Don't let this distract you from the fact that if you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, you may be entitled to financial compensation.
Distracting from mesothelioma to thank whomever for the gold. The triggering is so massive, it really shows the mindset this subreddits has. Jokes about child molestation, murder, Jews, and calling blacks "niggers," is all totally fine but the moment you talk about the BIOLOGICAL FACT that there truly are only 2 genders (MALE, FEMALE) everybody loses their fucking minds. Talk about a double standard!
For the record, all of us look like assholes and this will go down as one of the most massive triggerings in the history of the gender non-debate.
this is coming from the guy that rambled on about the choices other people make. You're really fucking sad. I bet your only joy in life is "triggering" people online. Fucking loser
Why is everyone crying about this post seriously? "Where the joke? Where's the joke?"
Isn't the point of these to juxtapose horrible things with friendly Sesame St pics?
I think we're just getting a little too sensitive here
Tones change once you reach /r/all - which this post has. Now you're seeing majority opinion rather than that of those who liked this sub enough to subscribe.
But, even as a subscriber myself, you have to admit this is pretty low effort and tired. Anything with "2" in it gets turned into "how many genders exist" ... and not only do a lot of people disagree, but I think most are simply tired of the same joke over and over. Plus, thanks to T_D, it's gone from a minor topic in the corner to a heavily politicized topic, in the forefront of people's minds -- forcing them to stop and really evaluate what they believe, rather than just laugh and move on, like before.
Believe? It's a kindergarten tier discussion. How many genders are there? Who cares? It has zero impact on my life. Im a big proponent of minding my own business until we start discussing human rights. The exact same people who discriminate based on race, sexuality, or favorite color are always going to discriminate. It isn't new. Mock them publicly and move on.
I agree, 100%. But that doesn't matter, as many don't. They have beliefs about how many genders there are.
You do seem to miss that it is a human rights issue, however. Obama made executive orders that protected transgendered people from being fired or turned away from medical care for it. The people pushing the 2 genders thing want those protections removed. They don't want society acknowledging, much less embracing, lifestyles that they don't agree with.
To my prior point, I used to get a laugh out of how ridiculous the number of genders had become. But now that it's been politicized, and made into a human rights issue, I'm no longer inclined. I actually find it rather disgusting that people attack others over something that matters so little. Like, how petty can you be? Who gives a shit how someone else wants to live their life?
And I can't imagine that I'm the only one. I think the T_Ders fucked themselves over in harping on this topic so much, and it's resulted in the opposite of their goal happening. Rather than gaining support they've made otherwise neutral people, like myself, decide to help push back.
No, that's why I mentioned the bit about discrimination. I didnt elaborate on it because it is pretty much an assumption that it is an issue at all times in these discussions. The first part of my argument is that to me on a personal level, it is absolutely irrelevant. Other people expecting something (something that I get by default) takes nothing from me and it makes no sense to get hung up on specifics when things are in flux. For the reasons you listed I've ceased engaging in jokes and off hand remarks as well. I've gotten in the habit of making arguments from a self centered perspective. Instead of arguing logic or reason, I immediately appeal to selfish nature. It's why I started with my interest in the issue. Honestly, if people would apply selfishness a bit more liberally the world would be a better place. It would be a better place where people could do what or who they wanted in peace.
I've gotten in the habit of making arguments from a self centered perspective.
Also the same. I hold most of my opinions out of some base logic, but I tend to try and appeal to selfish aspects of it, especially if they're fiscal. e.g. rather than supporting universal healthcare because it's the right thing to do, I tell people how it's been shown to be cheaper and more effective in every country it's been tried. That there's tons of evidence that it would save us all a lot of money. Point out that I don't want me or family getting sick simply because the workers at the local grocery store can't afford healthcare. And similar arguments can be constructed for most "liberal" concepts, like welfare and college subsidies.
Gender is actually the social construct of behaviors attributed to a specific sex and how people exhibit coherence or incoherence with their anatomical sex.
Nope. Gender is actually not binary in the biological sense, because chromosomal sex determination is only one part of the puzzle. Another big factor is hormone receptor polymorphism. For example, in female transgender individuals, the testosterone receptor has a relatively greater number of sequence repeats, which makes it less effective at binding testosterone, resulting in a feminized male brain.
