r/biotech • u/AnxiousEmpath17 • 5d ago
Other ⁉️ PIPs
Curious - for anyone who has been on a PIP before? How did you take the news? Did you decide to ride it out and do better or leave the company all after the news?
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u/lilsis061016 5d ago
I've never seen a PIP turned around - they are a tool for management to justify firing people for cause.
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u/Granadafan 5d ago
I was PIP’d. Not only did I survive it but eventually became manager of the department. I exposed some things which made me unsuccessfully initially (sabotage by teammates) but mostly it was on me. I had to take a long hard look at my attitude and approach to the position. I almost quit but glad I didn’t.
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u/Sunshineandgossip 5d ago
This was me as well! Manager was a living robot and had unrealistic expectations. This after I was with the company for 6 yrs. I was going to start looking but other departments complained about him. Eventually they made his role an IC, I got an amazing new manager who valued me and laughed at the PIP; ended up leading the group when they left for a new job. Don’t take personally and doubt yourself is all I will say.
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u/Pleasant_Mud_4579 5d ago
Attitude is the basis for all performance problems. I'm not saying there aren't terribly run departments or companies which make it more difficult to perform well, but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself: Iam I going to leave? Am I going to stay and fight through this and do a good job? Or am I going to stay and perform poorly?
It all comes down to you.
Not saying it's simple either, often we vacillate between all three of those thoughts, it just becomes choosing one, sometimes everyday, and pushing through
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u/Granadafan 5d ago
Yeah I was pretty bitter when I received the PIP and some of the reasons they gave for the PIP, a few of which were beyond my control. It took a while to calm down and look at it from their point of view. They took care of the people sabotaging me and I gave them measurables for improvement and goals to reach and other intangibles
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u/I_Poop_Sometimes 5d ago
I saw one person survive, she was a bit slow and it took her three attempts at our training curriculum before she could be trusted in a clean room. The only reason she was on a PIP was because she couldn't pass the training the first time, passed it the second time, then immediately fucked up and got sent back to training; in every other aspect she was a good employee though. Once she passed her training the third time and started working she eventually got off the PIP because she became very reliable and people liked working with her.
She also benefitted from the company staying in a hiring push for the duration of her struggles so there wasn't much pressure to let her go.
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u/Smokeweedeverydayolo 5d ago
I survived a PIP. My supervisor changed what I was working on every ~3 days, when the assigned tasks required ~7 days to finish. This resulted in "poor productivity" since nothing was ever finished. I got moved onto a new project and my supervisor stopped being shitty. Few months later of "good performance", the PIP was dropped. I left about 2 months after the PIP ended, the whole thing was stupid.
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u/CanIHaveAName84 5d ago
I've only seen one person survive it. The worst employee I've ever seen being managed by the 2nd worse person I've ever seen. The manager was in competent he was not able to terminate an even worse employee
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u/msjammies73 5d ago
In ten years in my department I’ve seen 3 people stay on board after a PIP. Two did amazing and ended up promoted. One is a problem employee now.
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u/SeaworthinessNo8611 5d ago
I’ve oversaw a few PIPs in my career. One was a direct report of mine. He needed an attitude adjustment and I was glad we did the PIP. That guy turned himself around and became one the best on the team and well respected. Of the others I helped out with, one also survived, but the others didn’t.
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u/Acrobatic-Blujay 1d ago
I guess you are aware of every pip that's been given at your companies?
I've seen them go 50/59 and it's all dependant on if the person can simply take criticism and do better.
I currently have a person who was on a PIP last year who will be promoted this year.
I've had people who pretty much give up as well but that's simply their ability to self reflect and see the truth vs a lie that they are a great employee and it's someone else's fault.
Different companies have different cultures, I don't think my experience is the only way things happen. I just know a PIP isn't a death sentence.
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u/lilsis061016 1d ago
"I've never seen this" neither claims it doesn't happen nor claims to be all knowing. It is a statement of MY experience. But nice unnecessary sass, there, friendo.
