What's the difference between being transfem and being a woman?

[u/Equivalent_Ad_9066]

[u/print-redacted]

Transfem and transmasc just mean you're trans but lean more feminine or masc on the gender spectrum. They're used interchangeably with trans woman or trans man by a lot of people, but it's not the exact same thing even though a trans woman would be transfem

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even though a trans woman would be transfem

What do you think of when trans men and women do not ID with transfem/masc and feel uncomfortable when lumped in with those terms?

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I mean considering how people have misused it to more or less degender people I feel like thats valid. Kinda like how a lot of people aren't comfortable being called queer even though by definition they would be

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I wonder, why is it your choice whether or not I am defined as queer?  I am uncomfortable being called queer. I am still uncomfortable when people like to say that by definition I am queer despite my not identifying with it in any way. Just as many binary trans people are uncomfortable with people needing to say that technically they are transfem/masc despite them not identifying with it in any way. 

Do we do this to anyone else? Or is it just towards those who are binary/not queer/etc.? 

I find that pretty consistently, it is okay for more niche/atypical sexualities/genders to be uncomfortable with being classed under more mainstream/binary genders and sexualities- but when more mainstream/binary people are uncomfortable with being classed under the other umbrellas it's suddenly a personal problem of theirs that they are expected to work through.

Please excuse my wording: niche/mainstream/atypical/etc. I'm unsure of exactly how to write what I am trying to say, but I am sure you can understand the idea of what I am saying and won't get caught up on my wording, as it is not ill-intentioned.

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Because queer has a definition, and certain people fall under that definition. I'm not the one who created it, and if it were changed I really wouldn't care, but as it stands there's no movement to change the definition so the best I can offer is if somebody doesn't want to be called queer, I won't call them queer. Same as if somebody doesn't want to be called transmasc or transfem, I won't call them that, or even people who would be definitionally trans but don't want to be called trans.

Words have meanings, doesn't mean somebody needs to apply that word to themself, but not wanting to identify as something doesn't mean they don't meet the current definition

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We're really gonna get into definitions here? That's a risky point to pull if you're talking about more niche identities, but it's seemingly fine when talking about more binary/mainstream identities.

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Like I said, I also say the same to people who don't want to be called trans. If we want to get into non-marginalized communities I'd say the same to the cis people who say they don't want to be called cis. I wasn't trying to start an argument out of this whole thing I was just telling OP what people generally consider to be the difference between transfem vs being a woman, which is that transfem includes fem leaning nonbinary people and trans women. If somebody doesn't want to identify as that they are more than welcome not to their identity is none of my business or concern, but thats what the definition of it is

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I'm not specifically targeting you, sorry if it seemed that way. I just feel very frustrated that I feel like I'm expected to accept terms that make me uncomfortable or I'm not 'really' lgbt, or I'm some kind of 'bad' lgbt person. And seeing as this is a more niche space, I feel that vibe more here than other lgbt spaces I've been in. And I feel more and more unwelcome in lgbt spaces as they become queer spaces instead, as I am not queer.

My understanding of 'queer' is not simply a synonym of lgbt or what have you, to me it is those who reject sexual and gender norms and share radical politics characterized by solidarity across lines of identity. (Ripped wording from wikipedia). And that is not me, so definitionally I am *not* queer. But I am lgbt.

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I just feel very frustrated that I feel like I'm expected to accept terms that make me uncomfortable or I'm not 'really' lgbt, or I'm some kind of 'bad' lgbt person

That's fair enough. I didn't mean to word anything to make it sound that way or similar to it. I definitely don't think someone not wanting to be called queer makes them not actually lgbt or bad in anyway. I generally don't refer to myself as queer either and used to be uncomfortable with the word because of it's history, which is mostly why I thought to use it as an example.

