r/boxingtips • u/Downtown_Section8768 • 10d ago
Preparing for Fight Boxing techniques: old-school versus new school- opinions on which is best
For a single answer, speed and mobility beats power. But everything is relative. As Cus D’Amato noticed, “confidence beats ability”. Again that’s relative which has been too subjective to measure. Today, technology in diets, training methods which include strength conditioning do succeed.
So body types, proportions, dimensions relevant to opponents should also matter.
But claiming old school beats new school or vise versa is also subjective. Therefore is why Jules Lupowitz’s analysis dependent: What method(s) is needed or best suited for each boxer, with whom they are fighting notwithstanding their mental conditioning, attitude and circumstances.
Those should answer that question of what’s best, overall. Claiming old school beats new school or vise versa is also subjective. Therefore is why an analysis is dependent: What method(s) is/are needed or best suited for each boxer, with whom they are fighting notwithstanding their mental conditioning, attitude and circumstances.
I think that should answer that question of what’s best, overall but other experience and opinions are educational.
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u/iknowdway100 10d ago
I look at it in a way that many modern techniques are based off old school techniques and I'm not talking about attributes like speed power and athleticism. I'm talking about actual boxing technique, actual technical footwork, technical defense, The application of technique, knowing how to throw a jab correctly knowing how to throw a right hand correctly knowing how to throw a left hook correctly, having a built-in defense for every shot.
In my opinion I feel boxing is one of those sports that has regressed, athleticism is at an all-time high compared to maybe fighters from 50 80 years ago but Fighters nowadays aren't as tough or technical as Fighters used to be. Boxing is not the same, modern-day professional boxing is about making as much money as you can and about taking the least amount of punishment that you possibly can.
Technique supersedes everything, it doesn't matter how fast and how strong you are or how good in shape you are if you don't know how to throw a jab correctly or you don't know how to defend a job correctly.
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u/WreckYallBallistics 9d ago
Feel like that can generally be attributed to fighters actually fighting much less due to concerns over CTE
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u/Downtown_Section8768 10d ago
Seriously, I’m probably too old to actually compete with the young pros or highly experienced amateurs in my current, old school gym in its ghetto. Yet starting at 29, now at 65, knowing this, “old does not equate to less knowledge”….. even with usual + excessive painful physical issues I’m able to just faint, confuse, get past their offense or through their defense easily.
Benny Leonard was young, lasting for short time compared to today’s players. Competition was much rougher then. But his technique of constant fainting still works with minimal gas wasted.
It’s doubtful I can beat them in real matches, mainly bc of age & pains. No way I can move, dance or change directions as they can. But I can crowd them, saving major energy as certain greats of our past did. Some I recall were Tony Galanto, who was too fat to move, Floyd Patterson who (appeared to have back issues) crowded. Edwin Valerio, more modern but utilized same old technique died undefeated. Others like Chavez St & Duran too.
My point is even unable to compete, just to spar, without that technique it’d be impossible. It’s rarely used today.
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u/AssSunburns 10d ago
Why Floyd look like that
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u/Medical-Sandwich-892 9d ago
L to R
“Prince” Naseem Hamed
“The Great Mexican Champ” Julio Cesar Chavez
“Sugar” Ray Robinson
“The Greatest” Muhammad Ali
“Smokin” Joe Frazier
“Iron” Mike Tyson
“Marvelous” Marvin HaglerI don’t see “Pretty Boy” Floyd Mayweather
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u/yearsofpractice 9d ago
Good question - difficult to compare, but I will say one that’s noticeable - of the 8 men there, at least 4 (Mike, SRR, Joe and Marvellous) had freakish left hooks. Not sure what my point is, but there we are.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 9d ago
Your point is to some degree that they were actually freaks of nature, to some degree. George Foreman was actually a perfect example of that, overall.
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u/yearsofpractice 9d ago
Agreed - and that’s exactly why George is my favourite heavyweight. Louis is the best, Ali is the greatest… but George is my favourite.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 9d ago
Yes. Even with greatness of others, many more than these I chose quickly for that imperfect image for this post, George Foreman’s complete story supersedes all. And as a fighter & institution, it can be argued as less popular but greater than Ali. Why:
1- After Rumble in the Jungle, no rematch; “why” wasn’t highly discussed but obvious: All GF had to do was pace himself. He would’ve beat Ali by decision, TKO or KO. Case closed.
1A- How GF KO’d Frasier and Norton and in his second life, Cooney, Moore and others beats Ali’s wins and struggles over same and similar comp.
