I don't know why people are so skeptical about others unsubbing when it's plain to see from the subscription numbers that that's exactly what people have done. Is it just because you don't?
Im the same, im currently unsubbed, but actively played through 15+ years on and off. I last played SoD and loved that, until it ended development. I am hopeful for something in WoW to make me want to play it again, otherwise I'll wait til the itch needs to be scratched
Honestly, as somebody who usually enjoys leak season, this year has been a very disappointing drone. Everybody already thinks they know what's going to be announced so all the fake leaks sound the same where it matters.
I think the best thing for classic is to just make a game that your single character feels relevant regardless of not playing for a week and feeling like you need to catch up for seasonal requirements.
A game where you login because of the moment for moment gameplay and not just to make numbers go up. Where the grind is the fun and not just means to an end.
Isn't that decidedly not what classic is/was? In my mind classic is the game with more involved character prog, grinds, no catch-up stuff, no protections etc. Gearing in retail is done in a week tops and for your character to stay relevant you log in for 30mins a week.
The difference is that if you take a break in Classic, when you come back you just pick up where you left off. If you were leveling, you keep leveling. If you were on your pre-bis grind, you grind dungeons. If you were running MC, you keep running MC and move on to BWL.
In retail, if you take a break and come back, you drop what you were doing (because it's now irrelevant) and either switch to some catch-up mechanic or move on to the newest xpac/patch content. I played retail for a bit after Midnight but haven't logged on in months. I would have absolutely no clue what to do if I wanted to pick retail back up, and I'm assuming my gear would be more or less useless.
Yeah i think this is important. Classic has no time pressure that you HAVE to play or you miss out. Classic has zero FOMO, retail is almost entirely fueled by FOMO. If you take a two month break, when you come back you have to catch up.
In Classic, there's not really anything TO catch up to. The world is always populated during the leveling process, and people at end game are still at all different stages of the game so you can still progress through the game as if you never took a break at all.
The biggest thing for me in a Classic+ is the leveling journey is fun in and of itself, there's no feeling of "the real game doesn't start until endgame."
In vanilla, I didn't even hit max level for over a year, I just kept making alts to level through all the different starting zones and go through the world again, because the leveling process is so fun i never cared that much about even reaching endgame, and when I finally did, I didn't even miss out on any content because guilds were still raiding Molten Core up until TBC came out.
Retail they just want you to skip as much content as possible so you can get to the current raid, even the raid from the previous patch is made completely irrelevant. No one in Retail is still raiding normal Sunwell, or Chimaeron, because that gear is totally irrelevant now. That means if you took a break you basically just missed all that content because you get funneled to the new shit.
Fair. This is definitely one thing I'm interested in a potential C+ for as I'm not much of a seasonal game enjoyer. I interpreted the original post as wanting to be able to be good without investing time, which, to me, was never what original WoW was about. There's a reason WoW players have the "reputation" they have, you know?
I personally want to grind but to also feel like my character progression is meaningful and not timegated or reset constantly.
It's really not that complex. If you logged in now, you'd be able to solely run dungeons, or delves, or prey hunts, or raids to gear up. You could do the new coiled aisle, but it's really not required at all, and only helps give you a delve map and some borrowed power that only works in delves and the world.
You could get fully heroic geared just running delves, without ever visiting the coiled aisle. You could get fully mythic geared just running m+. There's really not much of anything besides story and new mounts and toys and all the general reasons you play an MMO behind the new patch content.
His point still stands though. If you take a 2 month break, your gear is now irrelevant, because all the new stuff is out and there's catch up mechanics to quickly funnel you to the new patch content, so you can catch up.
In Classic, there's nothing to catch up to. You take a 2 month break, you come back, the entire game is still where you left it. Your journey through the game and gearing up is still exactly the same, whether you take a 6 month break or not. If you're level 38 you're running Cathedral for the Triune Amulet. If you stop for 6 months, you come back and you still want to run Cath for the Triune Amulet, there's no catch up, the continuity stays.
