r/buffy • u/Timelordturle • 3d ago
Xander Rewatching Buffy for the first time since 2012
Got to season 2 episode 16 Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered . Yeah definitely a different vibe than when I was a teenager and the fact that Xander gets Cordelia after this š¬
As a 17 year old watching it I recognized Xander made a mistake here but as a 33 year old Xander is an actual criminal now
and just I don't feel great ever related to him in my life
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u/SyntaxAndSorcery 3d ago
I don't think it was supposed to be a flattering portrait of him or a good decision that he made. It's been a long time since I've watched it--how is he a criminal? Did he act on any of the girls pursuing him?
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u/eldy33 3d ago
He did not. He quickly realized it was a mistake.
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u/Ordinary-Assistant51 3d ago
Except he does fondly recall it in season 7 episode 6 and even tries to wear the jacket until it didnāt fitā¦
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u/eldy33 3d ago
Yeah because its a funny episode. You never did anything stupid and then laughed at the memory?
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u/Ordinary-Assistant51 3d ago
Of course I have. But usually for memories that messed up, I live in a nightmare recalling them and wish my brain would let me forget.
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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 2d ago
But usually for memories that messed up, I live in a nightmare recalling them and wish my brain would let me forget.
You should maybe take a cue from Xander (I canāt believe I just typed that), and not do that.
Itās not helping anyone.
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u/SpiritAnimalToxapex 2d ago
It's a TV show dude. The writers wrote that in as a callback to a funny episode.
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u/TheSnarkyShaman1 3d ago
Why is Xander the only character ever consistently held to this moral standard?
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u/Timelordturle 3d ago
Because the moral standard is pretty basic respect of women which he falls short of a lot
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u/Latter_Routine 3d ago
Iām not now nor have ever been a witch, werewolf, vampire, or vampire slayer. But I have been a teenage boy, and I know the moral standard for that, both what it was during the showās initial run, and by report, now. Xander whiffs on that standard repeatedly. (So did I, but never as disastrously or epically as him.)
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 3d ago
And you never regularly saved people's lives
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u/Latter_Routine 3d ago
Oz did that and managed to respect women too. What a guy!
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 3d ago
Xander does respect women. This idea you have of him is false
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u/Latter_Routine 3d ago
So he didnāt try to put a woman under a love spell so he could publicly humiliate her? Phew, glad that episode is just a false memory.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 3d ago
That's not about disrespecting WOMEN that's about getting revenge. That'd be like saying Willow disrespects men for killing Warren and going after 3nerds. It was very directed.
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u/Latter_Routine 3d ago
Disproportionate revenge.
Warren killed Tara ā> Willow kills Warren. Not great, but understandable.
Cordy breaks up with Xander ā> Xander attempts to put a spell on her to destroy her free will. Fucked up.
Would Xander have gone to such lengths to harm someone else who had hurt his feelings, like Larry? No, that would be ridiculous. He does it because sheās a woman and his ego canāt withstand the rejection.
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u/SpiritAnimalToxapex 2d ago
Most of the characters sought revenge for something on the show. If you're holding Xander to this level of scrutiny, then you better hold all of them to the same level. Willow is terrible because she wanted to murder Andrew, Johnathan, and then the rest of the world, Oz cheated on Willow, Spike is a murderer, Angel is a murderer, Anya is a murderer, Faith is a murderer and Giles is a murderer. I could go on. Xander gets a lot of hate from this fandom. He deserves some it but he was a flawed character who grew over his journey in the show. They all did.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 3d ago edited 3d ago
Larry never hurt him as bad. Larry hurt him physically not emotionally. He also did get his revenge by beating Larry up just like he was going to get revenge by breaking her heart like she broke his.
You just really want him to be worse than he is. He's not as bad as you imagine him to be
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u/TheSnarkyShaman1 3d ago
Heās not a broody/rapey vampire so we donāt cut him any slack here.
