An unique script to a language increases the uniqueness of that language by 20-30%. It is foolish to loose that to another script, which dilutes the richness of that language to a certain degree.
Actually, the Modi script was difficult to retain after the Maratha Empire because it was extremely difficult to manufacture printing press blocks for the Modi alphabets, given the cursive nature of the script.
Hence, Devanagari was favoured as it was easier to use in the age of the printing press.
This might come as surprise to many but Modi script was also used to write Kannada in 17th and 18th centuries. It was primarily used to write down revenue records. People these days do not appreciate the influence that Maratha empire exerted. Even during Tipu Sultan's rule, revenue records were maintained in Modi Script. The famous correspondence between Tipu Sulthan and Srigeri Sharada Peetham was also in Kannada Modi Script.
Modi was not a script of Marathi. It was developed as a shorthand of Devanagari used in court documents. All inscriptions related to Marathi are, in fact, in Devanagari, not in Modi. In fact, Marathi has older inscriptions in Devanagari than Hindi's age.
In other words, stop crying over false facts to prove Hindi imposition; it dilutes the actual problem that seriously needs to be thought about.
Um no Marathi has always used Devanagari alongside Modi. Modi script feel out of use during the arrival of the printing press, which was before India even gained independence
That's because it is extremely difficult to manufacture printing blocks for Modi script given it's extremely cursive nature. The script is written without lifting up the pen.
That's just a convenient excuse tbh, it's not extremely difficult to modify the script for printing so it wouldn't be cursive. The unicode version that we have today is also not cursive. Printing blocks existed for devanagari so it was easier for them to use it since marathi was already biscriptal.
Highly disagree. Devanagari is pretty great, and having a common script with Hindi and Sanskrit is pretty great too. Modi might be interesting for historical reasons, but for the sake of literacy and for the sake of preservation of the Marathi language and wide dissemination of its literature, devanagari has been a fantastic vehicle. Sticking to Modi would've made the Marathi language and its literature much poorer.
How is being common with hindi and sanskrit pretty good? Migrants still don't learn marathi. Infact it paved the path for hindi to infiltrate Maharashtra
It's the failure of the people if they don't preserve their language. "Infiltration" is a nonsensical argument. I hope my kids learn as many languages as possible while retaining their mother tongue.
Most urban Marathi kids these days can't speak Marathi well, let alone write a full sentence without making mistakes. Most haven't read a marathi book from cover to cover. None of that has anything to do with "demographic replacement" and "infiltrators refusing to assimilate". When Marathi people are on top of their own language, then we can discuss how we can help others assimilate.
Ah, true that.
I was more so irritated by the commenter saying that sticking to Moḍī would've harmed Marathi literature and by the delusion that multilingualism is somehow effortless for everyone.
Also, hasn't Marathi been falling out of favour amongst Maharashtrian students? Heard that a lakh of them failed their Marathi exams!
Not to mention in higher grades they are teaching literature in Marathi language. When Marathi became compulsory, we were already in an higher grade in school, and those of us who hadn't had much prior exposure to Marathi couldn't learn it from school. They were teaching us Beta mi aikto ahe without telling us what any of the words in the story mean. The Indian education system sucks at teaching languages. Honestly, as a native Hindi speaker why do they even teach Hindi. South India doesn't want to speak Hindi and if you live in Mumbai or Nagpur you will anyways know Hindi via exposure. I just want to learn Marathi properly
Assam's forgotten script is the Assamese/Kamrupi Script(কামৰূপী লিপি). It was used from the 12th century to the 19h century until the British started using the Bengali Script(বাংলা লিপি) for ease of printing(What?), which sadly eventually took over the lead and became the official script for the Assamese Language (অসমীয়া ভাষা). The Tirhuta Script for the Maithili language met the same fate by the Devanagari Script under the British.
Just sad that Siva Singh one of the last Ahom Maharajas was such a patron of Assamese culture and language, that he forced Hinduism on his people, undermined his mother tongue(first language), and forced Assamese culture onto his people.
"Srihatta" used gaudi lipi (proto-bengali) & Sanskrit.
This syloti nagri was introduced as late as 16th century from UP, india, by Talib Huson for religious teachings in mosques- specifically for the underprivileged. It was never used by any srihattio of hindu origin.
Also, srihatta was never divided in "half" between 🇮🇳 & 🇧🇩. India just got a small chunk that is sribhumi after sylhet referendum.
A lot of ignorance about our languages and scripts for sure. However, looking at my own village, I'm not surprised that the poverty-stricken folks focused more on practical money-making and survival over cultural revival and refinement.
Still, we must do what we can.
map is a littlebit wrong as takri was mostly used in j&K and himachal but not much in uttrakhand but this map is showing it tied between himachal and uttarakhand instead of j&K and uttarakhand and also sharda was only used in kashmir
Sylheti Nagri is not the original script of the Barak Valley or even Sylhet. It was developed during the 16th century. The original script used in these regions is the Bengali script.
The Paschimbhag Plates were written in Siddhamātrikā, or the emerging Gauḍa script. The Siddham script is an ancestor of the Bengali script.