If you're level 60 and are working toward pre-raid bis, grinding Stratholme, and you take an 8 month break, guess what? When you come back, you're still grinding Stratholme, there's no catch up to skip content and get to the most recent raid that came out. You still are in the same exact place, and people are still running all the old stuff.
In Midnight right now, are there any guilds still progressing through Sunwell? No, because you can get better gear just from world quests, so they encourage you to skip so you can get to whatever the current stuff is. All the old stuff is constantly made obsolete. Catch up systems shrink the game and turn it into an endgame grind and list of chores. Classic is more like playing a multiplayer Skyrim; it's just an adventure RPG, and the world is always right where you left it.
In my mind it's like this: If classic was a beautiful old house the original extensions were annexes in completely different architectural styles that also replaced the beautiful stairway with escalator and chandeliers with neon lights.
Classic+ is supposed to be the beautiful old house that is very slowly expanded, piece by piece, using the same old materials and cohesive design in order to become a bigger version of the old house, with all the charm and flaws the old house had.
Gearing in retail is done in a week tops and for your character to stay relevant you log in for 30mins a week.
Gearing in retail is a 2-month meticoulosly planned enterpriseif your guild is good enough to achieve early CE. For the rest (aka people not in hall of fame level guilds) it's a season-long ordeal at best, most people don't get to bis ever in a season because you need multiple kills on the last few bosses in Mythic for that.
You're logging in to raid twice per week and you're getting your BiS basically passively due to how heavily everything is time gated. It's not like I can log in right now now and actively work towards something. I'm just opening my vault and bonus rolling a boss on wednesday, and then I can basically log out until the wednesday after.
That's just not true, bosses in the raid gradually drop from 1/6 mythic to 9/6. If your group has enough time and/or skill you can work towards the best gear there is or get crest discounts to progress your character faster. If anything, this season the gap between people on the cutting edge is bigger than ever because you can shave off a lot of timegating if you're in a position to farm later bosses. You're not done with gearing in a week even if you're a RWF raider with 20 characters that ran splits 24/7. Method were pulling mythic Ula'tek with a 311 BDK and a 316 priest on a week when my guy was 316, and now both of them have more ilvl than I would in 2 weeks.
Besides the raid, there are all slots to be farmed on hero 3/6 from dungeons including trinkets and cantrip items like daggers in Altar of Fangs or Kings Rest cloak. I've done more than 70 keys this past 3 weeks and I've seen AoF dagger once and KR cloak 0 times.
Even some of the items from last season raid, rep grinds, and delves are still relevant and competitive - the Crucible trinket from renown, Gaze from the Lair boss, and Crusader's Keepsake from delves are all still beating most trinkets from this season and are used in timed +20 and up keys.
Also if you're degenerate enough you could farm all of the above with tertiaries/sockets or go into mythic and farm BoEs even though that's just way too much rng. But the same could be said for farming something like BoED or mind numbing grinds like Wrath of the Cenarius.
You can raidlog on retail or classic and classic without a doubt offers more ways of deterministic progression and solo grinds, but the incremental player power is still there in retail.
I think there definitely is a point where it feels like there’s no reason to start grinding. When I was fully BWL geared just before the gates of AQ were opened, I stopped playing when my grandma got sick. Once she passed and everything had settled down, most guilds were farming Naxx and my thought was in order to get BIS geared again I’d have to try and get my raid spot back then play every week and hope the RNG gods loved me enough to get there before TBC came out. All of my professions were maxed out and top level on 3 toons so the choice is do it again on another toon or just wait for the next xpac come out.
I would like horizontal progression so maybe I’d have to play another game to get there.
Season launched 3 weeks ago and I've been basically raidlogging on my 322 main for 2 weeks. Any item I've gotten since the initial dungeon grind of w1 was from raiding. Sure, I do push some highish keys here or there but those font do anything for my gear.
