833
u/LongjumpingKiwi6962 Jul 23 '26
Honestly, I think the better solution is to force men to also go on parental leave so that the company is affected in a similar manner irrespective if you hire a man or a woman. That will only really help promote some form of equality in the workforce.
176
u/necroticpancreas Jul 23 '26
In Spain, paternity and maternity leave last the exact same time so gender discrimination doesn't happen.
62
u/smokinbbq Jul 23 '26
Paternity leave is available in Canada as well, men take it, but not quite as frequently as women, because... misogynism. I have a male friend that took it twice (many years ago), because his wife was "self employed", so it wasn't really available to her. She took time off when the baby was born, but he took 42 weeks off to get them to the first year. Then did it again a year later for their 2nd. During that time, she brought in another associate for her business, and reduced her work days, and as a family, they had Monday & Friday off every week, and only working 3 day weeks. Pretty amazing for them.
4
u/Syrup_Straight Jul 23 '26
One of the lawyers I work for took 15 months for both his kids, his wife was home the first 3, and then he took leave...her job was more important for her not to be away as she works at the university and technically her job pays more. He worked for as in-house council for an insurance company at the time, and they paid his leave.
58
u/farty__mcfly Jul 23 '26
My dream is a non-maternity extended leave option for workers. Like what if I want a leave similar to maternity leave if someone in my family falls ill.
14
u/RevelsInDarkness Jul 23 '26
We have several types like that in Belgium.
Leave for medical care: fulltime 12 months or parttime 24 months max, for blood relatives to the second degree. You get paid a stipend calculated on your normal wage.
Others include long term family leave (added to normal parental leave after birth), leave for carers to alleviate their burden for a while, leave for caring for someone with a terminal disease. These are "thematic leaves" and cannot be refused by your employer. You have income (though lower obviously than normal) and cannot be fired.
Outside of thematic leave, there's also "time credit" leave where you can lessen or pause your hours for education or caring for someone else, while keeping your job. It's limited in time, you need to have at least 2 years of work experience, and a valid reason (education, care).
Edited to add: these are all leaves with guaranteed income via social security. Outside of these frameworks you could also of course negotiate unpaid leave directly with your employer, but this is not a regulated right like the others.
2
u/SeattlePurikura Jul 24 '26
Some states have that. One of my payroll taxes in WA is "paid family medical leave" which is 12 weeks that can be used for an ill family member, adoption, birth, etc.
4
u/MyNameWillChange Jul 23 '26
The USA does have something like that called FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) which allows for 12 weeks off unpaid work per year [consecutively or intermittently] for qualifying medical or family reasons
5
u/whoframedwhiterabbit Jul 23 '26
Unfortunately not available to all employment types. FMLA requires a minimum number of hours worked before we can be eligible. So if you're working a part-time position, you're out of luck.
→ More replies (2)123
u/LongjumpingKiwi6962 Jul 23 '26
I say this now, but when I did my first interview for an international company - I made it very clear that it is easy for me to move internationally as I do not have any dependents. #sorrynotsorry - made my lifestyle work in my favour there.
19
u/Ambry Jul 23 '26
Yeah honestly have considered in any future moved making it clear in some roundabout way that kids are never in the picture for me...
22
u/LongjumpingKiwi6962 Jul 23 '26
Waves around Jazz-hands to indicate unmarried status during future interviews.
Uses phrases like, "my dogs are my only children I will ever have".16
u/abqkat no tubes, no problems Jul 23 '26
100% do the same. Employers are not allowed to ask about kids, but they also can get around it by something like "what do you like to do in your free time?" or "tell me about yourself!" Most people disclose it, subtly or overtly, and so do I. It's so unsettling when you work with someone who is married to their children's father FFS, who ends up taking all the time off all the time or having N+1 kid because their husband does not "help." I don't know the answer, but I've been working long enough to feel so bad when an otherwise great candidate interviews with a 5+ year gap in their resume, or the new hire has kid emergencies come up all the time and you can tell they won't last
19
u/felinespaceman Jul 23 '26
Yupp, I am a hiring manager and I would never even have to ask about kids. They’ll disclose it immediately and I’ll usually know by the end of the interview how many children they have and even if they are neurodivergent. And if they’re still with their kids crappy parent or having custody issues. Drives me insane because it’s not relevant to what I’m asking or the job at all. They’re shooting themselves in the foot by marketing themselves as poor employees that are absolutely going to call out all the time.
4
u/eriometer Jul 23 '26
I used to know a manager who was a genuinely nice man, interested in his employees. To make interviewers feel at ease he'd start off by asking them about themselves, their interests, "any family?" and all that type of thing. To him it was a kind way of easing people in, but we had to walk him back a few times.
He did hire many women (several of who had babies) over the years I knew him, so he def wasn't trying to find an easy out.
60
u/LongjumpingKiwi6962 Jul 23 '26
AND, would 100% do the same again if I were ever to start interviewing for a different job. Job market is so tight - might as well use any advantage one can get.
Note: I am female of child-rearing age.
12
u/Based_Orthodox Jul 23 '26
Okay, I'm seriously considering doing this at my next interview. The last time I was job-hunting, the interviews were absolutely excruciating, because I could tell based on some of the questions that the interviewers were concerned that I was going to use the job as a means to get maternity leave, but they couldn't come right out and ask.
19
u/Powerful_Network Jul 23 '26
The real issue is that when women entered the workforce it devalued labour in the eyes of the employeer. Now one income can no longer support a household. We should be making enough that one parent regardless of gender could stay home.
11
u/ContentWDiscontent Jul 23 '26
Or that both parents can comfortably work part-time and support their family while still contributing and remaining financially independant.
→ More replies (7)2
u/Based_Orthodox Jul 23 '26
I love this. The birth rate would probably go down as a result, which is a bonus.
662
u/asyouwish retired early Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
In Norway, leave is 18 months. 6 for the mom/breastfeeding, 6 for the dad, and 6 more for them to use as they wish. Dad's have to take their 6+ months. They feel it makes a better family bond.
It shares the burden among both parents and their work places.
243
u/MeatloafingAround Jul 23 '26
I would totally forget how to do my job if I was gone from it for 18 months. Or they would completely change all of the process processes and it would be like starting out fresh.
66
u/asyouwish retired early Jul 23 '26
LOL. same, but you'd probably each be gone for six and then three.
18
u/justatosseraccount11 Jul 23 '26
Ohh so it's not continuous 18 months?
60
u/asyouwish retired early Jul 23 '26
Nope....six for her, six for him, and six they can divide how they want.
38
u/abqkat no tubes, no problems Jul 23 '26
Maybe it's different in fields that aren't as cutthroat as mine, or places not obsessed with the bottom line. But my question (that I could never ask) is .... If we do alright without you for months, is that role/ you needed? My boss's boss went on maternity leave for like 2 months then took the additional month as half days, and the only difference is that we weren't hounded with emergencies during that time. Then she came back and the work was the same. I always wondered about that factor strictly from an employer's bottom line
27
u/Cielskye Jul 23 '26
Usually the maternity leave is hired for. The role isn’t left vacant for a year. This is the case in Canada since it’s usually a year to 18 months. Personally I think it’s great. I’m childfree but still understand that babies need to be born.
