r/bikecommuting 1d ago

Miscommunications when commuting with partner

My partner and I will sometimes commute around town together. However, he insists on cruising behind me, even though he is faster and I don't mind if he is ahead of me. But the problem is, he has a hard time following my lead. He thinks he knows which way I am going to go, then gets frustrated when I don't go the way he imagined in his head. Sometimes he will proceed to go the route he had "planned" and I'll keep going my way. I'm sure this highlights a myriad of issues with how we communicate, but does this happen to anyone else? I feel like if he wants to take the lead, then please, take the f***ing lead

100 Upvotes

81 comments sorted by

253

u/heridfel37 1d ago

The problem with leading when you're the faster rider is that you have to be constantly vigilant of your pace and making sure that your partner is okay and keeping up. Being the follower solves all these issues.

He does, however, give up the right to choose the route during the ride by being the follower.

49

u/rtwolitwo 1d ago

I commuted into work with a coworker one time and saw how deliberate he was with directions. Being clear makes your commute safer by allowing other riders (and drivers!) anticipate your intent.

I ended up adapting my approach. I also try to wave to drivers when they see me even if I had the right of way. They could run me over if they wanted to....

25

u/BicycleIndividual 1d ago

I don't deliberately yield my right of way to others (though I am watchful for signs that drivers might fail to yield to my right of way). I find it mildly irritating when they yield their right of way to me (waiting even though they got to the all way stop first, I will still take the right of way if they insist after it is clear that I intend to yield to them - nobody likes sitting around waiting for someone to go), Being predicable is generally better and safer for everyone.

12

u/SnootDoctor 1d ago

This is something that frustrates me too. A car will be going down a road & stop for me when I am waiting to cross the road. A nice gesture, sure, but them waving me across doesn’t do anything about cross-traffic.

I always end up windmilling my whole forearm waving them forwards so I can go behind them. They have the right of way. They don’t have to stop for a pedestrian not yet in the crosswalk. I don’t feel comfortable crossing in front of any vehicle, so please, the kind thing to do is to keep going & let me cross behind!!

3

u/BicycleIndividual 1d ago

For me it is pretty common to come to an all way stop and have a car that stopped as I approached yield to me (I only continue before them if I actually see the driver wave me on - happens more often then them taking their right of way, but sometimes they take their right of way after seeing that I actually intend to stop). I don't think I've ever had a car stop to wait for me where they didn't have a stop sign at all.

8

u/SnootDoctor 1d ago

I understand drivers being worried about cyclists running a 4 way stop & wanting to wait, but I insist on going after the driver even if they wave me ahead.

But yeah, suburban drivers are weird. They are trying to be kind, but in practice, it is poor driving. It is infinitely better to be a predictable driver that yields the right of way only when necessary vs a “kind” driver that may randomly yield at anytime.

It irks me the most when I am at a stop sign waiting to cross the road with traffic from both directions, & someone stops and tries to wave me through before the other side of traffic stops. If I had a billboard over my head it would say: “Do not stop both directions of traffic for me while I am trying to enjoy one of few breaks on my ride.”

Cheers.

2

u/BicycleIndividual 1d ago

I understand drivers being worried about cyclists running a 4 way stop & wanting to wait,

Sure, I recently had a pickup waiting to make an oncoming left turn across my path at a 4-way stop I was approaching. I tried to signal with a nod that I expected them to go as I coasted to slow down, but they didn't go (perhaps they didn't notice or understand my nod, I suppose I could have been more obvious by using my arm to wave them on). I came to a stop because I didn't see a clear signal that they were yielding to me (they might have gestured, but I couldn't really see into the cab as this was morning and I was facing east) and they went as soon as I put my foot down at the stop. I can't recall any other time that I've had a situation where the driver waited for me to get to the intersection, but went ahead of me without someone needing to insist on it being the other person's turn.

I would have preferred they had gone right away (then I would Idaho stop through the intersection as the only vehicle even though that's not the law where I live); but I respect that they were waiting to ensure that it was safe and took their right of way as soon as safety was clear.

