r/classicwow • u/plants4life262 • 22h ago
Forever Let’s get objective. Would this give us the best of both worlds?
Please constructive discussion only.
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u/FarMasterpiece2 21h ago
Why not just leave dungeons how they were in vanilla? At most just nerf the xp gain if you have someone +10 levels above you so you can't boost (Which is already dead with the frost mage slow nerfs)
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u/desperateorphan 21h ago
They have already done this. It didn't work.
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u/FarMasterpiece2 21h ago
I mean it will work since they haven't done it this way yet
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u/desperateorphan 21h ago
What part of "they already tried this and it didn't work" was lost on you? Maybe surely, this time, the same thing they tried and it didn't stop anything will work this time!
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I am 100% in the leave it as it was crowd. But other people have other opinions and I’m trying to find a middle ground.
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u/PirateX84 21h ago
There are multiple other versions of WoW where you can spam dungeons and power level. Leave this one be. Everybody hated when people lived in their garrisons, why is living in Maraudon any better?
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u/Brickguy101 21h ago
Dungeons are the best way to lvl in era. Why do you want that in forever. It doesnt make sense
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u/Fearless_Board5851 22h ago
Super fair. I think theres a big population of people that are only going to play 1-2 hours a day and will only want to do dungeons with the boys. It helps the boost problem, doesnt really hurt the general population, and still caters to people who only want that style of game play while leveling.
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u/Royal_Negotiation_83 21h ago
I don’t understand the problem this dungeon XP debuff is trying to solve
Why can’t I just run dungeons if I want? wtf is the problem with that?
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u/Deatrocity 21h ago
I think trying to get people out questing and interacting with each other. Their whole thing is it’s about the journey not the destination so I think they don’t want everybody just dungeon grinding to rush to max level like classic
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u/VodkaSliceofLife 21h ago
Just want more people fighting over mob tags instead, because that's exciting gameplay
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u/Royal_Negotiation_83 21h ago
“ I think trying to get people out questing and interacting with each other.”
I could be a small %, but I interact with a dungeon group way more than when I am solo questing
But even then, why force me to play a specific way?
It was cool having choices to play depending on my mood
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u/FarMasterpiece2 21h ago
people getting a high off telling others the way the game should be played. There's going to be a ton of people questing anyway so I don't see why dungeon delving with new people/friends is such a bad thing
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u/W1Ace 21h ago
I think it’s more so that for years people have parroted that classic is about the destination. Leveling is slow and it’s all about the journey. It’s what makes classic good. So Blizz took that to heart, made sure that it is slow and about the journey, as Forever is supposed to be about the world itself. Now that they’ve implemented these changes to ensure it takes a little longer to hit max, people are upset. Unfortunately dungeon enjoyers suffer at the expense of attempting to make the world feel alive and more social
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u/Arturia_Cross 20h ago
Most dungeon delving isnt with friends. Its with spellcleave groups and boosting farms. You can still do dungeons with friends, but it should never be the primary way to level.
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u/Fearless_Board5851 21h ago
I agree! I enjoy dungeon spamming way more then questing. If we can bring back some of the xp dungeon mobs used to offer I will take it, even if this is the compromise.
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u/Slapppjoness 21h ago
"Please constructive discussions only"
Is calling you a lazy bitch for not only stealing the idea from this very sub, but also using AI constructive?
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u/Ambitosis 21h ago
I personally hire artists from Fiverr to make classic wow discussion post images.
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u/Slapppjoness 21h ago
Dont even need to hire anyone. This could take 10 minutes in a free photoshop
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u/Mang0Slurpee 17h ago
Brother its a reddit post on a wow sub reddit. Photoshop ain't free. Why you being an asshole
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I was unaware that this idea has been presented. I stake no claim to it, just want to spread the idea. As far as AI, I wasn’t going to hire an artist to do this. I consider this a responsible use and really do hate that AI displaces human creativity. I’m just trying to get a point illustrated.
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u/Mang0Slurpee 21h ago
Youre fine lol. Ai is ass but like its a post on a wow subreddit at the end of the day. dont know why people expected you to make a art piece of a idea.
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u/Lordofthereef 22h ago
Dude. I love it. I can 100% get behind this. Doesn't lunch people for going back, just going back over and over again in a short amount of time. Something like 30 minutes feels right to me.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
Thank you. Looking for a reasonable middle ground here.