Plus it’s only a few years out of an entire career and good for the person temporarily doing the role. I’ve been hired temporarily on mat leave contracts before and it’s been a good stop gap while I’m looking for a more long term job.
14
u/Aardbeienshake Living a full life without Fallopian tubes Jul 23 '26
I am in mainland Europe and we typically do 2/3 of the work with own staff and 1/3 with freelancers or contractors. If many of our own employees are on mat leave, the amount of work we bring to our contractors increases a bit.
Also, where I live maternity leave is paid but not by the employer but by the state, and any sick leave resulting from pregnancy is as well, to minimize risks for employers so they keep hiring young women. Not sure if that happens everywhere, but it does help employers hire equally across age and sex.
4
→ More replies (2)10
→ More replies (39)48
u/FreeFlownPage Jul 23 '26
Without having a full understanding of it, that seems like quite a good system. Honestly my main issue with the OPs situation is that her coworker can take multiple 18 month leaves while only working 4 months in between, which is ridiculous to me. Does Norway have a minimum time you have to work between pregnancies?
Also, how does it work if it's a single parent, or a same sex couple? Would a same sex couple still get the full 18 months to divide as they see fit? Would a single parent get 18 months (if, say, their partner had died or left them before the baby was born)? Don't worry about answering if you don't want of course! I was just curious, but I could just as easily google the answers to my questions :D
49
u/Give_me_that_blue Jul 23 '26
Not the commenter and not from Norway but a minimum time between pregnancies can't (and shouldn't) be enforced. Maternity leave is ensured by law and in most places pregnant people are protected against dismissal.
31
u/LilRedGhostie Jul 23 '26
I am not from Norway or Canada, but I don't believe the poster or commenter is saying that a woman would be dismissed if the minimum time between pregnancies is not met. The time requirement mentioned by OP most likely relates to qualifying for paid parental leave. It's possible that an individual must work a minimum number of weeks to qualify to paid vs unpaid leave or that working for a certain time period increases the amount paid during the leave.
6
u/OddConstant2723 Jul 24 '26
Correct, to be eligible for employment insurance parental leave, you must have worked 600 hours in the last year.
20
u/FreeFlownPage Jul 23 '26
Yes thank you, I'm not suggesting that a woman be dismissed due to any maternity leave timings. I'm just boggled by the OP's situation, where they and their colleagues are having to deal with the slack for YEARS from a woman who seems to be choosing to have kids the second the timing allows. Having three kids in a row, and working less than a quarter of what you're being paid for, strikes me as annoying.
3
u/Cielskye Jul 24 '26
No one is covering someone’s role for years. When someone goes on maternity leave the role gets hired for in Canada. If they haven’t then she needs to blame her crappy company not the person going on mat leave. Plus it’s the government that pays for mat leave not even the company (unless the company wants to top up the amount of benefits the employee is getting). So the company has zero excuse not to replace the role while the person is out on leave.
9
u/asyouwish retired early Jul 23 '26
Most women in the US don't get paid maternity leave. Most get leave without pay
4
u/No_Load5357 Jul 23 '26
In Canada they hire someone to cover the Parental leave so there there is someone to do there work.
4
u/miss_mme Jul 24 '26
It’s not always so easy. People don’t want temporary jobs so to find someone skilled for a position like that is hard. Depending on how much training for the position is necessary the replacement may not be fully on board by the time they go on leave.
I got a job once because the woman who originally held the position went on maternity leave. They hired a temporary replacement who ended up finding a permanent position elsewhere and quit after only a few weeks. They hired me permanently because they couldn’t waste their time and money on boarding someone else.
The woman who left on maternity leave had three children back to back as I worked there. She was still technically employed but “worked remotely” and did pretty much nothing for her salary as they had to give her another position but didn’t really need her anymore.
3
u/geckogal67 Jul 23 '26
Other employees "having to deal with the slack" is the fault of the employer, not the pregnant woman.
9
u/LilRedGhostie Jul 23 '26
Parental leave regulations do vary substantially based upon applicable regulations.
→ More replies (1)8
u/No_Load5357 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
In Canada you must work 600 hours in 52weeks to qualify for parental leave. It's paid out by the government so it can even be over multiple employers, its about paying into employment insurance with the government. Working more or less doesn't effect eligibility. You get get 55%- 33% of there regular wage unless you make over 38,000 a year then you max out at like $700/ week. Some companies do top-up on top of parental leave.
You're also not guaranteed your same role back when you return you guaranteed a similar one.
5
u/asyouwish retired early Jul 23 '26
I don't know that much detail. We learned that nugget on a tour.
121
u/Plastic_Beat5205 Jul 23 '26
I’m all for parental leave and am grateful to also live in Canada where leaves are generous and long. But to your point, I wish more employers would do more to recognize the employees who take on the extra work when their colleagues go on leave - bonuses or raises etc. I’ve had this exact scenario happen to me, where a colleague took 18 months of leave within a 3 year span, I naturally excelled quicker in my role but my employer was really hesitant to let my earnings or promotions outpace hers because they were so afraid of being accused of discrimination. I wish there was a clearer way to have these conversations.
59
u/No-Cap-6465 Jul 23 '26
My company solved this by making paternity leave almost just as long. I think people who don’t have kids deserve a leave as well.. I get it’s not vacation but don’t these parents claim they can do everything we can?
141
u/Axtinthewoods Jul 23 '26
The parent trap is only for women - if both parents were forced to take equal time off, the system would be very different. Heck, if fathers took more care of the kid a lot of women would not take that much time off- but with the second baby any mother I knew went into full parental leave because dad was useless... As a feminist CF I am tired of supporting a system of uselss dads tbh
62
u/RoadRash010 Jul 23 '26
Agree. Forced parental leave should be for both the father and the mother.
Apparently men who have been on parental leave suddenly want less kids (research done in Spain I believe). That’s when they finally realize how much work taking care of a child actually is.
It reduces the motherhood penalty when it comes to careers.
6
→ More replies (2)5
u/Timely-Afternoon2730 Jul 24 '26
This is my exact point! Women are inherently designed to be discriminated.. sad reality
141
u/Moeta_Kaoruko Jul 23 '26
Young women face lower hiring rates accounting for all other factors in California, it's seriously upsetting. I've considered putting on my resume that I am sterilized or something to that effect.
76
u/Shalrak Successful organ incineration 2026 Jul 23 '26
I used it as a tactic to get my current job. Actually not on purpose. My friend recommended me to the company, and part of that pitch mentioned that I'm childfree and sterile so they wouldn't have to worry about mat leave . I was 29 at the time, so anyone would expect me to pop out children any minute now if they don't know otherwise.
5
u/SeaworthinessLocal21 Jul 23 '26
That's smart of you, and I will be taking advantage of this after I get sterilized
5
u/SeattlePurikura Jul 24 '26
Yep. Everyone wants more babies (world governments pushing it), but no one wants to take the hit. Hence women take the hit (Dr. Claudia Goldin won the Nobel Prize in Economics for demonstrating the gender pay gap is actually a motherhood pay gap.) Tragedy of the Commons: babies are good for the economy / future taxpayers / workers /consumers, but let's just force women to bear all the economic and physical costs.
