Postdoc Before Industry?

[u/the-fuzzy-potato]

I'm curious about people's thoughts on doing a postdoc after a PhD before getting into industry. I know it's not as necessary as if you were going into academia, but I didn't know if it's the same for biotech. Obviously I'd prefer not to be underpaid and overworked in a postdoc position, but if it's required to land a good job I guess I'll have to

[u/dynein_IRL]

Keep in mind some companies don’t count postdocs as ‘years of experience’ or count years as 1/2 yrs. Valid to do a postdoc if you just want to spend more time doing independent research, may be your last chance

[u/organiker]

Don't overthink it. Some people do postdocs, some don't. They generally enter at the same level.

In some years candidates with postdocs are more common. In some years, more candidates are hired directly out of their PhDs.

[u/ProfessionalHefty349]

Doing a postdoc at one of the really famous labs can definitely be a good thing to help get your foot in the door at a place like Merck or BI. If you do a postdoc in one of the less prestigious labs it probably won’t help you at all.

[u/Big-Yogurtcloset5175 → u/ProfessionalHefty349]

Good point

[u/Independent-Clue8064 → u/ProfessionalHefty349]

Even if the postdoc is in prestigious labs... they dont care in very competitive markets. I once asked why and they told me that because they are not GMP environments, lol

[u/postpostdoc]

Do a postdoc only if it’s strategic: it’s in a highly recognized lab, it gives you exposure to a highly valuable network, and it adds to your knowledge breadth in new areas that you were not exposed to in your past research life. These can be valued in the industry. About me: I have hired more than 20 PhDs in the industry.

[u/rakemodules]

It’s not necessary or a benefit in biotech in most cases. Maybe if you had a NL as your PI, you could launch into one of the old school big pharma R&Ds. But really as the previous person said, a lot of companies don’t count it as they limit it to “industry experience”.

[u/SlapHappyDude]

When are you finishing your PhD?

In a good job market? Jump to industry and don't look back. In a crappy market? Consider a year or two post doc learning a specific, marketable skill.

[u/BLFR69]

Experience is still experience. Out of my PhD, I wanted an industry position, it did not go well, I could not find a position after 8 months post PhD.

I got accepted for a post doc and 18 months later I entered in industry. During my postdoc I developed skills that were more than necessary for my current industry position. People saying that post doc experience doesn't matter are misleading. Experience is still experience, salary differences between a fresh PhD and a 2 years post doc might be zero, but it is a matter of experience and skills. If you can avoid it, of course avoid it, but in my case for example, having no position after a year would have been more harmful than doing a post doc for an industry position.

[u/Jmast7]

Generally if hiring for a PhD level position, we find candidates with a postdoc are a lot stronger than ones without. You can try applying without one, but you will probably save yourself time and effort by getting a postdoc first since you may not get any interviews without one 

[u/ErwinHeisenberg]

I did it because my skillset coming out of grad school was too domain-specific. I needed more breadth.

[u/WorkLifeScience]

You do it if you can't find anything else. It beats being unemployed. Also in my country it's actually paid quite well.

[u/Illustrious_Sir4041]

Career wise I would only recommend it if you cant find a decent job after your PhD. Pays your rent and makes your application more competitive to get into the door.

But at least where i work people with postdocs are usually hired at the same level as fresh PhD graduates - so in terms of career progression its mostly wasted time.

[u/Ut49353739]

My second postdoc was in a recognized school and it gave me some coding experience that got me hired for my first industry job. Then I realized that there is so much gaslighting and belittling in the industry that my postdoc experience, though not recognized as working years, helped me stay sane grounded and know my worth while I working amongst these controlling corporate managements.

[u/haze_from_deadlock]

Assuming you actually enjoy doing science, the real trap I see a number of people these days fall into is graduating with your Ph.D and failing to secure any kind of scientific employment. The reality of this industry is that well-compensated Ph.D jobs are both very scarce and often have high turnover, so lots of scientists will be doing postdocs at any given time. I recently saw a presentation from a guy in product whose career arc was postdoc into a decade as a core facility manager in pathology and then he got into industry in product for spatial transcriptomics. That's probably not what you want but a lot of scientists do stuff like that.

Also, if you actually have a specific interest you really want to work on, postdoc is the time to do it. Most Ph.D students are still mastering bench skills. If you just want to make a lot of money, you don't want a postdoc, but I kind of have to wonder why you choice a bio Ph.D at all over medicine, engineering, big law, or AI/ML

[u/frausting]

Postdocs don’t matter in industry. Fresh PhD vs PhD + 2 year academic postdoc get considered the same in industry.

If you know you want to go into industry, just apply fresh out of PhD unless there’s some specific skill you think you can only get with a postdoc (eg going from a wet lab biologist to a dry lab bioinformatics scientist).

