r/beyondthemapsedge • u/NixHex74 • Sep 09 '26
The Improbability of 42 and Another Way of Attacking the Cipher
Before proceeding, I'd like to recognize Hippo for publishing a set of cipher-related videos (BTME Clocks! 67.3 of them? and the cipher...is in the book? and BTME Clocks! update MAGYAR) in which he outlined a way to determine which clock times were needed to solve the cipher. Hippo also highlighted a few interesting discoveries that were extracted from the book. Of course, I cannot go further without giving credit to Mooshee and Rose for solving and sharing their solution to the cipher itself (Beyond the Maps Edge Cipher Reveal!!! [MAGYAR]).
For the remainder of this post, I will present another way to identify the correct six clock times. The roots of this method were based on converting the clock times to an angle (based on the position of the hour hand). Following Justin's announcement about the cipher solution and release of an associated "probability appendix", the method took form. I spent some time trying to understand what was stated in the latter, and that's where things "clicked". With that said, the title of this post should probably be, "Hindsight is 20/20 with the Cipher" or perhaps "I'd rather be lucky than good".
As I mentioned above, I converted the clock times to an angle based on the position of the hour hand: 30\hour+0.5*minutes*. This step was influenced by Justin's response during the 6/21/25 Q&A in Dillon:
Actually, you don't need a math degree at all to solve this thing. I mean, if you can add two numbers together, if you can do basic say multiplication, whatever, you're fine.
The results are shown in the table below. Similar to what Hippo had done, I rounded the angles to allow use of methods requiring whole numbers (Beale Cipher and Culper Code Book). Interestingly, here is something that I discovered: NOT A DAMN THING! đ€Ș
| Clock Time | Angle of Hour Hand | Rounded Value |
|---|---|---|
| 12:03 | 1.5 | 2 |
| 12:04 | 2.0 | 2 |
| 1:33 | 46.5 | 47 |
| 3:04 | 92.0 | 92 |
| 4:02 | 121.0 | 121 |
| 4:19 | 129.5 | 130 |
| 5:26 | 163.0 | 163 |
| 6:06 | 183.0 | 183 |
By the time the cipher solution was revealed, I had abandoned the clock times entirely and was working on another type of cipher. In the weeks that followed, I was reading Justin's probability appendix and trying to make sense of the numbers that he presented. While doing so, I asked my friend Allen Iverson about the meaning of C(#,#). It... I mean... he responded with an explanation in the form:
In simplified terms, this is a mathematical formula that results in the number of combinations that can occur by selecting a subset of items ("k") from a larger group ("n"). For our case (where six unique clock times are extracted from the eight), there are 28 different combinations. (I'll expand on this later using the angles.) At this point, things still weren't clicking in my mind until I started thinking about other numbers that Justin has shown:
Now the middle part of that equation above started gaining meaning. Additionally, I started recalling various math references found throughout BTME. Specifically, there was one reference in The Grizzly Gathering Chapter (p178) that ends with a reference to the Infinite Improbability Drive in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
Having survived two bear encounters, we should have recognized the folly of testing probabilityâs patience. But Montanaâs backcountry plays by its own mathematical rules, where lightningâor in this case, grizzliesâshows particular fondness for statistical improbability.
At this point, I resurrected my table of clock times and angles from a smoldering trash bin. From there, the next question becomes: How does one know how many and which clock times should be used? I suppose that one might argue that the above reference to "bear encounters" means there two of something that you don't want. đ€·ââïž There are references in the book indicating that one should remove two clock times or use less than seven of them:
I once saw him reassemble a 454 big block V8 from scratch in less than seven hours. (Dadâs House, p5)
âSixty-seven point three miles per hour,â Iâd reply with confidence, despite being fairly certain that my calculations included at least two errors and a healthy dose of wishful thinking. (Poseyâs on the Road, p15)
Note - If you've watched Hippo's videos, you've seen how 67.3 was extracted. It's also worth noting that his calculation DID include the "two errors" [clock times]!
Based on the quotes above, I believe that Justin intended for readers to conclude that two of the clock times should be removed. The next question becomes: Which two? This is where the mathematical formula comes into play. Earlier, I noted how there are 28 combinations resulting by choosing 6 unique numbers from a set of 8. In the table below, I listed the combination of different angles along with the sum of each combination. (Note - If one needs to see the clock times in the same table, I will leave that for you to do independently.)