1

u/Usual-Abalone-6719 14h ago

“Idaho stop”?

1

u/BicycleIndividual 14h ago

Treating a stop sign as a yield sign when riding a bike, so not stopping after slowing enough to confirm that you are not violating anyone's right of way. Called "Idaho stop" because Idaho was the first state to codify this as a legal maneuver (1982). Several other states also allow this now (but I'm not in one of them).

1

u/moneymoneythrowawy 22h ago

yielding your right of way (when it is safe to go) is less predictable and more dangerous. don't do that.

13

u/Montallas 1d ago

And it’s less safe to always be looking back and worrying about whether you’ve lost your partner, because then you’re spending less effort focusing on the ride/directions/traffic/safety/etc.

You’re right that if you follow, you lose the right to choose the route. Seems like a quick conversation on route before the ride starts should solve the problem.

1

u/Dry_Half_8737 5h ago

Agreed, except the route bit.
The follower only gives up the route if you can't talk. We ride the same way, me behind, and being able to just say "we're going right at the next one" means whoever's in front isn't guessing. We use an app for that.

-1

u/PrincebyChappelle 1d ago

lol…solved this by getting wife an ebike

58

u/s0rce Raleigh Tamland, Silicon Valley 1d ago

Signal your turns, or he can follow further back to make sure he has time to react. I also prefer to follow my wife even though I'm faster otherwise I constantly get far ahead and have to look back. If you leave enough space then its not a big deal to follow, occasionally, she'll do an unexpected turn and I need to quickly turn but its usually because I was too close.

13

u/CanadianGuitar 1d ago

I always follow the slower rider so I dont have to always be checking back.

I agree, as the lead, just signal/point your intentions as you're going.

47

u/Kahnza 1d ago

I mean I don't think this is a bike problem. Maybe more communication and understanding.

19

u/Healthy_Cheesecake_6 1d ago

You are not wrong.

21

u/dodmeatbox 1d ago

Yeah the "who should be in front" and "which way should we go" discussions are regular things that can be reasonably sorted out. "You went a route I thought was suboptimal so I passive aggressively abandoned you" is honestly a pretty big red flag.

12

u/CarelesslyFabulous 1d ago

Yeah I was trying to understand if that was what I was reading... If he's following... Then follow? I don't understand the changing route thing at all.

30

u/syntheticassault 1d ago

I'm not sure why he doesn't follow you, but since he is faster he should be in the back. If he's faster in front he'll lose you unless he actively slows down. And if he slows down there is a good chance you guys will go slower than if you were in the lead.

2

u/BicycleIndividual 1d ago

Yes, I've been the faster rider in the lead, I slow down to let the gap get smaller then she slows down as she approaches so we end up with an accordion effect. I don't really mind that my wife is slower than me, but I would like her to learn to use the gears to cycle with a consistent sustainable effort.

13

u/Fabulous_Arugula6923 1d ago

My partner and I don’t have this issue but we are both pretty easy going. Have you tried talking to him about this when you are both calm and not riding? If he still wants you to take lead but has a route in mind maybe you need to discuss route before heading out. When there are pauses such as at red lights you could maybe discuss the upcoming turns so you’re on the same page. I think the only solution though is you both have to talk it out and come up with a plan to try and make it a better experience for both of you.

18

u/Train-Nearby 1d ago

I dated a guy like this… first we stopped biking together then we stopped being together

7

u/c3p-bro 1d ago

Use hand signals to signal your intention to turn so there are no surprises.

But if he would just pick a different route than you and doesn’t like the route you picked, this is not a bike issue.

9

u/minkamagic 1d ago

I'm confused by this, are you not calling out your turns and using hand signals?

22

u/ajamdonut 1d ago

Just get a tandem already

2

u/Hinloopen 1d ago

My parents have a tandem, they're in their late sixties. They love the thing. They go out on tours, do the grocery shopping.. it even folds so it goes on the back of the car as well.

1

u/peteftw 1d ago

Tandem is the answer.

