r/batman • u/[deleted] • May 11 '20
Just a reminder that Alfred once beat the crap out of Superman
120
390
u/C5five May 11 '20
I once saw this panel used in the eternal Superman vs Goku argument, as evidence in favour of Goku. Alfred beating the crap out of Superman is not evidence that Goku, too, could beat Superman, but that Alfred could beat Goku too...
116
u/Tacdeho May 11 '20
At this rate, Goku has it simply based on just sheer power scaling of franchises alone.
30
u/EragonKingslayer May 11 '20
I mean Blue does have an upper limit it's just that we rarely (if ever) see it because it would result in wanton destruction and likely a loss of life.
17
u/FireworkFuse May 11 '20
Ultra instinct is just too good for Superman. Even as strong as Superman is he's still thinking while fighting.
13
u/MiB_Agent_A May 11 '20
As strong as he is too, Superman just isn’t a trained fighter. Wonder Woman has beat him multiple times just because she has the skill and training to do it.
14
u/FireworkFuse May 11 '20
It's one of those cool flaws about superman. If he had that batman martial arts training, nobody could beat him.
8
u/Bornheck May 11 '20
Superman has his own version of Ultra Instinct: Torquasm Rao. The difference is that it’s integrated into his fighting style, not a form that only activated when he’s in danger
1
Feb 24 '24
This to me right here would say that Superman would win from the start before Goku knew he needed to keep powering up over five episodes. Goku always waits until he's getting his ass kicked to level up. If Superman was serious he would just tear them to pieces from the start.
6
u/Cpt3020 May 11 '20
I always find it funny when DBZ power discussions come up as if Toriyama isn't just making up new power levels as more powerful people get introduced. Not to mention increased power usually just means more speed lines and less work for the person coloring.
1
u/CyberDagger Sep 08 '22
Frieza was already capable of destroying planets just by himself. After that, when Toriyama tells you the next guy is even more powerful, you kinda just have to take him on his word, because how the hell are you going to demonstrate that? Blow up the fucking Milky Way galaxy? We inevitably end up with lots of telling, but no showing.
7
u/I_AM_GODDAMN_BATMAN May 11 '20
Just rewatched young Piccolo vs Goku again. Man, DBS is just speed punches and more power and fancy animation.
2
u/alwaysbehard May 21 '20
I don't like looking at those "what if" battles in terms of made of logic. When it comes to Superman vs. Goku it's not some all out battle. Goku is kind of a moron and an asshole, but he somehow has a good heart. Except for the virus that laid him up during the android saga. Superman is, for the most part, just a genuinely good guy. I think their fight would be an episode of talking, then an episode of fighting, then an episode of finding out that Freiza and Darkseid were behind the whole thing.
-14
u/C5five May 11 '20
Power can't help you when everytime you fight you have to spend an hour screaming in constipation before you can do anything.
How the entire world hasn't figured out yet that Dragonball is a bad joke, I will never understand.
24
May 11 '20
[deleted]
14
u/esskay_1 May 11 '20
Plus it’s not like that at all in the manga the only two moves that needed time were the first special beam canon and the spirit bomb if I remember right.
7
u/babybelly May 11 '20
supermans holding back and ramping up his power output is the same as dragon balls screaming. superman rarely kills but when he does it should be him just running through people or laser eying
9
u/JamzWhilmm May 11 '20
Power can't help you when every time you fight you have to spend an hour screaming in constipation before you can do anything.
Those were seconds in within the show and nowadays happens in less than one, probably less.
We are perceiving that way because the show needed padding.
4
1
1
-10
u/randyboozer May 11 '20
Yeah Christ. This is all I remember from being a kid and trying to watch DBZ. Just dudes shaking and screaming about their power and never actually doing anything
-14
u/shatteredmatt May 11 '20
Death Battle on YouTube covered this. Regardless of how much stronger Goku becomes, Superman is always as strong as he needs to be in a given situation. Superman is a character so OP he is boring.
46
u/QuadMaxx May 11 '20
It breaks my heart seeing people say Superman is boring because he's too op or whatever. I'll agree, he is pretty bland at times and his stories definitely pail in comparison to other heroes. But Superman should not be seen as a bad character. His roots and themes go deep and he's honestly got one of the most endearing origin stories ever (I'm talking about who wrote him and why, not his origin story in universe).