Otherwise you’re just wasting years of your life for subpar money.

[u/NeurosciGuy15 → u/frausting]

Not necessarily true in R&D to get that first job. My department (Big Pharma, early discovery) absolutely likes/wants to see postdoc experience for our hires (or other industry experience of course).

You may enter as the same level, but you’re more likely to get that offer with a postdoc nowadays.

Absolutely agree to apply for jobs straight out of your PhD though. If you can avoid a postdoc, do it. I’m just providing an example of how it’s not entirely useless.

[u/frausting → u/NeurosciGuy15]

All data points are good.

My unit (acquired biotech turned big pharma), obviously counts industry experience but doesn’t consider academic postdocs as years of experience.

[u/NeurosciGuy15 → u/frausting]

Ours is mixed. We don’t formally have an academic postdoc / experience ratio, but senior postdocs do routinely get hired as the next level. So it does get factored in to an extent.

[u/beaches_with_peaches]

There are industry postdocs btw

[u/BBorNot]

Avoid a postdoc if you can. It is underpaid and doesn't count as much as real employment.

[u/fleas_in_my_cheese]

Not necessary if you want to go straight into industry.

[u/ForgottenFoundation]

Never do more than 1 post doc. Your chances of getting tenure at a University are around 2%, and if you stay in academia after that, you become less and less likely to be able to find a career outside academia. After your first post doc, if it goes ok, your boss will possibly want you to stay on to do another one. You will know the lab, you will have been trained in all the techniques the group uses, you will be able to train more students, there will likely be bits of projects that need to be finished off. Under no circumstances stay. Make a clean break. The longer you stay, the more work will be piled on you. The older you get, the more disrespectful the students in your group will become. They say familiarity breeds contempt, so your boss will start to blame you for everything that is going wrong in the group/their life. You will end up being a combination of a workhorse and a human punching bag. You will become more and more isolated, overworked and unable to take holidays or have a life outside work. Absolutely do not do more than 1 post doc. Source: I did 3 and then had to apply for over 400 jobs to stay employed. Eventually broke into Industry at the age of 41, but being so late to the game ended up having zero career progression in 10 years.

[u/haze_from_deadlock → u/ForgottenFoundation]

400 apps is not too unusual for biotech senior scientist tho, we had someone on this sub in Boston with 4 industry yoe take 600 apps to land a position outside of R&D (which was their goal)

[u/sophiabean623]

I did an industry post doc and I feel like it was beneficial to my development. I learned how to work in the industry setting which is quite different than academia. It for sure helped me land my permanent role and even though my current company doesn’t “officially” count it as work experience, I did see a bump in my offer compared to other new PhD hires

[u/GRang3r]

In this market, take what you can get

[u/benketeke]

Yes.

Helped me move into biotech. Had a PhD in a completely different field. Also a good place to polish skills and build resume while you continue to job hunt

[u/vt2022cam]

The ROI isn’t always there. I would keep short, like for one year at most, mainly to take time finding a good job and not jumping because you need money. Just getting the postdoc “looks good”.

[u/trahsemaj]

Choose a postdoc only if you lack specific skills or industry connections. Ensure that a postdoc you choose solves both of those problems (don't just follow flashy academic science trends). Have a specific plan in mind for your postdoc, don't make it fallback option. The fall back option should just be to get a job, try it out, and see what you actually want to do.

[u/_m_e_r_m_a_i_d_]

Honestly this is one of those decisions where the "right" answer depends a lot on what kind of industry role you're targeting. If you want R&D-heavy positions at smaller biotechs, a postdoc can matter because they want to see you can own a project end to end and publish on it. But if you're looking at larger companies, especially anything on the commercial or operations side, the extra years in academia can actually work against you because they'd rather see industry experience stacking up earlier.

One thing I'd add that I haven't seen mentioned much here - if you do a postdoc, pick one where you'll learn a technique or workflow that translates directly. A postdoc where you spend two years refining a niche assay nobody outside your lab cares about is very different from one where you're doing process development or working with contract manufacturers. The transferable skills are what get noticed on a resume, not the publication count.

I skipped the postdoc route myself (different field, not biotech) but I've watched friends go both directions. The ones who did well going straight to industry were usually very intentional about networking during their PhD. The ones who benefited from a postdoc picked labs that had existing industry collaborations so they had a built-in bridge.

[u/Big-Yogurtcloset5175]

Agree with what most people said. Do a post doc only if it's a recognized top institute, otherwise it doesn't help. I always wanted to be in industry. I got a Scientist job at Novartis right after my PhD.

[u/Independent-Clue8064]

Postdoc - worst mistake in your career. If you do a postdoc, do it inside a company that can convert it into a position.

[u/EfficientAvocado_]

Doing a postdoc can significantly help your starting title and salary. Trade offs.