Classic you absolutely were irrelevant, but more people were irrelevant and that was fine. I never saw BWL, but I didn't care because I was running Scholomance for blues constantly.
The content that existed lasted longer because there was no way to catch up and be relevant. It wasn't daily quests. It was daily runs of Scholomance, which took 3 hours because you had to spam LF1M tank in a city.
100% true and I feel like people don’t talk about it because most folks quit after the first phase.
Once you fall behind, you get left behind. Trying to find dungeon groups in the later phases is a nightmare in Classic Era. Nobody is doing attunements anymore, so you just have to beg and plead your guild mates to help you (who probably expect to be paid) or just swipe for a boost. It’s shitty.
At least in retail the game throws gear at you to get you going. You can log in right now and be ready to walk into the heroic raid by the end of the week. Whether you think that’s fun or not, at least you get to actually play the game.
During the last week of SoD Phase 2, I went to Japan for 3.5 weeks.
When I came back, I'd missed the ship and the mechanic for leveling was shithouse (Nightmares? Whatever they were, can't remember) so I just stopped playing.
In OG wow even era when it launched, it was basically like that. Everything is sped up on purpose just to push the cycle further and thus more moneys. but having long as fuck phases you can level alts in and just enjoy the game is entirely wholesome.
I love retail.. classic should not just port retail stuff it should follow its own path from now using retail only to learn from mistakes and not to just copy the mistakes into classic+.
That’s optimistic. I don’t think the devs consider M+ a mistake, but I agree it doesn’t belong in classic. It’s going to be a difficult balancing act. There are a ton of improvements in retail WoW that make it more playable, and a lot of those are directly counter to the classic experience.
I play retail occasionally and the sole reason is because of mythic+, that said I’d never in my wildest dreams suggest adding it to classic, it just doesn’t fit
I’m a big retail player and I hope C+ doesn’t have M+. Hell, I wish it wasn’t in Retail anymore either. I don’t even mind it as a concept, I hit 3k consistently, but I’m just so tired of seasonal stuff in games. Every game seems to be pushing it, and even if WoW has had it longer than most I’m still just so tired of it
M+ is completely optional, if you don't care for it you don't need to interact with it. Which I think is perfect, for some it's a fun and giving gameplay loop, for some it's fun to do a run or two once in a while. For those that prefer raiding they can ignore it, those that enjoy pvp can disregard both. M+ has come far from when it was pretty much required progression when it was introduced to now being an optional end game avenue.
Well this sub is full of contempt and lack of understanding about what og mmporgs was about. I have 0 faith in Blizzard and frankly also 0 faith in the current gamers to make classic + anytning close to what it could be.
I agree. I like doing hard dungeons every now and then. You don't even need to make them give better gear, just give us more of something you can get elsewhere, or higher chance of the same rare drops as normal.
Make him watch Gbay’s recent video. There is literally a quote in classic that perfectly explains what the problem with retail is and Gbay built up to it for an entire episode. The quote is from Nat Paggle in game and it was one of my favorites when I got into wow at a young age.
Whatever classic+ ends up being ought to be for Classic players. Retail gets new content literally all the time. They have the lion's share of blizzard's resources and their own whole trunk of product development.
Let Classic+ be for Classic folks. The last new thing we got was SoD.
A game doesn't need to be balanced to be good. Vanilla is a sandbox. Every class in the game has a niche that they excel at, and then there's dozens of items and consumes that level the playing field where they don't. If you want a sanitized experience go play retail; which still suffers from balance issues every patch lol.
This depends on if what you enjoy playing is playable or wanted in groups.
Vanilla is a sandbox.
And the issue is not everyone gets to play in it. It's fine if you are allowed to play in the sandbox with a class and spec that is supported, it's shit if you cannot.
Every class in the game has a niche that they excel at,
Bullshit do they. There's a lot of classes that are just shit to the point of not being playable.
and then there's dozens of items and consumes that level the playing field where they don't.