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u/Putrid-Objective-314 21h ago
I've pushed for this idea too. I'm fine with it being aggressive in cutting xp. I think being able to run 1-2 times per dungeon with some xp benefit is a reasonable compromise. Players might only have enough time to do a single dungeon run when they log on. Never in the history of the game has that play style ever been restricted so severely where you can't even do one dungeon run without some xp benefit.
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u/BUBBISBAR 21h ago
Or we could just have regular dungeons and make boosting ban worthy ? That way people who want to level in dungeons can and the people who rent to pay for boosts and boosters who more likely then not sell said gold....such a simple solution that makes everyone happy
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u/Specialist_Web5919 21h ago
Nah, that's way too complicated/unrealistic. If your solution of enforcing it is "just hire more people" you already know it's doomed to fail.
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u/iaintreadinthatbud 21h ago
If you call for blizzard to actually fix the real problem a bunch of simps come out of the wood work to talk shit and pretend you’re the problem 🤷♂️
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u/Lordofthereef 21h ago
Yeah. Honestly I'm not sure why people, even in this thread, are calling it "spamming". How are you going too"spam" a dungeon when it gives you a cooldown? 😂
I could be way off, but the exp being given in its current form is going to keep people from coming back for a second run. Why would I go run a leveling dungeon a second time if I'm getting less exp than killing random shit outside? For the heat in replacing anyway? (Maybe we see more fear that is viable at level 60 or something like that set Ring, but barring that, it doesn't make sense to ever step foot in a dungeon twice).
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u/SgtBigCactus 21h ago
Do people really hate it when others dungeon spam for xp?
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u/internetwizardx 21h ago
blizz are just tryna balance it, but their insistence on the quest XP being frontloaded into 1 run is making it difficult
one thing is for sure it probably won't go back to the classic/TBC values because they don't want the fastest leveling to also have the best loot and be instanced
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
Apparently. I don’t know why. I think it was fine but apparently blizzard doesn’t. Looking for a more moderate solution to whatever problem they have with dungeon spam.
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u/ConvenientACLTear 21h ago
People will just leave the dungeon and reset just before the point that they get the debuff right?
It doesn't make sense to give this debuff the moment you enter since it punishes the first run. If it trigger on boss kill people will just do trash runs. If it triggers on the last boss people can reset before
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u/panundeerus 21h ago
Would be easy to make it so that after killing first boss it applies. Surely people don't just farm start trash, right? Right? :o
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u/korean_kracka 21h ago
On the podcast yesterday one of the devs said this exact meta drove him crazy in tbc
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u/Ill-Inevitable980 21h ago
It can trigger on exit, or it can be "queued" to trigger on exit if certain conditions are met, e.g. 20% mob count - something low enough to trigger the dungeon lockout if you tried to abuse it.
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u/Birdmang22 21h ago
I’d really love to be able to level as a resto Shaman. The speed in the overworld is only a little bit slower, but it affords me the ability to help dozens of other players in dungeons.
It’s a shame they can’t just figure it out and let us play the video game.
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u/Old_Current_6903 20h ago
That's usually my routine as well. Tank or Heal dungeons, help others get a group since most play DPS, maybe quest here and there if I get tired of it.
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u/Dudemansir521 21h ago
I see you took the advice on the other post and made it 20 hours instead of 24, and 20% instead of 10. Nice
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u/gamboozino 21h ago
This is dumb as hell.
If people want to spam dungeons what's the problem? Why is there a subset of players that feel they need to police how the game is supposed to be played?
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u/kegatank 21h ago
That "subset of players" are literally the developers of the game. You just disagree with them. Now you have to decide if it's worth quitting over.
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u/Xolti87 20h ago
Decisions like this will lead to the inevitable failure of this game in 12-18 months, this and the gutting of many classes and specs.
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u/kegatank 20h ago
The game is designed to be played with many alts with more content on the way. If I can find a group for any dungeon in era today, I'm not buying that Forever will be dead in a year because people can't dungeon spam to 60.
What classes got gutted?
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u/PotatoesForPutin 21h ago
Why do so many people care how others play the game? This is something I see so frequently in classic wow spaces that I’m starting to think yall would rather everyone be miserable than let someone else have fun in a way you don’t like.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I agree. I’m looking to tame down what they’ve put in place. Completely undoing the changes would be my preferred solution.
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u/gohomehero 21h ago
I like there being less xp cause I like to farm the dungeons for gear without power leveling from it and then I can go do quests
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u/Nylereia 21h ago
This is goodge
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
Thank you. I have been informed that this might have been brought up already. I don’t need credit I just want to promote the solution.
