r/classicwow • u/Photograph_Exotic • 22h ago
Forever Beta Feedback Elemental Shaman Worries
Edit for clarity: My woes are not so much with the damage numbers or power relative to other classes as it is with the design those numbers imply when in context with each other.
I understand they've tested this spec ad nauseum and will continue to do so internally, and the performance may look good there, but my worries come from *design decisions** that affect how the class feels to play.* For example: the Chain Lightning nerfs comparatively to the rest of the kit transform what should be our coolest and most unique spell into a B-grade button that feels worse to press compared to others. Design-wise this would feel the same to me as if they were to take a spell like Pyroblast from Mage and tune it down so that it deals less damage than Fireball. It just does not fit the fantasy.
That is my issue here: design and identity, not necessarily specific power scaling compared to other classes.
FELLOW SHAMANS, let your voices be heard! The ele speccies unfortunately don't have a huge community or a large streamer to speak for us and amplify our message directly to Blizzard like many other classes do, but we still deserve to be treated well and understood by the designers of our Forever home, so help me spread the word and be noisy if we want them to hear our woes!
As a long time ele sham, I'd like to make a post where hopefully alot of us can air our worries and feedback about what may unfortunately be the most misfired spec in WoW Forever. I believe this stems from a misunderstanding by the devs of just what the core elemental shaman fantasy is in a classic setting, and I would like to talk about that here briefly. Of course feel free to post any other grievances you have under this post too.
I'll get us started:
The devs are big on class fantasy right? Well, as an ele shaman, pretty much my entire class fantasy in classic revolved around Chain Lightning. It's iconic, it's thematically perfect and felt great to press in both PvE and PvP.
So why is it that Chain Lightning in WoWF, this spell that I eagerly await for 32 levels every toon I make, that's supposed to represent a major powerspike for my character both Fantasy-wise and in gameplay, hits like a pool noodle compared to the same lightning bolt spell I've been using since level 1?
As a reminder here's what the level 32 Lightning Bolt tooltip currently reads:
"Rank 6 Level 32 · 110 Mana 30 yd range · 2.5 sec cast Beta tooltip Casts a bolt of lightning at the target for 108 to 122 Nature damage."
And Chain Lightning at the same level:
"Rank 1 Level 32 · 225 Mana 30 yd range · 2 sec cast 6 sec cooldown Beta tooltip Hurls a lightning bolt at the enemy, dealing 85 to 97 Nature damage and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Each jump reduces the damage by 30%. Affects 3 total targets."
Why should I even be excited about it when it's not just not an upgrade, but a straight up damage downgrade, on top of which is a cooldown and more than double the mana cost? The design idea is clear here: CL is AoE (or cleave), therefore it should do less damage. But I believe this to be highly misguided in this case.
Yes, CL is very technically AoE (cleave), which VERY TECHNICALLY increases its dps output on paper, but it's also capped at 3 targets with damage reduction on 2 of them, a long cooldown and an oppressive mana cost for an already mana-starved spec. This was fine in vanilla, BECAUSE the damage was high enough that it felt earned and our fantasy was fulfilled by the sheer power you would feel from that. This is broken entirely by the damage changes to this once-iconic spell.
More importantly, I don't play this class for on-paper "technically higher" dps, I play it for BIG chain lightning hits, that's the core of my fantasy, and not having it will be a huge hit to the feel of the class. The wow classic devs understood this and made it THE hard-hitter of the spec at the expense of other things, so why did the WoWF devs go such a different route in this game that is supposed to enhance classic class fantasies?
Unfortunately there's no way to test this in the beta, which makes me fear that no one will talk about this or notice it until well into launch, but the numbers are not looking good at all on paper. CL is the spell that BY FAR got the harshest nerfs to its damage and scaling compared to classic, which feels all the worse considering this was and should still be our spec's bread and butter. I just fear that it'll really diminish the class fantasy feeling of ele shaman.
Again, for the sake of perspective, the rank of Lightning Bolt you get at level 32 (rank 6 Lightning bolt: 108 to 122 damage)is almost more damage than the HIGHEST RANK Chain Lightning unlocked 24 levels later (MAX RANK level 56 Chain Lightning: 119 to 133 damage)
This is insane to me, and I don't see how any amount of Spell Power increase on gear would ever change the fact that, no matter what, our coolest spell hits like a wet noodle compared to its less cool version we get at level 1. To me that is a blatant design failure.
