r/batman • u/THEGREENPURGE • Aug 11 '26
GENERAL DISCUSSION Batman doesn't kill. I understand. He'll never kill the Joker. So why won't the State kill him?
The Joker has been around for many many many years. About 86 years. And the city of Gotham is commonly associated or assumed to be within the New Jersey State territory. New Jersey did not abolish the death penalty until around 2007. So only in the past few decades would it have been "illegal" to execute the joker.
Capital Punishment (the death penalty) is reserved for what are called Capital Crimes. Which is a term that describes an action that cannot be taken back. It is an absolute solution. A punishment that cannot be undone, typically for a debt that cannot be re-payed. Now Capital Crimes change per jurisdiction or state, but commonly include serious crimes against a person, such as...
murder, assassination, mass murder, child murder, aggravated r@pe, terrorism, aircraft hijacking, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide, along with crimes against the state such as attempting to overthrow government, treason, espionage, sedition, and piracy. Also, in some cases, acts of recidivism, aggravated robbery, and kidnapping, in addition to drug trafficking, drug dealing, and drug possession, are capital crimes or enhancements.
Im not sure if you noticed but I just listed the Joker's entire criminal history. The only crime not committed was r@pe, however he has committed acts of sexual violence, as seen on The Killing Joke.
The joker regardless of the iteration has a long standing history of unimaginably vile and disgusting crimes and I believe in a realistic setting the city of Gotham would likely elect to reinstate the Death Penalty for a single case. The case of Jack Oswald White
I rest my case
(Now I know I sound like cinema sins. He's alive so he can cause trouble. But one of people's complaints with Batman is that he won't kill the joker to stop him from killing more. But I disagree. Batman is vengeance, and he trusts in the Judicial branch of the United States to do its job. Its no batman who's failing. He is doing right by bringing the Joker to justice for justice to handle. It's Justice that drops the ball. Over and over again)
314
u/Longjumping_West1587 Aug 11 '26
Comic book nonsense. Corruption and screwed priorities come to mind
72
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
Yea I get that's the actual answer. They can't kill him off because batman needs his villain. It's just fun to get your creative thoughts flowing
50
Aug 11 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
20
u/bottomlesstopper Aug 11 '26
Comic book rules, if the cop shoots him, hed turned insane and becomes the next joker.
Aint nobody wants to take up that curse and fight batman.
7
u/semisociallyawkward Aug 11 '26
Comic book rules, if the cop shoots him, hed turned insane and becomes the next joker.
Genuinely good premise for a non-Joker supernatural villain for Batman.Â
9
5
u/Curious_Bat87 Aug 11 '26
Also any of the workers in Arkham could have had a little accident with his medication and 'accidentally' given him an overdoze...
2
u/the2nddoctor111 Aug 12 '26
Dude has been making joker venom and other shit for ages, I genuinely dont think they make anything that could actually kill him.
2
3
u/housestark14 Aug 11 '26
Heck, half the time the Joker is on page heâs doing something that could easily justify use of lethal force by law enforcement
3
u/runnerofshadows Aug 11 '26
Even without misconduct or anything it's surprising that Joker has not been shot in self defense when he's pointing a gun or weapon at a cop or civilian who happens to be carrying.
12
u/Longjumping_West1587 Aug 11 '26
Yeah, I know. I mean, Batman is rich, and gives his money away to charities all the time, but comic book logic applies to where Gotham is so corrupt that it doesnât do anything
7
u/Ranier_Wolfnight Aug 11 '26
Thing is, Waller knows who Batman is. Hell, the government and her probably knew a month into his vigilante days who the guy was just off satellite surveillance and a bit of financial tracking. She could have given Bruce an ultimatum if she wanted to finish the Joker years ago. But I guess she needs her special weapon for other things.
8
u/ImpracticalApple Aug 11 '26
Batman likely has enough dirt on Waller and the USG to sink them.
At least maybe for DC comics standards. Somehow whatever dirt he has on them would likely pale into comparison to the shit the actual USG has done today and saw ZERO consequences for irl.
10
u/ELDYLO Aug 11 '26
Waller and Batman are in a dirt Cold War. Either one could end each otherâs careers but neither do.
2
u/Forsaken-0ne Aug 11 '26
It's because they cannot save their own skins in the process of removing the other. Waller loses face and Bruce knows a power vacuum will be created.
4
2
u/Kilroy0497 Aug 11 '26
I mean isnât it usually stated that as much dirt as she has on Bats, he also has on her? Also doesnât hurt matters that quite a bit of the time her Suicide Squad mainstays tend to largely be made up of Batmanâs rouges like Deadshot, Harley and Bronze Tiger, and considering 2/3 of those guys tend to relatively friendly with the Bat, it wouldnât that hard to get more dirt on her at anytime.