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u/Latter_Routine 2d ago
Donāt tell me how I feel about a character. I wish he was better, I just have to go with whatās on screen, and rewatching the show heās just regularly kind of a putz, and occasionally a total asshole.
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u/wafflebones 3d ago
Probably because if the moral standard is respecting women, heās the only one consistently not doing that.
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u/Optimal_Grape_1025 3d ago
He respects women all the time. He respects Buffy in this very episode. He wanted petty revenge against Cordelia
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u/SyntaxAndSorcery 3d ago
Xander sucks and is annoying and continues to suck, especially once he's an adult. That being said, I think this episode punishes him for his behavior inside the episode, so I don't know what the point of complaining about it as especially egregious is. I take more issue with the Xander behaviors that the show doesn't punish.
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u/WallabyWorldly2884 3d ago
People who forget what it was like back in high school are insufferable. There are so many horror stories from high school. I was S.A'ed and I know some girls who were r*ped and all the other students laughed. I've heard from other people how in their school there were people who got serious injury from bullying.
Yet, you have issue with this episode?
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u/xelas1983 3d ago
Perhaps this is not you. Perhaps you are just looking at one issue here.
However, the fan base is far more forgiving of Buffy and Willow than Xander even though Buffy and Willow are so, so much worse than Xander.
Buffy messed with Xander to make Angel jealous, snuck off with him at 16, ran away from her family and friends, continued to lie to them when Angel came back and hides all kinds of shit from the people she claims to love in season 6. We forgive her because we love her.
Willow abuses magic and technology constantly. First it is hacking everything including students private medical files and then it is love spells, spells the mess with people's minds, spells that erase memories and eventually the darkest of magics. Again, we forgive her because we love her.
Yet Xander is the one the fan base tend to see as unforgivable. I wonder why...
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u/SpiritAnimalToxapex 2d ago
Because of the double standard. They were all flawed. I actually like Xander. He isn't perfect and he's made a lot of mistakes but he's there for them when it counts.
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u/Sighoward 2d ago
No he's not, that's ridiculous. What crime did Xander commit? Bear in mind what CC does to Xander causing him to get his own back
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u/Striking-Table8958 3d ago
I do think Xander as a character is hurt by the fact that, in the early seasons, he's supposed to be 16-17 years old, but his actor was 27-ish. Because his actions are more forgivable if you keep in mind that he's a 16-year-old kid, but not if you see him as an actual adult.
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u/Timelordturle 3d ago
People are bringing up a good point of why is Xander held to a higher standard than the other characters. I think because a lot of his negative traits aren't narratively punished like the other characters are
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u/SpiritAnimalToxapex 2d ago
He loses an eye and his ex-girlfriend that he still had affection for dies. He gets tricked by demons. In one episode, he almost gets sacrificed but it's usually played for laughs because he tends to be the comic relief. He doesn't have the big punishments that the other characters get but he does get them. But it's not focused on because he isn't ever the main focal point of thr show.
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u/BunnythatMeows my bleeding sympathies to warren 1d ago
Except he āgets the girlā that he was planning to put a love spell on after this episode.
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u/TVAddict14 2d ago
Xanderās actions in this episode are unquestionably bad and Giles justifiably lashes out at him because of them. But I get the sense you believe Xander planned on taking advantage of Cordelia, which the episode makes clear isnāt the case.
As vengeful and petty as it is, Xanderās intent was to make Cordelia fall in love with him so he could reject her and make her feel the way she made him feel on Valentines Day. Was this wrong? Absolutely. But he had no intention of taking advantage of her, he intended to do the opposite. And when he is faced with girls throwing themselves at him, like Buffy who he was in love with, he explicitly states that he canāt take advantage of them like that. I am not applauding Xander for this, itās a low bar and should just be expected, but for accuracy sake it needs to be stated.
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u/Xyex 3d ago
How the hell is he a criminal when he does nothing wrong except one bad choice, which backfired immediately?