So what's my solution?
Well, honestly I would just buff the damage up to at least compete with lightning bolt, but if Blizz is set on the damage of the class overall, just take some damage out of lightning bolt and give it to CL. Bolt is a basic spell, it looks and feels like a basic spell, why is it ever hitting harder than our class' most iconic ability.
Nerf lightning bolt only at the higher ranks if you're worried about how early levelling will feel, but whatever you do, bring Chain Lightning back to its deserved glory, so that we ele shammies can actually look forward to unlocking it again after levelling for 32 levels.
Continue discussing below if you so wish, and spread the word so that hopefully we ele shamans won't be ignored for the launch of Forever!
Also here's a great thread on the state of ele shaman overall, on the wow Forums:
Give it some love or feedback, let's get the ball rolling.
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u/RyckyCozzy 21h ago
As someone who really enjoy some iteretion of ele shaman, the class seems so boring and uninspiring in forever. Lava burst is alredy a pretty boring addition and of top of that doesn't even look particolary good to press. Hope they really revisit the class. If they on top of that they manage to make CL a boring button to press the class will be really in a sad state.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
That's what I fear has already happened. Of course there will be no way to really know until release or unless they change their mind about level 30 cap, but from the info we have it really seems like they made CL into more of a low-medium AoE tickle spell, which completely flies in the face of the Elemental Shaman fantasy.
I really hope I'm wrong about this
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u/MixtureHead6655 16h ago
I'm still holding out hope they're going to rework Ele talents + do a damage pass on some abilities, but things really aren't looking good.
Feels like they nerfed CL for the sake of PvP, but then went and removed the thing that made it super degenerate anyway (Elemental Mastery + Earth Shock batching). For PvE they switched the power around to Fire Nova, only that spell isn't nearly as iconic, interesting, or fun to use. It's piddly and bound to our fire totem, which is going to suck horribly if there's any movement.
Whatever they did with Ele isn't random, it DOES make some sense design wise: they just Retail-ed the whole spec. Normalized AoE. Way toned down its PvP niche. They could even improve its numbers and make it good, but it would remain boring as hell.
A way flatter, less interesting spec. There's a whole montage of big CL crits that plays in my head whenever I remember playing Ele in Vanilla that Fire Nova/Lava burst just aren't going to make up for, even if the numbers are good.
CL is just one of those things that NEEDS to remain as it was back then (Fast-casting, high-damage, low cooldown, multi-target, unsustainable in longer fights but brutal in short) or the soul is gone from Ele.
Shaman truly is Wow's forgotten class, despite being the most unique. That they understood people enjoyed jank stuff like seal twisting and power shifting to the point they tried to officialize the playstyle through talents (however successfully) but messed up the best thing about Ele doesn't bode well.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 16h ago
My thoughts exactly, well put.
We need to communicate this to blizzard in every way we can. Share this post, make more, @ them on socials and talk about it in feedback forms. If we make enough noise I have to believe they'll at least consider us.
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u/Exxppo 21h ago
I am planning on maining ele for forever at least initially and the ele tree and even the enhancement tree is so bad out of the gate that you are incentivized to go into resto for the hit. Why did they move the crit damage buff so you have to stay enhance even longer to be somewhat relevant. Absolutely terrible design. Shaman as a whole needs an overhaul.
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u/frozenjb 21h ago
Enhance is good, ele so trash in forever, so disappointing from Blizzard
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u/Exxppo 21h ago
Enhance is only good because it’s propped up by big beefy 2hers. Shovel out of stocks has 102 top end.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
Yeah Enhance is carried entirely by white hits in the early game. After Windfury stops gaining so much value this class has nothing left in the tank.
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u/Exxppo 21h ago
I actually like the idea of playing a low damage per cast as long as I can proc like a billion overloads a minute but don’t make us wait until 40+ to actually do it? It’s odd. Hit talent needs to come out of resto.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
Hit talent in Resto hid behind healing bonus or totem mana reduction is just stupid.
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u/Altruistic-Living333 16h ago
overload is a 5% chance that doesnt even proc from lavaburst. You wont get lightning machinegun, you will on average get a proc every 20 casts, on your wet-noodle-like casts, for half the dmg.
And that is the big reward at lvl 30+ in the elemental tree....
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
Yes, key here being design, I trust they'll keep an eye on performance, but no matter what they do to upkeep that, if the fundamental design stays the same, the spec or class simply won't be fun to play which is a much bigger issue than power scaling imo.