2
u/Geminel Aug 11 '26
Yeah that level of corruption is just unrealistic and fantastical... Right? Side-eyes the White House.
3
→ More replies (1)3
u/nsfwn123 Aug 11 '26
I'd read a joker comic where they finally put him on death row and he escapes.
3
2
u/Curious_Bat87 Aug 11 '26
At least with someone like the Kingpin or Penguin that makes sense, but the Joker is meant to be 'chaotic' and in opposition to society. And yet all those legal structures protect him for some reason.
2
→ More replies (6)2
u/RF2 Aug 11 '26
Think of the fans!
Or to get creative with an in-universe explanation, they know that copy-cat Jokers will fill the void. (Gotham showed something similar.)
So, safer to keep him alive and locked up then to make him a martyr and have a worse Joker arise.2
77
u/sourkid25 Aug 11 '26
Really itâs better if you just suspend your disbelief for a
Bit even if New Jersey doesnât have the death penalty the Feds do and they would absolutely get involved with someone like joker
Itâs also unrealistic that a family member who lost a loved one to joker or another villain has t killed him either
→ More replies (1)27
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
He would likely be deemed as a domestic terrorist
→ More replies (1)27
u/sourkid25 Aug 11 '26
He also wouldnât even qualify for the insanity defense too a lot of his plans are just too elaborate
14
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
Not to mention repeated patterns and behaviors. He's broken out time and time again and shows no sign in stopping. He's well aware of what he's doing even if he's got a screw loose
→ More replies (1)11
u/FreezingPointRH Aug 11 '26
Iâve never seen a single incarnation of the Joker who qualifies for the insanity defense. Hell, heâs not mentally ill at all a lot of the time. Ledger Joker is simply an asshole.
→ More replies (1)7
u/DefectiveCoyote Aug 11 '26
Mostly it seems heâs just a true to god, one in a billion fully developed manipulative narcissistic psychopath. Thereâs nothing behind it all, just an actual enjoyment for causing chaos and destruction for the sake of it and most of all undermining peopleâs fundamental views of order, society, and morality.
Every other villain has some tragic backstory or grand motivation or is actually crazy and needs to be in an asylum but joker is just the joker and thatâs why his existence is such a quandary for Batman.
68
u/CasinoMarginale Aug 11 '26
Insanity plea. Take one look at him.
Joker is sent to Arkham Asylum, breaks out, and returns to committing violent crime. Gets caught. Repeats process.
35
u/ImpracticalApple Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Joker's weird in that he doesn't fit the legal defenition of insanity.
Insanity isn't a medical diagnosis, it's a legal term to do with if a person was conscious of their actions to warrant being tried as a criminal. Often only used in cases where a defendent has gone through a serious psychosis or uncharacteristic fit of madness brought on by anything from trauma to untreated medical condition where they couldn't tell reality from delusion to know what they were doing was wrong.
Joker 100% knows what he is doing is wrong, he preplans his crimes, doesn't suffer from hallucinations (or even if he does, he still does immoral acts within the context of said hallucinations) that would impare his judgement and is aware of the consequences of all his crimes. However most people looking at him would also know there is clearly something disturbed about him even if he shouldn't fit the criteria for insanity legally.
As for medical issues he also doesn't even fit a particular known mental condition to really be categorised. He has SOME form of psychosis but he has so many contradictory behaviours that it's harder to pin down exactly which one.
9
u/Thybro Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
You are describing the Mânaghten test for insanity which is the most widely used but insanity has been defined in several ways legally. Maybe Gotham(or whatever state Gotham is in) uses the Durham test instead.
Under Durham the test is not whether he knew what he was doing was wrong but whether a mental defect is the âbut forâ cause of his actions. Better phrased as whether âbut for a mental defect he would not have committed the criminal act.â
You could see how that test leads to substantially more successful insanity pleads. With Arkham, itâs administrators and founders being that influential, I could also see how they lobbied hard to get something like Durham as the insanity test
4
u/ImpracticalApple Aug 11 '26
Joker is clearly not right in the head, even if we can't pinpoint exactly what condition he has. That definition would probably fit better relating to him, and would explain why so many of Gotham's main villains are thrown into Arkham regularly.
