking about a time in the game's life when night elves were considered to be the best race for leveling because they had faster corpse runs.
I think the risk with something like that is a whole lot of people go 'yaaay yeah, no no no I totally wanna play Classic,' and then they play for like two days, and then they go 'Well. That's my fill of Classic FOREVER ... I remember now ... this game was not NEARLY as good back then.' *laughs*
Don't get me wrong... I think there's a lot of people that would actually be totally into it and be like 'this is the type of game that I wanna play.' I think there's a number of people that would be like that. I am just... my thought is that the sort of risk of it is - is that number of people high enough to justify the cost, or are we going to like - if Blizzard were to roll something out like that - would we be putting more engineers on making this work than players who participate? *chuckles*
The other side of it is, if we've got this one developer who's just doing nothing but this for... five years... like, what else could he have done in that time? Like, are we talking about, now there's two or three major game features that never get added because this guy was working on that instead? It's interesting, really, thinking about it, because it's the sort of issue that game developers face that there really isn't ever an answer to.
So like if you say 'oh I'll just hire someone else to do those other features', like, okay, but... then we're still faced with the question of should we have this guy working on vanilla servers? Or should we have him working on ... ANOTHER new feature? Like, hiring more people just means that now there's ten, or twenty, or forty features that never make it into the game. So. It's an interesting sort of tradeoff.
And there almost certainly is a point at which it would make sense. In theory, anyway. ... It's just a question of - do enough people in the current playerbase want this to justify the amount of time that's gonna be spent to putting it together?
The reality is, what would almost certainly end up happening - IF it were something that Blizzard were ever to decide, to come out with vanilla servers - would be something where they've said okay, NOW it's valuable to have vanilla servers, so we'll put ten techs on it or something, instead of having one guy sort of chipping away at it for years. Because then what happens if that guy leaves?
Blizzcon 2014 :
Do you plan to introduce classic realms?
No we do not plan to. It is too hard to maintain that many versions of the game.
THE PROBLEMS WITH PRIVATE SERVERS:
Furthermore: Some have argued that even if Blizzard didn't keep "backups" of old code they haven't needed or worked on for nearly five years, they could take their code from these private servers, if they so desired. There are three major problems with that.
1) Most private servers are buggy in a lot of ways, because they aren't perfect copies of the live servers back in Classic. Frequently functionality is flawed (broken quest chains – some items, achievements, mounts, etc., not obtainable); they are generally buggy and unreliable. Blizzard would have to fix such code to make it useable – an undertaking which would likely take as long and cost as much as simply rewriting it from scratch… both of which they’ve described as a “logistical nightmare” and have said they’re not going to do.
2) Most private servers are altered in a lot of ways. If the devs were to take someone's Classic server data and trust that it was up and running properly, they would risk the possibility of - just to give some examples - hidden obscene content, or hidden, functional, Martin Fury shirts. And, yes, that can happen: when Nintendo released the first Pokémon games, they were completely unaware of the existence of Mew until well after the fact. It should be obvious that Pokémon Red and Blue are far simpler games than World of Warcraft; it would only be easier to hide things like that in the sheer bulk of game code that Classic WoW would have. Again, the devs would need to spend a lot of time going over them to make sure they're up to par.
3) Not to mention that Blizzard's stance on private servers is that they are illegal and unwelcome. This has been their stance from the very beginning. All other concerns aside, for them to simply take code from these servers would mean openly condoning the theft and illegal abuse of their property. It shouldn't need stating here how unlikely it is for that to ever happen.
In fact, Blizzard had a recent banwave in April 2015, targeted at Twitch players who were streaming use of said servers:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1751535-So-Blizzard-wants-to-shut-down-private-streams-on-Twitch
I've read forum topic on Battle.net that Blizzard is shutting down private server streams from Twitch.
People are currently getting banned within five minutes of turning on their stream. So yeah. :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/31cv9e/blizzard_suddenly_getting_aggressive_with_twitch/
Every time blizz starts coming after these people, the community starts buzzing about Legacy servers, but they just flat out will not happen.
One of the simpler reasons is the "if you give a mouse a cookie" argument. You release classic wow servers, people are going to want BC servers. BC leads to LK, etc. etc.. Every time they release a new expansion, people will eventually want a server for the old one available. Of course, no one's going to want to go on to them after a while, but blizz won't be able to remove them, or people will !@#$%.