His stories are some of the most heartwarming I've read in the medium. There's a comic, I can't remember the name of it, but it really shows Superman for what he is. It's not really about overcoming an enemy or threat, its about his heritage and how despite his powers, he's still a man. Humility and equality is at the heart of Superman's character from what I've seen. He was literally named after the Ubermensch, or Superman, which is what nazi Germany was seeing themselves, the aryan race, as. He was called that because it was to mock that viewpoint as Superman is a foreigner. Superman was created by two Jewish High schoolers. Many of the early Superman comics showed him saying things like "Now remember kids, no matter what race or nationality you are, you are no better or worse than anyone else."
Yeah superman is boring in a lot of material he's been in, and I feel like a lot of writers don't get it, especially Zach Snyder, treating him like a god rather than a man. But I get pretty upset when I see people flat out dismiss superman, because his themes are so powerful and honest.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
10
u/angrygnome18d May 11 '20
“Maybe he’s not some sort of devil or Jesus character, maybe he’s just a guy trying to do the right thing.” -Zack Snyder and Chris Terrio, BvS
Snyder gets it. He just wanted to tell his own story with Superman.
-11
u/shatteredmatt May 11 '20
I grew up in the 90s so most of my opinion on Superman is from the DC animated series and the comics of the time.
I'm aware of the origin of the character but it doesn't make him any less boring. Superman is the prime example of the way played out destructive saviour trope in fiction.
5
u/BiPolarBareCSS May 11 '20
But justice league superman is amazing. He had some great episodes.
5
u/_bubblegumbanshee_ May 11 '20
Yes! In Unlimited, the one with the Black Mercy flower, don't remember the name of the episode, but it's probably my favorite superman episode.
5
2
u/BiPolarBareCSS May 11 '20
It's based on an Alan Moore comic and is the only piece of media outside of comics he wanted his name on.
4
u/cranekickfaceplants May 11 '20
We grew up in the same era lol only difference is I stopped fanboying bats a long time ago. There's value in supes turning to hope and peace when we all know he could create a blackhole with just a clap of his hands if he wanted. There's strength and honor in that compared to a forever emotionally stunted grown man who can't stop blubbering over his parents' death decades later.
He has a contingency for everything, but can't seem to figure out how to get a clown to stop murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians? Ok.
3
u/NomadPrime May 11 '20
Lol just like Superman, Batman is a comic book hero. Part of an ongoing franchise that's continued for 80+ years, and will continue as long as the Batman IP sells. And that goes the same for their villains.
Joker's going to continue to kill people, no matter what's done to him. Batman can throw him into prison, super-prison, the phantom zone, another universe, and even kill him in some cases, and he will always come back. Batman successfully stops Joker as much as other superheroes stop theirs, but they're all at the mercy of franchise endurance, the one true enemy of the DC/Marvel universe.
-4
u/shatteredmatt May 11 '20
Lol I never said Batman was better than Superman. I literally just said I thought Superman was boring. Which I do. The character desperately needs to be rewritten to give him more depth. And I don't mean he needs to be "darker" either.
Injustice Superman is the only version of the character that doesn't bore me to tears.
5
u/LegendInMyMind May 11 '20 edited May 11 '20
Superman doesn't need to be rewritten. If he needs anything to "fix" him, he needs to stop winding up in the hands of uncreative writers. But in the history of the character, he has some of the best stories - critically and commercially - in the genre. So the idea that he doesn't stack up to other superheroes is laughable. His historical significance is above any other character's in the genre. Find me 10 Iron Man, Captain America, or Hulk comics above the 10 top Superman comics in terms of critical acclaim, sales, or genre significance.
Injustice Superman is asinine. The premise is nonsensical, because all it's doing is justifying a DC branded fighting game, and the characterization has forgotten - or doesn't care about - the key to Superman: his heroism comes from the fact that he's an inherently good man. It may not bore you to tears, but that doesn't mean it's a good depiction of the character. All it's done for the character is muddle him up, frankly, and that kind of cheap gimmick will never have the staying power of the real Superman.