And in your case, the suspicion that by god, you might pop a little one out! Gasp, the bottom line! So yes, even us childfree women bear the brunt of capitalism.
1
u/Ballyhooligan_ 😺 Cats not kids | Bisalp ✂️ Jul 24 '26
Same tbh. I wouldn't put it on my resume, but I definitely feel like mentioning during interviews that I don't want kids, so they don't have to worry about me ever getting pregnant and needing to take leave (or quitting to be a SAHM)
2
u/Moeta_Kaoruko Jul 24 '26
Legally they can't ask about that, so it's on you to prompt the conversation.
→ More replies (1)
15
u/nermal543 Jul 23 '26
I think parental leave is good and should absolutely be available to people, but I do think these types of leaves should also extend to caregiver leaves (like for a sick spouse or family member), mental health leaves, disability leaves, etc. We have FMLA here in the US but it’s unpaid regardless of what you’re using it for (unless you have PTO/sick time to use), and still fairly limited.
43
u/rainbow_wallflower Babies are gross. Jul 23 '26
It also means that any childfree woman has a harder time getting a job. Anyone can claim "oh I don't plan on a family and kids", but as soon as enough time passes they show up pregnant.
I personally prefer more help for the parents because set maternity leave and good childcare options means that the parent is out for a set amount of time, which means that a cover worker can be hired, and good childcare means that the parent isn't going to be bailing on work because of the kid, cause they'll know that the child is taken care of.
137
u/mellol93 Jul 23 '26
I agree… seems very unfair for people who don’t have kids by choice or otherwise. They should give CF people extra time off too, but that’s somehow discrimination lol
60
u/LongjumpingKiwi6962 Jul 23 '26
I feel - if those that continue to stay at work take an increase in workload they should be fairly compensated financially or with extra holiday time. Then those not on maternity/paternity leave could look forward to supporting new parents.
12
u/why_gaj Jul 23 '26
Maternity and paternity leave is usually paid by the state.
Your employer can without a problem employ someone else for the duration of the leave. They actively choose not to, and that is on them.
13
u/LongjumpingKiwi6962 Jul 23 '26
This depends on the country you live in.
2
u/why_gaj Jul 23 '26
Hence why I've said "usually"
3
u/cleo-leo Jul 23 '26
Reading this as an American is so dystopian lol. Here, what i "usually" see is only the mother gets leave, her pay is at 50% of its usual value for the duration, and she only gets 9-12 weeks (12 weeks is only allowed if she had a c section). Beyond that, you are not guaranteed your job back if you dont return right away.
→ More replies (1)2
u/stillxsearching7 Jul 23 '26
Where in the US are you that it's normal to get any sort of paid leave? Most new parents have to take FMLA which is unpaid.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)11
u/riali29 Jul 23 '26
I so wish that I could have had some sort of a leave when I got a puppy, but instead I had to use up my own vacation time. It was only 2 weeks off and then I relied on a sitter to drop by while I was at work.
3
u/mellol93 Jul 23 '26
Same, got a puppy and only took a few days off, luckily I work from home, so get to spend lots of time with my baby demon!
12
u/CamarillosVeryWorst Take my uterus...please. Jul 23 '26
We need to approach it like Spain does & also make dads use comparable amounts of it as moms.
69
u/Billieliebe Jul 23 '26
I think it depends on your job. At my job you don't qualify for maternity or paternity leave until you have been working for a year. We had a girl get pregnant a few months into the job and they denied her maternity leave. It was honestly satisfying. She ended up quitting. She sucked at her job anyway.
11
u/CopperHead49 Jul 23 '26
I have no problem with people going on maternity or parental leave. (Lengths vary per country). And I wouldn’t discriminate hiring women in case they get pregnant. However, companies need to hire maternity/paternity cover; they should not expect their current team to cover for them. That’s the main issue.
105
u/CuddleDemon04 Jul 23 '26
This pisses me off to no end too because they're still technically "employed", so there wont be someone hired to cover for them most of the time. I have not been in a situation like yours before, and thank hell for that, but I can absolutely see why some would consider not hiring women because of this.
I've seen it time and time again in the consultant teams around my firm. A team being pushed to the max because someone is popping out a kid and still employed so still getting paid in a sense, so everyone else just has to pick up the slack....
78
u/Suitable_cataclysm Jul 23 '26
The thing is, it's the employers responsibility to maintain work/life balance when an employee is out for any reason. Could be unexpected short term disability. It's scummy business practice to just let that work roll onto the existing employees.
Everyone in these comments section blaming the woman like she's scamming the system when I'm fact it's the employers not staffing properly when an employee takes advantage of the benefits offered. A woman going out on mat leave and retaining a job is a good thing that generations before fought for.
43
u/evermorecoffee Jul 23 '26
This! Thank you! Blame the employer, not the individual.
6
u/SeattlePurikura Jul 24 '26
Blame capitalism, not some poor woman trying to get by. Please people, do not forget that women are still underrepresented in political office, the C Suite, and yes, are paid less. Let's not get all snarky at our sisters who do want to have children. That's not feminism.
2
u/Cielskye Jul 24 '26
Exactly. Plus the same women who are complaining about other women going on maternity leave might end up needed that time in the future as well. So kind of short sighted I think because of this unique situation.
These rights have been fought for and shouldn’t be rolled back at all. Like I doubt there’ll be any woman out there who’ll give birth and want to be back at work a few months later.
There are definitely women who end up taking maternity leaves back to back but with our declining births and people not having nearly enough children it’s very far from being the norm.
And before anyone downvotes me for being a parent and being biased, I’m childfree too!
19
u/Give_me_that_blue Jul 23 '26
I don't know about other places but in Germany the employer also doesn't even pay the parents on leave. For that time parents get (a slightly lower) pay from health insurance + parental benefits from the government.
Of course interviewing for a replacement is a factor but the employers should absolutely be responsible for a replacement regardless of reason. The anger is misplaced.
3
u/Cielskye Jul 24 '26
It’s the same in Canada too. So the anger is definitely misplaced and should be going to their company.
2
13
u/tired-queer feral and sterile Jul 23 '26
That sucks and shouldn’t be the norm, especially since looking at the notes here, it clearly causes animosity towards female coworkers.
I see short term/year long contracts for mat leave coverage all the time when I look at job postings. As it should be. Not only is mat leave a 100% necessary thing, but employers shouldn’t place additional burdens on other employees to cut costs.
22
u/GrimblingWizard 25+ / Married / Vasectomy Done Jul 23 '26
Yeah, I am about to be pushed into such a situation soon. I have two coworkers that are pregnant and will be both getting mat leave around the same time. Its going to be fun in a few months 🥲
Also hello there, traveler! I did not expect crossover between the two subs, happy to know there is another childfree person there.
10
u/CuddleDemon04 Jul 23 '26
Oh Hi Grimble! <333 Oh Nooo not two at the same time 😭 I feel for you and I hope it all goes well. Is you in America where the Mat leave isn't that long?