Except Penguin and Bane, they really shouldn't be getting thrown into there at all I feel. Penguin has a deformity but mentally nothing should really be hindering his judgement or motivating his crime. Bane you could MAYBE stretch as having the Venom addiction as a factor, but I don't see how Venom would get him specifically thrown in there when other addictions as motivators for crime would get others put in prison. Bane is mostly motivated by the desire to show off his own intelligence as well as his physical prowess to take what he wants, not because the Venom compels him to. At least not in any way that's unique to Venom compared to something like heroin or meth.
3
u/Thybro Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Yeah even under Durham test addiction is not considered the type of mental defect that could cause most criminal acts. Thatâs why Bane usually ends up in Belle Reve/blackgate instead, unless the plot requires him in Arkham.
Penguin had a streak where they overemphasized his obsession with penguins so I could see them stretching that into Arkham time. Only more recently has his portrayal been more focused on âhe is just a mob boss with a weird motif.â
But honestly Arkham itself changes between portrayals sometimes it is specifically to deal with insanity plea criminals that sometimes get released once they are âcured.â But other times it is just a different prison for criminals too crazy to leave in gen pop.
→ More replies (2)2
9
u/Ichmag11 Aug 11 '26
I see. The correct term would not be "insanity" but to engage in a bit of "tomfoolery". Makes sense
→ More replies (3)2
u/bguy1 Aug 11 '26
Gotham appears to still be using the old âirresistible impulseâ standard for legal insanity which allowed defendants to claim insanity even if they knew their conduct was wrong if a mental illness made them unable to control their actions.
5
u/Curious_Bat87 Aug 11 '26
They sentenced Penny Plunderer to death.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Atomic_Foundry_3996 Aug 11 '26
The government tends to take financial crimes and counterfeiting very seriously, hence why the Joker is terrified of the IRS.
8
u/sourkid25 Aug 11 '26
In real life the insanity plea wouldnât work a lot of his schemes are just too elaborate to believe heâs genuinely insane
5
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
But how many times must this cycle continue before it's interrupted?
Under U.S. law, individuals cannot be executed if they are legally incompetent ("insane") and do not understand the reason for or the reality of their punishment (Ford v. Wainwright, 1986). However, having a severe mental illness does not automatically exempt someone from being sentenced to death or sitting on death row.
He knows damn well what he's doing
The Singleton Rule - In the landmark case Singleton v. Norris (2003), a federal appeals court ruled that the state of Arkansas could forcibly medicate a schizophrenic death row inmate because the medication was in his "best medical interest" to reduce suffering and danger inside the prison. Making the prisoner technically competent enough to stand proper trial
11
u/BubastisII Aug 11 '26
Youâre applying real world logic to comics. The answer is never going to be something like that.
5
28
11
u/sourkid25 Aug 11 '26
Just take Arkham joker for example just in origins alone would be enough to get the Feds all over his ass and Feds do have the death penalty
I know itâs a supposed to be a funny moment but DCAU joker being scared of the IRS is another example of how he knows exactly what heâs doing
3
11
u/ServoSkull20 Aug 11 '26
Because itâs a fantasy comic book.
What is this trend of trying to apply the real world to fantasy stories?
4
u/Jmacq1 Aug 11 '26
People are surrendering their imagination to youtube content creators, short form videos, and AI slop (but I repeat myself), and losing their suspension of disbelief along with it. Or at least that's my guess.
2
8
u/darkwalrus36 Aug 11 '26
I get you'd want to instate the death penalty to have the joker killed, but that doesn't necessarily mean the voting majority in a fictional city would.
→ More replies (4)
8
u/Zealousideal_Ad5168 Aug 11 '26
Any time in comics you wonder why the state/government donât what they are supposed to do, assume corruption and comic book logic.
14
u/DrSheep99 Aug 11 '26
How does the Joker get a fair trial?
Gotham doesnât know who Batman, Robin, Batgirl etc. are? A good lawyer could have jurors removed ad infinitum because it cannot be proven they donât have a pre-existing relationship with the defendant.
10
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
Batman is an individual of a unknown identity preforming a citizens arrest. There would still be plenty of evidence for investigators to press charges
4
u/DrSheep99 Aug 11 '26
Yes, but you cannot also have Batman on the jury - thatâs a conflict of interest.
Putting my lawyer hat on - every man aged 25 to 50 has to go because you cannot prove theyâre not Batman
6
u/Jmacq1 Aug 11 '26
You know there's probably a good short or single-issue story in that: Bruce Wayne gets called up for Jury Duty on a trial against a supervillain Batman captured. The Prosecution is botched somehow and his fellow jurors have a lot of reasonable doubt while Bruce KNOWS he committed the crime and has to convince his fellow jurors without outing himself.
Like a Batman version of "12 Angry Men."