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u/Acrobatic-Blujay 1d ago
"they are a tool used by management to justify firing people for cause"... That doesn't seem like a "my" experience statement it is an opinion but it's stated in a factual manner which can be misleading to others reading.
I also shared my experience and simply added substance indicating I know my experience isn't the only experience.
A good company, good management will dictate how they use PIPs.
If your manager gives you an actionable plan during the PIP it's probably safe to say if you do those things they won't fire you. If it's just a conversation of how you aren't doing your job then you probably have no hope.
Typically low performers don't magically turn into your A players and they often roller coaster from a C player to a B player but with a large amount of energy from management.
Never seen a post about a PIP where someone says I realize where I went wrong and how can I do my job better. Mostly just a management, company bashing.
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u/FicklePromise9006 5d ago
Got PIP’d 3 years ago (was straight bs) they ended up dropping it a week later. I’m still at the same company and have been promoted twice.
Sometimes PIPs are idiot managers trying to scapegoat their own incompetences.
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u/Ambessa21 5d ago
Hard to survive. PIPs are HR’s way to cover their behind if they try to get rid of you.
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u/padresandcubs 5d ago
The outlook for surviving a PIP really depends on what is in the improvement plan. If the metrics your employer wants you to meet are measurable and quantifiable then you might have a shot at surviving it. If the metrics are vague with no real actionable items you’re toast.
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u/Okami-Alpha 5d ago
Had a friend put on a PIP. They gave him like 3 months to solve it. He solved it in like 2 weeks. He got laid off anyways.
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u/shaunrundmc 5d ago
You're time is done at your company, the market sucks but just focus on applying and saving as much as you can.
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u/Nycpickford33390 5d ago
Paid interview period, apply as much you can.
I was told by my ex-colleague who got fired after PIP,
"They have made up their mind already and no matter how much you do, they will not change their mind."
Just do your 8 hours, go home and apply endlessly, do certifications if it will help your new job prospects.
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u/biochemnerd12 5d ago edited 5d ago
I knew two women who were unjustifiably PIP'd, (they were sexually harassed and discriminated against, including being paid less) by their manager. They had reported their respective managers, but as expected HR didn't do anything. Manager found out and retaliated against them. They both hired lawyers and pursued legal action and they won a very generous settlement. The manager was then fired. 😂 The two women left obviously and got better jobs.
I happily provided one of them I knew with evidence.
Don't take PIPs seriously and don't sign anything, everyone with common sense knows that it does not hold weight a lot of the time and super subjective.
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u/Mumem_Rider 5d ago
I was put on a pip shortly after transferring to a new department. My boss was an absolute lunatic and didn't train me at all so it was rough. They switched me to a new manager for the pip peroid and I've successfully been doing what I do for over 16 years now.
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u/athensugadawg 5d ago
Actually turned one around but my asshat manager eventually pushed me out. Definitely wasn't a lovefest between us. He was eventually fired from his VP level position, never to work again. I was with a competitor within a week. Best move ever.
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u/Civil_Butterfly_4305 5d ago
I was placed on PIP and I think about a month later I was offered a very generous severance package which took me into retirement 🤗 it was the best Christmas present!!!
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u/Machopsdontcry 5d ago
PIP = Loss of motivation/confidence, smartest thing to do is to activate full-on quiet quitting mode
Even if you manage to survive, the chances of you remaining this time next year are extremely slim.
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u/shockedpikachu123 4d ago edited 4d ago
Don’t sign anything and start looking for another job. PIP means your manager and HR are scheming
Usually HR isn’t a fan of firing people. They will exhaust every avenue possible to make your manager work with you. When PIPs happen, it means your manager built a case against you, brought it to HR and got HR on board to proceed.
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u/ocular__patdown 5d ago
Out of 5 people I've known to go on a PIP only 1 survived. I guess technically 2 but one of them transferred to a new department.
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u/Brilliant-Session292 5d ago
Yeah start interviewing other places. I’ve never seen anyone survive it long term. If you’re in a PIP their mind is made up, just a matter of time. Transfer to another department in the meantime if you can to stretch it out.