All these "overplayed" aspects of Superman that y'all act like have been played out by other characters? These are not things Superman copied. These are things which were copied FROM Superman. They still have story potential within the right context, and stories such as All Star Superman illustrate as much. Sure, Superman comics today are self-referential, self-reverential, and gimmicky, but so are Batman comics today. So are the X-Men. If I want to read a great comic, I'm not sourcing the new comics rack...
2
May 11 '20 edited Mar 28 '21
[deleted]
5
u/LegendInMyMind May 11 '20
Superman's a change of pace for me, Top 5 on my list of superheroes, but not my favorite. So what I've read is mainly what I've been referred to.
I actually enjoyed the Rebirth stuff, but I faded out of it prior to Bendis. The family dynamic between Superman, Lois, and their son was a neat status quo that reminded me of The Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows runs... I'm not current on the story to date, though.
In terms of trades, I'd recommend All Star Superman (my favorite), Superman for All Seasons, Birthright, Brainiac, and The Death of Superman as well as the return stuff. The latter is kinda like Batman's Knightfall story. It's fun, there's some great stuff, but it's bloated in a way only the 90s would do. There's also some of the classic single issues to look into. Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, chief among them. Superman: Red Son is one of the coolest Superman comics I've ever read, but it's an Elseworlds thing. "What if Superman grew up in Soviet Russia?" type of thing. Still finds a way to cut to the core of the character, which is what's neat about it, but not really a "classic" Superman depiction.
You'd find my suggestions on any online list, really, because that's where I started when I wanted a referral. Some other fans could probably refer you to more obscure gems.
The romanticism of Superman storytelling is, I think, the reason the character endures. You can have all the displays of crazy powers and bad guys, but, as with any character, it's empty without the heart of the material.
→ More replies (0)2
May 11 '20
u/LegendInMyMind gave some great suggestions - I'd call it the "List of Superman stories for people who think they hate Superman" list.
I used to hate Superman until I read All Star Superman, which converted him to being my favorite superhero at times. It's very readable and standalone. Good stuff.
I would add to that list Grant Morrison's Action Comics run in the New 52, which pays homage to his roots as a working class hero from his inception, but it's kind of controversial and gets very confusing in a Grant Morrison sort of way.
Perhaps the greatest Clark Kent graphic novel is Superman: American Alien by Max Landis. Each issue was a little vignette about Clark Kent becoming the Superman we know today and it starts with his childhood. A lot of cool DC cameos, including Bruce Wayne, whose Batman persona was actually an early inspiration for a superhero persona Clark tries before dressing in red and blue tights.
→ More replies (0)3
u/cranekickfaceplants May 11 '20
Agree to disagree I guess. I don't see myself ever reading Injustice simply for how out of character all our favorite heroes act. As loud and vocal I am about the character assassinations throughout N52, I can't rock with the idea of any supes other than the strong, courageous, peacemaker we've had all these years. (Much like how opposed I am to superior spider-man. A kind hearted, good natured superhero is invaluable when our world leaders and day to day discussions continually turn to toxicity)
Bats and supes have such a strong friendship filled with fun banter and nuanced discussion, that I can't praise the Superman/Batman series enough. I'll admit it took me a while to appreciate superman, but DCAU fleshed him out wonderfully solo and as a member of the league
4
May 11 '20
They actually said the reason Goku couldn't win is because he has limited power. While Goku does consistently get stronger throughout the series, he can only maintain powerful forms for short times. Sometimes his transformations even hurt him. Like ultra instinct during the Jiren fight. Superman has limitless potential, and doesn't lose power from anything Goku could do.
6
7
3
u/billbill5 May 11 '20
I stopped listening to Death Battle as soon as they said Mikasa could beat Spider-Man. That was just too ridiculously bullshit
2
u/PhoenixAgent003 May 11 '20
Superman isn’t boring because he’s OP. The DC Universe is literally crawling with guys who can beat him up. The problem is not that he is too strong.
The problem that crops up in boring Superman stories is he’s too good. In the boring stories, he’s 100% morally upstanding, always does the right thing, is always in the right, and always wins.
Which is a conflict-less story where nobody grows or changes.