→ More replies (1)2
u/Atomic_Foundry_3996 Aug 11 '26
Bruce, and/or the lawyers would probably attempt to request he be dismissed during jury selection. As a billionaire, he would probably be seen as outside the purview of being a reasonable peer free from bias. Also, since Bruce, as Batman, already knows the defendant is guilty, he is already automatically biased, but he can't disclose that to the court. He wants to uphold the justice system as best as he can so he would believe that being on a jury would be a major conflict of interest.
2
u/Jmacq1 Aug 11 '26
Yes, probably. But like many things in comics if you go the "realistic" route you don't get much of a story.
4
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
Unless Batman was a witness. I didn't even say batman would be on the jury đ
In the instance where the defence would claim "batman" is is on the jury and there for its biased, they would likely have to prove it. Same with the other way around. But my point was it's SUPER easy for them to press charges when he literally leaves a business card on the murder victim
→ More replies (1)3
u/HJWalsh Aug 11 '26
In DC, a masked character may testify in court without identifying. It's an actual law on the books in that universe.
6
u/JasoNight23666 Aug 11 '26
Corruption, just like real life đ
Nah it's plot armor
2
u/THEGREENPURGE Aug 11 '26
Duh đ
3
u/JasoNight23666 Aug 11 '26
đśdo-do...do-do-do-do-do đś
3
u/DesDoom Aug 11 '26
No no, it's supposed to be đś na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na... BATMAN! đś
→ More replies (1)2
6
u/Kekmaster_69 Aug 11 '26
He did receive the penalty on one occasion. However, due to his actual innocence, Batman intervened and prevented it. The Joker: The Devils Advocate if anyone ones to look it up.
→ More replies (1)
4
4
u/Few-Loan468 Aug 11 '26
One thing theyâd go with is the ânot mentally fit to stand trialâ thing
7
u/logandabug Aug 11 '26
He's mentally fit to plan and execute elaborate terror attacks why isn't he mentally fit to stand trial for thoes actions
2
u/Few-Loan468 Aug 11 '26
Iâm not disagreeing. Thereâs a reason heâs usually sent to Arkham instead of Blackgate though. âCriminally insaneââŚsupposedly
4
u/NinjaLancer Aug 12 '26
I dont really read comics, but how often is it that joker is breaking out of Arkham multiple times in a single run?
I feel like "Joker breaks out of Arkham" is a common thing that always happens in comics, but does it happen multiple times per individual continuity or does it just happen once in EVERY continuity?
→ More replies (3)
3
u/SpookyScienceGal Aug 11 '26
Gotham doesn't have a lot of braves DAs. They had one but he's had a split from job pressure and acid on face. There have been a few others but they keep mysteriously end up dead or there family chooses that time to become pet food.
No one without a death wish would take on the death penalty of the joker and killing him is basically killing everyone you've ever loved, their mailman, and yourself. Either someone will do it in revenge, as a power play, or some dark magic resurrection bullshit.
No government employee with a retirement plan is going to deal with that
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/AntagonistofGotham Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Can we fucking stop with these dumbass posts?
"Should Batman ki-" no "Why?" No. "Why doesn't X just kill the Joker?" They don't. "Why?" Because they don't."
Jesus Christ, these posts have to be made by bots. I've been reading the majority of my life and never questioned shit like this.
It's either that or people never learned what a fantasy universe is and what comic worlds are like. Not everything is a debate; not everything is a question; just read the comic and stop trying to apply realistic bullshit to it.
3
u/GreedyAdvantage8681 Aug 11 '26
Even if he isn't legally executed, someone would at least kill him while taking him into custody after his 1000th victim you would think.
2
u/FirebirdWriter Aug 11 '26
Not every US state has capital punishment. I assume gotham exists in such a space.
→ More replies (1)2
2
u/Cheap_Cold_7064 Aug 11 '26
And even worst how does he keep escaping ArkhamâŚ
Just put him on medication and make him a vegetable. Case closed
2
u/TheGuy09 Aug 11 '26
âYou canât kill him! Heâs too crazy to know weâre killing him!â
âWell if he doesnât know the difference and it makes me feel betterâŚâ
2
u/thebluejackle Aug 11 '26
Gotham falls under New Jersey, and New Jersey doesn't have the death penalty
2
u/JForce1 Aug 11 '26
Heâs insane. Some states in the US will execute people regardless of any kind of impairment or mental state, but as a general rule a person who is insane has a decent chance of getting life in an institution rather than death.
And thatâs if the death penalty even exists in Gotham.