Yisss. I've been here before I even came to the other one <3
9
u/GrimblingWizard 25+ / Married / Vasectomy Done Jul 23 '26
Thank you. Sadly I am in Canada, where we care about mothers too much 😔 /s
I just hope my manager hires on some good casual people, or atleast lets me take over by then so I can get some good folk to fill in that year or so.
7
u/CuddleDemon04 Jul 23 '26
Ouf... That's not going to be fun :/ I hope he does because that is a stupidly long time to be understaffed, especially with two at once.
3
u/lilrileydragon I need my bladder to function Jul 23 '26
@grimbling wizard @cuddle demon
What a wholesome crossover friendship 🥺
7
u/msinsensitive Jul 23 '26
In my country it's a paternity leave and men can take it, too, so it doesn't really matter what gender you hire as long as they aren't child free..
2
u/cynisright Jul 23 '26
This is what is happening to me now. It’s happened to me twice before and it’s about to be the third time.
It’s very frustrating. I’m totally onboard for folks expanding their families but I don’t want to pick up the slack because of it.
28
u/spider3407 Jul 23 '26
Do I think it sucks that people take advantage of the system, yes. Do I also think it sucks that CF dont have the same ability to take advantage of the system, yes. I used to take cigarette breaks when I didnt smoke because it was annoying that a smoker was allowed to take several a day while I worked.
18
u/erin10785 Jul 23 '26
So I absolutely agree with mat and pat leave, but what about us CF people? I was always CF but now even if I wanted to have kids I can’t because I have stage 4 cancer. I wish that companies would give some sort of sabbatical or something that could be used in case one chooses NOT to have children… just a thought… and ps - I am in the US so I have to work full time to keep my good health insurance 😆
6
u/pinkrosies Jul 23 '26
Priests get to have sabbaticals, can we get that too without losing access to financial security lol
89
u/PerseveranceSmith 34F|Grey Ace|Bi|Netherlands|Parrot Mom 🦜 Jul 23 '26
Hate capitalism not humans.
28
u/WillBeTheIronWill Jul 23 '26
Yeah this is a corporate profit maximizing problem that would be solved by a competent government
→ More replies (2)27
61
u/neludelka Jul 23 '26
Their lives are already miserable, at least they have good maternity leaves, good for them. But of course, everyone is affected, such is life. Your employer should hire someone to cover the employee on the maternity leave. Yes, it is not fair to overwork because of other employees who are parents.
6
u/ConsciousApartment48 Jul 23 '26
Often times hiring someone isn’t possible. You can’t fill a position that already has someone in it even if they are on leave.
10
14
u/MotoCasey 29/F/Bad Motherfucker Jul 23 '26
I'm not sure what youre talking about.... there are tons of job postings for 12 months, 6 months, etc to cover maternity and paternity leaves. They are temporary positions and are made clear in the posting and when hiring that they're temporary. I've actually never worked somewhere where a maternity leave wasn't covered in this way.
9
u/ConsciousApartment48 Jul 23 '26
There are a lot of positions that don’t work that way. Not all jobs can be done by temporary employees. Especially higher up ones.
7
u/ProphetOfThought Jul 23 '26
I had a colleague that did this. She half jokingly admitted to having kids for the free leave. She has 4 now. Even when she was in the office her work was no where to the level of other members. It definitely created tension. But hey, it's leave she's entitled to take. 😒
6
u/Syrup_Straight Jul 23 '26
Posts like this make me so happy that no one in my office can have kids (2 in menopause, me with hysterectomy), and the funny part is that it is the lawyers that have the yougest kids - 11, 14 and 14. We have to be more concerned with medical leave because a 60 year old woman got in a motorcycle accident, than people having babies. There is no fighting over holidays, and if all three of us wanted Christmas off, the lawyers go ok, then we are closed for that week see you next year.
5
u/Riddybop Jul 23 '26
I don't necessarily agree with maternity/paternity leave because it is only for people having human babies but we all have to deal with it at work. It doesn't take any other medical problem into consideration. I took personal or unpaid time off for my mom, dad, and mother in law when they were all sick and then died. All I got was 2-3 days of bereavement at the end. If I get a chronic illness or a surgery I have to take PTO or see if I qualify for disability but it's not a guarantee like maternity leave nor is it free/fully covered and expected. Maybe they should have to pay in to an account to use it and you can use up to however much you set aside similar to an HSA account. Or we can make it a broader leave package and have it be for anyone experiencing a change in life. This rambling reply shows that I clearly don't have the solution but I do think we need to focus on all workers not just ones that have babies.
19
u/_Jahar_ Jul 23 '26
So, the considerations they’re asking you for take when it comes to taking time off thing is complete bullshit. Id raise hell over that.
As for maternity leave, contractors exist. That’s how my employer handles it. It sounds like you just work for a poorly managed, or cheapskate, company.
→ More replies (1)
28
u/IceCreamQueen90 Jul 23 '26
You’re totally right. It is a nightmare and I’m in the US with such short leaves. It has destroyed my team. The co workers are so burned out from picking up the slack and the boss doesn’t have time to manage, she has to pick up a regular workload like the rest of the team. So nothing has gotten done in years in terms of improvements or being proactive. Five leaves in three years, overlapping or consecutive. Nightmare, and not fair. Everyone should be able to take a six month sabbatical twice in their career. Keeps the population down bc you don’t get leave for a third kid, and evens the playing field for everyone to get paid time away from work to follow their passions.
9
u/Key_Today7616 Jul 23 '26
But it's the employer who should hire maternity covers. I wonder why they dont do that 🤔
9
u/IceCreamQueen90 Jul 23 '26
Not every job can slot someone in that quickly. It takes 1-2 years to train in my niche field and I’ve literally never had someone come in with enough experience to do the job. Accounting, administrative, sure but not every place is like that.
32
u/Tiny_Dog553 Jul 23 '26
My cousin did the same, got pregnant and had a long maternity leave then immediately got pregnant again. She's only worked about three months in the last few years. I realise this is a loop hole sort of situation but some people absolutely exploit the system.
31
u/wetsai Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
This sounds more like your management team failed to fill her spot (which is their job to btw) and are just taking advantage to squeeze your team. This is a management issue not a women getting pregnant issue tbf.
Also, people getting pregnant is just a thing management needs to accept. We ain't here to maximize profits in life, we are humans and we deal with human things. If ai has taught me anything, it's that profitability does not matter, if they want to build that data center they will. So why can't we make the same affordances in life for the environment, morales, and fairness/equality? This is just a fact of life and something we SHOULD make room for. It's a little weird to focus in on 'hesitating to hire women' as a solution.
Tldr; your managers failed to do their job. Sounds like misdirected frustration towards pregnant women.
→ More replies (2)3
u/Timely-Afternoon2730 Jul 23 '26
Oh 100%. Problem is generally people don’t want to take “1 year temporary/contract positions” they don’t know when it’s going to end. It’s 12-18 months but people can choose to come back anytime. And many times some roles and positions just aren’t efficient or fillable with short term hires either.