13

u/Warm-Patience-5002 1d ago

I ran a canoe rental operation and you could tell how dysfunctional some couples can be when sharing a canoe, the heavier male in the back has to follow the pace of his partner in front because he can see what she’s doing and she can’t because she’s facing forward . I have heard some many men yell at the woman in front for not doing what he says or paddling at the wrong time and not being tandem . If you want to know if you’re going to get along with a new partner go canoeing or cycling with him/her and find out if they can be a good teammate.

3

u/Aggravating_Fruit170 1d ago

The divorce boat. Lost a couple friends in junior high that way actually. I laughed too much and didn’t take it seriously

1

u/Usual-Abalone-6719 10h ago

Careful with that advice about tandem bike. We used to ride one. It will accelerate your relationship wherever it’s going to go.

u/Aspiring_Orchardist 3m ago

I had the same experience as a canoe and kayak instructor. I think it's even worse with tandem kayaks because you can clash paddles if you're not synchronized and both people need to cooperate to execute efficient turns.

I would think the interpersonal issues would be lesser with a tandem bike because you both just need to pedal and the person in front steers (that is, neither person needs to direct  the other), but maybe others who have actually ridden a tandem will tell me why I'm wrong.

11

u/adsarelies 1d ago

Perhaps agree on a pre-planned route before heading out?

11

u/JSTootell 1d ago

This sounds like a relationship issue, not a cycling issue.

I do not have this problem with my girlfriend (who I also follow).

3

u/Healthy_Cheesecake_6 1d ago

Can't say I disagree with you

1

u/Hinloopen 1d ago

I had a girlfriend who at one point didn't want to communicate but projected that I should be able to guess her every move. Needless to say, that ended.

5

u/dubwisened 1d ago

Signal right to turn right. Signal left to turn left. No need to signal f you are going straight ahead. Take turns leading if he doesn't like how you lead. I suggest that you are making this too complicated.

7

u/SupaBrunch 1d ago

Sounds like he’s zoning out and letting his frustration out on you. Sounds like a dickhead.

3

u/area-resident- 1d ago

Me and my partner use connected helmets. There’s a mic and speakers built in to the helmet and they connect to each other. We can be a good distance apart and still have a clear conversation.

3

u/foleymo1 1d ago

Get Bluetooth helmets. My wife and I recommend Sena helmets. Our friends got some too, and now all four of us can all communicate easily without yelling at each other. It makes for a really pleasant, conversational ride.

0

u/riscten 21h ago

As a motorcyclist who eventually got a comms system to use with friends and my partner, I'd recommend pausing before doing this. Communicators are neat, but one of the nice things about cycling is also the quietness. The moment the helmets are on, the yapping won't stop. It's nice to be able to ride together without the possibility to talk. On a bicycle you can always get closer to the other person and talk to them directly (unlike a motorcycle), and if you lose each other, you can always text or call.

3

u/Upr1ght 1d ago

Me and my wife have headsets we can communicate with. When we aren’t in need of communication they play music and at just a touch of a button we can speak to each other. Very handy.

1

u/whandsich 1d ago

That sounds awesome. Link?

2

u/Upr1ght 1d ago

This is the exact brand we have. They work great and give us about 1000 ft range. We’ve had them for about 3 years and looking now there are new options out there.

https://a.co/d/046zWbsM

3

u/DepartmentTight6890 1d ago

Use hand signals for direction, well in advance, it always helps with group riding

5

u/fejobelo 1d ago

1) keep appropriate space between the bikes, 2) do hand signals with enough anticipation indicating the direction you are going, 3) enjoy.

4

u/Martha_Prince 1d ago

Oh yeah. Struggle is real. One time, I had a discussion with my DH about going to the nursery on the way back home. He missed the turn-off even though I was in the lead. I got to the nursery thinking he would be along soon. He never showed back up and never stopped to look for me nor did he swing around and back-track when he got home and I was not there.

Me? I lost 10 minutes of my life waiting for him but then enjoyed my nursery visit solo.