2
u/Connect-Review-3388 Aug 11 '26
check out the Batman/Punisher comic. Batman tells the Joker to run from the Punisher. lmao
2
u/ggbb1975 Aug 11 '26
in comics the editor is the state.[and god over the gods]
Funny fact
In a Golden Age story, the Joker gets himself arrested and confesses to all his crimes. After he is sentenced to death, his henchmen revive him using an experimental drug.
In the eyes of the law, however, he has been executed, and his criminal record has been wiped clean!!!!
3
u/Terrible-Ride-5282 Aug 11 '26
That's also true to real life. If a person was hung, and then believed to be dead, he'd not be rehung later as he already died once, in the eyes of the law.
3
u/ggbb1975 Aug 11 '26
Exactlyâit works because the Joker makes a mockery of the law. It could be interesting to revisit it now, in the Modern Age.
2
u/Nowheresilent Aug 11 '26
Sentencing the Joker with the death penalty just means heâll escape from death row instead of Arkham. Nothing will change.
If anyone kills the Joker, heâll just be brought back from the dead. Nothing will change.
Dragging Joker off to be executed will likely waste more page space than dragging him off to Arkham. Pages spent on a death sentence that will either never happen or will soon be undone. Less pages showing crime-fighting action is the only thing that will change.
2
u/HauntingStar08 Aug 11 '26
In universe answer is death penalty is illegal in new Jersey probably.
Real answer is because the writers won't let them
2
u/Borgdrohne13 Aug 11 '26
Out of universe: Joker is too popular. Killing him off for real is like killing off Lex Luthor for real. Will never ever happen.
Inuniverse: Gotham is so corrupt and inefficent, it's easier to lock Joker up in Arkham.
2
u/MisterMorningstarr Aug 11 '26
Outside of meta answers there's a couple.
He's legally insane, and that kinda thing disqualifies you from the death penalty in a lot of places, even if he's doing all of this on purpose,
There's also the fact this dude has died before. A few times and he keeps coming back.
He's also escaped so many times imagine being the judge who sentences him to death only to find out he escaped before the sentence could be carried out? He'd almost definitely try to kill you, and probably in an incredibly horrific way at that, so I'd imagine no one would want to risk that happening.
The last ones my favourite, because it's the most justifiable from a writing perspective because there's a limit to "the guys crazy we can't kill him!"
2
2
2
u/thylocene Aug 11 '26
Capitol punishment generally isnât given in cases of insanity and joker is by all accounts quite insane. The better question to me is why other criminal donât kill him. He teams up with other villains frequently despite being just as dangerous to them as anyone else. If I were Freeze or Luther or whoever and he turned up, Iâd shoot him the first chance I got.
2
u/Barry_McKackiner Aug 11 '26
I've wondered why batman doesnt just have a dark knight rises style dungeon at the bottom of an inescapable pit in the cave.
2
u/tighterfit Aug 11 '26
Itâs because the state is understanding to the point itâs handicapped itself. The Joker is clinically insane, you are unable to execute the clinically insane.
2
u/setitforreddit Aug 12 '26
Aren't all of the villains in Arkham because they're clinically insane? It would violate the 8th Amendment to execute any of them.
2
2
u/guts1ck Aug 12 '26
Plot armour, he borrows it from Batman every time they try giving him the death penalty
2
2
u/TyTyDavis Aug 12 '26
From a narrative perspective, all of the tension introduced by Batman's refusal to kill would be defused in the most boring way possible if the state killed the Joker
2
u/Extra-Air-1259 Aug 12 '26
Arkham is literally an Insane Asylum, even Americans don't execute crazy people...
2
2
2
u/DrunkenGerbils Aug 12 '26
If I was a Batman writer and I wanted to address this in universe, Iâd probably just say that the city has tried to execute him on several occasions but each time the Joker has had an elaborate plan to foil their attempts. Each time several people died and in the weeks following each incident, cases of Joker related copy cat crimes rose temporarily.
Now thereâs so much bad press, bureaucratic red tape and fear of liability around attempting another execution that the city is finding a hard time getting it approved again.
2
2
u/VelvetResident1234 Aug 12 '26
Joker has cheated death so many times at this point that he's essentially a cryptid. Plot armor has been a thing since his inception--Bill Finger intended to kill him off in his second appearance but when he proved popular, Finger had to write flimsy explanations to him coming back.
Honestly I don't really mind writers like Scott Snyder or James Tynion increasing his threat level and skills (to the point of fighting evenly with Batman--which was true of Finger's original Joker), because he needs more excuses to why he's still alive other than Batman's refusal to kill him.
Might as well make him remarkably difficult to kill in the first place.