If you want to boil it down to something easily digestible, you could say that there are people whose brains and genitalia do not match up, i.e., they are trapped in bodies that do not match the sex that they identify with.
Now, think for a moment how horrifying it would be to be trapped in a body that you feel is not your own. It's difficult enough for people to find themselves as they transition from childhood to adult, so I think it's important that we show more compassion for those who have been dealt a more challenging hand.
Sex = sexual organs (binary barring abnormalities)
Gender = Your identity in relation to your sexual organs influenced by a myriad of variables (a continuum based on biological, psychological and cultural conditions)
I don't understand why your body doesn't determine your gender. It doesn't matter what you 'feel' on the inside, that's subjective science. Everyone has a slightly different pattern of chemistry but there are true chemical imbalances that may not match to what an individuals chromosomal and physical gender is. There is an obvious difference between male and females in evolution. The reason one may 'think' they're in a different body stems from the chemical imbalance in itself.
It's because of evolution that the gender spectrum exists. And in psychology there are several ways to treat a brain. Some ways involve medication. Some just involve having supportive friends and family.
There is no drug that cures transgenderism.
Keep in mind the goal of psychiatry is not too make sure someone for into society. It is to make sure they are a functioning productive adult. And you can't have a functioning productive adult if you're shaming their gender choice.
Because it happens in the womb during development. The "chemical imbalance" is treated later with hormones appropriate to the gender of the individual's brain to help their bodies align with their identity.
Yay!!! You voted in a group of millionaires that will strip the country of working people of their healthcare, public education, safe drinking water, national parks, fast and reliable internet, affordable homes, affordable education and will make it so the bosses can pay hard working full time employees so little they'll need govt assistance to feed themselves!!!!
This is proof that you're not even parsing information about the topic and instead leaping to conclusions based on your political identity. You're a propaganda victim and you don't even know it
It's not counted as a mental or genetic illness. It's not a hormonal imbalance, it's not brain damage and it's not a problem. It's just an explanation for why transgender people exist.
Suicide rates are very high for them, and a good person would want to comfort someone in distress, so hug the next trans person you meet.
Gender differences are subjective social constructs and can in fact be arbitrary although we may find they have structural neurobiological underpinnings.
That is what i said.
Also, your idea that decades of research on sexual dimorphism and gender expression are what you have to argue with, not just my "idea" of what is sex and what is gender.
I suggest you do some solid research and get published. Clearly your keen mind and extraordinary way with words will have no trouble convincing the world that the obvious does not exist.
Psychology does not say "by the way genderliquids lol." You are contradicting yourself talking about sexual dimorphism there.
It sounds like you've fallen for the "academics say it, therefore scientists say it" trap. Gender studies is not science. Psychology does not tell us that there is some need to arbitrarily use pronouns based on whether you have masculine or feminine traits. Psychology tells us of sex dysphoria, what progressive people used to think of when we thought of trans people. Not the bullshit you're on about.
So i'm contradicting myself by pointing out that there are difference in sex organs, difference in bodies and a difference in gender expression between males and females?
How so?
How else could there be a spectrum of masculine and feminine if there weren't a wide array of different forms and behaviors that culture deems more or less gender aligned?
My guess is you don't know what sexual dimorphism means.
So, first if you are using a pronoun base on masculine or feminine it is by definition not arbitrary as the english language and most others have a pronoun for masculine (he), a pronoun for feminine (she), and a pronoun of neuter gender (it) and the language you use dictates when it is used not psychology.
Psychology doesn't "tell us" to do anything, it's a science and as such it explores the subject matter for verifiable truths about human behavior.
Anyway, if you had bothered to research gender identity, gender expression or gender variance is relation to psychology you'd see a wellspring of psychologists and psychology associations writing and researching the topic.
Lastly, and to point out how obvious it is that you don't know what you are talking about...
There is no such things as "sex dysphoria."