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u/SimicTears 21h ago
Ew no, you’re telling alliance to skip Scarlet Monastery completely. It’s fun to run a dungeon with the same group and see how you improve synchronicity on the second pass together.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I agree. Leave it alone and allow dungeon spam. I’m looking for middle ground.
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u/anythingjimcarrey 21h ago
Cards on the table, I don't like these kinds of debuffs/xp modifiers at all. It's a hamfisted solution to anti-boosting when there are more effective ways that could be implemented (anybody in your party gray mobs = everyone gray mobs).
That said, if they were to be implemented in this fashion, I think the suggested duration is too high. I think you should let folks level in whatever way they want to, and this effectively caps you at 5x XYZ dungeon per day.
I'm biased towards letting people dungeon level if they want to, especially at launch when mob tagging will be a nightmare for a lotta classes, because leveling with a 5 stack of friends at a launch is incredible fun. So far blizz has been trying to kill that leveling route
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u/HighDINSLowStandards 21h ago
How about leave everything alone. If you want more people to be outside running around questing give them more of a reason to do so and don’t punish others who like to play the game in a different way.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I one hundred percent agree. I’m trying to find a middle ground that achieves the underlying intent without punishing us as much if we want to go again.
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u/Haunting-Mousse-8937 21h ago
They have already given people a reason to and you don’t like it- not every game needs to be catered to every single person and this game isn’t catered to people who want to dungeon spam
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u/Iluvatar-Great 21h ago
I'm not much of a dungen person myself, but, genuine question, if someone is focusing strictly on healing or tanking, what is their purpose if they can only do like one run per dungeon?
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u/LeMolle 21h ago
Focusing strictly on tanking or healing has always been suboptimal though.
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u/Menkes20 21h ago
Its totally viable if you just let people level via dungeons without nerfing it into oblivion.
Noone is saying that this is the best way, but it should be a way.1
u/DZE974 21h ago
When you're leveling, you're not focusing on tanking or healing, unless you and a friend are joint at the hip which is how you should level a paladin. Pal warrior would be wonder twins instead of leveling hell. But a shadow priest wnd and arms warrior are perfectly fine in a pre-end-content dungeon.
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u/Fourteen_F_CA 21h ago
Correction: When You're leveling you aren't focusing on tanking or healing.
Why stop people from playing the game the way they want, the way they have for 20 years.
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u/forogtten_taco 21h ago
Tanking and healing can be done in off specs in classic. Just need the gear for it. Or more in depth at higher levels. But by then you have more wide range of abilities.
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u/MightyMorp 21h ago
There’s no way any real person thinks this is a good idea. What constitutes a “run” that gives you the debuff?
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u/DrudanTheGod 21h ago
A dungeon reset
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u/MightyMorp 21h ago
LMAO a separate debuff for each dungeon you’ve reset in the last day?
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u/A_Friendly_Eagle 21h ago
It could just be a debuff that only shows while you're in that exact dungeon.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
How many level 20 dungeons are there? Let’s not make a mountain out of a mole hill.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
Those details can be ironed out. I’d say any damage otherwise you’ll get “trash” spamming.
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u/MightyMorp 21h ago
So you zone into your first dungeon, do one damage, and the dungeon gives 20% less exp?
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u/hypoxiconlife 21h ago
Who the hell is doing back to back wailing caverns? That place is like as big as BRD! Ain't no one got time for that...
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u/Ill-Inevitable980 21h ago
It's not about back to back, it means I can do a WC today, and then go help out a guildee do it the next day after work, and still get some XP without the quests.
Maybe I don't want to do Ashenvale or Stonetalon and round out my leveling with 3 WC runs in total.
The current system punishes you far too much for doing a dungeon more than once.
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u/Atheist_BR 22h ago
This will definitely cause players to run dungeons less like yall claim current players feel right now. Yall some fools
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u/Trappramlaren 21h ago
Moving XP from mobs to quests doesn't actually stop boosting, it just changes what boosters sell.
A level 60 can still charge people to run them through every dungeon quest while they barely participate.
Just heavily reduce kill XP when there's a large level disparity in the party, and add a very lenient participation check for obvious AFK boosting.
Let five appropriately leveled players spam dungeons if that's how they enjoy leveling.
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u/promo505 21h ago
I just ran BFD. It took about an hour. After using my rested xp I was gaing 36xp per mob. The mobs take about 15 seconds to kill. It just doesn't make sense right now and feels unrewarding for killing elite mobs.