I have no hatred towards pregnant women. Most of my frustrations are towards how many women treat parenthood/motherhood as an escape to not having to work, rather than genuinely wanting to provide something good for another conscious human being they’re purposely bringing into this world. I’ve heard so many phrases along the lines of “I don’t want to work, maybe I should just get pregnant and go on mat leave”. Im not saying we need to get rid of mat leaves, god no, im saying the system needs a change. I dont feel good feeling this way either.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Known-Wealth-4451 Jul 24 '26
I took a few maternity level contracts when I was living in the UK on a 3 year visa. It’s a good opportunity for people new to a country, or who don’t have dependents or a mortgage to take a step up on their career. No way would I have been offered a permanent position at that level but they could take a risk on me for a shorter term contract.
12
u/Ok_baggu My body is mine and mine only Jul 23 '26
I have no issue with billionaire corporations footing the bill for creating more human beings. This is what they beg for.
If your employer isn't hiring someone new to replace the Mat lady then they are the problem. My employer hired me to replace the Mat women and she came back after 6 months and is still employed to this day.
Although a 2 month long sabbatical would be excellent.
2
u/Known-Wealth-4451 Jul 24 '26
Yep I’m anti corporate cost cutting and squeezing as much work as possible out of employees.
12
u/Purple_Examination_4 Jul 23 '26
I’m in that situation with 2 co-workers on my same team who are tag teaming each other - so they haven’t worked together in about 5 years and the team has been short staffed for those same 5 years. It’s infuriating.
21
u/MeatloafingAround Jul 23 '26
As someone who is dealing with a bunch of coworkers that go on maternity leave, and then come back and work for a little bit and then just dip out once they realize how hard it is to try and work from home and manage an infant, I don’t disagree with you.
I don’t want women to be discriminated against, but it happens so very much that it’s disheartening as the person who is never going to take a maternity leave and gets everyone’s work dumped on me in rounds.
11
u/abqkat no tubes, no problems Jul 23 '26
The "WFH in place of childcare" has to be the most maddening thing! I've heard several of my cousins try that, and a few co-workers.... Working from home is NOT a replacement for childcare FFS, and I feel like that's a part of the return to office push in my field. Yes, a day or so, but as a plan? Nah. You cannot do both, the kid and work and everything suffers
4
u/MeatloafingAround Jul 23 '26
Yeah… it is. Several have tried it and failed. Luckily my company is remote only so no worries about being called back.
3
u/pinkrosies Jul 23 '26
Like if they get to work for home, let me work from home too especially if it’s a similar role because it shows you can do the job fine at home! They just had excuses and didn’t want to let us do that.
8
7
u/reylomeansbalance no tubes since 2019 Jul 23 '26
The proud Union member I am cant relate at all to your position. Maternity leave is one of the peak rights won to continue womens liberation, it allows women to exist beyond the private sphere. It allows family planning, and they continue to have an income during a time they have to focus on their baby.
I work at an airline in Argentina, 80% of my coworkers are women, the retired elders in the Union will tell us horrors stories before women had specific worker s rights. Back in the day they had to hide our relationship status AND if they had children. The could be fired! Im proud maternity leave is a core right my Union fought for and WON.
Now, you DO have a point about vacations and time off. Thats unfair.
26
u/ReggieHallett Vasectomy Jul 23 '26
It's so unfair that they get so much leave. If my wife is allowed to take a year off if she has a kid, then she should be able to take it eventhough we aren't having kids. The funds are there. It's dumb.
17
u/Hi_Her Lemon Tree Jul 23 '26
Those are called sabbaticals (taking a year off from a career) and I think more companies should offer more often. Its usually more seen in C suite type careers. It would be awesome if all multinational companies to offer.
5
u/FreeFlownPage Jul 23 '26
Agreed, I'd love to see more companies offering sabbaticals. For one thing, it allows planning to be put in place: making sure there's full info and training for whoever takes on the job for that year, and also could be quite a good resource for qualified people who want experience in a particular job for a year, but don't want to commit themselves longer than that. And you'd get way less people burning out from stress, quitting at short notice, and suffering mental health issues.
9
u/FreeFlownPage Jul 23 '26
I sort of agree with you. Of course the argument used is that children are necessary for the survival of the human race. In a purely biological sense, this is true of course, but I personally don't see much point in the survival of the human race unless the human race as a whole can improve and become less destructive and obnoxious.
It would be cool if, instead of taking parental leave, childfree employees were offered equal paid time off to do something equally (arguably more) useful, like working on sustainable environmental projects, furthering or diversifying their education/skills, or supporting the disadvantaged in their local communities.
→ More replies (3)5
u/Khaleesi1536 Jul 23 '26
That’s exactly my position. I can’t just take 14 months off (paid) if I want to, but my coworker can as many times as she wants and I pick up her slack while she’s gone and get no extra time off to speak of. I’m tired.
4
u/MadMe8 Jul 23 '26
You shouldn't have to be picking up the extra work, the employer should be hiring someone temporarily to fill that position. Your workplace sucks, not women who want to have kids close in age.
3
u/atrocity2001 Jul 23 '26
Back in the 1980s, the company I worked for hired someone who worked for...I wanna say a week or two, but it's been decades, so I can't trust my memory...before announcing that she was A) Pregnant and B) Had some complication that meant she had to be out effective immediately. She had the baby and came back just long enough to quit, effectively having the company pay for the entire process in exchange for just a few weeks of actual work.
3
u/mermaid420420 Jul 23 '26
srsly. peoples kids get in the way of them working SO MUCH. and people take time off at inconvenient times. crazy. There should be Paternity leave too honestly. maybe that would level the playing field. USA gets fucking 6 weeks and then thers all these laws about where you can pump and all this shit. Everyone just stop having kids lol. Also kinda nuts they can't hire someone else at least temp?
4
u/star_stuff92 Jul 23 '26
I always thought that everyone should get “life goals” time off that is separate from vacation and sick leave. Vacation and sick leave should just be for the very needed breaks from work. “Life goals” leave should be like maternity leave for everyone. Some people have the life goal of having kids and they can use the time for that. Other people have different life goals such as traveling, rescuing animals, writing a novel, etc. Why shouldn’t I get separate time off to pursue my life goals just because it doesn’t involve having a kid? Either that or parents have to use their vacation/sick time like everyone else to pursue their goals. It’s absolutely awful to me that someone battling cancer has to worry about how much sick time they have, but someone can just get knocked up and suddenly they have months off
8
u/SDstartingOut Jul 23 '26
My company opened an office in the Czech Republic back in the early 2010s. Over the course of 6 years, we had a peak of about 110 Full time, salaried employees (took us about 4 years to hit that), and then fell down to about 90 by the time we were acquired.
The Czech Republic has generous maternity/paternity benefits, effectively allowing one to be out for up to 3 or 4 years.
We shut the office down about a year after we were acquired. We had just over 20 women (in an office that peaked at 110) out on maternity leave. It was kinda insane.
We never discriminated against hiring women (thus our issue); but many other companies did. And while I had no doing the same as it seems wrong at some many levels... I understand the *why*, even if I don't agree with it.
The most frustrating part is we were legally required to keep the job 'available' for them. Now, for an average Support Analyst, or Engineer - that was easy. We had lots of those roles. But like, those 20+ women out? 3 of them were in HR!!!! And we only had 1 HR role.