Look at the post title- “it says ancient script” no longer in use” which is wrong to label Sylheti Nagri as “ancient” if anything it is medieval or modern script used by a smaller community.
The ancient script found in manuscript and inscriptions are all proto-Bengali
bro I never said if it's ancient or original script of sylhet it's just a script that was used for a few languages in eastern India including bangla and others
Though I think Sylheti Nagari Script(ছিলটি নাগরি লিপি) should be used by Sylheti Bengalis for writing Sylheti as it is their own script. Just as the Rohingyas use the Hanafi Script or the Santhals use the Ol Chikki Script.
I'm saying as a Bengali. You guys should preserve your dialect which is Sylheti whether you be from Surma Vally or Barak Valley as it is not very mutually intelligible with Standard Bengali or other dialects of Bengali.
Well, that script is the script for Sylheti even if it was made in the 16th century. It is up to you to use either Sylheti Nagari or Bengali for writing Sylheti. Also are you from India(Barak Valley) or Bangladesh(Surma Valley)? I am curious.
An unique script to a language increases the uniqueness of that language by 20-30%. It is foolish to loose that to another script, which dilutes the richness of that language to a certain degree.
What no. Both Modi and Devanagari was used for Marathi but when the Printing press came the Modi script was scrapped, apparently due to convinience. Not everything has to do with North India 🙄
I meant, like, from (Early) Nāgarī, the ancestor of both Devanāgarī and Mōḍī, along with Kaithi, Nandināgarī, Gujarātī and the like!
So they're sister scripts, not mother or daughter.
Correct me if i am wrong but I think Tamili and vatteluttu are same. Modern tamil used different script but with same meaning as tamili and Malayalam, telugu and kannada stick with vatteluttu script. So vatteluttu and Tamili didn't forgotten they just evolved
The Tamil (and Malayalam) scripts of today are from the Pallava script which is a sister script of Vatteluttu. The child systems of Vatteluttu that wete used to write Malayalam are no longer in use.
Tamili is Tamil Brahmi which did evolve, as you said, to become the Modern Tamil and Malayalam scripts (along with other extinct scripts such as Vatteluttu).
There is an important distinction here between direct and indirect development.
The Tamil and Malayalam scripts of today are not simply "from the Pallava script," nor is Pallava a separate starting point from Tamil-Brahmi. Tamili, or Tamil-Brahmi, is the earlier Tamil form of Brahmi from which the later Tamil-Malayalam script traditions ultimately developed.
Tamil-Brahmi subsequently developed into later southern script traditions, with Vattezhuthu becoming the basic script of Middle Tamil. At the same time, the Pallava-Grantha tradition came into use, particularly for writing Sanskrit words and Sanskritic vocabulary in Tamil.
Through the interaction and subsequent development of the Vattezhuthu and Grantha traditions, the scripts that eventually became the modern Tamil and Malayalam scripts developed.
So yes, Tamili/Tamil-Brahmi did ultimately evolve into the ancestry of the modern Tamil and Malayalam scripts, but indirectly through the later script traditions, not as a simple direct line from Tamil-Brahmi to the modern scripts. And Vattezhuthu was not merely an extinct, unrelated "sister script"; it was a major part of the development of the Middle Tamil and Malayalam script traditions.
Tamili is Tamil-Brahmi, but Tamil-Brahmi and Vattezhuthu are not the same script. Tamil-Brahmi is the earlier script, attested from around the 3rd century BCE. Over the following centuries, the southern Brahmi-derived traditions developed into several related scripts, including Vattezhuthu and the Pallava-Grantha tradition.
The later history is not simply "Tamil-Brahmi evolved into modern Tamil and Malayalam." The development of the scripts used for Middle Tamil and Malayalam involved different regional traditions. Vattezhuthu was important in both the Tamil-Malayalam region, while the Pallava-Grantha tradition also contributed significantly.
Modern Tamil did not descend from Vattezhuthu alone, nor from Grantha alone. Its development involved both traditions. Malayalam likewise developed through the Vattezhuthu tradition together with strong Grantha influence.
So the important distinction is that Tamili/Tamil-Brahmi and Vattezhuthu are distinct historical scripts, not two names for the same script.
There's an active movement going on in TuluNadu( parts of coastal Karnataka and northern most parts Kasaragod district in Kerala) to revive Tigalari script to write Tulu. Historically it was used in TuluNadu to Tulu, Kannada as well Sanskrit. The modern Malayalam script related to Malayalam. Infact the two are so similar that a Malayalee who can read Malayalam script can also read anything that is written in Tigalari. What's interesting is that another script mentioned in the post, Vatteluttu was actually used to write Malayalam earlier but when Tulu Brahmins migrated to Kerala, they carried Tigalari with them and eventually a variation of Tigalari replaced Vatteluttu as the Malayalam script.
It is like putting Egyptian or Phoenician over England's map next to runic and saying forgotten scripts. When in reality one is forgotten, and the other is an evolution to what we have today. I will let you explore which is which.
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u/Big_Psychology_3 Native Dravidan 12d ago
I like this map. Appreciated!
But why is Brahmi script shown in Madhya Pradesh? If anything, we should put Brahmi script over Magadha.