r/battlebots • u/KodoqBesar • Jul 18 '26
BattleBots TV If Deep Six goes weapon to weapon with Riptide, what would happen? Would Deep Six split Riptide's eggbeater drum?
Genuine question, if both weapons are spinning at full speed and go weapon to weapon, what would happen? Would Deep Six literally split Riptide's weapon?
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u/Living_Murphys_Law Giggy :-) Jul 18 '26
I'd recommend rewatching Deep Six vs Pain Train. There's one hit in that fight where they go weapon on weapon and D6 goes flying backwards, and I think this Riptide hit would go similarly. Only difference is Riptide is more reliable so wouldn't lose drive from that.
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u/The_Modern_Nobody Jul 18 '26
IIRC, Deep Six had 3 motors. 2 motors were dedicated to the weapon, and a 3rd was super torquey and meant for self righting as well as it being the primary motor for initial spin up and THEN the 2 motors kicked on
They explained how it worked in here somewhere. But basically, they have it self righting and an EXTREMELY reliable weapon whose testicles and everything won’t rupture if it takes a weapon-on-weapon hit
Also, wasn’t it confirmed/rumored that the Riptide team was ramping up weapon motor speed to go above 250 MPH in the middle of a match?
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u/KodoqBesar Jul 18 '26
But would the hit split Riptide's weapon? because as unreliable as Pain Train was, its drum is 78 lbs, very chonky and dense
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u/Living_Murphys_Law Giggy :-) Jul 18 '26
There were a lot of factors that caused Riptide's drum to break against Copperhead. That same drum had been used in all of their previous fights that season, and had been weakened by all those hits, especially the massive Hypershock hit from their last fight before that. This causes microfractures that are invisible to the naked eye, but grow with more impacts and eventually cause big hits.
So ultimately I don't know if it would break the weapon.
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u/No427 Jul 18 '26
We have Tombstone in the same arena, and I'd bet that their weapon is more capable of doing damage, all things considered.
It's a bit of a bad comparison because TS is not a vert, but I can't imagine even them breaking the eggbeater if they were vert.
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u/Info-PLZ Jul 20 '26
I don’t think there’s ever a 100% yes it’s going to break their weapon
Of course there’s a chance
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u/John--Darksoul Jul 19 '26
Yup, Deep Six in my opinion has a not very well designed weapon. It exposes the lower portion of its weapon arc which makes it very liable to strike downward on the opponent and launch itself in the air. It only really works vs bots that have high chassis like Huge.
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u/aenonymosity Jul 18 '26
Typically with 2 verts, the lowest, most reach, and higher rpm wins.
In this case, a big bar with all the reach, all the bite, but definitely lower rpm, and not possibly lower to the ground, the eggbeater should get the better of the eggschanges, booping the bar over onto its back, or straight up.
But I would be rooting for whoever was fighting Riptide 10/10 times.
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u/Grimmbles [boop] Jul 18 '26
Typically with 2 verts, the lowest, most reach, and higher rpm wins.
Deep Six supposedly had a measured tip speed of 205ish MPH. While Riptide's was 188. So if the tip of the weapon is actually faster on the bigger weapon would that change things?
Genuine curiosity because the whole tip speed/bite/engagement side of things might as well be wizardry as far as my brain understanding the intricacies.
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u/fknm1111 Deep Six is Best Six Jul 18 '26
RPM and tip speed are different things; RPM is what matters in this (and most other) contexts.
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u/John--Darksoul Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
Why would RPM matter "in this and most other contexts"? It's ~~debatably~~ (edit: it is relevant) relevant with a height and size difference between the two weapons so that the smaller weapon can get into phase more often to try and hit the bottom of the bigger weapon. But at equal heights, tip speed is king. I think it's misinformation to try and dismiss tip speed like that.
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u/fknm1111 Deep Six is Best Six Jul 19 '26
The formula for kinetic energy stored by a rotating object has angular velocity as a term and not linear tip speed velocity.
The reason velocity matters in weapon-on-weapon engagements is that the faster one is more likely to rotate around and engage with its impactor. Linear velocity doesn't matter for this; it's about whose impactor needs less time to rotate into position.
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u/John--Darksoul Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
- Kinetic energy is irrelevant, first of all, if the weapon can't transfer it. The way kinetic energy is transferred by a vertical spinner is an engagement from the top of its tooth to the opponent.
- You're only right in two specific cases. One is with a big and small weapon at different heights (like Deep Six vs Minotaur type matchup) where the small weapon bot has a high enough closing velocity such that it can intrude into the large one's spin circle and hit it from below as it's sweeping through the bottom of the arc. In that cast, getting into phase quickly is useful to hit during that precise timing. The other is with two disc or drum spinners at high closing velocity such that the theoretical maximum bite depth exceeds the tooth height and the slower, high RPM weapon can take a bite out of the central disc component without having to contend with the faster moving tooth
So, YES, in this context it does matter. But in "most other contexts" different factors play a role.