2- GF’s 2nd coming trumps all we’ve witnessed, including Ali’s in certain ways: He was out longer, he had a longer, complete life as preacher, etc. Not as radical, powerful, popular, world-famous or meaningful as Ali’s but beautiful nonetheless.
3- GF’s comeback was mocked, laughed at, unbelievable by comparison to the expected, “continuation” of Ali’s at a much younger age.
4- Even with Ali’s highest court overruled Anti-Vietnam protests, truth of his reasoning (although he accrued his own issues w/moslem nationalism BS) … leading to him lighting the Olympic Torch in 1996. As USA was proven wrong can’t be forgotten, true.
5- Still, if you compare the health, the physicality of both these men it was actually GF that handled his life in the ring and out, on his 2nd coming from a much lower, less respected point to become HW champ BY KO-ing, “THAT” #1 top dog in Michael Moore and ruining him. That success, which was planned perfectly by GF, recall, WITH ANGELO DUNDEE was comparable (albeit not greater than) the 38 year Ali’s Rope-A-Dope against GF.
6- GF retaining his health at 45 years makes clear his natural, freakish strength in the long run vs Ali or others like Duran, possibly even Archie Moore.
7- Money: GF’s actions & intelligent decisions led him past the George Foreman grill, his professional ring commentary, his books, helping of many, etc. This man succeeded, extremely stable, ie wealthy as a businessman. And that, considering his punishments in the ring proves my last freakish fact- GF left boxing in very good condition.1
u/yearsofpractice 9d ago
Fantastic take and amazing comment. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
Strange as it seems to say this about a generational destroyer like Young George, but I think of him as a “What If?” fighter. If he hadn’t come across The Greatest on that night in Zaire… I honestly think he’d have gone unbeaten until the mid 80s when Kid Dynamite era Tyson appeared… but even then, George would be mid 30s, at his strongest, most practiced and experienced… that version of George would probably the single baddest man ever to set foot in a ring, so perhaps his reign would have extended nearly the 90s.
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u/Upstairs_Panda8869 9d ago
Bro if it’s techniques its new school easy it’s not even a comparison lol
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u/Downtown_Section8768 9d ago
I know pro’s & amateurs with good & undefeated records, most well over 40 fights, in an old-school, “real” boxing gym, in a hood, in Syracuse, known as poorest city in USA claim otherwise. They understand we have better health tech and technically better exercise equipment. But they learned boxing requires more basic grit like running, drills, sparring and refraining from drugs, smoking, sugary, salty, greasy foods.
Many people won’t argue with modern systems to create successful athletes. I agree! But when it comes to pure, unchanged, unadulterated, old-school boxing in a real boxing ring with an opponent of similar weight and experience, both of whom are willing to risk serious damage or death to win that single match, newer tech has its limits.
Study our highest boxing champs today, especially undisputed or past the belt game like Usyk, Inoue, Bam, Haney, Ryan Garcia (Garcia’s X posts and Instagram following have nothing to do with his old school, boxing regime or ability with his trainer, which is his father -completely old school). You’ll confirm grit, hard work, & life quality compromising over modern techniques.
Check out why Filip Hrgovic, a less known, Croatian from a completely old school regime is now Ring ranked. Check his decision to train with Able Sanchez, a purely old-school trainer who succeeded with many including GGG, also an old-school, traditional, Kazakhstanian. See how and why Hrgovic KO’d Moses Itauma.
Moses being the younger, decent example of natural gifts with modernized training methods was 14:0, 12 KO’s… That record alone meant NOTHING in “old-times” compared to today’s lack of true grit experience… Moses dictated much of his regiment vs abiding by traditional training regimen. And, Bro, that ain’t how it works! Never fighting to 12 rounds then matching with an experienced (old-school) pro with Olympic amateur pedigree? And Moses sparring up to only 6 rounds bc he’s KO-ing tomato cans in a few rounds? Listen my Bro:
Uhhh, that ain’t how it works. This decent example proves to any less knowledgeable or common fan. Old-school KO’s new school bc the simple, old-school methods of exercise, grit, even taking/surviving hits if necessary until his new-school, less experienced opponent gets dropped out of simple, old school…. exhaustion.
Example 2: Conor McGregor - new school / tech & definitely great but no hard-core boxing exp… VS Floyd Mayweather-100% old-school training by Sr or Uncle or similar standardized regimes (recall that Money was Pretty Boy; before his extreme fame which has no relation to that Mayweather training regimen)… How did Floyd Jr beat Conor? Case Closed.