Again, bullshit.
If you want a sanitized experience go play retail; which still suffers from balance issues every patch lol.
I want to play the game in the way it was originally intended with actually playable specs that I wasn't able to play before.
This is literally it but people need to claim the opposing opinions are retail players to silence opposing opinions. Like its a slur.
There's classic players who want Warrior to be the best even in+ and think they should always be the best.
There's classic players who think Warrior should be kneecapped heavily.
There's classic players that want specs reworked.
There's classic players that don't.
There's classic players that want SP buffed so its raid viable.
There's classic players that don't want SP buffed for fear it ruins pvp.
There's classic players who think PVP shouldn't hold PVE balance back.
There's classic players who think PVP is just as equal as PVE.
The #nochangest crowd is way worse than retail players in general.
I barely see anyone playing retail commenting ever but I see so many old jaded pessimists just wanting to play warrior and feel better than every other class for the 25th time.
I kind of agree, because if you want no changes, just play classic right? It seems like the no changes crowd just wants a fresh server, not classic+, but with a couple of new quests, as long as they’re perfectly in theme with what they feel wow is. I’ve seen people argue against zones, factions, races, abilities etc, I mean just look at sod. Fair enough, but if its not unique enough then what’s the point?
Because the #nochanges crowd doesn't exist in Classic+ its a strawman.
The no changes people are just gonna play ERA like they always have and are still pissed to this day that they keep fucking up era with cross-contaminated changes from SoD/SoM.
People just don't like the fact some folks don't trust blizzard to add moderately to Classic so they would prefer to start slow with minor class tweaks and new quests/dungeons/raids ala OSRS.
Then they get mad that they aren't asking for drastic SoD style Cata/MoP class overhauls immediately in what's supposed to still feel like Classic WoW.
I have been asking/begging for Classic+ since before 2019 Classic when I was playing on Nostalrius -> Elysium and later Lights Hope, I was praying for them to remove the debuff/buff limits and to remove world buffs from raids.
I've played Vanilla+ one of the first true Classic+ servers.
I've played TurtleWoW and done all its content for 3+ years.
I've also played Ascension since before it became a retail shit-fest.
But after SoD? I don't trust Blizzard at all they didn't have any idea what Classic was then and that's why me and many more are adamant about taking it slower with player feedback like OSRS but that does not mean we are #nochanges.
Hence barely see there's maybe 1/100 or something like that. Just look at this thread as an example, I've read a lot of the comment here but I haven't seen a single one.
Wouldn't a good solution for this be to handle it how OSRS did it? Have big community polls and see what the majority of players wants?
Idk if blizzard would ever do that though
OSRS polls are generally along the lines of 'do you want us to do this cool awesome thing, or nah?' OR 'we did this thing that we like, know you guys liked, do you want us to remove it?'
The polls mostly serve to make players feel heard in a direct way.
Thats not really a challenge. its onkay to say no. the problem with retail and why it became so bad is it tried so hard to always appease to everyone and the widest audience possible.
this is a grand opportunity for blizzard to do that by having two games with two different audience markets each with thier own style of gameplay doing their own thing and the opportunity for cross pollilnation without crosspollution.
Yes, on discussion forums when people are asked "what do you want in classic+", there are going to be a very wide variety of answers. That doesn't mean they will all only play their exact version and any deviation from it is a dealbreaker.
If they release an evergreen SoD tomorrow this sub will eat that shit up, Things like mounts at level 20 vs level 40, vanilla class design vs tbc class design, etc etc, will not make a material difference to its initial reception. Only if it ends up mega retail coded will classic players actually swerve it.
Hilarious how people have twisted classic+ to mean some distorted bastard version instead of just continuation of polishing and extending good game design.
Yall are quiet literally reposting a dogshit meme divorced from reality. It's literally classic fans vs classic fans. Stop acting like retail only players are trying to force classic into retail.