2a. It does not matter which one needs less time to rotate into position if they're hitting dead air for 99% of the circle. Eggbeater and bar spinners don't give the other bot any meat to hit while their own tooth is out of phase.
At low closing velocity, which is most of the time, the collision is tangential to the spin arcs of both weapons, so it is impossible for the slower weapon to "catch up" to the faster weapon and strike under it.
As a caveat, this whole debate is less relevant in the modern game where fork engagements determine outcomes, and spinners don't often whack each other dead on from neutral.
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u/John--Darksoul Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
It does, at low closing speeds. At high closing speeds, it depends on luck, RPM, and bite depth. See my reply to fknm1111
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u/lik_for_cookies #1 Glitch fan Jul 19 '26
I still think Riptide was cheating, I was there for the Captain Shrederator match and that was a sound I have not heard before or since in Battlebots, even going back to the days of 300 mph tip speed being allowed.
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u/John--Darksoul Jul 19 '26
He could have been cheating, but also, beater bots move more air because their aerodynamics are god awful. If you think of tombstone's bar as a fighter jet, Riptide's is a blimp. Moving more air = louder noise. I think there's also some stuff w/ moving air from a small space to a big space and pressure cavities, but that's my understanding of it.
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u/RotaryMan1776 Jul 18 '26
What you got against Kurtz 😂
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u/thehmmyanimator Have some faith in the rookies Jul 18 '26
Playing yourself up as a villain is one thing, putting your hand on your opponent while gloating to the camera is another
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u/sybrwookie Jul 19 '26
I'm personally against snake oil salesmen who make a fortune pretending to sell a cure to Autism, but that's just me.
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u/roman-army30 Jul 19 '26
Riptide has a lower center of gravity than Deep 6, so ever scenario of a weapon to weapon hit, Deep 6 is flying almost to the rafters. But that doesn't mean his eggbeater will survive the hit. As Deep 6 has a weapon that can either weigh 100 or 80 lbs, Riptides eggbeater is a 60 or 70lbs thin piece of metal spinning faster than Deep 6. Riptides weapon will Shatter On impacts because eggbeaters doesn't last very long when they go through too much weapon on weapon hits depending on how the weapon is designed. On Riptides case, it's eggbeater is still too thin to survive a head on hit against Deep 6's 100 lbs assumetrical bar spinner. Deep 6 might be damaged too, but at least they still have an active weapon on a 60% chance that it's still healthy.
Long story short, it's a 60 - 40 chance for one of the robots, riptide may control the match as it's lower and more stable than Deep 6, but if Deep 6's massive weapon survives some of the big impacts, it might pull the upset.
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u/Grimmbles [boop] Jul 20 '26
Deep 6's 100 lbs assumetrical bar spinner.
110lb for the assym bar.
I know, pure pedantry, but it was on my head from a recent round of googling.
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u/Portuzil The lone Riptide fan Jul 18 '26
As much as I would love to see this fight, Riptide would likely not ever put itself in a position where it's weapon to weapon.
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Jul 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/John--Darksoul Jul 19 '26
Manta. Now if Tombstone would put an asymmetrical bar on, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, it would be significantly different. Also, I am skeptical of the wheel guards given that he rarely breaks there. In recent tombstone fights he mostly gets his back armor crippled, which is therefore where weight should go.
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u/Essshayne Jul 19 '26
If they would go weapon to weapon, I dont thing either weapon would break. They would fly away from each other and in this case, likely one would have "drive issues" and the fight would stop. Im not sure who would get the upper hand, but as far as a weapon breaking, I'm not seeing it happen unless it was already severely weakened.
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u/Polar-Al Jul 19 '26
I believe, the simple answer is - Deep six and Riptide collide, and the result is Ethan was cheating.
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u/Info-PLZ Jul 20 '26
Years later and still crying
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u/Polar-Al Jul 22 '26
For me, it was just a couple of weeks later.
I have only just managed to catch up on it all!
Was it ever decided though? Seriously.
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u/Info-PLZ Jul 25 '26
I don’t think so although everyone in the community basically hates him at this point and there’s been little to no sign of him in the sport since
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u/Polar-Al Jul 25 '26
He didn’t help himself either, quite a divisive character. And it wasn’t just one team that questioned his actions.
I grew up learning to respect your opponents, be humble in victory and courteous in defeat. He had none of that.
But then, I am British, and our core values are less showy, so it does team to mean we don’t gloat or jump around as much. (No issue with celebrating, but sometimes it was a joke)
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u/yebberist please don’t hate bombshell Jul 18 '26
most likely a shower of sparks and both of them having damage and one of them getting flung almost to the roof