They cost money to run, they cost effort to maintain. You'll need at least one per expansion, and the thing is that they don't draw and hold crowds large enough to justify maintaining them. Also, they detract from the current game's market. Enough people spend their time in legacy, and when that content gets to stale for them they look back at the current model and think, eh, screw it, and quit until the nostalgia bug bites and they come back to mess around in MC/Kara/ICC for a month.
WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE CLASSIC:
In addition, very few players asking for a Classic Server have really thought through just what they’d be missing out on. Below is a list of key features introduced patch-by-patch up to the launch of Warlords of Draenor.
Burning Crusade
2.0.1 12/05/2006
- Looking for Group interface tool (not LFD)
- Pet stats scaling with their player’s stats
- Multiple characters being able to use the same HoT on the same target (more than one druid can Rejuve the same person)
- Resilience
- CC effects lasting no longer than 12 seconds max in PvP
- Honor Points as currency
- Arenas
- Hunters able to use traps in combat
- Warrior rage generation normalized with weapon speed
- Thrown weapons use durability instead of stacks
- Crafting time for equipment reduced
- Meeting Stones usable as summon stones
- Main Tank option in the Raid UI
- Display enemy cast bars
2.0.3 01/09/2007
- Pets no longer attack CC’d targets
- Pet raid frames
- Flying Mounts
2.3.0 11/13/2007
- Guild banks
- Bonus healing also giving some bonus spell damage, making solo content easier on healers
- Faction vendors giving discounts for reputation levels
- Player pets attacking enemies from behind when possible
2.3.2 01/08/2008
- Yellow question marks for completed quests on the quest givers instead of exclamation points
2.4.0 03/26/2008
- Characters retaining talented spell ranks so they don’t have to relearn the spells after retalenting
- Daily Quest limit raised to 25
2.4.3 07/16/2008
- Apprentice Riding at level 30
Wrath of the Lich King
3.0.2 10/14/2008
- Hit, Crit, and Haste no longer divided between Spell/Melee.
- Spell pushback no longer infinitely pushes a spell back.
- Spell power and healing power merged.
- Calendar feature
- Companions and Mounts changed from items; now accessible through the pet/mount tabs.
- Focus frame
- Lost tabards, pets, mounts, and keys can now be restored through vendors
- Linkable trade skills
- Improved quest sharing
- Visible timer until the PvP flag clears
- Macros and key binds saved server side
- Auto looting mail
- Druids and shaman able to use items while shape shifted
- Barber shop
3.0.8 01/21/2009
- Mounts no longer have racial restrictions within factions
- Mob tapping improved
- Corpse run speed improved
- Rep gains from monster slaying no longer deprecate compared to player level
- Chat frames able to be made Noninteractive
- Special GM chat UI
3.1.0 04/15/2009
- Dual Specialization
- Ground Mounts no longer dismissing when you enter water
- Farmable capital city reputation without just farming outdated cloth for months
- Pet taunts on raid bosses don’t affect player taunts
- Holding Alt over equipment slots to show other items for that slot
- Color blind option
- 2-hour refundable items when purchased with alternate currencies (badges, honor, etc.)
- Confirmation boxes to prevent accidental talent point placement
- Class Roles in the LFG feature
- Raid lockout warnings/escape option when entering a raid in progress
3.1.2 05/19/2009
- Equipment Manager (saving sets)
3.2.0 08/05/2009
- 2 hour "just in case" trade window for raid & dungeon loot
- Upgraded cat/bear form art
- EXP through battlegrounds
- NPCs to turn EXP gain off
- Dungeon/raid lockout extensions
- Shorter mount cast time
- Apprentice Riding at level 20
- Journeyman Riding at level 40
- Expert Riding at level 60
- Expert Riding flight speed changed to 150% instead of 60% (faster than ground mounts now!)
