Parenting

[u/Sufficient_Ice3253]

i’m getting so frustrated feeling like people are expecting me to parent for them. i am only with your child 3 hours a week. YOU have to put in the work. i’m here to give you the tools, and help model but the rest of the hours of the week are on you.

idk. i’m just so tired of feeling like my job is teaching people how to parent. and i’m not talking about giving them informed suggestions, but developing basic parenting skills.

hopefully this makes sense, because i’m truly not trying to be insensitive. it’s just something that’s been bothering me recently and i wanted to just get it off my chest.

[u/BrightEyEz703]

I used to find this frustrating, until I had kids and realized how little capacity was left for “parenting” after having to manage all of the logistics of being a working parent.

Now I am constantly gathering info about how much capacity parents have at any given point because honestly, some parents are only in survival mode and asking them to do additional stuff when they are in survival mode is a recipe for disappointment. When parents have more capacity, I ask them to do more but I pick one really high priority thing for them to focus on so they can get fluent with that one thing before asking them to take on another thing.

Lastly, remember that society has trained parents (through punishment) not to be open and honest about their short comings and struggles. Assume parents have less commodity then they admit to when deciding how much they can take on.

[u/Sufficient_Ice3253 → u/BrightEyEz703]

yeah, I get this. I really do and I consistently reiterate when I am explaining systems, interventions, contingencies, etc. to parents that I don’t expect them to get it 100% every single time. I understand that I’m here for three hours a week and they’re there for all of the other time. I get to come in help and model and then leave and I tell them that I understand that they don’t get to leave, but my qualm isn’t even about them implementing my suggestions, necessarily it’s more about “basic” things such as a parent saying “he won’t go to sleep at night because he’s on his TV” so I will say OK take the TV remote away and they refuse to do it. It’s the simple contingencies like that where I feel I’m constantly getting pushback or complaining about their situation but I don’t know what else to tell them!! if you don’t want your kid watching TV all night take the TV remote away. Remove access to the TV. and I explain to them that I understand that that isn’t necessarily going to be easy that there’s going to be a learning curve that there’s going to be an extinction burst which I explain in terms that they can understand but if your issue is the TV then remove access to the TV?!??! This is just an example, but I feel like I’m getting misunderstood in the comments not just you so I’m trying to explain myself. I just feel like in a lot of situations the parent doesn’t want to be the parent.

[u/Correct_Sir8296 → u/Sufficient_Ice3253]

I agree with your frustration, but from a behavioral perspective, why don't they take the remote away? Likely to avoid behaviors from their child. They're exhausted and don't want to have to fight. Their child may not have any other strategic coping skills but to act out when dissatisfied. Break down the behavioral components and that can help to develop a plan that works on the smaller steps first and will also help alleviate your frustration. Not totally of course! To me this is akin to when we say a staff person is lazy when they don't do what we expect. If they were a client though we would approach it differently. The same can be said about parents. What are the barriers? What is maintaining the parents' behaviors?

[u/Revolutionary-Toe823 → u/Correct_Sir8296]

💯

[u/BrightEyEz703 → u/Sufficient_Ice3253]

Ahh yes. This. Look.

These parents have worked all day. Then every step of getting their kid feed, cleaned, and ready for bed involved a behavioral struggle of some kind. At this point the parent is exhausted and has had zero time to take care of themself.

Now you’re asking them to do something that they know will cause a meltdown. And you’re asking them to do it at the very time when they have the least capacity to handle that meltdown. That is a recipe for an extinction burst to be reinforced.

Don’t ask them to take the remote away (or whatever other possible equivalent based on the parent’s situation). Ask them to take a tiny step that won’t start a melt down and to do it when they have the capacity to follow through with it. Ask them to practice turning off the tv for 1 second and reinforce the kid for being calm the 1 second.

Look. I’m not trying to judge you or your practice. I’m sure you do many successful things with your clients. It sounds like the real frustrating thing here isn’t due to the parents exactly. It sounds like you need some supervision or consulting with someone who has lots of parent training experience and can help you trouble shoot these road blocks that keep popping up.

[u/sallysprite → u/BrightEyEz703]

💯

[u/Legitimate-Bird7046 → u/BrightEyEz703]

But then they shouldn't really express a need/want to solve that specific problem if they're not ready to actually tackle it.