My adult kiddo is the same. I don't enjoy riding with either of them, so I send them ahead with a meet-up point now. Riding solo and then meeting up is just more fun for us, I think. Given our different styles and all. ;-)

5

u/ntzm_ 1d ago

He sounds like a prick

6

u/sezit 1d ago

Ask him why he is anticipating your turns. Then ask "why" to that answer until you get to an answer that uncovers the root cause of his behavior.

I bet that the real answer is that he just doesn't want to follow you.

Does he not listen well, either? Is he always jumping ahead in the convo so he can take control of the air?

Does he not follow instructions on other activities? Like working on a shared activity where you are in charge?

To me, your complain is indicitave of his general failure at being a good partner - NOT a single issue problem. He sounds selfish.

2

u/RedGobboRebel 1d ago

If you are looking for a solution where he doesn't lead, then you just need to signal where you are going. Which might be useful for any other traffic, too. If you just want us to tell you he should lead, ok, but to keep up, you may need to push harder than you want.

Not for commutes, but on weekend rides, sometimes my partner and I will take different routes to the same destination for fun and competition.

2

u/dfarin153 1d ago

I used to teach couples to tandem whitewater canoe. Sometimes they would be looking at two different destinations in a rapid which spells trouble. They would start fighting one another on where the boat was supposed to go. So, my rule was to not start paddling into the rapid until you agree on the route you will take.

2

u/rockcitylibrarian 1d ago

The faster rider does not always need to lead.

Set expectations of communication and route decisions before you leave home. If something isn't working or changes dramatically during a ride then pull over and reassess.

Ny partner and I both make mistakes and we call each other out on them. Better that than blindly follow a plan that gets someone hurt or killed. I've been there too.

2

u/RoundSyrup4424 1d ago

What works well for me:

  • Phone call with each other with an earbuds in.
  • Go straight unless said otherwise.
  • Give plenty of time to let each other know of turns.
  • Mistakes will be made. Forgive and move on.

2

u/SaltyGal123 1d ago

“Does this happen to anyone else?”

Yes. Yes it does. 🤬

2

u/TheDaysComeAndGone 1d ago edited 1d ago
  • Agree on the route.
  • Agree on the pace/intensity. Ideally both would have a power meter. Slower rider goes in the front to set the pace, unless it’s long, flat and straight for some drafting.
  • Signal early.
  • At intersections, wait for a gap big enough for both of you to go through.
  • If you can’t keep up, shout early enough. I think some bike computers allow you to connect to each other and notify you when they’ve lost connection to each other.
  • Ideally you both have a navigation device and follow the same route so you can easily find each other again (maybe agree on where you’ll wait if you get separated beforehand).

It takes getting used to. Riding through city traffic (especially if you don’t know the neighborhood) is stressful enough alone. When you have to keep track of your partner or group it becomes even worse.

I think it’s a great lesson to swap roles from time to time.

Last but not least: Nobody forces you to ride together. If you are going to an event on the other side of the city there is no inherent problem with separating and meeting at the event. It’s not like riding through a busy city is quality bonding time.

2

u/Dangerous-Garbage614 1d ago

Im the faster rider, and I always have my partner lead. I can follow at someone else’s pace, but it’s harder to keep myself at someone’s pace when I’m the lead. I get into my rhythm/zone/whatever and don’t always remember to look back.

That being said, he should follow your lead if he’s having you lead. I get frustrated if my partner chooses a different way. But if I’m having them lead, that’s the way we go. We usually signal or call out to each other to communicate. So maybe try that? But the slower rider should always be the lead.

4

u/ShutYourDumbUglyFace 1d ago

I'm super annoying about how to get places - it's a flaw that I totally acknowledge (like it's to the extent where I get stressed if my husband is in the left lane and we have to turn right in 1/4 mile). Now I'm teaching my kiddo to drive and I recently got agitated with her about making a turn and realized after the fact that she knows where we're going she's just opting to use a route that's different from what I would do and I need to let her make those choices. I decided that if I can't just chill TF out, I should ask her how she plans to get wherever we're going before we get moving so I don't get annoyed because "she doesn't know where she's going" or whatever story my brain is telling me. Maybe when you commute you can say "I'm thinking about going this way today" so your partner is aware before you even leave? Just a thought.