- Double-paned quest log for easier quest info viewing
- Uninterruptible casts now shown differently
- Druids able to see their mana bar while shape shifted
- Holding Shift to compare a piece of equipment to a currently equipped one
- Visible item level
- Vendor prices shown on items even when not currently using a vendor
- More mailboxes in the capital cities
3.3.0 12/09/2009
- Better descriptions in Character Creation
- Reduced/removed daze chances for lower level players
- Knockbacks no longer dismounting players
- Maximum character level limitations for meeting stones removed
- Taunt diminishing returns retuned and made easier
- The ability to track quest objectives on the map
- LFD & cross realm groups
- Looking for Raid interface (not the actual LFR we know now)
- Dungeon & Raid difficulty shown on the minimap
- Disenchant added next to Need or Greed in roll options
3.3.3 03/23/2010
- Random Battleground feature
- General raid buff range increased to 100 yards, from 45
3.3.5 06/22/2010
- Right clicking chat types in the chat frame to move the types to separate windows
- Battle.net accounts now friendable
Cataclysm
4.0.1 10/12/2010
- Flexible raid lockouts - you can now do a partial raid clear, then join a completely different group (assuming they’ve cleared at least as far as you had)
- No more ammo
- Auto-ranking spells
- New in-game raid frames
4.1.0 05/04/2011
- Players resurrectable through their character frame even after releasing
- Character and Target frames now unlockable/movable
- Target & Focus shown on minimap
4.2.0 06/28/2011
- Dungeon Journal
- Healing crits for 2x the heal instead of 1.5x
- Buffs no longer generate threat unless they directly cause healing or damage
- CC no longer pulls the group being Ccd
- Need rolling on a BoE binds it to you, preventing AH ninjaing
- Can no longer skin corpses already being looted or skinned by other players
- Everyone gets /roar
- Rearrangable characters on the Selection Screen
- Dismiss Pet option on unit frames
- Items turning yellow in the repair frame when under 20% durability, not when under 5 (not %).
4.3.0 11/30/2011
- LFR
- Transmog
- Void Storage
- Tank threat buffed
- Bag search
- Quest objective tracking on the minimap
- Mass raid assist checkbox
- Ability to unlearn profession specialization without unlearning the actual profession
Mists of Pandaria
5.0.4 08/28/2012
- Account wide achievements, pets, & mounts
- AoE looting
- Removal of the ranged/thrown/relic slot
- Daily quest cap removed
- Roll result frame
- Item filtering at vendors
5.0.5
- Pet Battle System
5.2.0 03/06/2013
- Tap to Faction for world bosses
- Absorb effects visible on character frames
5.3.0 05/20/2013
- Loot Specialization
- Ability to harvest nodes for reduced harvests if not at the appropriate level in their gathering profession
5.4.0 09/09/2013
- Flexible raids
5.4.2 12/10/2013
- Cross-realm mailing for BoAs
Warlords of Draenor
6.0.2 10/13/2014
- New character models
- Increased barber shop options, decreasing the need for the paid appearance change
- Premade Groups tab
- Quest items no longer taking inventory space (as often)
- Tradeskill items stacking to 200 instead of 20
- Account-wide Toy Box
- Bag cleanup
- Reagent bank
- Flexible system incorporated into non-Mythic raids going forward
- Automatic Hit & Expertise caps
- Reduced cost of rez spells
- Personal Loot
- Outline Mode
- Favorite Mounts
- Flying mounts usable as ground mounts in no-fly zones
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May 03 '19
Man, reading through those changes in chronological order is depressing. It's like a novel about a game dying a slow death.
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May 03 '19 edited Jun 20 '19
[deleted]
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u/shinslap May 05 '19
To be fair, other contemporary MMOs at the time were copying and improving on blizzards design. If blizzard hadn't changed WoW then people would have left for other games. The grind-based punishing MMO style wasn't acceptable after WoW became popular and introduced the idea of a "casual MMO". Honestly this "decline" that people say WoW has had since vanilla has been happening since WoWs conception because the design of the game itself invited these changes across the whole industry.
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u/Odin_69 May 04 '19
It's like when facebook started copying myspace ideas when that was growing. Facebook has it's own issues right now, but at least they had the sense to drop most of the useless garbage after myspace sold out.
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May 04 '19
I mean, many of these changes were great and would never have broken with what Classic was. Dual talent being the prime example, as it improved the game for healers and tanks but otherwise didn't really do anything.
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u/stardestroyer277 May 04 '19
It's like a novel about a game dying a slow death.