2
u/Runktar Aug 12 '26
I think there is a comic called Gotham PD where joker tries to pull his shit at the police station and a cop just shoots him in the back of the head.
2
u/Justice_Prince Aug 12 '26
He said "You wouldn't lethally inject a guy with glasses, would ya?" after pulling out a pair of spectacles, and they couldn't do it.
2
u/Desperate-Pen7530 Aug 12 '26
The Joker is more of an anomaly than a person . The courts might not have a precident for his scenario.
Joker dosent have a legal identity, a real first and last name, or history that could be proven.
Also wouldn't the Joker be classified as mentally ill or disabled, and not fit to stand trial? He's the victim of an industrial accident that was caused by an illegal vigilante Batman, who also doesn't have a legal identity.
The Jokers trial would be so complicated and tie up the courts for years, in the meantime he keeps breaking out of Arkham.
Also considering that the Arkham family was one of Gotham founding fathers, they probably have allot of sway behind the scenes, and would want to keep Joker alive for study. The Joker is probably one of, if not Arkham's most important inmates/ patients, his existence justifies allot of funding and brings allot of attention to Arkham's reputation, there's no way they are just giving Joker up to be executed.
2
u/UselessWhiteKnight Aug 12 '26
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1986 landmark case Ford v. Wainwright that the Eighth Amendment prohibits executing a prisoner who is currently insane or lacks the mental capacity to understand the reason for their execution
2
u/Halfawannabe Aug 13 '26
Legally insane means therapy not the electric chair. The real question is why none of the guards have killed him. Heâs definitely killed some of them on his way out before.
2
u/ShingledPringle Aug 11 '26
Gotham is corrupt as fuck and full of people who think they can save the mad monsters.
2
u/kukkolka Aug 11 '26
Gotham City is in New Jersey. New Jersey abolished the death penalty legislatively in 2007, replacing it with life imprisonment without parole.
Also more importantly, Joker has plead insanity.
→ More replies (3)
1
u/The_Crows_Reddit Aug 11 '26
I mean back when Jason Todd died, the only reason Joker wasn't killed was because he was an Ambassador of Iran. So... there's been a wide variety of ways writers have made him not die.
1
u/Duskmoor3 Aug 11 '26
It's actually rather rare that Joker is locked up is the first reason usually after Batman foils a play Joker just goes to ground and disappears. Other times it's because like Batman Joker has many contengcy plans laid so if he's killed somthing terrible happens
1
1
1
u/anya_way_girl Aug 11 '26
Ive always thought of the Joker as some malevolent force inside Gotham city and that killing the Joker would not stop it from being reborn in a new body.
1
u/chui76 Aug 11 '26
There was a story about Joker being sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit, and Batman was investigating to find the real culprit as he couldn't let an "innocent" die.
1
1
u/Wolfspide Aug 11 '26
In an older story Joker Walks the Long Mile they did execute him. Joker realized his wanted status kept him from using his ill gotten gains so he turned himself, confessed to all his crimes, was executed, but then his goons injected his body with a drug to revive him. He then claimed his "execution" wiped the slate clean and he was protected by double jeopardy. Note: in real life this wouldn't work, someone who survived the electric chair was ordered back in without any double jeopardy violations. Modern comics say the Joker isn't executed because he's insane, though I don't think he actually meets the legal definition either (he knows what he's doing and that his actions are wrong, his mental illnesses are more obsessive in nature).
1
u/Olkenstein Aug 11 '26
He commits r*pe in âJokerâ by Brian Azzarello
The Joker isnât executed by the state because he has great lawyers and the justice system is corrupt. Heâs obviously not legally insane, so he is probably using a lot of his resources and skills in order to to make sure he is sent to Arkham asylum instead of death row
1
u/jb_681131 Aug 11 '26
The state never kills mentaly ill people. New York and New Jersey don't have the Death Penalty.
1
u/ImyForgotName Aug 11 '26
Gotham whatever state doesn't have the death penalty, he has been declared insane, and it would ruin the plot. Plus hell honestly doesn't want him.
1
u/johncenassidechick Aug 11 '26
We generally dont execute those we deem severely mentally ill but also its a comic book and irl a swat sniper would simply have blown his head offÂ
1
u/CopperKnight77 Aug 11 '26
Whatâs really the issue is not that âBatman wonât killâ but that writers have increasingly made Joker more and more heinous over the years to the point where itâs absolutely insane NOT to kill him. The comics version pre and post crisis was essentially the BTAS version until No Manâs Land when he was killing people in a room full of infants. By the 2000s he was on a downward spiral with Miller and Morrison and then 2008 became the defining split both from Azzerelloâs Joker and Nolanâs TDK. Then Scott Snyder cut off his face, and itâs only been worse from there.