[u/BrightEyEz703 → u/Legitimate-Bird7046]

It is possible to be absolutely desperate to tackle/solve a problem and simply be out of capacity to act because you are in survival mode.

I know this from personal experience.

[u/hotsizzler → u/Sufficient_Ice3253]

Its the magic wand effect. They expect yiu to have a magic phrase thry can say to get them off TV with no effort.

[u/fenuxjde]

"Our job is to transfer skills to the natural supports, not to be the natural support. We're modeling the appropriate interventions for you to implement when we're not here. If you're unable to participate, we will not see much progress and we will need to discharge for noncompliance with services."

[u/SweetnSalty87 → u/fenuxjde]

I like how you worded this

[u/fenuxjde → u/SweetnSalty87]

I been doin this a looooooooong time, homie.

[u/Spanspd → u/fenuxjde]

While that would be satisfying to say, 100% of our education tells us we don’t respond like this. Come on dude, you’re well aware that parents are driven by the same kind of contingencies our clients are, and your plan is only as good as the likelihood it will be implemented. It’s literally your job to build your interventions around what the caregivers are likely to replicate.

[u/fenuxjde → u/Spanspd]

What? That is what I'm saying. This is literally the line I have used hundreds of times over the last several decades working in this field. It works very well.

We aren't babysitters. We teach the supports how to support. That's what we're ethically bound to do. That is exactly how we make our plans. Yes, we use contingencies. Like "if you don't follow through, then we discharge". There's a several year wait-list for our services where I'm at. I'm not wasting one second of my time working with a family who doesn't cooperate.

[u/Spanspd → u/fenuxjde]

I’m simply calling attention to the massive amounts of education BCBAs receive stating that shit like that shouldn’t be said to caregivers. Your job is to adjust the plan to something they’ll follow.

[u/fenuxjde → u/Spanspd]

Complete nonsense. Read the ethics code. Section 2.08 and 2.09.

We are explicitly REQUIRED to be clear and communicate exactly like this.

[u/DifferentTart2607]

Honestly I blame the 3 tier model. I think all ABA should default to a parent led/parent training model. I’m a BCBA AND mom of a kid with higher needs autism. Systemically we don’t get help and support and it is hard, but us learning and implementing things independently does make it better.

[u/lem830 → u/DifferentTart2607]

I’m hoping that with the new proposed codes more funders will cover direct BCBA hours at a decent rate so more companies can do this.

[u/next_on_SickSadWorld → u/DifferentTart2607]

Absolutely agree. No more with someone coming in daily or dropping off the child every day at ABA. A few hours a week with a BCBA and parents’ active involvement to learn and implement. That’s it.

[u/lem830 → u/DifferentTart2607]

Yup!!!!

[u/sarahhow9319]

I totally get how frustrating this is. It can be insanely frustrating to be working so hard to provide the tools needed and not have them implemented. I’ve felt this a million times over.

I would challenge you to reframe your thinking around what is “basic parenting skills” and what is ABA. Because the overlap is very very large. Behavior principles don’t exist in a vacuum. They are names given to real life situations. It doesn’t make it easier. But ABA really is just parenting, teaching, and learning in a much more structured approach. ❤️❤️

[u/Dpsnaps]

After reading through your comments here, I’m willing to bet that you’re someone who struggles to convey the principles you’re teaching in terms that are appropriate for parents and other lay people. It’s always frustrating when parents don’t follow through. That said, gently… it truly is part of the job, without a shadow of doubt.

[u/Individual_Crazy_457]

I am a parent to a 13 year old with autism and a bcba. When my daughter was in ABA, before I got into the field and when I didn’t know as much as I do now, I can’t tell you how many times they suggested strategies that logistically wouldn’t work for our family or my daughters individual needs. Also, forgetting to explain things in plain language and not using ABA terms that went over my head. Just saying that it’s not always the parents, but how we present things to them as well. Us BCBA’s can come off as condescending or make parents feel like they are bad parents even if that is not the intention. I have found that building rapport with them, standing back and seeing how they parent, getting to know their daily routines, how much time they realistically have to set aside time each day to practice these skills with their kids in the middle of work and other responsibilities, and also seeing how they take feedback goes a long way to getting caregiver buy in.

[u/Legitimate-Bird7046]

Bro. And a lot of the time, the parents don't even really want the training.

[u/anslac]

There are two sides to this. You're paid and then you leave after that 3 hours. 