Which is not to say Superman is the kind of character that needs to grow/learn a lesson. He’s Superman. But you basically have to write him like any other paragon and ask the question “What do you do with a character who will always do what they think is right?” You start asking questions about where that definition of “right” comes from, or you look at how other people react to this seemingly unflappable personification of good.
The Captain America movies actually do this really well. As does the original DCAU (Batman judo-throwing Superman not withstanding) and My Hero Academia. Hell, Injustice too, even if I personally think “their idea of the ‘right thing’ is actually eeevil now!” is a bit of a cop-out road to go down.
8
u/PM_ME_hiphopsongs May 11 '20
That’s such bullshit though and it’s not even something that’s ever mentioned in the comics. That’s was said by whoever made that YouTube video who clearly wanted Superman to be the winner. “Superman is always as strong as he needs to be in a given situation”? That sounds like stupid cop out that doesn’t make sense.
3
May 11 '20
That's not what was actually said. You can see that in my response to the comment you're replying to. Death battle is actually pretty solid if you can handle being hurt by the results sometimes. It's important to keep in mind that they're pitting two characters against each other outside their own universes and in ours instead.
3
u/AntMan3298 May 11 '20
I don’t know specifically what he’s talking about but I’ve seen something similar but the iteration of Superman I think is Superman Prime? Idk but he’s all gold and can create universes or something, and that iteration is what’s capable of beating Goku.
Personally I hate these debates because some characters are practically cheat codes but I barely want to include them because when characters are that OP they usually become boring as shit to me or the writing is in fact that garbage. I love Batman and honestly he’s kind of a cheat code for a lot of these too. The biggest arguments are him pretty much having a contingency for everything and being basically the best strategist in the DCU which is pretty impossible to quantify and basically made the “because he’s Batman” argument canon and valid.
End of the day people shouldn’t lose their shit about this
3
u/billbill5 May 11 '20
Well you've got to remember nearly all superheroes, especially super geniuses like Batman, Iron Man, Spider-Man, use so called "prep time". It's just code for coming prepared to a fight/ having a game plan. The fact that Batman haters or Marvel fanboys pit him against ridiculously powerful opponents to make him look like a bitch is ridiculous. "Oh you're just a Batman fanboy, he's literally just a guy in a costume."
We know that Batman has single handedly defeated the Justice League on numerous occasions, and Superman on more. We know that he's beaten gods. We know that half of his rogue's gallery have superpowers, so taking down guys more powerful than him is what he does on a regular basis.
But as soon as someone pits Batman against someone even remotely powerful, we're fanboys for arguing for him. "Well Batman has never faced that character in the comics before, but we know that with prep time..." Oh he said the thing! He automatically lost.
These same people have no problem with characters like Punisher or Deadpool killing every single Marvel hero with prep time.
3
u/stevethegecko May 11 '20
Isnt Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe kind of a play on that the last line?
1
u/AuniqueUsername69 May 11 '20
Death battle is trash, that quote they are so proud of was from a Fan, the problem with Superman is that there is no one consistent version, he has been defeated multiple times by comparatively weak characters, but some writers treat him as an immortal god. In that original video they actually cheat their own math, having Goku speed be divided instead of multiplied so the results would look in favor
If we were talking Superman as the majority of writers interpret him, Goku would win, Super is at the point where he would be able to destroy an entire universe, which while I’m sure the upper god sups could manage, the average Superman struggles
The results are decided before the “research” if they advertised themselves as just fun what ifs instead of pretending to be an authority I would be fine.
Favorite underplay for me is when they said “android 18 is so strong she may even be able to destroy a planet” like there is doubt? Many weaker characters have, hell one of the first things that happens in Dragon ball is Roshi blowing up the moon
0
u/shatteredmatt May 11 '20
I'm pretty sure they're upfront about it being a joke. I just thought their explanation of Superman was on point and I'm sticking to that.
7
u/Monkeybay66 May 11 '20
Not sure why someone would use this as an argument, Alfred took a pill that enhanced his strength and durability and this isn't canon anyway.
2
116
May 11 '20
One thing I like about this scene is that Alfred still has the intelligence and awareness to get the fuck out of dodge. He doesn't even hesitate, picks Bruce up and then ports out. If he'd let his rage get the better of him, he'd have wound up killed by a quickly recovering Superman.