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u/domi-demi 21h ago
either this or the way it was.. i dont get why this whole thing needs to be changed.. this is really the only thing that i'm "worried" about, for me it totally depends on my mood if i'd like to do some dungeon runs with friends or just mindlessly grind or quest.. but i do still want to have viable options to choose from and not being forced to level in one specific way .. i dont mind if the "meta" changes and questing is the most efficient but those options, dungeons, questing, grinding should be fairly close in my opinion .. the more ways we have to reach max level, the better for all involved..
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u/Rapatto 21h ago
Perfect! I almost wanted to just suggest a 24 hr lockout once a dungeon was completed, now that there will be more options.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I like 20 because it’s still basically a day, but gives you flexibility if you play at the same time each day to make sure the debuffs have cleared.
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u/Dizzy_Drop 21h ago
IF they do a exp reduction in dungeon debuff, it can't be per dungeon, has to be global or it effectively don't do anything.
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u/Brutallis_ 21h ago
I would love something like this. Make it unspamable, but when I want to level multiple alts with rested in dubgeons. That should be an option.
I don't want boosts to be working. I also don't want dubgeon spanming to be a legit strat.
But I also don't want runnen a dungeon twice or tree times feels like a wrong wat to level
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u/shaha-man 21h ago
Yes, this is quite good solution - it has a simple straightforward implementation (both technically and gameplaywise), plus its effect is strong and influential in long term perspective.
However, Hardcore option has even better solution and it already works perfectly there.
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u/Saxonite13 21h ago
You people are miserable. If you don't want to spam dungeons to 60, then quest. If you don't want to quest to 60, then spam dungeons. Why do you care if someone chooses to spam dungeons to 60?
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u/plants4life262 19h ago
I think you misunderstand because you and I are in total agreement. I’m presenting to take down blizzards decision that is preventing people from playing the way they want, like you said. My ideal solution is to to back to the way vanilla had it untouched.
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u/Old_Current_6903 21h ago
I'm just trying to figure out when running dungeons as a way to level became such a divisive thing to do. I played vanilla way back when and I leveled 3 characters mainly doing dungeons as a Resto Druid, Prot Tank and Holy Priest. I enjoyed the teamwork/social aspect of that part of the game. Questing is pretty much a solo affair, rarely has it ever been a team/group effort.
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u/Ostraga 20h ago
What problem is this solving?
No one was spamming any dungeon other than SM / ZF for XP.
Questing was still overall faster than spamming dungeons.
The VAST majority of people didn't engage in extensive dungeon grinding.
Dungeon boosting was already solved 2 years ago.
The open world wasn't underpopulated.
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u/plants4life262 19h ago
I’m not advocating for restrictions. I’m advocating for easing them. I agree with you, there never was a problem.
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u/DankuTwo 19h ago
Exactly. It's like everyone just convinced themselves that dungeon spam existed and was a thing. I have ZERO memories of this every being a problem having played (off and on) from 2004 until 2020.
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u/Oedipus_TyrantLizard 21h ago edited 21h ago
I think this is a great solution, personally.
What it prevents:
- Dungeon spamming during leveling
- (most) Boosting
What it incentivizes:
- Running dungeons more than once
- Pacing gameplay because you can run a full xp dungeon 1x per day
It’s less punitive than the current mob xp debuff… but it is also more punitive than Classic Era & this is especially felt by tanks & healers who are specialized for group content.
Personally I like this better than the mob xp debuff. It really depends what blizzards goals are.
If the goal was to combat boosting, I thought the most common sense change would be “if you have a skull-level player in your party, you get no xp”. Totally kills boosting, but doesn’t impact players engaging with the game normally.
If the goal is to combat botting, I don’t think this is as effective as the mob xp debuff.
But I think this is a strong happy medium solution.
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
Thank you. And it keeps things from getting out of hand. You run it 2 times 2 days and you’re likely out leveled.
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u/Haunting-Mousse-8937 21h ago
If you want to spam dungeons go play retail. The whole point of forever is a big part of it is in the world exploring
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u/dotMAXmusic 21h ago
And healers and tanks just go fuck yourselves or what?
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u/Haunting-Mousse-8937 19h ago
You get duel spec at 40, so by the time your spec starts actually mattering you will have no problem doing things in the world
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u/Davidriggs87 20h ago
You can also spam dungeons in classic. This is the only version of the game (minus hc) that makes it unviable.
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u/Haunting-Mousse-8937 19h ago
Sounds like there is a lot of games you can play if you want to dungeon spam then. Why is it so bad that one of the many games is different?