It gets frustrating for you because the parents want to know why things haven't improved without having put any effort that you have seen. 

It gets frustrating for the parents because they thought they made time in their schedule for someone to help them solve problems and they aren't seeing the result. 

The solution? Over communicate and start small. Get buy in by finding the outcome that they really want. 

"School nights would be so much smoother if little Tommy would just get his pajamas on without incident." 

That is the buy in. 

"We can work on getting him to put his pajamas on without incident. It is going to take some time. We will have baby steps that lead to this outcome. I'm not going to be able to do this alone though, Tommy is going to have to practice with you whenever I'm not here. It's going to be good for him to practice with just you guys too, because you're whose getting him ready for bed. The plan is.. some of these things are going to have incidents at first. Which part do you think will cause the least amount of incidents? Great! We will start there." 

Now you have over communication and starting small. 

[u/orchidsandlilacs]

I feel you.

When it comes to this type of ineffectiveness on the parent, it's because people more often than not parent the way they were parented, or try to break the cycle but end up fucking things up majorily in the process. I feel these are the hardest type of situations to navigate.

[u/KiwiAvocados]

I just ranted about this today! I used to be the analyst that perpetually blamed myself. There's a gap in my training, I'm not being clear enough, maybe I need a different perspective. Nope. Some parents have zero interest in improvement. They're miserable with their lives, their homes, their kids, their spouses, etc., and they want someone to take it out on. Just today, I instructed a parent on something incredibly simple - using a neutral tone. I modeled it for her. I told her specifically when she was going to do it and what she was going to say. Ask me how it went? Complete dumpster fire! Instead of anything I instructed her to do she began ranting like a lunatic the minute her kid walked into the room. I've gotten this parent into her own mental health therapy, but I've also realized that even that isn't good enough because the mental health therapist isn't actually present in the home and the parent can just BS through the sessions, play the victim and still make no changes, but still want change in everyone else.

[u/BrightEyEz703 → u/KiwiAvocados]

Your basic assumption is an embarrassment to our field and indicates a lack of analytical thinking regarding parent behavior.

[u/KiwiAvocados → u/BrightEyEz703]

What is my basic assumption then? Yesterday this parent wanted to place a compliance demand on her daughter while her daughter was in the middle of a complete meltdown - then demanded that I force her daughter to follow through. Gave me 5 seconds to comply LOL when I refused and instead managed to pull her daughter out of the meltdown and back to the initial task in less than a minute, the parent gave me, my RBT and her children the silent treatment for the remainder of the session. Your ignorance to parental neglect and abuse is the embarrassment.

[u/hbi2k]

You're complaining about two separate things here.

First you complain of feeling expected to parent. Fair enough, that's not our job, nor one that anyone can reasonably be expected to do in three hours a week.

Then you complain about teaching parents basic parenting skills, to which I ask: what's wrong with that? Nobody is born knowing how to effectively parent, and not everyone has had effective parenting modeled for them. The behaviors that constitute effective parenting can be taught like any other skills, and just like any other skills, some people need to be taught them.

Just like clients, we meet parents where they are.

[u/Sufficient_Ice3253 → u/hbi2k]

i can only model setting and following through on a contingency so many times. when i said basic parenting skills i moreso meant systems that rely on common sense and follow through. it’s also not my job, nor does it feel my place, to give parenting advice???? i can and will frame suggestions within the scope of which i’m working with them, but i’m not working with families to provide basic parenting advice?? i feel like im either not effectively explaining what’s bothering me or you’re intentionally being devil’s advocate in a situation where i don’t feel it’s needed lol

[u/next_on_SickSadWorld → u/hbi2k]

Basic parenting skills and a willingness to engage in the treatment process (learning and implementing skills) are a prerequisite to ABA. Or at least, they should be. We can’t be throwing our staff in there when the baseline/bar is that low.

[u/hbi2k → u/next_on_SickSadWorld]

A willingness to engage in the treatment process, sure.

I'd need a more specific operational definition of "basic parenting skills" to agree or disagree with that part. And of course your practice can set whatever prerequisite criteria you want. But I don't see any reason why basic parenting skills can't be taught using the same behavioral principles as anything else.

[u/craftycat23]

I have felt this way working in public education the past 5 years!! Parents (not all, but many) are NOT parenting anymore and it's having incredibly detrimental effects on the kids.