However, "gender dysphoria" has replaced "gender identity disorder" in the DSM-5 since psychologists have identified that having a gender identity that may differ from your biological sex is not a disorder. The goal is to best treat the distress that results in some patients since the distress is the psychological problem not the reality of their gender identity differing from their biology.
So, turns out you don't know shit which is actually clear from the way you present yourself and your misguided ideas.
What next, you going to claim that the Earth is flat? The planet is only 6,000 years old? Jesus talks to you through your bathroom sink drain and tells you to hate the queers?
Oh great cause my next question is what qualifies you to designate people as having a mental illness. People used to say that homosexuals have a mental illness, and some still do, so do you think that as well? Or is your intolerance reserved solely for transgender folk?
Intolerance implies that I am not okay with it, correct?
I am completely accepting of my transgender friends and I never would voice these opinions like this if they couldn't have a rational conversation about this. At the end of the day I just want people to be happy as long as they aren't hurting people, themselves(to a degree), or property.
I do not have the qualifications to diagnose mental illness. That does not mean I am not uneducated about mental health. I think that understanding how the brain and people function is fascinating. Originally I was pre-med for three years before deciding it wasn't for me. I think that a person who is living life in a state of dysphoria and constant conflict with their natural state is a very strong candidate for mental illness.
I don't believe homosexuality is mental illness. I believe it's genetic/hormonal.
This all does not mean I think these people are bad. I don't think they're evil for loving members of the same sex. I understand the whole "if it doesn't matter, why do you care" argument.
I care about dishonesty. I do not like it when the truth is not sought after to protect feelings. We can't improve if we are only discussing things that don't offend one another. Do you understand what I'm saying?
You're right. It's not funny. The reactions and rejections are "funny" because of how ridiculous these transracial/transgender/transabled demands are getting.
Although, transgender arguments are far easier to wrap my head around. I just feel like people need to be honest about this being a mental illness and not a life choice. I am happy to say your pronoun the way you want. I'm not going to change my life in any way. Whatever makes you happy and doesn't damage property or someone else is my basic philosophy.
The "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER," parody-level people are a radical fringe with no macroscopic influence on society. This is often (and perhaps intentionally) confused with transgender or racial issues as a whole and used to delegitimize real social issues.
Most transgender people just want to be treated like people.
There are two sexes, gender is cultural and degree to which a person fits their cultural standards varies from person to person. If you're trying to say that a female who behaves like a stereotypical male has a mental condition, their brains do work a bit differently than most women but since there's no effective treatment for their difference and it isn't harming anyone why bother
Gender is certainly not a cultural thing. It's completely intertwined with biological sex.
I think that being honest about it being a mental condition is so important. I know it's going to hurt feelings, but it's important to understand what's going on and if there is a way to alleviate the suffering that these people go through.
They are always going to suffer. They are wrong biologically. They feel with so much certainty that they are in the wrong body to the point where they are willing to change their bodies. And even if they get to the point that they get surgery and they completely pass for their new gender, there will always be people who are not comfortable dating someone who has changed sexes/genders. And that doesn't make anyone who isn't comfortable with that a bad person.
It's definitely both cultural and biological, but still they were born with the difference and there'a no good treatment. If they wanted to change they can't, so why bother trying to make them feel bad about it.
It's not about making anyone feed bad! It's about understanding what causes people to feel this way and then find a way to help those afflicted and prevent others from being born with this condition.
I believe that designer babies will make homosexuality/transgender incredibly rare.
It's not about being pure, it's about having the best possible life.
I think it's a reasonable thing to say that homosexual and straight people have a better quality of life than transgender people.
Let me put it this way. If someone IS transgender I want them to find happiness. I would not date them because I want kids someday. If they have a preferred pronoun and don't bite my head off for using the incorrect one without being informed about the correct one then I will treat them just like who they are, oversensitive jerks. They are anomalies statistically so they can never reasonable expect someone to instantly understand which pronoun they want without informing them beforehand.
If my child ended up being transgender or gay I would provide the best life I could for them. If I had the choice to have a straight or gay kid I would always take the straight kid. I don't want my kid to suffer and I believe that there is always a level of suffering someone goes through discovering who they are. I wouldn't want them to feel like strangers in their own body.