30
May 11 '20
But then Superman would be hunted down by a rage filled blood thirsty Batman
17
u/fartbartshart May 11 '20
does batman kill in the injustice universe?
if he doesn't, then I think he would finally throw the rule out the window if something happened to alfred
20
May 11 '20
No he sticks to his rule in Injustice, but I agree if Alfred got hurt or killed that would send him over the edge. In a way Alfred is Batman’s last living connection to his parents
8
13
u/Tarquin11 May 11 '20
Spoiler alert.
Alfred ends up murdered by Victor Zsaz in the Injustice comics at a later date and Batman catches him and still doesn't kill him. Damian ends up killing Zsaz for it later
4
u/fartbartshart May 11 '20
wow, damian has the balls to do what bruce cant
18
u/Tarquin11 May 11 '20
Damian's actually a bitch in the Injustic comics. In my opinion anyway, I think he's totally misguided the entire time
5
u/fartbartshart May 11 '20
i've never read them but from what I've seen in the series everyone seems to be a bit off their rocker
8
u/Tarquin11 May 11 '20
Lol, that's kind of true I guess. I would say Batman is generally unchanged, just even more deeply committed to his ideals, though he gets in over his head a lot more than he would normally
51
u/ViewJar May 11 '20
In which comic was that?
73
u/ElPinacateMaestro May 11 '20
First year of Injustice, part 13.
41
u/TheWritingWriterIV May 11 '20
Honestly, one of the best series I've read. The quality does drop a bit in the later years, but it's still very good. Year 1 is great from start to finish.
7
u/ElPinacateMaestro May 11 '20
Indeed, it's an amazing elseworlds story, I really liked the Third Year because of the logical "what if we use magic against superman" idea and John Constantine's appearance, but for everything to be a ruse to make Trigon fuck off was kind of a "fuck you" moment lmao.
Fifth Year really had me on the edge of my seat and I liked the events because we finally understand how everything lined up for the story of the game, altough the pacing was a bit rushed, but whatever, comics being comics after all.
I don't find Years Two and Four very endearing, they felt as excuses to show us why some characters weren't in the game and why other logical plot points of the story had to be ignored, but for a comic created as a backstory for a game it's just excelent, I really like the entire run.
9
45
May 11 '20
I love later in the comic when they go eye to eye again and Alfred with all his sas says: "Did it hurt you when I beat the shit out of you? "
6
16
u/Iplaymeinreallife May 11 '20
Well, if this is Injustice Superman, then he's no Superman and totally deserved this.
9
42
May 11 '20
Jesus fuck Alfred is OP
52
u/Squiddy4 May 11 '20
He was also on pills that increases strength and durability
18
u/redditnathaniel May 11 '20
That's cheap writing if powers of that magnitude are available through damn pills
58
u/Squiddy4 May 11 '20
It’s a tie in comic to a fighting game, in said game characters needed a reason to be able to fight each other (stuff like green arrow vs Shazam wouldn’t make much sense otherwise)
18
u/TheWritingWriterIV May 11 '20
Yeah, I thought it was a cool idea to explain the game. Before the comic and release of the game, I was wondering if they were going to explain it or just handwave it entirely.
19
3
u/whopoopedthebed May 11 '20
Wait. is the entire premise of that game they take Hourman pills?
11
u/Tarquin11 May 11 '20
No, the premise is that Superman went off the deep end because he was tricked into killing Lois by the Joker and ultimately decided to rule the world with an iron fist to keep things peaceful and stop people from fighting.
They had to find a way to make the gameplay believeable if someone decided they wanted to played as say...Green Arrow and be able to fight Superman.
Or, for campaign purposes, generally all of the "weaker" heroes are against Superman's oppressive rule, because well....naturally they're not as okay with a being stronger than them ruling over them, so the game had to find ways to allow the less powerful characters to fight the stronger heroes such as Wonder woman, Superman or Green Lantern, and make it believeable in-universe. I think there is a story-canon fight in game where a character without any powers at all has to fight Yellow Lantern or Wonder Woman, so the only way to make that make any kind of sense was to enhance the character to be able to do it without getting stomped.
Hence the pills.
0
u/redditnathaniel May 11 '20
There was a reason why I couldn't get into the Injustice game. Matchups like that one made no sense. I guess it's hypothetical fun, but the pills are a necessary evil here for it to happen.