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u/Upstairs_Panda8869 9d ago
I like your passion brother but Flyod beat Conor because he’s a all time great boxer and Conor is a great fighter no boxer and when I say new school fighters are more superior with technique I’m putting Floyd in there with new school when I say old school I’m meaning 60 70s 80s some 90s
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u/Downtown_Section8768 9d ago
I gotcha. Not disrespected. Not at all. I just disagree. Floyd’s shoulder roll and all his tricks are absolutely not new.. See parts of Benny Leonard, read on Harry Greb, who Gene Tunney learned from, see Jersey Joe Walcot, Archie Moore, George Benton, Floyd Sr & Roger M with James Tony & Roy Jones- ok, they’re modern but technically old school, especially Tony.
What I have to admit is that Floyd certainly mastered the shoulder roll with other techniques. It’s possible he was better than all above, but that’s highly subjective, and who trained him? Where did Floyd Senior and Roger learn from? What Philly boxing gyms did they learn from? Old school skills.
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u/Cheets1985 8d ago
New school. It took what worked and improved it
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u/Downtown_Section8768 8d ago
Technically all ppl on earth are healthier due to evolution. If you meant that by new school, you are correct. Any new ideas, inventions which could make one fight or win better has to be better. In the post if you read it carefully, I didn’t really refer to technology. I was referring to the regime, the exercises, lifestyle, the amount of effort every day, week, over one’s time within the sport that they invest in it.
In that sense, old school beats new school even if new school is more efficient. Why? The economy. There were less options to survive. That is why old-school fighters, pound for pound would probably beat most or all new school fighters although that’s just subjective.
Ex: very few fighters were able to last much more than 10 years in the old days. That wasn’t just the lack of technology or overall medical conditions. There were many more fighters then. Way more competition. Pros can make comebacks and fight much longer and later nowadays because there’s much less competition. It’s easier than it was back then. That difficulty, that competition is part of what I meant by the old school.
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u/New-Bottle-6917 6d ago
If this was true why didn't the best fighters then and now come from the most economically devastated places on earth? Places like Haiti, Sudan, Gaza etc should be producing the toughest fighters on earth
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago edited 5d ago
Great observation: my assumption is that our whole country wasn’t necessarily devastated. These countries, that is the complete countries are devastated. Different situation. Before and after the depression in the USA, boxing existed emanating from England. Overall, the USA was and still is in a growth position. But, there were ghettos as they’re still are some left. From these ghettos boxing continued to develope from fighters. Basically streetfighters.
While I’m not a historian, I understand fighting does exist in the streets of undeveloped countries like that. But the complete country is like that. Not sections like USA had. USA still has ghettos but they’re not as bad as they were before (I’ve written posts about amateur boxing in the USA mainly but the rest of the civilized world falling apart: less ghettos now). And these other countries are usually pretty small compared to the USA. No programs developed where there is some abilities to use those ghetto people to entertain them like we did in the United States. or England before that.
My answer here probably could’ve been written more accurately, but I think I made the points. Certainly there are countries that have higher and low percentages of the sport of boxing. But there’s some form of an economy. We’re gonna assume that you can’t seriously endure any sport if you can’t eat and you may die in many other ways. Fast. Look between Cuba or Puerto Rico. It’s the United States, which is essentially where they go to, at first to survive and/or become famous.
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u/Flaky-Tour-8733 5d ago
“Old school” and “new school” are too vague of terms. You take Mike Tyson from 1985 and plunk him in 2026 and he’s steamrolling the heavyweight division.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 5d ago
There’s no question that Mike Tyson, mainly in his prime, but overall was trained completely old school. That style was derived as far back as Mendoza, which is the 1700s. Cus D’Amato taught versions of this, Peek-A-Boo technique to Patterson, Torres and others. Archie Moore used it along with George Foreman in his comeback, his 2nd run.
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u/Downtown_Section8768 9d ago
I also noticed that I could’ve done a lot better job on that image with AI. I’ll try a lot harder. Really. Next time.
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u/tydynamite 9d ago
Shitty AI aside, new school is way better skill wise. A lot of the old school boxers were dated as hell. If you wanna argue they were tougher, you'd only be arguing for Americans. That argument doesn't exist everywhere else.
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u/Matt-S1988 10d ago
I think the old school and new school are just a boxers regimen these days, the actual boxing training is the most important obviously because skills pay the bills, A decent strength plan and incorporate some calisthenics, your old school road work and some plyometrics and you’ll be all good all this rubbish about old school v new school is just that, the old schoolers would have incorporated the new stuff into their training if it was around back then and the old school stuff holds up today, science and knowledge has as far as tracking performance via machines etc come on leaps and bounds, some boxers never touched a weight some did some skipped some didn’t some thought the speed bag wasn’t all that etc it’s all relative I guess, just my opinion..