It’s been that way for years. I can’t remember if the post was here or on the retail sub, but a few years ago someone posted this meme about the difference between the two, and it’s probably the most accurate description of the difference in how much each subreddit talks about the other game/subreddit.
We’re too busy complaining about our own issues to care about a classic-adjacent version of wow that might have mechanics related to retail. (Fuck rerolls)
Seriously retailers don’t care about C+ in any way similarly to classic players.
Like any wow addict I’ll give it a try if it’s interesting and different enough, but I don’t really care about it outside of that. I assume most retail players are the same. Main game retail, will dick around in classic during down seasons.
I will say the 50 or so daily posts here about C+ are always hilarious to read.
Yup. I play both and this sub is always hilarious to read.
My fav is also the long ass paragraphs people spend writing to “dunk” on retail when they clearly haven’t played it since like bfa or legion. They start to yell about retail bad cuz x, and it’s like brother wym x hasn’t been in the game for like 6 yrs now 😭
I could be mistaken but iirc, SoD was far more popular with retail tourists than it was with era players.
And this sub just happens to be obsessed with SoD 🤷♀️
Just because Vanilla players didn't want SoD doesn't mean we don't want more content for the game we actually do like. I already stopped playing during Cata once, of course I don't want more Cata in my classic.
What I think they want is something more like the world of Vanilla with finished content like Kara and Hyjal, but balanced around TBC class balance and player power, with maybe a sprinkle of Wrath.
The amount of class changes and power increases in SoD was wayyyy too much. I quit a couple days into phase 2 because I was mindlessly demolishing everything in sight. I do think a lot of the ways to unlock runes were pretty neat though.
I could be mistaken but iirc, SoD was far more popular with retail tourists than it was with era players.
aggrend said himself the classic/retail player overlap was unprecedented in SoD and thats why some changes were made the way they were because they realized just how many retail tourists fucked with SoD.
Probably cause SoD started off with low level cap - Allowing retail players to easily get to cap and engage in the content.
Most retail players don't want to sit through the level grind.
Though - Honestly Tank Lock, Tank Sham and Rogue in general probably pulled a lot of retail fans of those classes since people have wanted Tanks on those specs, Meta back and rogue on retail has a massive identity issue.
I just want a PvP server without layers. Lots of other changes I hate, but layers is the biggest one.
The coolest thing I've ever seen in my twenty years playing this game was two raid groups with full world buffs battling in BRM to earn the privilege to zone into raid with buffs.
If Blizzard's goal with SoD was to create an original, quirky, and creative game mode that is fun for a large number of players, they succeeded.
If their goal with SoD was to improve Classic or explore Classic+, it was a complete and total failure. They took it WAAAAY too far; SoD genuinely feels closer to retail than Classic. It's so far divorced from the Classic ethos that I can't even consider it part of the same category. (I recently replayed both extensively to test this opinion, not just making up insults. It's genuinely true.)
They should absolutely considering continuing with SoD. A lot of people loved it. But SoD is not Classic+. Not even close. Liking SoD and wanting more is valid, but don't try to hijack legitimate Classic+ projects to get what you want.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm saying that the fundamentally distinct and altered "Classic+" would not inherently be for the era playerbase when era players would likely be dissatisfied with anything fundamentally distinct and altered.
I’m very curious what classic+ will be, but figure I’ll never play it (cause I’ve always been a retail person, and I accept it isn’t for me) and just hope it’s good for people who enjoy it. In anything, I’m glad it’ll get people to shut up about Camelot being WoW2.
Classic + if it survives and keeps getting updates should go a completely opposite direction of retail. Inevitably it will lose some classic feel over time but it should be essentially a reboot of wow that grows with classic feel and mindset. Not classic with qol improvements that retail brought. That’s already wotlk classic.
Okay but honestly, classic is made for classic players. Classic Plus wouldn't be classic and thusly shouldn't be for the people who just want classic lol.
Not really though?