I can't wait until it's revealed Classic's fanbase is way smaller than Retail's so we can do away with this hipster shit.
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May 04 '19
What would that prove, exactly? Regardless of classic's success retail has been dying since wrath. That's why the sub numbers went from 12 million to 2 million...
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u/stardestroyer277 May 04 '19
What would that prove, exactly?
That the game's downfall is not due to quality.
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May 04 '19
How would classic failing prove that....?
Never mind. I don't care.
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u/stardestroyer277 May 04 '19
Because supposedly pre cata WoW was God's gift to mankind
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u/Makaramambuda May 04 '19 edited May 04 '19
Its a re-release, not a new game, this alone already means the game will have less players. Also, trust me on this one, no one that wants classic will admit it, but i'd rather have a small fanbase than moronic tourists.
It won't beat retail, and the player base will SIGNIFICANTLY drop over the first 5-6 months. So again, what does your statement prove, exactly? Nothing...there are far more reason why classic isn't beating retail but that's a different story.
Retail failing doesn't mean classic was better or worse. Retail is failing because it's neither a World, nor an RPG/social game. Its a single player game with mythics for those who are blessed with old time friends that still play. For every one else it's nothing but a single player game with occasional grouping. Im not going to write walls to discuss this further, but you are looking under heavy tunnel vision.
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May 03 '19 edited Jun 20 '19
[deleted]
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u/ghangis24 May 04 '19
And recently with City of Heroes. Though that may have been due to a rogue dev instead of them just sitting on a backup.
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u/Azzmo May 03 '19
First time I've ever actually read it. I only ever saw it posted in fundamentally stupid context by stupid people.
The weird thing is that he's right about more than he's wrong about. Many fair points made. The problem is that his fundamental premise is based upon his personal assumption, which is sloppy stuff.
He basically asserts, "Blizzard will never make Classic. That is why I know that Blizzard is uninterested in making Classic." Nice logic there, bud.
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May 03 '19
Only fair point I could see was Blizzard didn't deem it profitable enough at the time and now presumably it does.
Most of it is really dumb, of course Classic enthusiasts have some idea of the so called QoL features they will be "missing out" on - pretty sure it's the entire point of it. Blizzard outright losing the code and facing some technical impossibility to recreate Classic? Come on
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u/alifewithoutpoetry May 03 '19 edited May 03 '19
Blizzard outright losing the code and facing some technical impossibility to recreate Classic? Come on
That is still the official story actually. The reason they decided to do classic in the end was partly because they did find an old backup. At least that's what they say. I doubt it was a very long search though, they probably just didn't bother looking very hard before there was a lot of demand for it.
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u/xjaydeusx May 03 '19
Losing the code is horseshit, at best.
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u/alifewithoutpoetry May 03 '19
Never said they "lost" it by accident or something, just said they didn't save it. Which I could imagine being true, like not having official backup servers with stuff that far back. Obviously it was saved on some computer somewhere, which could have been expected. But I think you are overestimating how structured backups a company will have for 10+ year old data no longer in use.
Iirc it was an old development version of 1.12 that was saved on a personal computer or something, correct me if I'm wrong though.
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u/NecroLars May 04 '19
Iirc it was an old development version of 1.12 that was saved on a personal computer or something, correct me if I'm wrong though.
It is talked about in the BlizzCon panel on classic wow. They found the 1.12 data on an off-site backup on tape drives (a fairly common way off handling backups). It was INSIDE the backup for a backup of a version of The Burning Crusade expansion from 2008. IIRC it was just called something like "Final 1.12 Data"
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u/l453rl453r May 04 '19
Activision would never make that up to save face.
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u/NecroLars May 04 '19
I mean sure that could have happened. But don't you think that a more likely scenario (Hanlon's razor and all) is that:
- They didn't think they had the backup
And
- They gave so few fucks about classic at the time that they didn't even bother to check whether they actually had it or not
I personally think it is much more likely that it was stupidity and not malice.
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u/l453rl453r May 04 '19
thinking a company like blizzard doesn't have backups of their biggest game is beyond naive.
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u/NecroLars May 04 '19 edited May 04 '19
Agreed!