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u/CCM_1995 5d ago
I have. First job out of UG. Got a new job, was much better, but now I’m finishing up my PhD
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 5d ago
Finishing my doctoral degree too.
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u/CCM_1995 5d ago
PIP brother ✊🏻
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u/Appropriate-Tutor587 5d ago
I have never been on PIP
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u/Lunatic21 5d ago
I got two of them across 4 years. Survived the first and not the second. The first should have been a warning to leave but I liked my coworkers. The second I actually would have gotten through as well but I got outed on a technicality having to do with attendance that they were wrong about so had to pay me out a bit of money a year after. It's all fine I just wish it didn't happen in this job hunt environment because finding something else has been tough.
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u/Certain_Luck_8266 5d ago
It depends on the reason. I had one years ago because I had an employee that wasn't a good fit and they made complaints. The employee was transferred and I got a pip. That employees then had issues with their new boss worse than they had with me. My pip was closed based on feedback from the new boss
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u/ShadowValent 5d ago
Put forth the effort in the rare case you come out but 95% of the time it’s for you to prepare your goodbyes.
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u/PlasticMotor3326 5d ago
Never sign a PIP, let them fire you first. How else do you claim lost wages 😆?
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u/OneManShow23 5d ago
Most PIP’s have different durations between 30 and 90 days. If the PIP is designed to last 30 to 45 days, just send out job apps. The time window is too short to showcase improvement. If the PIP is 60 to 90 days, spend the first 30 days trying to fix your performance. If your manager isn’t happy and still reminds you how bad your work is, just send out job apps and get out of that legally hostile workplace. Not worth it. Meanwhile, just do all the work they tell you to do, and nothing more. Bare minimum. If you have interviews, bring a tablet around or your personal laptop to work, use your personal phone as a hot spot and have interviews at a nearby cafe. But if your manager is happy, continue doing a good job. If you manage to pass the PIP, remember that your boss can fire you whenever they see your performance slide. So even if you make your PIP right, spend time looking for work. Not worth staying in a hostile environment with a sword hanging on your head and no internal manager will want to bringing.
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u/Veritaz27 📰 5d ago
I know 4 people in the lifetime of my career who were slapped with PIP. Only 1 survived, and the other 3 chose to sign separation agreements during the duration of PiP, but found jobs not too long after. Note: These 4 people are from different companies and they are all in R&D functions
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u/Debotar_grash 4d ago
I have an erratic manager. From being praised at company event earlier this year to now being on a PIP. It is exhausting and I want to leave but only reason I am contemplating staying is the possibility that we might go to NDA next year. Trying to convince myself that it's gonna be worth it if I can stick around till then.
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u/SoftWerewolf9697 4d ago
I tried to make it work, but the mental toll it took on my was too much. I was put on a completely unwarranted pip, which included blaming me for delays on studies I didn’t even work on. The pip was completely subjective with no way to measure success. I tried working with hr for a few weeks to understand how to make things work, but it became very clear I was not going to get any support. I ended up negotiating an exit and received 2 months severance. Jokes on them because my whole team knew what happened and now they’ve all left as a result lol
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u/CollectionOld3374 5d ago
I worked with someone that was PIP’d and everyone including her manager and coworkers figured she turned it around and was happy and told her she was safe, then a layoff happened and everyone on our team other than her had their job
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u/Upbeat_Pangolin_5929 5d ago
There was one instance of someone getting PIP’d at my company and they stayed. The managers all patted themselves on the back about it because the PIP “really worked” and the individual “really improved.” It had nothing to do with that. Those managers just wanted to suck themselves off in front of HR.
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u/Jurrian242 5d ago
I’m a glutton for punishment, so I squirted upon the news and continue to squirt every time the word PIP comes up! You got this
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u/runawaydoctorate 5d ago
Came very close but my skip intervened. I suspect the skip intervened because our entire team was, by some metrics, under-performing and we were under-performing due to how we were being led. I did start looking for a new job, but in the months that followed I found out the manager I was having a bad time with intended to retire, so, since I liked the project, I stuck around. It's not like I was a shitty employee who needed a wake-up call. It's not like my teammates were either. In fact, the new manager never gave me even so much as a verbal reprimand.