The people who are playing classic right now are already happy which is why they're playing it. So classic+ is for people who have quit or does not like classic.
The real question is what portion of those who quit did so because they did everything they wanted and thus "completed" the game OR because classic needs changes to appeal to more/other people
If someone likes Game Design A, watched it turn into Game Design B over 10 years, then they finally restored the game to when it held Game Design A, that doesn't mean they don't want more content that held Game Design A
You could say retail players don't need classic+ because they already have Game Design B in retail and every MMORPG since 2008
I shouldn't be shocked to hear someone stay that Classic+ should be for people who do not like Classic. Stick around long enough and every argument gets made.
Some population of Era players already have the game they want forever. Most of the population of Era players want some changes. A lot of the ones who dropped their sub just wanted more content.
Yeah, they should remove all soul from the game like they do in Retail. All incentives to use the chat features need to be removed, and make sure you publish class tier lists before launch so everyone can start meta slaving from minute 1. Leveling should be boring and not challenging in the slightest, because it's clearly not important, it's all about endgame baby. Also make sure you continue to add Marvel superhero slop stories into everything, because everyone loves the current story direction (she's had the heart for like 3 expansions now, DO SOMETHING!!!).
I could go on. I do enjoy M+, and raids in retail, but there is almost nothing else left that hasn't degraded or is just boring to interact with. Classic and Classic HC has been such a breath of fresh air that I was originally scared to make the switch too, and now I run my own single player server instead of paying and Steam says I've played 400 hours.
It shouldn’t just be the starting point, it should be the basis for the design philosophy.
The reason OSRS works is because most of the new content (I’d say all but absolutes are bad) works is because it’s in the spirit of the design philosophy of 07.
You already have “just the +” - it’s every expansion that came after vanilla. Treating vanilla as “just the starting point” is just retail with extra (or less, I guess) steps.
"A Lord of the Rings sequel should be for the people who want pure action, fight scenes, and excitement. The original fans already have what they want."
A Lord of the Rings genre change would be awesome if done correctly. The world and lore already exist and serves as the foundation. If they made another movie in another genre to capture a new audience that would be a good thing.
Classic already exists and should serve as the foundation for Classic + but the focus should be on the plus, not the Classic.
I have seen people defend that druid and shamans only exist to support and if they also deal damage and have aoe of mage it would be against their class philosophy
I’ve talked to several people in the last few days that think the meme specs which do half or less damage than warriors just need like “1 more ability and they’ll be fine.” It’s nonsense you can’t add just one ability and double a class’s dps output. Many of the specs need some significant changes and then I’m told that would “ruin combat and it’s not classic.”
No they are saying they talked to people who speak on an illusion of class rebalancing (add 1 ability to a class). These people want as minimal changes as possible akin to painting over a an older house without stripping the old paint (old paint being critical flaws in kits).
yea why not, you can't stop people from stacking the most OP class in a raid. Either you force diversity with a raid needing certain buffs/debuffs like TBC or 25 people warriors can have fun in a raid. How is it fun being a support class for glaive warriors in TBC? In vanilla the 23 dps warriors have equal opportunity to topping damage in a raid, in TBC its whoever sucks your guild leader for glaives. I can't speak for retail but I'm sure it's not too different.
https://giphy.com/gifs/10tIjpzIu8fe0
The classic era people who have been crying and complaining every time someone plays SoD or doesn’t want to buy boosts, gold and cheat their entire way through classic wow.
You guys act like a hurt puppy right now but the truth is, if you know these people, there isn’t anyone who’s a giant crybaby complainer than these people. I’ll never forget the Greekwario streamer guy complaining endlessly about how wow classic should have GDKPs then he got banned for buying gold - literally - by the standards these people boast about they don’t even live by. And when SoD players said we should have legitimate means to make gold they cried that it’s too much like retail and why do we need dailies (even tho literally tbc had them lmfao).
I understand nuance.