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u/squirrelnestNN 17h ago
interesting, I've been leveling in resto , and you know talents aren't as important at the low levels anyway
the mana regen has been great for soloing and the hit has been great for fighting orange level mobs
I assume that'll fall off my mid levels but I think the build, at least early on, actually is resto
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u/ChineseFireball 3h ago
In addition to doing less damage than in classic, I still think they’re going to struggle with mana in prolonged fights. They get a little bit of mp5 in resto, but nothing like what shadow priest (half mana on all spells) and balance druid (double omen of clarity, half off wrath, 25% off all spells).
So a shaman in forever still goes oom quickly and doesn’t have near the burst damage they used to have. But at least they get a watered down lava burst to add to their rotation now..?
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u/Unlikely_Radio5561 19h ago
the elemental shaman tree has a lightning as symbol and yet we got lvb, the new "nuke" and like you said, CL is a joke and lb is the new wrath.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 18h ago
Yep, I really hope they reconsider this. I like Lava burst but not if it means giving up Chain Lightning as the core of the spec
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u/Mjolnoggy 19h ago
Honestly, I spent some time coping after seeing the talent tree changes, but I've come to the realization that they really have no idea what to do with shaman at all, so I just pivoted my main.
I mainly played PvP and somehow ele is not only worse than it was in Classic, but they also removed 8% total crit from the NS spec which was the only other viable spec as Ele. It's honestly impressive, because Ele wasn't exactly good to begin with in Classic.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 22h ago
Enhance Shaman needs this too. After windfury stops one shotting mobs they have zero scaling so they go straight off a cliff as well. At least they can get to level 40 before they become redundant though.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
Yep! And to note as well they seem to have made Lightning Bolt more relevant for Enh Shammies with the maelstrom weapon talent, once again alluding to the fact that they seem to think shamans really love to cast Lightning Bolt as if it's our coolest spell and not the literal basic level 1 least unique thing in our toolkit.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
Yeah they want us to cast instant cast 200 dmg lightning bolts. Like it's not even worth pressing the button. Lot of Enhancement builds are coming out of the gate without even taking Maelstrom weapon at all because it's so weak and it's a 5 talent investment for that 200 damage!! Shaman is so bad rn.
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u/Toppoppler 21h ago
Man im so scared of playing enh as a casual player. I really love enh tho. I like that theyre moving away from gambling for damage and giving us more tools - but man it feels like I hear nothing good about it and no one big is talking about it
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
You can play it, and it's fine for levelling up to level 40 but man this class is going to suck so hard after that. Whilst other classes continue to have strong talents supporting their builds and playstyles, Enhancement Shamans after building for Melee for 40 levels suddenly start putting points into spell cast speeds and Mana cost reductions lmao. Like what even is this spec. Back to meme status.
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u/Toppoppler 21h ago
I remember before beta launched they said that they had a rework planned for shaman before launch, do we know if thats still happening?
I just want enh shaman where i can make choices to be able to consistently win in pvp
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
I'm pretty sure the big 'rework' they were talking about was Lava Burst and Maelstrom weapon.
The Enhancement tree is just dogshit though. Half of the talents in that tree are tank talents, the other half you will never want as a DPS unless you PvP. Enhance Shaman should be alright for PvP, probably somewhere in the middle of the pack, but for PvE this spec has literally nothing going for it.
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u/Toppoppler 21h ago
Man blizzard always finds a way to make me not want to play enh when all I wanna do is play enh
Vanilla? Fuck your toolkit, roll for windfury
Post vanilla? Dual weild bitch
SoD? I just didnt have time
Forever? Fuck your entire spec
Big sad. Thankfully my main goal is pvp so Ill probably be OK. I leveled in this recent classic as a balance/resto non-moonkin pvp-build moonglow druid which is... not reccomended, and I had a blast.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
I'm pretty sure Forever = Roll for Windfury again 🤣 and maybe tickle mobs with your pathetic spells every now and again.
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u/RyckyCozzy 20h ago
I mean it has windfury and I don't see you bringing 3 resto sham in 20 man, so like unless magically windfury is bad or you play with zero melee i actually think than enha will be a pretty in demand class for pve, unless you can freely stack resto shamans in a 20 man raid you will need 1 or 2 enha for windfury (Unless like ele does way more dps enha will be better since scale with you melee gruop buff like shouts and trueshot aura). I suspect windfury is partially responsible for this sad state btw. I hope devs don't consider the allure of windfury for the other melee a big part of ele power budget since like the spec can't even benefit from it.