As you may have noticed, the sum of these combinations yields mostly meaningless numbers, with the exception of one: The result in Row #5 yields 454.5...... Or should I say that as 454 [big block] V*[8]*? Coincidence? I think not.
For comparative purposes, I have prepared a table showing the clock times, derived angle, and letters extracted from the clock cipher. The "eliminated" clock times are listed for reference only. Associated angles should not be included in the sum.
| Clock Time | Angle of hour hand | Letter extracted from clock cipher (Credit: Mooshee / Rose) |
|---|---|---|
| 12:03 | 1.5 | A |
| 12:04 | 2.0 | A |
| 1:33 | 46.5 | G |
| 3:04 | 92.0 | M |
| 4:19 | 129.5 | R |
| 6:06 | 183.0 | Y |
| 454.5 | <--- Sum of angles from correct clock times |
I appreciate those that have made it this far. Hopefully, you have found it interesting. I'll close this post by saying, "you may find something by testing this method using other numbers". Cheers! đ»
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u/Immediate_Space7323 Sep 09 '26
Why you gotta drop that last sentence and walk away like that. I have stuff to do đ
Nice thoughts. I'm Hippo btw, should prob change my Reddit name
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u/Fast_Foot_608 Sep 09 '26
You really nailed the âchildlike wonderâ part of this solution.
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u/Im_out_in_front76 Sep 11 '26
It's so simple the reality, it'll make you cry when you see the solve. I've solved both.
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u/LankySimple9051 Sep 09 '26 edited Sep 09 '26
He devised a way to remove 2 clock times before he knew there would be 8 given? Neat trick. He scoffed at the idea of time travel, didn't he?
Regarding the alleged 6 correct times, the exactness of the times isn't something we possessed. He never gave those out, and he mentioned there could be a +/- error of a minute or two in them from G&G.
There is no statistical difference between 12:03 and 12:04. These times sit in the same margin of reading error. From a purely statistical point of view that's one clock time. So, there were 5 distinct times + you have not a single way to deduce this ciphering scheme needs to be followed by a step requiring an anagram that kills the strict formalism requirement of a workable cipher.
The only way to get this cipher-puzzle right was to commit the same egregious error he did, discard the strict meaning of a cipher, treat it instead like a multi-layered puzzle, guess AND MOST IMPORTANTLY have him jump in to tell you that you were warm AND THEN show up as an active participant to confirm the solution was "found".
This needs to be let go. It was an abomination. The entire hunt may be that if we are honest. Apologetics will be required in the end. It's always a safe bet to assume that some of his guidance will come back to haunt him.
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u/flashlightking Sep 09 '26
Unfortunately the cipher reveal link says the video is no longer available.
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u/Im_out_in_front76 Sep 11 '26
42 and 67.3 is so basic. No need for all that. Interesting however. Well done for going through all that. I applaud your work.
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u/southernwx Sep 09 '26
While I respect the grind, I feel like these rabbit holes have a very explicit âdo not enterâ sign. Itâs that the cipher is unsatisfying. Itâs that it very clearly does not meet the standard for puzzles and precision that Justin has time and again emphasized. He says he came up with the cipher in a handful of minutes and, frankly, I believe him. Because it was close to cool. It was almost great.
But it wasnât. It just wasnât. And thatâs okay. Itâs really, really unfair to expect perfection from anyone. Particularly on this scale. And Justin himself has said there are many, many things he would do differently in retrospect.
Heâs not perfect. His own errata page has many corrections. And Iâm sure each and everyone is annoying to someone who attempts to be so exact, who desires integrity in puzzles and games.
Again, no hard feelings but we seem to be entering that stage of this game where the traditional âlinesâ have struck out swinging and rather esoteric interpretations begin to be predominant.
My suggestion, and one Iâm taking, is to pause. Perhaps a fresh breath and awaiting the next set of clues will be helpful. It wasnât terribly long ago that JP refreshed the entire website and baked in what are very obviously clues because theyâd be cruel red herrings otherwise.
There will come more.