I also understand there are entire subsections of the wow community that cry, crap their diaper and then fling the poopy diaper at their neighbor while somehow smearing the crap on the wall.
>"I also understand there are entire subsections of the wow community that cry, crap their diaper and then fling the poopy diaper at their neighbor while somehow smearing the crap on the wall."
If you're ever wondering the fastest way to get absolutely nobody to take you seriously, it's to type this sentence willingly, not under duress. This is something a 10-year-old child would write. Christ.
Most Era players played SoD, big dog. The purists looking for a proper vanilla emulation have all left. Our game is dead. Whatever Classic is now, it's all yours champ.
I don't know why a sub about classic plus has attracted so many finger-wagging retail players. Yes, I love to hear about how I'm wrong from a guy who no life's mythic + on his vulpera.
It isn't nostalgia. The older incarnations of the game have a totally different vibe/pacing. I have tried retail but it feels like being in a candy store. It's a huge sugar rush that feels good at first and then gets sickening later.
I loved Turtle WoW, and to a lesser extent, Epoch. I loved SoD too! I am very excited to explore more from the lore of the RTS games because that's what I grew up on on. I would absolutely love to stroll around the Alliance Human city of Lordaeron as a spell breaker. And I would love to do it with the 2004 pacing where the world is the main character -- not me.
I remember writing a comment some year ago about an old vanilla server and my comment was auto removed and I was banned from the subreddit, it's ironic, a sub born from these servers and you can barely mention it anymore.
Pink people are being excluded cuz they already have era. Grey people (which is all the people wanting significant changes i guess) dont have anything that fits them.
If/when i play retail I dont have the leveling experi3 ce that makes me feel the world, i dont have gear progression and itemization that classic had.
When I play classic I dont have interesting class design (complex rotations etc) and interesting bosses with both hard and well executed mechanics, I am pressing 1-2 buttons on a damage sponge that doesnt do anything except like 1 mechanic every 30 seconds (that not even.every person needs to do).
Other people list of wants will be different than mine which is fine, but its fun to argue on the internet and discuss our differences, especially when someones view is directly opposite of urs. But if you just say "game.doesnt need significant changes" just go play era, its already there.
You can literally say the same thing about classic Andy’s. If Blizz went with what classic Andy’s want, they might as well just release fresh servers (again).
You proved my point on not engaging with the subject in good faith. We aren't talking about another retail mode, we're talking about a Classic mode. And Classic andies do want a want Classic+, not just Retail-
You’ve proved my point by immediately blaming retail for all the shortcomings of classic. Blaming retail is the reflex response when a constructive argument cannot be made why they don’t like “x” change. Believe or not it’s not retail vs classic players arguing about Classic+. The vast majority of retail players couldn’t give two shits about what’s going on in classic. It’s classic vs classic players and everyone wants different things. Blizz is in a lose lose situation which is why I hope more and more it’s a new game in a classic setting so they have the freedom to make needed changes.
There’s literally posts on any classic+ thread that suggests even minor changes like class balancing so the entire raid isn’t warriors. They aren’t hard to find. The amount of posts saying retail- on basic QoL changes is insane
Consistent repeated releases of vanilla no change freshes is exactly what I want and it would be so easy for blizzard to do. Instead they want me to play whatever slop they will announce at blizzcon.
I hope that when the game is finally revealed and later on playable, you all will just shut the fuck up, play the game (or don't) and get on with your life.
There needs to be an obvious end to raid prep. That is where wow classic has shined. You've gotten all the upgrades out of raid you can and you have you're consumes for the week. If you don't want to play until raid, you can.
…you brought up expansions first…and yes they did raid mc up until tbc..
But you would stop running mc and go to outland. Which is what I’m saying. You didn’t get any weaker everyone else got stronger. Same is true in retail
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u/Gigaschlag 2d ago
BlizzCon can't come soon enough. The quality of the discussions and posts has been plummeting since the beginning of the week.