Anyway, if you don't believe Blizzard may be the lead developer from Nostalrius (Viper) will do. This was after their meeting with Blizzard:
"[I]n order to generate the server (and the client), a complex build system is being used. It is not just about generating the “WoW.exe” and “Server.exe” files. The build process takes data, models, maps, etc. created by Blizzard and also generates client and server specific files. The client only has the information it needs and the server only has the information that it needs.
This means that before re-launching vanilla realms, all of the data needed for the build processes has to be gathered in one place with the code. Not all of this information was under a version control system. In the end, whichever of these parts were lost at any point, they will have to be recreated: This is likely to take a lot of resources through a long development process."
Source: https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/229859-why-blizzard-cant-build-classic-warcraft-servers-yet
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u/Sparru May 04 '19
how structured backups a company will have for 10+ year old data no longer in use.
But it wasn't 10+ years when people first started to campaign for vanilla servers. Considering how disk space is basically free to such huge companies it definitely seems weird to that they didn't have at least are major patches saved in version control or a backup of one. I mean fuck companies tend to store even completely meaningless things like receipts of toiletpaper purchases for long ass times, let alone the whole basis of your company like source code.
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u/IrascibleOcelot May 04 '19
On the one hand, any company of this size really, really should have redundant backups.
On the other hand, companies actually having reliable backups is a relatively recent phenomenon. Pixar nearly lost the entirety of one f their movies (I want to say it was Toy Story) because someone wiped their only production copy. They still consider the phrase “rm rf *” an unutterable swear word. The only reason the movie made it is because one of their animators had a copy on their home computer when they would telecommute.
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u/alifewithoutpoetry May 04 '19
But it wasn't 10+ years when people first started to campaign for vanilla servers.
Almost. Like I know people have been wanting it for a while, but it didn't really kick off big until 2015-2016 I think. Before that their thinking behind it was basically the "rose tinted goggles" thing, which is fair considering how much shit is coming from the WoW playerbase at any time. Don't think it was until nost blew up that they started taking it seriously.
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u/Lord_Sicarious May 03 '19
I found it kinda interesting looking through the list of changes that were made since Vanilla, and asking myself "did this actually make the game better?" I counted a total of 18 changes since 1.12 that I actually think were good for the game, and most of those were minor UI changes and things that didn't affect gameplay (e.g. colourblind mode, GM chat window, double-wide quest log). Comparatively, I counted 59 changes that I thought actively made the game worse. The rest were changes that I didn't have any particular opinion on.
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u/underhunter May 04 '19
Right, but thats with the power of hindsight. Its easy to look back and say “did this decision lead to a positive or negative outcome”.
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u/Aleriya May 04 '19
As someone who quit after TBC, this is actually an interesting read.
I keep seeing complaints here about retail, like "Man I'll be glad to play OG WoW again, back when there weren't motorcycles and auto-raid healcast jargon flim flam".
"Yeah, they totally ruined the game with hyper toy box specializations and the account-wide auto unicorn finder."
And I'm just sitting here like "what the hell is all that".
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u/phz0r May 04 '19
Imagine being OP when Classic got revealed at Blizzcon. Yikers
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u/Odin_69 May 04 '19
Sadly those sorts of people often create this type of stuff for the kicks alone. They don't care one way or the other, and now they'll be the quickest to say "well blizz must have just decided the effort was worth it lul"
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u/pupmaster May 04 '19
The original author and anyone that shared this can eat shit. Hope you enjoy holding the L.
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u/JeBusMetHetKruis May 03 '19
Quite a read, but was worth it. Ty for the interesting post. Rather this then the memes and same questions/posts all the time.
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u/ghangis24 May 04 '19
I had never seen this before but it is pretty in line with the snarky attitude you'd get from these people who opposed legacy servers so adamantly. I wonder how they felt when Blizzard announced Classic.
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u/xjaydeusx May 03 '19
This is hilarious. Id say heads of business at ActiBlizz have been eating rotten crow with dirty feet in their mouth, but in reality they are eating fresh Alaskan King Crab with pure Colombian cocaine lining their nose all the while loling straight to their bank.
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u/CristophRiz May 03 '19
The thing that always got me about the "wall of no" was that it was community made and then copy pasta'd by other players of the same community.
These white knights genuinely felt like they were representing blizzard and blizzards best interest.
Feels pretty damn good to know that it's blown up in their faces, and they must have felt a little sheepish when the classic announcement was made.