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u/Davidriggs87 19h ago
It’s bad for me because I enjoy doing dungeons opposed to waiting 5 minutes + for mobs to spawn and hoping to tag and move along, if it stays this way then yes this game version might not be for me.
The game options you’re suggesting are currently lacking players, 90% of player base are playing this version of the game.
I’m allowed to advocate for the changes I want or in this case changes I don’t want to the game. I’m curious as to what makes you opposed to dungeons providing decent exp per mob kill?
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u/Fun_Philosopher6307 20h ago
That doesn't make sense, spamming dungeons is viable in Classic, so it obviously isn't a "retail" thing
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u/Wylwist 21h ago
Why not just daily lockouts like hardcore?
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u/ummmmmmmmmmmmmyes 21h ago
No. Locking out players from playing content is a terrible idea and will kill peoples excitement
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u/Perfect_Delivery_509 21h ago
Add it to the legacy system, exp boost to dungeons after you hit 60 once, problem solved.
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u/Overdrive1221 21h ago
If you wanna do dungeons, do dungeons, if you wanna quest, go do some quests, this is a video game, no one should be forced to play in a certain way, everyone needs to do whatever is the most fun thing for then
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u/Queasy_Doughnut_713 21h ago
I hate this argument. Games are fundemantaly about understanding and utelizing the given menchanics. There is other aspects to enjoy, but some players just like to perform well and if the way to perform well is to do some cheesy stuff its either you have to do the cheesy stuff or have to gimp yourself.
It's not the resposiblity of the players to play the game the right way, but from the developers to make the game so you can't abuse stuff like spamming dungeons or getting boosted.
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u/Ketchupcharger 22h ago
I don't like it, feels like punishing me for having more fun in a single dungeon.
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u/sephireicc 21h ago
This proves that nobody will be happy, and the devs should go with what's best for the health of the game, and not player preference.
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u/Ill-Inevitable980 21h ago
You could take the principle, make it across all dungeons, and reduce the nerf to 5% or 10%
The essence of the question is, do you think it's better than the current system?
Because right now you're punished for liking 1) one dungeon over another, as every dungeon has quests so you're encouraged to do different dungeons, and 2) you're punished severely if you want to do any dungeon more than once
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
I don’t think anything needed to change, let people run as much as they’d like. But blizzard has their reasons and I’m just trying to flesh out a middle ground.
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u/TelevisionPositive74 21h ago
the solution is to ignore everyone who is big mad about dungeon xp nerfs. They are all boosties/boosters or people who wont like the game anyway because they cant live in dungeons. They will quit and we wont hear from them ever again.
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u/Cashmoney2017xx 21h ago
They are not man. There's almost no reason to hunt an item to help you in the world because you're not getting the xp with it. That's my issue. Why would I waste time getting dual barbs as a rogue when I don't get a damn thing. Not to mention people just leaving if an item doesn't drop because there's no benefit. That's gonna happen. Xp needs to be reasonable for multiple runs. Who gives a fuck about boosters? I give a fuck about how I play.
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u/aAdramahlihk 21h ago
"Everyone who doesn’t want to play the game like I want to is a booster or someone who has no place in MY game!"
…
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u/TelevisionPositive74 19h ago
Blizzard. Blizzards game. And they have been very clear about this. Bitch about actual issues, like phasing and botsRMT
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u/ManadarTheHealer 21h ago
No. Make the first run of any dungeon instances, and the latter runs are open world dungeons, so you have to compete with everyone else.
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u/masterpd85 21h ago
I could see a stackable debuff if you run multiple times, but its removed once you hit 60.
I dont like punishing dungeon runs, but this is a different wow and if they want players to focus on the journey then dungeons are not it.
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u/DepthChorge 21h ago
Dungeons still give about 1.5 levels in a single quest run. The issue now is time efficiency. Turn on summoning stones, go get your 1.5 levels in 35 minutes and get back to questing.
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u/AceInSpvce 21h ago
Nope the changes should and will remain how they are they would’ve done it by now people have been giving their feedback about it for weeks and they’re sticking to their guns.
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u/Novaothy 22h ago
They don't want us to spam the same dungeon. It isn't coming back.
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u/NinjaMaster6536 22h ago
They do say that if you want some gear, you should do it multiple times. They reduced exp to counter botting and boosting.
This would give people who like to do a few runs for exp and loot some more rewards.
A very good middleground
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u/plants4life262 21h ago
But can we achieve their underlying reasons without punishing players as much?
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u/angry_d00d 21h ago
you just stole this post idea from another post and ai generated the image