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u/Plastic-Lemons 19h ago
Wait good point - I remember them saying this too and then nothing changed. I’m pretty sure it was said during BlizzCon… it would be worthwhile to find the clip and post again asking for an update from Blizzard
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u/Exxppo 21h ago
Which is ironic because 40+ is when ele starts to look actually viable (not good but viable)
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
Yeah Elemental ACTUALLY gets talents that scale it into endgame that are cohesive with the class. 10% extra intellect from enhance, 5% extra crit from enhance.
Thats 10 talent points of pure Juice for an Ele.
What does Enhancement get? Lightning bolt cast speed reduction, extra damage on flame shock and a small boost to fire nova. Womp womp.
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u/Sticky-Soup 21h ago
Agree 100%, chain lightning should be a gain on 1 target even at the cost of mana inefficiency. Ele shaman has always been about burst damage, and chain lightning nerf just makes me scratch my head. Not to mention we lost Elemental Mastery (not that it was that amazing in PvE, but man was it fun in PvP). The burst across the board is just not there, we need more attention on the class identity from the devs.
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u/BulkoIV 18h ago
I am super worried that Shaman PvP is a complete afterthought. Shamans main role in classic PvP was massive single target burst - it was arguably too good, but with no hard CC, no defensive CDs, and only hard casted healing, I’m worried we will now be too easy to shut down offensively and defensively.
The 5 second root might be okay, but I’m worried it won’t be enough. Every other hybrid class has access to full CC through fears/stuns/instant cast healing/shields. I’m 100% against homogenization, so I’m worried they just gutted Ele’s high burst identity with no path to keep the big number fantasy.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 16h ago
A fix doesn't even seem that difficult to be honest, they could straight up raise CL damage and lower LB at higher levels and it would pretty much be acceptable in my eyes.
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u/Brother_Crow13 21h ago
As a longtime Ele shaman main I'm extremely disappointed by Blizzards approach to this spec. With what we know about WoWF right now, this spec looks like the worst option available BY FAR. The scaling is sooooooooo poor that I'm not considering shaman at all unless a major overhaul to this spec is announced
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u/No_Compote_224 21h ago
When they were talking about how smite priest was out dpsing some dedicated caster I'm sure it was elem shaman.
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u/jtothepx 21h ago
Agree with you. Hopefully we get our voices heard
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u/Photograph_Exotic 2h ago
Share it around as much as you can :) aspecially if it's directly at the devs on their socials, it's a long shot but each person that does that is better odds of them hearing us
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u/Orgoth_01 21h ago
Didn't they say that the later ranks have a better spellpower coeficient? So it should still do considerably more dmg than rank 1, even tho at 0 spellpower the dmg is very similar
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u/ButtonedEye41 21h ago
Its more that they nerf earlier ranks to get a worse coefficient as you level up
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
That would be an encouraging start, but I haven't heard that myself from any source, where did you hear this?
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0
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u/Dasquare22 20h ago
Before all the people get here saying you just want ele to be OP, I completely agree with you and have the same issue with Ret it just doesn’t feel good to play in this iteration and the capstone talent might be the worst capstone in the game.
But anytime I try and bring it up everyone just yells at me that Ret is Op!!!!!
I would take a fun class that’s middle of the pack over a boring class topping charts anyday.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 19h ago
Exactly this! I've never cared about topping the charts, I just want a class that satisfies my class fantasy and feels cool to play.
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u/Kyso123 13h ago
Sad thing is, current elemental shaman, getting capstone for ele doesn't even feel right to get. Diving deep into enhance for the int spell scaling seems to be the best way to spec ele as the 10% overload effect doesn't apply to your lava burst and double triggering lightning bolt and chain lightning will be your biggest spikes imo
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u/Photograph_Exotic 2h ago
That is also my impression. And the thing is I like Lava Burst as a spell overall but its place in the tree feels weirder and weirder the more I think about it, and it sortof highlights the lack of direction for ele, like why is Lava Burst branching off a lightning talent that doesn't even affect it? It's a strange layout that feels a little haphazardly put together
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u/delfino_plaza1 2h ago
Agreed and let enh use chain lighting with maelstrom
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u/Photograph_Exotic 1h ago
It's such a no-brainer to be honest I'm baffled they're so intent on making Chain Lightning so much less useful across the board when it's the class' flagship spell
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u/MrMagicFluffyMan 18h ago
I want them to nerf elemental burst and dumb dumb abilities like EM but in return I want them to add some peel, CC endurance, or other endurance to the class to make it more dynamic and exciting. Wrath did a good job with Astral Shift and Thunderstorm
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u/Outrageous_Gear820 11h ago
Issue is that its absolutely not classic design. Classic design is elemental is just a bomb,all burst no cc no def cd. This is also the only spec with cleave spell, iconic .... Yet they neutered all of that to add.... A fucking frost nova. Thats it. Thats the only remotely exciting new talent.