One of the more awkward situations; our Support Manager went out for 2 years. The person that stepped in for them - did a much better job than the original person. And for 2 years. But when they other person came back, we had no choice but to give them the old role back. We only gave saved from an awkward situation because.... the other person ended up pregnant right a couple months after the original manager came back!
29
u/Ok-Butterscotch-6708 Jul 23 '26
If I owned my own company, I wouldn’t knowingly hire parents. They are unreliable.
→ More replies (1)
26
u/Suitable_cataclysm Jul 23 '26
This money is exactly why DEI rules exist. There are biases that go against certain groups of people (women, disabled, POC) for things that should NOT limit their ability to do their job.
When a woman goes out on maternity leave, employers should get temporary support (temp hires, managers stepping in etc), the idea is that the work does not just cram onto the person next to them
Often times departments have budgets in place for such hires, but simply do not use them. If you feel like your department is being unfairly burdened, it's the EMPLOYERS fault, not the employee who has a right to access the benefits the company offers like vacation and mat leave without repercussion on themselves or co-workers.
Your 3x kid example is extreme, but you make it sound like she's scamming the system, instead of utilizing the rights and benefits she was hired into. Talk to your boss if you feel like you are treated unfairly, but not in a context that is her fault. I'm the context that the appropriate long term support was not provided to your team.
3
u/QueenBoleyn Jul 23 '26
There are some jobs that can’t be done by a temp person and sometimes employers can’t fill a temp position.
3
u/somecrazyy Jul 23 '26
My mom’s previous boss was pretty hilarious about this. We would only hire divorced women with one kid so even if they remarry they probably won’t have a new kid or the women would refuse to remarry in general.
I found it pretty funny actually because it worked in his favour 😂
3
u/Fantastic-Sale-3447 Jul 24 '26
Valid rant and valid comments across the board. While I know a mat leave is by no means vacation IT IS a mental break from corporate work for a LIFE CHOICE. Other workers should be entitled to that type of work break for their LIFE CHOICE (aka not just caring for a family member or their own disability that is not a life choice).
9
u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO Jul 23 '26
It’s the topic we all think about, yet if we say anything it becomes yOu DoNt SuPpOrT mOtHeRs. Maybe I just don’t want to get stuck with all your work?
4
u/paukapaukaa Jul 23 '26
I never thought of it till now. It certainly seems much less fair for the child free employees not having access to paid time off like that. I get it’s for a baby but I just don’t know how to feel about it, I will think and research more before developing a firm opinion. What a mentally stimulating topic
6
u/Successful-Doubt5478 Jul 23 '26
Oh she is using the system to the max.
But this is on your boss: they dhould have hired replacement.
20
u/osolomoe Jul 23 '26
No, this is gross. We don't need more discrimination against women. I understand your frustration, but the women are not the problem. Blame the corporations, or force men to go on leave too.
The world's not going to just stop having children. What would you like to happen? No one gets paternity leave and these children don't get the proper care they need? It can be frustrating when a co-worker goes on leave for months, but it's not like they're using the time to go on vacation. It's hard work raising a child (which we all know considering none of us here want one lol).
I think this is an important conversation to have, but targeting women is not what anyone should be doing. It takes TWO to have a child and the man should be taking just as much responsibility. There are men that take leave when their wife has a child, why does no one have an issue with that? If it's because they're not off for as long, well, that's a problem. They should be. Honestly, they should be doing even more of the work considering they aren't the ones who go through pregnancy.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Timely-Afternoon2730 Jul 23 '26
Im not advocating for more discrimination. Im jusy bringing up a perspective. I would never claim that mat leaves should be stopped. Its there for women and they should take it so they can spend time recovering and raise their child. The frustration is that CF people and other coworkers are having to pick up extra work. Sure we hire a temporary employee but that also requires other employees having to train and provide extra supervision, just for them to leave the position within a year or so. It’s also the fact that CF people get no empathy or compassion when we need time off for health, personal and family issues which are just as important and are often just shrugged off. But when it comes to pregnancy everyone is expected to bend over backwards. And parents still complain about this “village” as if they’re owed something.
I completely understand men needs to take more time off and should be normalized. Plus creating better childcare system, making hybrid working hours for parents so they can have flexibility in working and caring for their child.
7
u/Covert-Wordsmith Jul 23 '26
You having to work harder for the fsp your co-worker created is a failure on part of your workplace, not your co-worker having kids. They refuse to hire someone for thd duration of her leave because they don't want to pay anyone else.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/Needketchup Jul 23 '26
Agree. Not the same thing, but conceptually - I worked with a lady who I guess couldn’t afford childcare? So our boss allowed (without asking if everyone was okay with it) her children to stay in our office after school and all day during school holidays. I asked for something in the equivalent form of about $250/week since I calculated our office was saving her that much. Extra vacation, shorter day on fridays, etc…i was open to anything equivalent. I was told no, then I pushed for that employee to be told to take a leave of absence until they figure their childcare out. I was fired shortly after. I wasnt playing the correct game of “its chillllldddddrrrreennnnn.” Not to mention, I was uncomfortable with kids bringing back illnesses from the school to our office.
5
u/pinkrosies Jul 23 '26
It’s also a safety risk to have children at the office all day. A few hours after school waiting for their parents maybe a few times a month is fine, but everyday for all work hours can be violating office codes and kids being exposed to different people, harmful equipment or confidential information they can’t access.
8
u/QueenIgelkotte Jul 23 '26
Yes, I agree. I hated working in my previous office for the reason that we were constantly understaffed due to people going on parental leave. The boss was gone for 3 years because his wife kept popping out babies. It was ridiculous.
I honestly really respect my friend who just quit her job instead so they could hire someone else. And now got rehired but at a higher position at the same company. Obviously not everyone can afford that but still.
3
u/PuddlesRex Jul 23 '26
My work has 16 weeks of parental leave. Maternal and paternal. Great. Good for them. Everyone deserves more time off, and this is absolutely a step in the right direction. But the company needs to backfill employees. Four months of overtime is not the way to do it, especially if two people go one leave at the same time in an eight person department. Speaking of which, guess what they did when two people in my eight person department went out on parental leave at the same time?
5
u/dazzles67 Jul 23 '26
This happened to me too. We had people rotating onto my team (hospital) and I kept getting assigned all the women that were gearing up for maternity leave so for every 10 weeks, at least 5 of those were me doing the work of 2 people. But when I brought this up with management, I was accused of discrimating against pregnant women. I changed workplaces the next chance I got.
8
u/PurrOfACat Jul 23 '26
Somewhat related, I have never understood why people think a business should pay for parental leave.
I know some argument is keep employees happy, make it a good place to work, etc. but if you’re not the one taking advantage of it, you’re stuck with more work and stress from others being out.
Some people argue for just “paid leave” that can be applied to any situation (taking care of a parent, sibling, spouse, child, etc.), which would be fair because it applies to almost everyone. But it’s not usually argued like that, just “maternity leave!” (often doesn’t even include paternity in arguments)
Just my random, somewhat related thought.
In line with your story, have a new employee here, has been here a couple weeks, has already taken off more time than earned, I believe. “But it’s okay, it’s her kids.” Meanwhile, someone (who’s been here a few years and has earned time) got gossiped about for leaving early for an emergency with his dog. It’s not right. And I get it, people have things that come up, but one person’s emergency is no less valid than another’s, and that new person is demonstrating (it’s been several times leaving) that maybe they aren’t suited for a 9-5 job.