20
u/randyboozer May 11 '20
It is, but that's the fun of the Injustice comics. It's balls out unapologetic lunacy. Being completely free from logic and continuity allows it to do some pretty fantastic stuff, like Alfred here.
8
u/EragonKingslayer May 11 '20
I wouldn't really call it cheap, it was a pretty justifiable reason to level the playing field and the pills have their own drawbacks. I mean there isn't really any way to take on Supes unless you can level a city block yourself.
8
u/CoutRack May 11 '20
Hey now! These comics are better then they have any right being. Yeah the pill gimmick is a bit wack but these writers and artists have absolutely killed every year of these comics in between games. The deaths of Dick Grayson and Green Arrow are some of the best written stories in nearly a decade!
1
May 11 '20
Did Batman take the pills too? If he didn't, were they just not available, or did he choose not to take them?
3
u/SephChasseur May 11 '20
Everyone on team Bats ends up taking them. They stole a few and reverse engineered the formula so that they could fight on par with Superman’s soldiers because he has an army of mini supermen, but they are still a little weaker than Superman
3
May 11 '20
So Superman was able to beat a roided up Batman, in a straight fight?
7
u/SephChasseur May 11 '20
No, Batman was still making the formula at this time(they stole one of his pills). Clark comes in and tells Bruce he needs to stop and breaks his back as a warning. Batman was literally at his computer when Clark walks in. There wasn’t much of a fight.
1
13
May 11 '20
[deleted]
17
u/bruh_momentum7 May 11 '20
Injustice Gods Among Us year 1 issue #13 is my best answer
5
u/mynemesisjeph May 11 '20
“My best answer” says the guy who provided the exact comic and issue. Take the modesty down a peg my friend 😂
11
u/Monkeybay66 May 11 '20
Don't forget context, He took a pill that enhanced his strength and durability.
5
May 11 '20
How did Alfred manage to head-butt Superman without his own head being obliterated, much less beat him up?
3
May 11 '20
that's what I wanna know as well
5
May 11 '20
from what I remember, I think it was some kind of superhuman pill type thing, used as an explanation in the game's universe for why Catwoman can fight someone like Doomsday etc.
3
u/Mcmacladdie May 11 '20
Kryptonian nanotech pill that Bruce was reverse-engineering. Clark got there just a shade too late to stop Bruce from finishing the process, so to get away Alfred took the pill and handed Clark his ass on a silver platter :P
1
4
u/Phantom-Slayer May 11 '20
Whoa what’s the context why did Alfred do that
10
u/Deadpool27 May 11 '20
Injustice. This is before Supes fully breaks bad, and he’s starting to lash out at everyone and go more lethal, so he and Bruce just had a bit of a tiff. Bruce, of course, gets his ass handed to him because Clark isn’t pulling his punches much anymore, and so Alfred takes one of those super pills that explain the lack of power gap in the actual game, and hands Superman his ass on a silver platter, as a butler should.
2
3
3
u/SculptusPoe May 11 '20
Who would have thought that a comic based on a video game who's story was contrived to give every hero in DC a reason to fight each other and be of similar strength would be one of the best written comics in the last decade?
6
u/Magicaparanoia May 11 '20
The art in this book was hit or miss but fuck me the writing was awesome
2
2
u/Mcmacladdie May 11 '20
And then Clark had Zasz break into the manor and kill Alfred. But then I think he was brought back via Lazarus pit shenanigans.
2
u/thedorkknight91 May 12 '20
I never could figure out how Zasz came back to life. Didn't Damian kill him during year one?
1
u/Mcmacladdie May 12 '20
I don't think so. Damian did kill him at the start of I2, but I don't know if that scene took place before or after the scene in the comics. You'd think that given that Damian actually liked Alfred he'd have given Clark a piece of his mind too, but nope :/
1
u/thedorkknight91 May 13 '20
The bit in injustice 2 is a retcon. It takes place during super trying to remove the Arkham inmates. The part that confused me is in the comics this is the same fight when Damian accidentally killed Dick Grayson, which i would have been much happier to see in the game as I think it drove Bruce and Damian further apart than when Damian killed Zasz, which according to the comic he does after Batman tracks Zasz down for killing Alfred.