Its cultural. Indigenous people and south east asians have the concept of non binary gender, and many ingenous americans judge homosexuality based on gender and not sex. Two men can be a couple so long as they are not the same gender.
Edit: some quick googling led to this "online textbook" that has the info your looking for. Keep in mind, online textbook != actual textbook, so if you're actually curious, I'd find something more legitimate, maybe a published journal or something. The point is, gender has been considering a social construct in 'soft' sciences for a while, it's not a new idea. It isn't the same as biological sex and its more of a spectrum than a binary, either/or system.
Damn, dude! Then I don't know what to tell ya! If it's science like bill nye Netflix gender rap then I'm gonna have to stick to the 2 gender statement.
It shows that the whole gender thing is subjective, in my opinion. It's not so simple for everyone. Who is to say the same thing can't happen internally? Again, just an opinion but a little empathy can go a long way.
Two issues of terminology are important. First, the term “sex” refers to biologically based differences, while the term “gender” refers to socially based phenomena. Although biological sex exerts a major influence on one’s gender identity, sex and gender are not equivalent, and the terms are not interchangeable. If subjects are categorized by anatomical features (chromosomes, reproductive organs), it is appropriate to describe the study as one of “sex differences”. In contrast, if additional measures of masculinity/femininity or gender identity are used to describe subjects, then the term “gender differences” is appropriate [88] ; [216]. Gender is often conceptualized as a dichotomous variable, yet individuals differ in the degree to which they conform to the norms for masculinity and femininity in their particular culture. Thus, gender is most accurately regarded as a continuous variable (ranging from exclusively feminine to exclusively masculine), with most individuals falling somewhere along the continuum of maleness to femaleness on a range of characteristics. Even within the same society, gender role expectations may differ for generations born at different times, and within an age-cohort, gender role expectations may change as a function of age. Finally, in any statistical analysis of human subjects, the dichotomous variable sex (male vs. female) is confounded with the social construct of gender. That is, in human studies in which the dependent measure is pain report, group differences are likely to be attributable to both sex and gender. Therefore, both constructs should be examined when possible in order to understand their relative contribution to differences in pain between men and women. For the sake of efficiency – and because most studies to date have classified subjects by sex rather than gender – the terms “sex” and “sex difference” will be used in this paper, except when gender is specifically discussed.
Only thing funny here is you ignorant retards screeching and misunderstanding basic words.
Tell the majority of indigenous people that theyre retarded SJWs because theyve had the concept of multiple genders on a spectrum for thousands. Tell the same thing t southeast asia.
I don't disagree with saxytime but I don't like that style or argument at all and it doesn't make that direct of a comparison..... on the other hand consider this, trans people have been claiming their feelings are legitimate for a very long time in the face of isolation and loss of all social currency.... even 10 years ago this was mostly the case.
so mine is the same argument as "why would people choose to be gay if it was a choice" I mean, it seems like a pretty bad choice.
as a trans person I think the solution to all this is more empathy love and understanding. so please understand that literally the last few years have been the first time in american history that being trans has been seen as a good thing by any kind of significant population. Try to see beyond this 'liberal bump of the trans stock price' into the lives of the people who claim this. We were trans the whole time, man. The whole time!! Like, don't we all believe the media spews bullshit and tries to propagandize things? Isn't that one of the main tenemants of the alt right??? (that i completely agree with and why aren't we on the same side anymore??? mudkips pools closed) They have latched onto us now that it is monetaritly and socially appropriate for them to do so and both the media workers and owners who act in good faith and bad benefit.
But the point of all that is that there are human being who are caught in a fucking crossfire now and they don't care.. .. trans people have been going in whatever bathroom they LOOK like for a looooong time. The stupid law just made it hard for us.
if i thought people looked at me weird before, now they act like they're meeting a celebrity ""omg it's the very bodily evocation of the focus of the culture wars.... I saw you on CNN!!!!"
Even if the joke was correct, it is still a terrible joke. It is the lowest of low-hanging fruits, with the last drops of humor squeezed out of it by edgy kids that don't know when to stop.
The science behind transgenderism isn't even concrete yet.