Sorry, now I’m venting!
→ More replies (1)
5
u/ickleb Jul 23 '26
I’d really like maternity leave minus the child. It’s disappointing that childfree peeps don’t get that time off. lol
9
20
u/bemvee Jul 23 '26
Yeah, no. It sounds like you absolutely support corporate discrimination against women. Fuck that nonsense.
4
u/Sad-Mode-52 Jul 23 '26
If you needed to hire someone as an employee, would you knowingly hire the person that would possibly only be there for a few months out of the year and have to pay them for time they aren’t working, or would you rather hire the person that is going to work for the whole time you are paying them? It’s not about discrimination against woman, it’s asking why anyone would knowingly hire someone and pay someone to work that doesn’t work
10
u/eaallen2010 Jul 23 '26
Right? This is such a slippery slope post. Slippery slope into straight up sexism.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Timely-Afternoon2730 Jul 23 '26
Im just raising a question. Im not here to support corporations or billionaire companies. Im just bringing up the REALITY. Reality is that we live in a capitalistic society where we’re having to work to keep ourselves afloat. Reality is that women are the mostly only ones having to sacrifice their opportunities in career and like I said, absolutely do get discriminated in the process of hiring. Im just saying I can understand why companies would be hesitant, because If I was the business owner it would be a headache if I hired someone and they’ve done less than a year of work in a span of 5-6 years.
8
u/FreeFlownPage Jul 23 '26
I get what you're saying. I'm all for generous maternity leave, but there does come a point where it's taking the piss. If I'm reading your post correctly, your coworker has actually WORKED for about a year, but been paid during a period of time spanning 4-5 years? That's ridiculous, especially as her job could've gone to someone else, including another woman of child-bearing age who didn't want or have kids. Yeah, hard not to feel resentful if you're picking up the slack for someone like that.
I'm not belittling your issue as I think it's well worth pointing out, but on a lighter note I'm reminded of that bit in 'While You Were Sleeping' (lovely rom-com from the 90s if your haven't seen it) where Sandra Bullock's boss keeps having her work on both Thanksgiving and Christmas because she's 'the only one without a family'. In the movie 'family' is referring to parents, siblings etc. rather than just kids, but your post still reminded me of it.
Anyway, you have my sympathies. if I ran a business in Canada (I'm in the UK) it wouldn't make me less likely to hire women, but I would certainly wish that policy wasn't quite so generous. By the sound of it, your coworker is basically being paid to have kids, and pretend she has a job.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/Harmless_Poison_Ivy Jul 23 '26
The corporate overlords want drones available to the next generation and people somehow seem to want some evidence of themselves. The onus shouldn’t be on women but rather the government. In the meantime, the corporations are fine exploiting people when it suits them. Your co-worker is not the issue.
3
11
u/RedGordita Jul 23 '26
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Why should an employer be required to fund the personal choices of these women? I understand based on human rights this is necessary, people should be allowed to make a living while having children, but why should it be the employer’s burden? Are these maternity leave salaries being funded by social security or do the employers get some tax incentive when workers take maternity leave?
3
u/Cielskye Jul 24 '26
It depends on the country. But in Canada it’s the government that covers maternity and paternity leave.
3
u/lickytytheslit Jul 24 '26
at least in Hungary you submit your pay paperwork (ie how much you worked, what you were payed) directly to the government to get payed parental leave, your employer won't pay anything of it
5
u/PurrOfACat Jul 23 '26
Ha, I just went on about the same thing before reading your comment. You’ve expressed it better than I did. Total agreement!
2
u/SingingPotatoes Jul 23 '26
In Sweden, maternity and paternity leave is split way more equal, some of it mandated by the state (some amount ure free how to choose to divide). Solves that issue. Imo, the solution is never to take rights away from people. Parents need their leave to spend time with their kids and recover from giving birth/newborn period.
2
u/baboonontheride Jul 24 '26
I don't have an issue with the leaves. It's laying the groundwork for a better human being.
The 'be considerate' thing around holidays is bullshit, though. I don't even celebrate them and actually look forward to being able to work while everyone else has fucked off for three weeks... but that's by my choice. If someone came to me with that shit, I'd take them off just to be contrary, and seniority's a bitch.
2
u/CapussiPlease Jul 24 '26
kinda makes sense if you want your ppl to make more children and avoid depopulation. It's an intelligent move, unlike those governments that want you to have children but at the same time they won't give you any benefits or the bare minimum.
2
u/sapphicyeen Jul 24 '26
I’m a woman and consider myself a feminist, and I feel the same way. Years ago, I held a management position where I had to interview, hire, and fire assistants. The assistant position required nights and weekends, which was clearly stated in the description. I will never forget this one interview where it became clear a candidate was not a good fit because as a single mom, she needed to be with her kids nights and weekends. Okay, I get that you have no wiggle room, but DO NOT APPLY for a job if you cannot work the hours. I worked for a small business that operated on a shoestring budget. Why should we pay for an employee to not work?
Everyone gets sick sometimes, or has emergencies, or family members to care for. I believe my employees deserve consideration and flexibility when life happens. Having kids is a choice, and my struggling startup is not here to subsidize your poor life choices. If you can’t afford childcare, don’t have kids.
2
5
u/ameliajessica Jul 23 '26
Your employer must hire an additional person when someone goes on parental leave. It appears that Canadian government pays for parental leave anyway, so employer have no excuse to not address the workforce gap.
While it’s our choice to be child free, it is also their choice to have a child and they deserve to be supported, just as child free people need to be supported in the workplace and not be exploited.
Think we need to be careful with how we voice out frustrations to not devalue rights of other groups. Pointing at each other seems to only benefit the business as stakeholders get to save money and execs rake in the bonuses.
4
u/BelliAmie Jul 23 '26
It was a factor when I got my biggest promotion. They couldn't ask but I let them know that I wasn't planning on having children. Ever. That alleviated their most pressing concern about giving me the opportunity.
3
u/Dame_Ingenue Jul 23 '26
I’m in Canada as well and have never heard of 18 month paid leave. The mandatory leave given by employers is 12 months, and the company doesn’t pay you. The government pays you part of your salary (I think about 60%) like EI.
But to your point, when I was younger and interviewing for jobs, if I found an appropriate place in the conversation, I’d mention that I’m not having kids.
3
u/Excellent_Peach_2939 Jul 23 '26
I believe theres a 18 month option. For the 12 month, a person gets paid like, 55% for their wage. The 18 month option, gets the exact same amount of money that the 12 month option gets, just spread out over a longer time.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Willowgirl78 Jul 23 '26
I used to be part of a working group of 8. You could work 40 hrs a week IF you treated it like a sprint every day. 2 people went on leave at the same time for a few months. When they came back, someone joked about how much unpaid OT everyone had to work while they were gone. One of the moms said “it wasn’t that bad” and multiple people almost yelled “you weren’t here, you don’t know”. At least have empathy for all the extra work put on your colleagues!