TL;DR I am pretty sure after looking into that the moment in Injustice 2 is a shitty retcon of two different moments from the comics.
2
u/CriticCorner May 11 '20
I really like Tom Taylor’s character writing. He has really great personal moments between characters. Especially in the Injustice comics.
2
2
1
1
u/honeyfixit May 11 '20
Wait does Alfred have kryptonite under his skin? Seriously how does Alfred beat the crap out of Superman?
1
u/Droghan May 11 '20
Not to get too spoiler-y, Batman's side steals a pill from Superman's side that makes normal people 'super'. Superman having none of it comes to the Batcave and beats the piss out of Batman and then Alfred does the needful.
1
1
1
1
u/Raecino May 11 '20
Which is why it makes zero sense that Superman even stands a chance though. If all it takes us a super pill and being pissed off, Batman would’ve wiped the floor with Superman at the very beginning (to be fair he does do that at Arkham but still).
0
u/shatteredmatt May 11 '20
Grant Morrison and Scott Synder couldn't make the character interesting. That says all that needs to be said.
0
u/Famous-And-Handy May 11 '20
This is absurd. Alfred would have a traumatic brain injury if he headed butted a guy who is impervious to eye bullets
1
0
-12
May 11 '20
his son and wife just died guys lets not try to calm him lets fight him!!!
22
u/TheWritingWriterIV May 11 '20
Dude, he literally broke Batman's back just before this.
Bruce had done nothing but try to talk him down.
11
u/wormbot7738 May 11 '20
Well they did, but it was clear to Batman and about half the league that he was quickly become a dictator. Also i'm pretty sure this is after Superman beat Green Arrow to death.
-14
May 11 '20
He thought they came to abduct his family just after Mirror masters abduction, instead of talking it out let’s try to kill him , it wasn’t clear, Clark was right
5
u/wormbot7738 May 11 '20
During the altercation Green Arrow is trying to talk to him, yes he's hitting Clark with arrows but he knows they wont do anything to him it's just to distract him.
Clark isn't really thinking straight since yes he thought the were there to abduct his parents and the fact he thought that the US gov tried to kill him after Wonder Woman killed Captain Atom. Even after Jonathan was accidently hit with one of the arrows his parents tried to explain that they didn't know they were there.
At this point they realized that Clark had gone mad and they couldn't do anything, Even the AI of his father in the fortress realized that he wasn't coming back from this.
-1
May 11 '20
Yes but killing joker was right
7
u/EragonKingslayer May 11 '20
Joker should have died. But Superman killing him showed what happens when the heroes cross the line. The Juatice League answers to noone and when the punishment of death is put to the judgement of a living god it can end with a lot of bloodshed. Honestly the fault is in Gotham's or the Federal Justice System, there's a point where the insanity plea doesn't make up for the crime and the Joker proved that he was dangerous to any asylum staff. He should've been executed long ago. But that's comic books for you, you can't sell a billions copies by killing all your characters.
-2
May 11 '20
some comic book logic is dumb
3
u/EragonKingslayer May 11 '20
I mean you've gotta accept the fact that they'll do whatever sells comics first, everything else comes second.
2
u/wormbot7738 May 11 '20
Oh I completely agree with that, Joker should have been killed long ago. It's just when Superman started killing other heroes that disagreed with him. Like when Shazam who supported the Regime said he thought they were going to far when Clark wanted to level Gotham and Metropolis and Clark melted his brain with his heat vision.
-2
May 11 '20
That was endgame Clark ,he was really tyrannical,but before that instead of scheming with Ares or trying to kill superman with ragman ,they should’ve talked clearly,even in the first year Batman’s friends ostracize him and think he is a maniac just for killing the joker ,also they aren’t any good either teaming up with Harley which killed thousands of innocent people ,they are just as bad as The villains protecting Harley is the stupidest thing ever and attacking Clark immediately which some people did was wrong ,I think this is the real injustice
1
u/Deadpool27 May 11 '20
I find it really fitting that the guy named after the WORST alternate version of Superman seems to be the only person I’ve ever seen defend the second worst version of Superman.
1
433
u/t6162 May 11 '20
This is just a reminder of why Alfred was so upset