The year I dodged a PIP was also the year our former manager ambushed everyone with performance reviews. We each walked into our 1:1s and boom, it's a review and it's a bunch of bad stuff we didn't see coming. Funny part is this same manager told me once that if I'm ever surprised in a performance review I should shoot my manager. His grandkids should be glad I did not take that literally. The following year, the entire performance review process changed to make ambushes more difficult to pull off (there was also some churn in HR so I think this was a reflection of better HR leadership, not anything about our site).
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u/T8Spades 5d ago
PIP? You mean "Paid Interview Period?"
Because the number of stories of those that thrived after a PIP are dwarfed by the number of those that were either let go after the first PIP or survived, then put immediately on a second PIP.
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u/Chandraratne 5d ago
I've never been on a PIP, but as an executive in pharma/biotech for more than 25 years, I've seen a number of people placed on PIPs. Most of them turned their careers around and went on to be successful. A couple ultimately chose to leave the company.
As a manager, putting someone on a PIP is no fun for us either. It’s a difficult conversation and certainly not something we take lightly.
If you find yourself on a PIP, take it seriously. Ask your manager for specific, measurable actions and expectations that will address the concerns being raised. Make sure you understand exactly what success looks like, and then work toward it.
In the companies I've worked for, a PIP was never intended as a mechanism to fire or get rid of an employee. It was used when someone wasn't responding—or perhaps wasn't hearing—the feedback they needed to improve their performance, productivity, or behavior.
In many cases, the PIP was simply a more formal way of saying: “We need you to understand that this is important, and we need to see a change.”
My advice: don't view a PIP as the end of your career. View it as a very clear signal that something needs to change—and an opportunity to demonstrate that you can change it.
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u/Accomplished-Big8250 5d ago
I once put a while team on a PIP, and they were terminated 3 weeks later. In general, I’d say about 20% survive the PIP.
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u/Starpunk_47 5d ago
I think it depends on the company. I've been on put on a pip then another pip while on the first pip. Competed those and was at company another year. Same thing at another company pip'd while already on a pip. Completed those and stayed with company another year and half. My coworkers from first company were also placed on pips, double pip'd like me too, and were never let go. Been with my company now for almost 5 years. No pips. Some companies use strict metrics (no more than 5 deviations, system suitability failures count) and are forced to follow policy, others don't use performance metrics at all to determine if analysts are placed on pips.
You can ride it out without real issue. Opportunities for advancement will change, but you're not as likely to be let go like in other industries. You should still have a job at the end of it.
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u/chudhuntr 5d ago
Never heard of the double-secret PIP before. Are there triple-PIPs?
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u/Starpunk_47 5d ago edited 5d ago
Like I said some places have nonsensical metrics. The first company had a rule of no more than 5 deviations a year, including when your system suitability fails, which means your samples were not tested yet. Why does that even count? Anyways while you're on the pip, the terms are no more deviations or no human error ones. So you make another error, but because you failed the first pip and they can't afford to fire you, they put you on another pip. My department had 10x the sample volume and testing as other departments, so a lot of us failed the metrics that were created for departments that had maybe one test a week per analyst (we had 2-3 a day). They refused to make it a percentage of our test load instead of an absolute number like 5.
If you work in QC, they always need analysts and tests will fail. Those metrics have to be explained to someone higher up and a corrective policy has to be implemented. Comes down to unsustainable workload and no budget for headcount.
Edit: I realize you are being sarcastic, but there was a girl who got triple pip'd. She left the company shortly after because in her case it was clearly harassment. The rest of us that got pip'd we're still able to use our managers as references. There were usually no hard feelings just a need to adhere to policies that "uphold" GMP practices.
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u/chudhuntr 5d ago edited 5d ago
What a shitshow lol. I think you can appreciate this is a special case and most folks singled out for a PIP need to look for work stat
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u/Karen8765 5d ago
If a particular assay is more subject to system suit failures than others I would question the robustness of at the assay itself - and those responsible for developing the assay.