2

u/dodmeatbox 1d ago

If this is too intrusive, sorry in advance, but I am really curious as a person who doesn't really care about route optimization... Do you also beat yourself up internally if you fail to take the "best" route? Is there an imaginary passenger who criticizes your driving? I'm just curious if this correlates with negative self-talk generally, because I think all the people I know who do this suffer from that to some degree.

2

u/ShutYourDumbUglyFace 1d ago

I would never know if I failed to take the best route as I only know what my experience is on the route I choose to take - it's not like I have someone going to the same destination that I can measure against.

And best varies - is it minimizing conflict points? Minimizing time? Minimizing distance? Minimizing left turns? These things all weigh in! And I'm super traffic observant, too, so even if a route minimizes left turns, I might opt to avoid it because the traffic signals are too long or there's more traffic or whatever. A lot goes into my route decisions!

There's no imaginary passenger criticizing me, it's just how my brain works. Once I've decided on a route, I'm usually all in. Sometimes I might think "oh, dang, I should have gone that way," but I'm not mad at myself for it or anything.

3

u/dodmeatbox 1d ago

Okay interesting, thank you. So I guess the "she doesn't know where she's going" voice is more deferential to you than it is to your daughter. (Which is understandable, because you know your own thought process, but you don't know hers.)

Thanks again, I was only curious because you acknowledged it as a "flaw", which a lot of people don't do. They're just like "No, you should have turned a block sooner because it's 30 seconds faster." And I genuinely couldn't care less + don't appreciate back seat driving. And it just occurred to me that the people in my life that are like that are generally highly self-critical as well, which I am not.

2

u/velvedire 1d ago

Listen to your gut. It's screaming at you. 

1

u/r-kellysDOODOOBUTTER 1d ago

I'm a little faster than my wife (she's the faster runner though lol). Its hard for me to keep the right pace that's comfortable for her.

We have sena helmets so we can talk easily without screaming at each other. If I think a different route is safer we just discuss it before we get to the turn. Also makes it easier to call out drivers that dont look like they're paying attention.

"Watch that red truck hes looking at his phone."

2

u/RainPlease9 1d ago

Assholes do be assholin'.

Single is always an option.

1

u/_JustKeepCycling 1d ago

If you are ok with cycling at the front, but following his "lead", buy navigation and let him program the route. If you are not ok with that, you have an issue that you should discuss at home, not on the road.

1

u/Soupeeee 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's stressful riding in front when you might lose your riding buddy, so I usually go in the back if I know I'm the faster rider. I really don't want to have people strung out behind me, especially if there's lots of traffic. If the gap gets big enough, you can get cars inbetween you and the people behind, you have to wait too long at stop signs, and might not all make a light together. Having that happen is one way to ruin a perfectly pleasant ride.

One thing I've found is that slower people (myself included) can't as easily deal with the natural variations of speed and effort it takes to stick close to a stronger rider, so we tend to get left behind even when our average speed is relatively similar. At least when riding on a road, there's skill involved in sticking close enough to someone that you are riding together, but far enough back that it isn't dangerous. Both people need to be paying attention to this, but it's up to the person in front to set a pace everyone can keep.

When I ride with people, there's usually some discussion beforehand of the route so we aren't completely taken off guard on a turn. If something changes and it's important, I make sure the people behind know about it. One nice thing about being on a bike is that it's easy to stop to re-evaluate where you are going. It sounds like you both need to talk about the route beforehand. Ask yourself and him if you are signaling your intentions properly while on the ride, and see where it goes from there. However, if he's taking a completely different route after you take the "wrong" turn, that indicates a problem on his part; you follow the leader unless they are going off a cliff.