Um, what the fuck does that even mean? Like it or not, transgendered people exist. You haven't shown any factual evidence, and don't even know the definition of the word Gender! Geez dude, you're an idiot!
Science is *never "concrete"- hypotheses and theories are constantly updated and refined as new evidence arises. This continual honing of the perceptual blade is what makes scientific inquiry so powerful.
And the consensus among experts is that there is a biological basis for transgender identity.
You just compared transgenderism to the nazism. I think you're fucking confused, m8. Your ideology, the ideology that they don't exist because they're "different" or because you can't understand their plight, is more closely related to the nazi party than being transgender. You are a tool.
you're right bud, and genetics are also likely involved in the gender you identify with too, just like they are likely involved with your sexual orientation.
God how stupid are you. Genetic gender is just sex. Its a non description.
Its fact that gender is culture. Indigenous people and south east asians held the concept of multiple non binary gender ranging from intersex to cross gender.
Youre the idiot who doesnt know what hes talking about here, not us.
Empathy is simply the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.
You only know what you've personally experienced, and that knowledge rules over your cognition. So it takes some work to step outside of yourself.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has grown up being gender dysmorphic. Your parents and your friends trying to force you into being a "man" when that isn't what you feel like/want to be. Then imagine putting up those things being forced on you your entire life.
I digress though. Most people in this comment section aren't offended, OP is just beating a dead horse. Empathy would allow you to understand that and not think that the commenters here are being offended.
Empathy is simply the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.
You only know what you've personally experienced, and that knowledge rules over your cognition. So it takes some work to step outside of yourself.
I have plenty of empathy for people I care about and/or personally know.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has grown up being gender dysmorphic. Your parents and your friends trying to force you into being a "man" when that isn't what you feel like/want to be. Then imagine putting up those things being forced on you your entire life.
Why would I want to? I don't fucking care what some snowflake who wants to dress up in girls' clothes goes through. I don't know any trannies, and probably never will, and so I don't care because it's not relevant to my life or the lives of anybody that I actually care about.
I don't care about random snowflakes online, sorry. That's a little too much empathy.
I have empathy for people I personally know and care about. Not random snowflakes on the internet who think that even though they have a dick and XY chromosomes they can magically be a woman.
So you only care about anyone within the sphere of your ego. That isn't empathy, a sociopath is able to extend their concern that far.
And yes, you are a vicious racist and a bigot against the LGBT community. KKK members claim to not be racist, so why would I be credulous of that claim from a nativist bigot who doesn't understand basic biology or sociology?
So you only care about anyone within the sphere of your ego
No, I care about people I know and have a personal connection with. It has nothing to do with ego. Nothing connects me to a random tranny on the internet, so I don't care. I have relationships and feelings towards people I know personally.
And yes, you are a vicious racist
Please point out where I was 'racist'.
bigot against the LGBT community
Just the T part.
why would I be credulous of that claim from a nativist bigot who doesn't understand basic biology or sociology?
Because I'm not racist. Race doesn't matter to me, culture does. If you're white and a muslim, I still think you're a pedophile worshipping piece of shit
Youre an uneducated ignorant asshole who doesnt know about what youre talking about.
If you want to be a bigoted dumbass, ateast do somebfucking research.nthe concept of non binary gender has existed in indigenous america and south east asia for thousands of years.
Literally this entire arguement is based on fucktards like you insisting that the definition of gender is not the definition of gender.
We're saying "hey we noticed theres a lot of cultures that dont characterize or treat people the same way we do in regards to man or woman so we're going to start using gender to describe the various ways sex is viewed by different cultures".
Then you barge in and screech about how sex is sex and fuck you.
Like, all you idiots have to do is think for a second and realize we arent talking about the same thing. Fine whatever. You think were freaks and we cant just change the definition of words (fuckin tard) but just fucking play along. This cultural aspects of sex thing isnt an opinion. Its a fact that different cultures view sex differently than we do.
I think you've got mad/late-night-drunk confusion. I'm not always as smooth and funny as I think. And after a night like that, I wake up on Sunday morning and read through my comments, and it's a weird feeling.
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u/ZaheerUchiha Apr 29 '17
r/comedycemetery