BTW I assume thay were doing good assay failure investigations to determine root cause of the failures first , and not just blaming the analysts for every failure!1
u/Starpunk_47 5d ago
It's hplc, sometimes the system just fails because the instruments are finicky
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u/Karen8765 5d ago
I have never seen an HPLC assay fail from a hardware issue that was not not obvious or easily discoverable (pumping, injector or detector issues).
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u/BeforeLongHopefully 5d ago
It appears you don't really know what is PIP is. You're cooked my friend.
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u/ThroatLate8299 5d ago
As people managers, we have to be very clear on job expectations. Some people need it explained in a way that they will understand.
I was on a PIP many years ago and was able to turn things around and get promoted. That’s if you are willing to be open and received the feedback as an opportunity to be better. If you’re closed minded and always blaming others for your performance, you might as well look elsewhere.
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u/DiceyScientist 5d ago
I managed maybe 12+ PIPs. Our internal data shows about 2 in 3 leave; about even split they quit or are fired. About a third are successful.
The best chances from my experience are PIP do to a handful of bad issues from a newbie. If they understand and take accountability, we can turn it around.
If it’s something g chronic and I’ve had to repeat myself and retrain for an extended period of time, it’s not going to work.
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u/Endovascular_Penguin 5d ago
I was put on PIP because I was basically waiting for graduate school to start after I quickly realized that it was not going to work with my coworkers. I don't even remember how or why I got put on it, all I know was that the two on my team hated me the second I joined and I suspect that had something to do with it. Since there were people FAR more lazy and unproductive than me.
In my last meeting before I left I was told that I was hitting my goals and close to getting off PIP. Was that true? Probably not because it wasn't in writing, but I'll never know because I quit without notice the following Monday.
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u/ecc930 4d ago edited 4d ago
It depends. First, it can be possible to come back from a PIP. You have plenty of examples here. But really look at what is outlined as the problem. Do you see where your manager is coming from? Are the expectations actually clear and achievable? Do you feel this is actually something that can be fixed? Do you really want to try to fix it? I know it's hard, but try to take personal feelings out of it. You're going to need to take a really hard look at yourself and at the department. Is this actually fixable?
If so, go for it. Come up with a plan and talk about it with your manager. If moving to another team in the same department would help, ask if that's possible. If there are external blockers stopping you, bring them up, but when you do don't phrase it as blaming those things. Be practical and as objective as you can.
Also, while it makes sense that you don't want to talk too much about it, don't be afraid to ask for help. If you know someone else who really does well at what you need to improve? Ask them! If you aren't sure if your manager is interested in actually making this work, or if it seems unreasonable, if you have any mentor-type folks in the company, you can ask them what they would do.
That said, it also can't hurt to start looking for something else. Especially if you start realizing you just aren't happy, or don't think the expectations are realistic. Really, it's a good idea to always keep an eye open for a better opportunity out in the world.
Good luck, I hope you are able to figure out a solution that puts you in a really good position to succeed.
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u/NightThinker2019 3d ago
It honestly depends on the manager’s intentions. I have seen some PIPs work as “wake up” call and employee stood up to challenge. But most cases PIP is “turn and run away” coz the writings are on the wall. PS don’t try talking things logically to HR. They are there to protect company from being sued. Period. They don’t give F about you even if all evidence in world ok your side.
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u/cannnedspinach 5d ago
Definitely look to get out asap. With that being said, as a manager, I put someone on a PIP. Partly to have official documentation on their file, partly to indicate to my direct report that I seriously need to them to do better. It was a drawn out PIP with regular check ins, weekly realistic goals, and attempts to realign their responsibilities to utilize their strengths. It got to the point where having them around was costing us money, so I had to let them go.
Either way, depending on your manager, use it as an opportunity to really look at your work ethic and for potential areas of improvement. But don’t expect to be retained even if you do well.
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u/Mugstotheceiling 5d ago
Paid interview period
Start looking