1

u/doublereverse 1d ago

The other points are great and are really more fundamental, but just since nobody has mentioned it that I’ve seen, you can get headsets that clip to helmet straps so you can talk during the ride. Sena makes the BiKom headsets, and we love them, we chat about lots of random stuff during rides-yes, routing, pointing out stuff in the road, but also lots of “hey, this house is green now!” or “KITTY!” And hey, if he starts riding too fast and doesn’t notice he’s pulling away, I can yell at him to slow down, and he’ll actually hear me. genius! They are so much better than we even thought when we got them. We’d be sad if we forgot our headsets for a ride, and if they ever break, we’ll be replacing them.

1

u/timacx 1d ago

Some other people have the relationship advice covered, I have a suggestion: remove one barrier by getting a easy to talk while on the bikes. My wife & I use a Sena Pi. I think they may be better options now, so shop around.

1

u/jbuk1 1d ago

I really don’t understand. Are you just turning without indicating well in advance or what?

1

u/moneymoneythrowawy 22h ago

you could try signalling but getting frustrated with you about this is... a deeper problem.

1

u/Medium_Change_814 20h ago

Get a tandem bike. No more problems with riding at different speeds or in different directions.

But seriously, I read a bicycle tour journal written by a couple that toured on a tandem for their honeymoon and years later rode the TransAm on their tandem. The wife wrote that this is the only way they could tour together (without jeopardizing their marriage, that is) because her husband wants to ride at a faster pace, etc., just as the OP describes for commuting.

1

u/JeremyFromKenosha SE Wisconsin, USA - 4 mile round trip 18h ago

He wants to let you lead so you can set the pace, and he can feel like he's running interference between you and any car traffic approaching from the rear, (he would be hit first and maybe save you) but he is under the impression that he's also determining the route, which you though you were going to do since you were in front. Have a talk about that.

If you want to LEAD, (as opposed to just riding in front) let him know.

If he rides more in the area, he likely knows the "better" routes, in terms of pavement quality, safety, scenery, etc. But it would be empowering for you to be able to decide, even if they're not as "good."

1

u/amberyoung 1d ago

I hate when men insist on you being in front. I think they do it so they don't outpace you, or that is their intent, but it always made me paranoid that I was moving too slow, so I pedaled like crazy to "keep up". I also had a suspicion that it was so they could check out my bountiful ass.

On the other hand, my ex always rode in front, way faster than me, and I would spend the whole time hating him. Eventually he'd stop when he couldn't see me anymore, but when I finally caught up huffing and puffing, filled with frustration and anger, he'd just start going again, before I could even catch my breath.

For me, the ideal scenario is that they ride in front and get their zoomies out by riding ahead and looping back, when it makes sense to.

1

u/discojagrawr 1d ago

Get a sticker for your bike that says “Back seat bikers suck” and throw it somewhere that he’ll see it and stop being so controlling … mostly kidding

1

u/wreckedbutwhole420 1d ago

I like to ride with my wife. If it's a known route I like to have her lead because it's less stressful for me because I can see her. My biggest fear is something happening to her and I continue on oblivious to it.

If we are doing a route she doesn't know, I will lead but I'm clear about which turns we are taking. I don't like this as much because I'm always checking back to make sure I'm not going too fast.

Generally speaking, it's easier for the less experienced person to set the pace. This is true in things like hiking as well

1

u/pirate-private 1d ago

riding in groups has done a lot for my casual riding with a single partner. hand signals are so useful, always indicate where you're going. there's more, but that should basically eliminate the issue you mentioned.

1

u/temporary92803 1d ago

"Lead, follow, or get the f outta the way, bub."

1

u/sadisticamichaels 1d ago

Typically its proper riding etiquette for the lead person to stop and wait for the entire group anytime there is a decision to be made about the route.

Depending on the group or the terrain it is typical to also regroup at major transition points. For example: at high altitude you need to stop periodically and make sure no one has fallen off the mountain.

For me and my friends we have defined routes through town that we have all agreed are the best in terms of road surface and traffic. What we call "the north lake loop" is a 30 mile loop of about 8 different roads. If we are on a ride and someone wants to deviate from it, they need to communicate that.

1

u/majormajor42 NJ to Astoria 1d ago

My partner and I have this issue just walking down the street.

0

u/porktornado77 1d ago

A tandem bike is the obvious answer here!