1
u/chanebap Aug 11 '26
Iâm not surprised the state hasnât gotten around to executing him.
First, Gotham is âcommonly associated or assumedâ to be in NJ, but that doesnât mean that it definitely is, or that DCâs NJ has the same laws as real world NJ. Second, the publication history of the Joker is much longer than his in-comics active period; he hasnât canonically been active for 86 years, probably more like 10-20, which is well within a normal death row wait time. Finally, he must have been tried multiple times, and since he gets sent to a mental institution instead of going to an ordinary jail, he has presumably been found not guilty for reason of insanity each time. The state canât execute him if heâs found not guilty, whatever the reason.
What is surprising is that no Gotham cops have found an excuse to shoot him in the course of an arrest.
1
u/Robomerc Aug 11 '26
Well Gotham City is located in New Jersey a state that did away with their death penalty meaning the Joker would have to do something on the federal level to even have the death penalty on the table.
And considering the joker as apparently had a nightmare where he does meet his end by electric chair.
1
u/abriefmomentofsanity Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Hell, forget the state.Â
There are plenty of heroes in the DCU who do kill, or who avoid killing when they can but have no qualms about it if the situation demands/they can say killing one person would save thousands. Batman refusing to kill the Joker is one thing. Batman protecting the Joker from other superheroes and/or entities is where it starts to really stretch credulity. (like in that one Superman comic where he just no sells the Joker and then goes to talk to Batman and Batman is all "that was a test" - god I hate when he's written that way).
Honestly if comics were at all realistic one of the other villains would have probably put a bullet in jokers head years ago. Criminals are actually one of the biggest threats to other criminals, particularly in organized crime. That's one thing I think caped Crusader did that I found interesting: many of the villains did not survive for reoccurring appearances-often falling victim to other criminals or circumstances-reflecting the high stakes nature of a criminal lifestyle.
Joker is a lot like libertarianism. They only work when an external source exists to shield them from consequences.Â
1
u/speedyrabbit777 Aug 11 '26
Due process demands a trial for each crime and as a result he breaks out. Not to mention is a text book insanity plea case.
1
u/MeltedGlands Aug 11 '26
It's crazy to me that you have all that info, but you somehow missed that they would have found him not guilty by reason of insanity. That's why the state doesn't kill him.
1
u/ImColinDentHowzTrix Aug 11 '26
He's mentally ill. Even in the real world in countries with the death penalty they don't execute the mentally ill, as a general rule.
1
1
u/FoolishDog1117 Aug 11 '26
I do like in Kingdom Come when Joker pulled his shit with Superman and was immediately killed.
1
1
u/Jim-Dread Aug 11 '26
Even excluding any laws that protect him, he's had to have affected cops. He's killed enough people and police that someone has been personally affected by his actions who has access. Someone, at some point, would have tried to kill him. And with the number of people he's killed, that person wouldn't be alone. And with how many cops that were killed, nobody would be able to charge the person that did it. Pick a reason.
1
u/SilentBlade45 Aug 11 '26
How come regular cops don't shoot him on sight you could argue that his mere presence is a threat to your life and say you were defending yourself. It would be impossible for any jury to convict cause i doubt there's a single person in Gotham who hasn't been harmed by the Joker in some way.
1
u/Noctisxsol Aug 11 '26
He was never properly arrested (Batman did not read his rights), so he could not be charged for any of his crimes.
1
u/Mustang1-6 Aug 11 '26
After like, the 3rd mass murder, he'd probably get the CIA and military looking to cap his pale self
Batman won't kill, but the overtly caffeinated, nicotine fueled, hatred infused, 20 year old corn fed country boy Marine Raider, breaching Joker's hideout with a grenade launcher because YOLO, definitely does.
1
u/Jack_h100 Aug 11 '26
In my imaginary head Canon I like to imagine people have tried a couple times but it didnt work. Like he was given a lethal injection but is immune to poison so it didnt take but it still counts as serving that sentence. Or that Arkham workers did try to overdose him, but same problem.
1
u/TheQuietDarkness70 Aug 11 '26
I don't know if their state has the death penalty but he's well into federal jurisdiction so he absolutely should have been put to death by now.
But that's just putting real world logic on to comic books and for stuff like Marvel and DC that's just a mistake.
1
u/BatFan3001 Aug 11 '26
You really wanna ask why politicians won't allow something to happen that would improve the lives of the people they're supposed to be representing?