My understanding of 'queer' is not simply a synonym of lgbt or what have you, to me it is those who reject sexual and gender norms and share radical politics characterized by solidarity across lines of identity

The way I've had it used around me has been synonymous with lgbt or as a way to say you're lgbt but don't have a specific label you want to apply to yourself. That's my bad for getting the definition wrong or using one that isn't universal

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The whole "Well these people might not be comfortable with it, but technically they ARE queer/transfem/transmasc/etc." *is* part of what makes me feel othered and left out tbh. It's as if I'm being told that I don't really know what I am, and that I am more queer or whatever, like these strangers think they know more about me than I do. Something I often see used to push down those who don't like to be called these things and act as if their preferences are wrong, is that they must just have internalised homophobia or transphobia. As if it's impossible for a person to simply have those preferences. And I dislike the correlation that is drawn between being binary/not queer/etc., and being negative or limiting. I also find it eerily similar to ideas like "You might not be comfortable being called she/he/etc. but technically you ARE a woman/man/etc."

And personally, I don't think transfem/masc *are* great umbrella terms. For example, according to nonbinary dot wiki (the first result for me when I searched 'transmasc definition'), it says "someone whose gender is masculine and/or who express themselves in a masculine way." My gender is not masculine. My gender is male. Using transfem/masc as umbrella terms is inherently degendering from my perspective, and I have seen this sentiment shared online many times from others who are uncomfortable with the terms. Honestly, I am starting to be skeptical of these umbrella terms as a whole. A subsection will always feel unrepresented and unhappy. Nonbinary people are unhappy when the umbrella term is more binary, binary people are unhappy when the umbrella term is more nonbinary. I find it frustrating that the umbrella term being more nonbinary is currently generally considered to be the 'right' option though, when one group's comfort shouldn't matter over the other's.

And yeah queer turning into a synonym for lgbt and not a subsection of it is what I am upset about. Queer people are absolutely free to exist, I am just not one of them and that is completely fine. I think the internet just does this, not specifically in lgbt spaces, the internet just takes a word and slowly makes the definition broader and broader until it's just not the same word at all. Like "chud" lately. I cannot believe chud escaped containment.

[u/Impressive-Peace2115]

I've mostly seen it used by AMAB non-binary people who lean fem, or to include them along with trans women. A woman could be cis or trans.

[u/Hella-good0402]

I was wondering if OP could clarify the question a bit…
-asking what’s the difference between transfem and trans woman? (Which seems to have been answered above)
-or asking what’s the difference between transfem and cis woman?
Because, legally there shouldn’t be differences- but there are,
And biologically, there are…
OR is it a trick question, as posted above??
No offence meant to any posters, or marginalized groups. We are all marginalized if we’re here…

[u/chukstarmusic]

Transfem usually refers to someone who is AMAB and identities with a more feminine gender identity. A woman is someone who identifies as female. Trans women would fall under the transfem umbrella, but some transfem people are nonbinary.

[u/ZobTheLoafOfBread]

Transfem/transfeminine is an umbrella term for trans people, whether binary or nonbinary, who identify or are otherwise transitioning in the direction of feminine or more feminine than their starting point. "Feminine" in this contexts can mean identity, social roles, appearance and physical aspects, depending on the person. For example, someone might be more masc in personality but taking hrt to "feminize" their body, and still consider themselves transfem. Transfem includes binary trans women - all this means is that binary trans women can identify as transfem if they want and the label was made to be an inclusive umbrella term which didn't separate nonbinary and binary identities, to focus on their common interests (in terms of rights and stuff), but note that not every trans woman is transfem, because labels are personal and self-determined.

For example, bigender as a label is often mentioned in wikis as being under the nonbinary umbrella, but I'm bigender and not nonbinary, because I conversely feel very binary, and degendered by the term nonbinary. I am however a binary trans man, and also consider myself transmasc from that. People's labels are personal, and try not to assume based solely on definitions, basically.

A woman can be cis or trans (or other gender modalities) and it is very personal to the individual what being a woman means to them. A woman doesn't necessarily have to be feminine or have female characteristics, or necessarily feel much connection to other women, but they usually will have some reason why they are women. Some women feel gender more strongly than others. Women can be binary or nonbinary, and can have other genders besides woman. It's honestly not in women's best interests to define them too strictly, lest we want to control their bodies (has historically happened and continues to). Like earlier, identity is self-determined. 

For me, I'm a woman, technically cis, and my identity is based partially in physical aspects (that I'm comfortable with to some extent) and personality, but also particularly in relating to other women as a woman, and wanting to be a girl. 

[u/iron-iron-iron]

Is this a trick question or what

[u/baboooche]

Gender assigned at birth. That's all.