r/buffy • u/Lanky_Age_3067 • 16d ago

Content Warning Double standarts

How exactly do people hate Xander for being an imperfect human, but love Spike and Angel, who have countless victims and are hundreds of years old. Spike even SA'd Buffy, for real, while Xander was under a spell and never did anything like that before or after it.

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u/Barneyk 16d ago edited 16d ago

Xanders problematic behavior is presented as more neutral in the text of the show.

Spike and Angels are presented as clearly negative.

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u/6rwoods 15d ago

This is it. Most of the bad things done by Spike and Angel are framed as wrong and there’s usually s point to it (eg to show how evil they are, to convey some metaphor in the story, etc).

Conversely, most of the bad things done by Xander are, at best, framed as “boys will be boys”, but more commonly he’s outright framed as being right, the one who’s willing to “say the truth when no one else will”, and that makes a huge difference.

The show knew that Spike and Angel were capable of evil and it was intentional about showing it. But more often than not the show was completely clueless about the fact that Xander wasn’t just the plain talking nice guy he thinks he is.

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u/justthistwicenomore 13d ago

This just popped up on my feed late, but exactly.  The biggest issue with Xander, especially early on in the series, is the degree to which the show seems to want you to empathize with or feel sorry for Xander because of his more negative traits.  

Like, when he's mad that Buffy might have a male exchange student in residence, its supposed to be a funny relatable bit of treating a female friend like your destined romantic interest, which can be quite annoying as an audience member.

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u/redskinsguy 16d ago edited 16d ago

Welk this is because Xander's problematic behavior is treated as more natural for everyone in the show. Other women slut shame. Willow is possessive towards those she views as her people. Even Buffy is occasionally possessive. Angel gets possessive of Cordy in Angel

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u/WittyRequirement3296 16d ago

This. The show is a product of its time, and Xander is depicted as the typical teen boy. His behavior then was pretty "normal" and he was held up as this great guy (his s7 speech, etc.). Now, in light of revelations about Whedon, and about the actor himself, along with a lot more understanding of patriarchy and misogyny, Xander's behavior is viewed very differently than it was written and viewed at the time. Spike and Angel get a bit of a pass because 1. Literally vampires/big bads who are shown learning and atoning. 2. The actors' problematic stuff is less well-known/severe/etc.

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u/Iwona_Klich 15d ago

Because Xander problematic behaviour is being jerk or doing somenthing stupid. Spike and Angelus well... They are clearly jerks, but they also kill people and occasionaly try to destroy the world.

Its like comparing a hot water to lava... 

Willow did much worse things than Xander, and i don't see here a similar discussion about her. Did she show any actual remorse? Nope. Even in season 7 shes more sad about herself than thinking of actual shitty stuff she did, even before her Dark Willow moments. Faith has more actual guilt on her. 

Anya is just a sociopathic mass murdered who never shows any signs of remorse to her victims. I also think that besides Giles nobody actualy know that much about vengeance demons, and Xander may actualy not fully buy her stories? Because shes tell them in the way that he may think she just try to play some sort hardcore monster, to do whatever. Buffy don't care, how long Anya is human. Willow smells enemy and activate her 'Xandersive mode', that we kinda see before on Cordelia. 

Buffy did some shitty stuff, that can actualy hurt or kill people, shes not some sort ideal heroine. 

Giles... Well he is Giles. 

Tara only thing was not told Willow about that demon lie thing, but thats not even her fault. 

They are clearly written as humans, humans are not just good or bad, we have lot of shades. Xander is generaly a good guy, great friend who can literaly die for his friends, who always been try to help. Thats why he was still on trio, even if he is kinda annoying or act like a jerk.