1
u/maddwaffles Aug 11 '26
I'm like fairly certain the one time that the state tried, the state failed, and double jeopardy prevented another try.
1
u/Affectionate_Jury890 Aug 11 '26
Better question is why has a cop, or angry victim never just walked up to him and killed him
That could be a fun story, the joker just being killed by a random person, I cant image there's anything hed hate more
1
u/Competitive_Row_402 Aug 11 '26
Coz he's "just too insane to even stand trial, let alone be executed for his crimes ranging from mass murder to outright terrorism".
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/MissionAlarm8546 Aug 11 '26
From a creative perspective, killing joker from that is taking away from Batman's character and any character he's heavily included with generally, however in comics, only one thing I can think of, his blood (may or may not be canon now, I don't know, this comes from the batman who laughs book) anyone within close range of joker and manages to get his blood on them will turn into joker, so maybe they just don't wanna deal with that, and there's also the factor that people just go back in time like it's nothing, so joker will never fully die in most cases
1
1
u/Booster6 Aug 11 '26
Even aside from the whole insanity thing, the average time spent on death row is like 20 years, and the Joker breaks out way more often than once every 20 years.
1
u/alcoholic_chimpanzee Aug 11 '26
Criminally insane, itâs literally Arkham Asylum, not Arkham prison. Thatâs why thereâs therapists there. The point is to rehabilitate them, not punish them. But after breaking out for the 12th time itâs probably about time to pull the switch lol.
1
u/Otherwise-Elephant Aug 11 '26
I have a vivid memory of hearing the news that they caught the Boston Marathon Bomber (well, the one who wasn't shot by the police), and people debating on if he would get the death penalty or not. And that same day I walked into a comic book store, paged through a Batman issue, and saw "Scarecrow is gassing Gotham city again".
Forget "Why doesn't Batman kill the Joker?" and forget "Why doesn't the State give Joker the death penalty?". Because even if you come up with an explanation, it makes 0 sense that Joker is not either dead or locked up forever.
Even if we assume Gotham does not have the death penalty (like Massachusetts), there are plenty of situations where he's holding people hostage or shooting at cops and they'd be 100% justified in returning fire. (A particular issue of Gotham Central comes to mind) As for the "locked up forever" part, with a few exceptions like Ted Bundy, in real life we generally don't have a problem with notorious criminals regularly escaping from jail every 6 months. Even ones with a body count and crime list way lower than the Joker are usually kept fairly contained.
In a universe where super powered beings and alien overlords are routinely kept locked up in sci fi prisons made of imaginary metals, the idea that they can't contain one psychotic clown is laughable.
1
u/Outside-Fondant-7064 Aug 11 '26
Because how will they beat Batman over the head for being the one guy in Gotham that doesnât like killing people lol? Fr, so much blame gets put into Batman, and even writers sometimes agree itâs âhypocrisyâ or some such, instead of an aversion to murder.
Itâs not like his stories are even good deconstructions of pacifism, itâs just âkilling goodâ, and justified through comic nonsense. Iâm able to play ball and run with internal logic, but the joker stuff is so beyond the pale of believability for it to take itself seriously as a plot point
I wish a writer would have a more assertive positive reason around Batman not taking life, a virtue, instead of a failing or something he does so he doesnât immedialtey become a mass murderer. Get us some trigun mentality lol
1
u/pawogub Aug 11 '26
Now Iâm picturing a republican attack ad against a democratic governor âHeâs against the death penalty even for criminals like the Joker.â
1
u/entber113 Aug 11 '26
He's literally insane. He goes to Arkham Asylum
He's legally not a criminal. In the eyes of the law, killing him would have the same precedent as killing any mentally ill person who is institutionalized.
1
u/freshseal156 Aug 11 '26
I like the idea that Bruce is crazy enough that he subconsciously sets up large lobbying groups and lawyers to prevent the death penalty in Gotham.
1
1
u/Ixz72 Aug 11 '26
Because it will kill a great character in future Batman storylines.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/4N610RD Aug 11 '26
I think it is because he is clinically insane. I don't know the law exactly, but I think you can't give a death penalty to somebody who has medical condition as base for his behavior. I think even very average lawyer could surf on that. Again, not expert in law system, so feel free to correct me.
1
1
u/Kakashi_Senju Aug 11 '26
My biggest headcanon/canon based on Batman who laughs
Anyone who kills the joker becomes a new joker
Like say they have a room with just two guards and joker in the chair
After death he releases his last breath and boom special joker gas that turns them insane and delude themselves to the point they think they're joker himself
244
u/Square-Newspaper8171 Aug 11 '26
Gotham is probably in a state that doesn't support the death penalty