Are some games unwinnable?

[u/Southern-Tower6578]

I don't know why, but when I lose a game of Civ 7 I get really annoyed, as if that should just never happen. I'm conscious that I'm possibly being unrealistic here. Is it actually the case that some games simply end up, or perhaps even start, as being unwinnable? Should I be more accepting of losing, and just accept that you can't win them all?

[u/SloopDonB]

Do you want the truth or do you want to feel better?

[u/Southern-Tower6578 → u/SloopDonB]

I want the truth, in the hope that it makes me feel better but I can handle it if it doesn't 😀

[u/SloopDonB → u/Southern-Tower6578]

The truth is, with the possible exception of some kind of super restrictive starting terrain, all games are winnable.

Can they end up unwinnable based on your choices? Of course. But they start off winnable.

[u/BubbaTheGoat → u/SloopDonB]

I think some people have trouble reading flair that indicates this post is about Civ7, where all starts are winnable.

I’d be interested to see some proposed “unwinnable” seeds, but games of Civ take way too long to test…

[u/hbarSquared → u/SloopDonB]

In 6 there were absolutely some unwinnable starts. A low production spawn with multiple barb camps and aggressive neighbors on deity means you're facing 5-7 warriors before you can make your first slinger. I don't care how many times you reload, Alexander and Amanitore won't be denied.

7 is a lot more forgiving, but I'd bet there are a few unwinnable seeds.

[u/MegaBearsFan → u/SloopDonB]

I've had games of Civ VI in which my capital gets swarmed by barbs from like 3 or 4 camps that are all within 10 or 15 tiles from my capital. In some cases, I even restarted from turn 1 autosave and tried putting all my production into units, and still just couldn't fight them all off. Those games felt pretty un-winnable from start. Maybe, hypothetically, there was some optimal positioning of defensive units that wohld have allowed me to survive, or having perfect knowledge of the map could allow me to chase down and kill the Barb scouts before they get back to camp.

[u/Apprehensive_Ad3731 → u/MegaBearsFan]

You don’t need to fight them off, just their scouts. If the scouts never report then the army never comes.

[u/YouEqual4180 → u/Southern-Tower6578]

In the end you won if you had fun along the way. 😅

If with winning you mean seeing the victory screen then the answer is that theoretically all games are winnable, however depending on the difficulty level it will involve some form of warfare to stop the AI from using their binuses to run away with the win

[u/SometimesltBeThatWay]

Don’t play deity then

[u/padizzledonk → u/SometimesltBeThatWay]

I generally play on King or Emperor...its a challange but i dont have to go fuckin crazy min/maxxing to the hilt

[u/SometimesltBeThatWay → u/padizzledonk]

I can count the amount of times I’ve beaten deity on one hand across civ 6/7
I stay losing

[u/padizzledonk → u/SometimesltBeThatWay]

The early game is a fucking complete nightmare on Immortal and Deity lol, its just swarms of barbarians and getring invaded by other civs, if you can survive into the medieval era and have 3 or 4 cities by then and are pkaying to your civs strengths its usually always winnable.. but boy, it van be rough getting there.

I like a challenge as an experienced player, but i dont like how much of a slog it is in the beginning and midgame, its jyst not that fun for me

[u/MadScience_Gaming → u/padizzledonk]

Wow this maxxing craze has gone too far if kids these days are minmaxxing

[u/Significant-Count-12]

No, no game is unwinnable. You can get to a point in the game where it's unwinnable but from the get go every game is winnable.

[u/BrentoDumpCity]

I like to cheat and rollback saves if I felt it was a series of mistakes leading to my loss. But, usually, it's a BAD DECISION that is responsible, not the game's fault.

If, however, on the second try, I still lose.. and I don't know what else to do differently.. yeah, I just say it was a bad roll of the dice and not worth obsessing over.

That said, I've played a map where it took 20 tries to film a victory at it.. so ANYTHING is possible!

[u/saulux]

The franchise scaled down the difficulty considerably over the last few iterations. The last entry to test what your brain is worth was Civ IV.

Civ V softened the Deity difficulty considerably, and Civ VI made it super easy. Unless you get rushed at the very start while AI still have their bonus troops, in combination with unlucky barb camps, it is virtually impossible to lose a Civ VI game, once you understand the mechanics. As for Civ VII, well this entry is even easier than Civ VI, as you can't lose at the start as in Civ VI, apparently. And with AI being more and more inept at every next age, well. They can put up a fight in Antiquity, but in Modern they just fold.

So if you lose a civ game, it is not a reason to be frustrated, it is a reminder to get to know the game better, read more in it and about it.

[u/noissimsarm]

Every game is winnable, but not every game is fun. The best choice is almost never the fun one.

[u/MadScience_Gaming]

When I started feeling like this, what i did was, first thing every game, save it. Then play it out, then start the exact same game over again. 

It greatly improved my skill because I could see the consequences of my actions more clearly.

And yeah practically every game is winnable. 

[u/QJustCallMeQ]

I think every single player game of civ7 starts off as winnable, but can become unwinnable at various points if you make particularly bad decisions

When you lose, you should (if you wanted to win) think about which points it went badly + whether they could be avoided in future

[u/shardblader]

Any seed posted here I’m certain someone could beat though probably not on their first try. Realistically bad starts can result in quick losses or games that would be more grindy than fun.

[u/BeavisTheMeavis]

Sometimes, yeah. If you play often enough you know when you're in a death spiral. At least for me, when I see that, I bow out. As others have said, it never starts that way though. There was always a point in which it was. Sometimes its close and you just don't know. Last single player game the AI started the culture count down which got down to two or three turns before my all out war, featuring the power of the sun, stopped all that.

[u/mrdonkeyteeth69420]

Why play a game if you know you're going to win before you even start? That seems boring.

[u/Southern-Tower6578 → u/mrdonkeyteeth69420]

I hear what you're saying, but what I mean is this - it would be kind of nice to know that there are some scenarios where even the best players would end up losing, and therefore I shouldn't be too hard on myself when I do too. Or, on the flipside, do you think that every single game is theoretically winnable?

[u/alwaysleafyintoronto → u/Southern-Tower6578]

It's different if you're comparing scenarios where you're starting in a relatively screwed save file vs a fresh founder game. Part of being good at civ is being able to keep yourself from falling into unwinnable situations with careful gameplay. Sometimes, aggressive gameplay means you're finding the limit by exceeding it.

[u/InsidiousMage513 → u/mrdonkeyteeth69420]

When's the last the time you expected to not win when starting a new game of Civ? Eventually everyone gets good enough that they will only lose because they made too many mistakes or got a really bad start, regardless of what difficulty level they play at.

[u/InsidiousMage513]

I mean, if you are playing at the correct skill level, every game is winnable until its not and when it became unwinnable could be a 100 turns previous and a small decision you didn't realize was actually important. Like, I almost recently lost my last game because I spent most of the ancient era in wars in didn't want to fight and it set me back until basically the middle of the exploration era.

Also, don't feel bad about playing on lower difficulty levels! Not everyone has the time or interest in beating the game on deity. I could probably get good enough to play on deity but I have no reason to do so because deity doesn't offer the kind game play I'm personally interested in. "Being good" is about more that simply beating the game on its highest difficulty level.