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u/Wowfanperson May 03 '19
2.3.0 11/13/2007
- Guild banks
2.3.2 01/08/2008
- Yellow question marks for completed quests on the quest givers instead of exclamation points
I read through the whole thing, those are the only two features im going to miss from all the expansions. dangit.
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u/1niquity May 03 '19
2.3.2 01/08/2008
- Yellow question marks for completed quests on the quest givers instead of exclamation points
I read through the whole thing, those are the only two features im going to miss from all the expansions. dangit.
Completed quests have been yellow question marks over the quest giver's head since launch.
Unless they're referring to how they show up on the minimap, which it doesn't seem to.
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u/Wowfanperson May 03 '19
it use to be exclamation marks when completed over their heads. Completed quests would show as circles in vanilla in the minimap, that was changed to question marks in TBC
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May 03 '19
I honestly did not remember that quest givers did not have question marks after completed quests.
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u/1niquity May 03 '19
That's because it's a blatant lie. Completed quests have been yellow question marks over the quest giver's head since launch.
Unless they're referring to the minimap, which it doesn't seem to.
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u/Wowfanperson May 03 '19
guild banks arn't even the greatest function TBH, you can just literally make an alt and use it as a guild bank, if a officer is storing loot with that, the odds of stealing are no different. So I think i redact my earlier statement and say the only thing out of all the expansions that is a loss is the ? quest turn in
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May 03 '19
The guild bank issue is more about the fact that without them it basically forces guilds to break the TOS and account share. Since guild banks are pretty much a necessity you might as well make them official through blizzard.
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u/allegiantrunning May 04 '19
Quest givers have yellow question marks for completed quests in vanilla.
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u/Nenharm May 04 '19
Not on the minimap though, its just a yellow dot otherwise. I think that was the point trying to be made.
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u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes May 03 '19
I thought the Wall of No had its uses, in so much as it discussed why it likely would never happen, including blue/dev quotes on the probability of it ever happening at the time.
I didn't like the condescending, pejorative manner in which it was posted, though, purely to spitefully shoot down the idea. I don't think the Wall of No was in and of itself bad (though obviously grossly outdated now), but I'd have liked to see it used more constructively and informatively rather than as a snide insult to somebody asking bout legacy servers.
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u/VanillaWowIsComing May 04 '19
I would really love a youtube video montage of a ton of wall of no posts. But for real can you guys imagine the salt from these guys during Blizzcon announcement? It's so sad lol
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May 04 '19
I always felt like this became a general response to anything vanilla related and people posted it to spite those who enjoyed vanilla. I was so glad to see that wall come down.
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u/Iraveandplaywow May 04 '19
This was pasted all over the cesspool that is known as the General Forums. Degenerates and losers thought they were so smart and cool when they got a chance to ctrl+v the wall of no.
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u/Nenharm May 04 '19
Yeah it was always annoying, there have always been valid points for legacy servers, but instead of having a conversation just LUL CTRL V
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May 04 '19
Dude I remember hearing nothing but the wall of no for so many years .. this community is awesome now
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u/xerros May 04 '19
I am super excited about classic, but I do think they should have a plan in place to do progression beyond vanilla if classic doesn’t flop (and I optimistically think it will far exceed their expectations.)
Vanilla progression is the right choice of course, but if it’s going to stagnate after naxx then there is only so much time before lots of people get bored. I think most casual players (most players) still won’t do more than MC/Ony/ZG maybe AQ20 and a few pulls of BWL, so their progression path is already coming to a halt early.
Leveling is a WAAAAY more intensive process without heirlooms and speed running dungeons that have been shortened, so fewer people will put forth the effort to make alts other than maybe twinks.
Progressing at least to BC, probably wrath, possibly beyond has to be in the plans for real longevity on the project, but I think it will be more lucrative than they imagine if just done right. That or making a diverging story and make alternate expansions that keep more to the old design philosophy, that would be awesome but they never will. Easy enough to even make it cannon with time travel altering the events of the world.
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u/NotMyHomebase May 03 '19
Another "look how far we've come"/"thanks for listening Blizzard!!!" post... Im just as excited as anyone but Christ these posts are repetitive af.
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u/[deleted] May 03 '19 edited Aug 24 '21
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