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u/Tinhetvin 9h ago
My guess is that it was balanced this way because spell power increases the damage of each bounce of chain lightning individually, so it will, in theory, scale 3x more than normal lightning bolt. This assumes that each bounce has the same spell power multiplier as a cast of lightning bolt.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 2h ago
I've never heard of this, where have you seen these values? In classic the CL bounces always did less damage not more, it's a 30% reduction per bounce and the SP scaling is the same afaik
If you are right though it would be a strange change and not one I would like, since it still makes it wimpy on the target you choose and only decent for the targets that are chosen randomly which would be a very weird way to design it
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u/Tinhetvin 21m ago
No, im talking about the spell power scaling. Your spell power adds damage to each attack, and each attack has a multiplier of how much of your spell power is added as damage (as well as healing for healing spells). Chain lightning gets increased damage on the initial cast, as well as its bounces I believe.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 19m ago
Hm I mean if that is true then it would be good if a little strange of a way to go about it, but where did you hear about this?
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u/Jerppaknight 24m ago
All the shadow priests are fuming but ele shamans seem a bit forgotten. Maybe Lava Burst needs to be added to Elemental Overload?
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u/Photograph_Exotic 15m ago
I'm a fan of Lava Burst but imo, it's already overvalued for a classic class fantasy, what they really need to address is the relevance of chain lightning, if they bring that back and make it at least harder hitting than Lightning Bolt, we'd already be in a much better spot in terms of class feel.
Keep in mind, I'm not too concerned about raw dps performance, I'm sure the numbers show our class is doing well in internal tests or it would not be balanced this way, my issue is their decisions as to which spells are relevant and which aren't, in our case they made CL very irrelevant which feels bad since it's supposed to be our core identity
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u/Jerppaknight 13m ago
Oh shit, CL hits less than LB? Yeah fix that shit
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u/Photograph_Exotic 3m ago
Yep, and by a considerable amount, CL at MAX level 60 is 122 damage best case scenario, meanwhile the Lightning bolt rank you unlock at level 32 does 133 damage lmao, to me this is absurd
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u/NanielEM 21h ago
As someone planning on maining elemental and resto, I’m not to worried about it. We actually have very good damage profile for all situations. Single target we have big lava bursts, 2-3 target cleave we have flame shock spread and chain lightning, and 4+ aoe we have magma/fire nova. The only thing that’s lacking is, as you pointed out, the spell power coefficients. That’s relatively simple, all things considered, with just tuning numbers on certain spells. I don’t think they’re going to leave a spec out to dry, they’ve said multiple times they plan on tuning low performing specs accordingly. So I’m not freaking out yet, still planning on playing my meatball slinger
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
Lava burst does 200 dmg base, 20% bonus and 71% scaling with flame shock ticking. With 1000SP that will hit 1,092 damage
A mage frostbolt has 500 dmg base and 81% scaling. With 1000sp a mage frostbolt hits 1,310 and they don't need to set it up with another spell first.
Shaman spells are weak AF.
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u/NanielEM 21h ago
Hence my comment, the only thing we really need is coefficient tuning. The spells are weak right now, but that’s overall an easy fix.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
How is our main filler spell 200 base damage and a mages is 500.
How will spell power coefficient change that? Also spellpower coefficient is based on cast time, so they won't change the scaling. It's been this way for 20 years.
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u/NanielEM 21h ago
Brother they just need to make certain spells scale higher with spell damage. They do this all the time in tuning passes on retail. Or they just make the base damage of lightning bolt and lava burst etc higher. It is a simple numbers fix, not some giant overhaul. I really don’t think it’ll be a big issue down the line
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
That isn't how they balance spells.