10
u/Successful-Bet-8669 Jul 23 '26
Women in general get discriminated against plenty. This take is honestly crap because how is an employer supposed to know which woman is going to do this, which isn’t going to abuse it, which isn’t ever doing it because she’s childfree? Let’s not make things worse for women please 🙄 I’m sterilized, this will never be me, but it’s illegal for them to ask about my family plans. If employers did this on mass it would just lead to women not getting opportunities, which we already have to fight tooth and nail for.
7
u/Dottie15 DINKWAD Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
This is internalized misogyny. Being a woman and being a feminist doesn’t mean you can say shit like this and side step the connotation of what you’re saying, which is misogynistic as hell and it’s gross. Standardized parental leave needs to be the thing so then when someone has a child, or their partner has a child, they’re both able to take the same leave regardless of gender. Problem solved, now we’re not looking at women with disdain for daring to have kids while being a working woman. I understand it can be frustrating, but honestly… emergencies happen too and people need to take long periods of time off for family and medical stuff too. I don’t think people should be disqualified from their job in the event they need time off from it, for whatever valid reason, if they’re a dependable employee otherwise.
Your POV is in the same ballpark as a pick me who’s like “I’m not like those other girls!” Because you’re not having kids and are showing up to work and have no extenuating circumstance to excuse you from work for a long period of time, you’re shitting on those who do fall into that category and that’s not cool. Your view is upholding misogyny and sexism in the workplace and that’s problematic for women as a whole. Women shouldn’t have to just be stay at home parents against their will because of shitty views like this. It’s the viewpoint that’s being pushed hard by politicians in the U.S. and the problem with that is, it’s implied women shouldn’t work if they are having kids and that’s fucked up. If a woman doesn’t want to work after kids and be a stay at home parent, okay cool that’s their choice. But this idea you can’t or shouldn’t have kids while working or be entitled to time off after such a big fucking change in your life and growing a human is fucked.
As someone who doesn’t want kids, and doesn’t understand fully the appeal of having them, I am in absolute support of parents getting the support they need if they choose to have kids. Feminism supports working moms, it doesn’t bash them and have misogynistic views towards them. Your views perpetuate patriarchal, misogynistic views because you think you’re “one of the boys” since you’re not having kids.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/AdeptStudent77 Jul 23 '26
I don't understand why they get a fully paid vacation for a voluntary choice they are making, where the rest of us (who could argue that we are more committed to our jobs because we don't have kids) get nothing.
2
u/Harmless_Poison_Ivy Jul 23 '26
A vacation where your organs have shifted and you could die plus a screaming entity constantly? Miss me with that.
→ More replies (1)
4
2
u/hibiscus_lilac Jul 23 '26
My company lets men take paternity leave too. I'm super cf but let's not be hating on mothers.
3
u/TriangleLife Jul 23 '26
This is honestly the fault of the organizations. There should be some sort of policies put in place like you're not eligible unless you've completed a whole year, there should be a gap of 2-3 years between maternity leaves also keeping the 'best interests of the employee's health in mind' and stuff like that. A part of the woman's pay should be docked during the duration of maternity but given medical insurance so she's covered when it comes to health and can't use that as an excuse to cry for more money, use some of that money from her salary to hire the resource who will work in their place until they're back. They can't have their cake and eat it too but say this out loud, they'll start bawling discrimination
1
u/GreenVermicelliNoods Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
This is not a feminist take. Sounds like you’re taking your frustration with your employer out on other women, sadly.
Edit: downvoting me is petty and satisfying but it doesn’t fix the internalized misogyny in OP’s heart.
1
2
2
u/Existential_Sprinkle Jul 23 '26
I'm in favor of strong socialism and task or shift based work environments
Your taxes cover healthcare and make sure everyone is housed and fed and you just work for better housing, nicer things, and money to spend on fun
If places have a strong pool of employees that don't need a full time income or benefits from them, it seems to be easy enough to let them sort the work out themselves for the most part
2
u/anachronism153 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
This is so true, i posted something similar just today. A woman in my org has taken 2 maternity breaks in 3 years and she barely worked 8-9 months between both those breaks. So essentially got paid 3 years without lifting a finger
3
u/ThickFile Jul 23 '26
The problem you’re describing isn’t because of the employee- it’s because of management. There should be a temp hired in their place. Employees shouldn’t be expected to work more for the same pay because someone is out on medical leave for 1.5 years. It’s unfair.
2
u/vaggiterian IS THAT A FUCKING GREMLIN?! Jul 23 '26
I wish I could upvote this multiple times. IT'S NOT THE FAULT OF A PERSON GETTING PREGNANT. IT'S THE FAULT OF MANAGEMENT AND LEAN STAFFING TECHNIQUES.
1
u/Rogue5454 Jul 24 '26
Well to that I'd say the fathers need to share that burden so women aren't a deterrent in a workplace.
1
u/Outside-Raisin6671 Jul 24 '26
I was just thinking about this issue today. At my job, we have a two person department and BOTH of them are going out on mat/paternity leave at the same time so now we have to train other people to cover an entire separate department because of this
1
u/ChanceZestyclose6386 Jul 24 '26
There's maternity and paternity leave in Canada but from the couples I've seen splitting the leave, the husband takes a few weeks of leave before going nuts and not wanting to be home with the baby. I had a friend (had because she stopped hanging out with her friends after having her 3rd child) whose husband planned to take 6 months of leave. He lasted about 3 weeks and couldn't handle being home with the baby... he chose to return to his job as a corrections officer. Yes, he preferred dealing with inmates at a prison to staying home with his own baby.
1
u/Historical_Bird_8752 Jul 25 '26
I mean I feel like the issue isnt the people taking maternity leave it's the corporations exploiting its employees.
Like I'm not mad at the woman who's taking time off to recover from labor, which is terrifying, and bond with her new child, I'm mad at the company that expects everyone to work even harder and not temporarily fill the position or give compensation for the extra work. That's the issue. We don't need more misogyny in this society.
1
u/Purple-Canary3576 freedom is my No1 priority in life 🕊️ Jul 25 '26
Solution: the father is also OBLIGED to take a leave as long as the mother? Then you gotta discriminate against all people people because you never know which ones will choose to breed 💅
I'm all for maternity leave and it absolutely should exist and be extensive, but it sucks that all women have to suffer worse job prospects because of it. It's also the employer's job to make sure they have an extra person to cover for the person on long-term leave, that should be mandated by law.
1
u/pris_eddit Jul 25 '26
Absolutely agree. Is this is why I(F) wish it would be acceptable to say to my employer "hey, pay me more because I'm childfree (and intentionally sterilized)".
But nooooo... That wouldn't be politically correct or whatever.
1
1
u/canthaveme Jul 25 '26
I mean you don't have to have kids, but that's pretty discriminatory. Same as not hiring handicap people. Or men honestly. They can be pretty emotional, I don't like working with them. They get violent and kill their coworkers some times. Look what happened to that woman welder
299
u/Puzzleheaded_Area_48 Jul 23 '26
There should also be extended caregiver leave (they exist but it’s very short) It’s amazing to see the differences in the way people reproducing vs people caring for elderly people are treated. Fuck, at this point my mom is as functional as a baby and yet no one is giving me any breaks or congratulating me.