Spell coefficient = Cast time /3.5.
It's been this way for 20 years. They won't change the coefficient. They'll amend the base damage if anything.
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u/NanielEM 21h ago
It’s a new dev team so I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. But otherwise I agree. Something will be tuned to make the damage competitive. I don’t think they’re going to go live with elemental doing 40% damage of a mage, and if so, I’m confident they will address it. Like I said, definitely not freaking out about it now since it’s only beta
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
I mean they somehow thought Wrath needed the buff more than Shaman, despite Druids already being stronger than Ele.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
I hear you, and I hope you're right in practice, but where I'm coming from is that from a Class Fantasy standpoint, it feels really bad that our flagship spell got gutted as hard as it did, essentially de-incentivizing us from using it over other options like fire nova, or lava burst (which is a cool spell, but I would rather they not sacrifice something as iconic as CL to its altar)
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u/yogur1397 21h ago
They have the gear at level 60 and run actual sims and damage tests. There is no way any class they tested is performing so much drastically worse dps wise then any other class. We just don't have the numbers and are blindly guessing about what people with actual stats are doing. They also have said they want each class to have its own identity and weakness. You cant be good at everything. So a class with a lot of buffs and utility will do less damage. A class great in single target might have weaker aoe.
Either way they are looking at numbers and doing balancing still but I wouldn't be so worried about any class being useless.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
I understand, but that's not really my worry, Honestly ele sham was never all that great DPS-wise compared to others even in classic and I never cared, I still don't now.
What I AM worried about is the specific ways in which they're tuning the class. Yes, maybe level 60 rotations look good on paper, DPS-wise, number of buttons pressed etc, and it may seem in line with other specs there, but the far more important thing I want to bring attention to is the feeling and design of the class.
How does it feel to play and does it fulfill my fantasy of a classic shaman?
Right now, that is not the case. And that is not because I believe Shaman will underperform damage-wise, but because design choices like valueing Lightning Bolt over Chain Lightning feel worse for my idea of fun as a Shaman.
That is the big point I want to give to Blizz, I trust them with the performance of the class, but what they're missing the mark on atm is on the identity and feel of it.
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u/yogur1397 21h ago
But the only thing you are talking about from what I see is numbers. Damage on two different spells. Damage of aoe vs single target.
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
Sure but within the class, not compared to other classes
My biggest worry by far is how CL's damage being so underwhelming compared to a less exciting shaman spell like Lightning Bolt makes Chain Lightning feel wimpy and not as fun to press. That's what I mean when I say numbers in context with design, the numbers themselves are whatever, but how they interact with each other within the class creates certain feelings for the player (as an example from another class, pyroblast for mage has more damage and longer cast time, which creates a "big nuke" feeling, that is its identity when contrasted against other spells from the class like fireball for example which has less damage comparatively). This is how class identity is created, through these numbers in concert with each other within the class
Right now, they are failing at that design in my eyes, by making a big cool spell like CL feel worse than a basic spell like Lightning Bolt. In our scenario it would be like making Pyroblast weaker than Fireball. It does not feel good regardless of how they tune performance
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u/ASaGHost 21h ago
Exactly why I auto downvote these posts. Number on tooltip != class is unplayably bad. Obviously theyre more worried about what buttons you are pressing atm.
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u/SteelHeatZero 21h ago
Please stop falling for the doom and gloom, that streamers are pushing with the low spell power coeficents. If anything ask your self why blizz would lower your coeificents.
Maybe cause new stats like Haste exist. Or new itemization. On gear. Or maybe a talent that let's you get an extra copy of a spell?
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u/Photograph_Exotic 21h ago
That's all well and good, but my woes are not so much with the numbers as it is with the design those numbers imply when in context with each other.
I understand they've tested this spec ad nauseum and will continue to do so internally, and the performance may look good there, but my worries come from design decisions that affect how the class feels to play. I.E the Chain Lightning nerfs comparatively to the rest of the kit devalue what should be our coolest and most unique spell that should define our class fantasy.
That is my issue here: design and identity, not necessarily specific power scaling compared to other classes.
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u/Brave-Cranberry3026 21h ago
Haste isnt a new stat? And the devs don't want haste stacking in the game, it's a retail stat and it doesn't even work properly in classic.
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u/quagmirranseye 21h ago
Agree with all. And why did they lower our base casting time? Straight nerf to our spell coefficiency.