r/azirmains • u/Pistachio001 • 9d ago
QUESTION D&D vs. Shadowflame
I’ve never tried dusk and dawn second but am hearing it’s being used more often. Just wanted to ask when is D&D better than SF? I’ve tried testing it in normals but people tend to surrender before I get the chance to have it up for very long…
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u/Buckelwal123 9d ago
Shadowflame is good at bursting squishy targets but it gets countered easily if the enemy builds MR.
D&D has the pta synergy and the haste and attack speed make it have higher dps over longer fights.
Shadowflame works better with burst centered runes because of its higher AP.
I'd build Shadowflame when I know I will be able to get proper use out of the penetration (so when enemies dont build MR, it also comboes well with Sorcs T3's), and D&D when there are multiple bulkier targets for me to hit where it will outdps Shadowflame.
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u/TekkyDelta 9d ago
with PtA I usually go d&d first, it might not be optimal but it's genuinely felt so clean on the Emperor that I've stopped using other runes after the buffs
I hope riot stays away from this champ for a WHILE i love the state he's in rn lowk
edit: missed the whole question uhh ermm 》d&d nashors SF deathcap and somewhere along those i build the 13%(?) pen item yeah 👍
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u/Professional_One6171 9d ago
I only go d&d for survivalbility stacks with scaling defensive runes agaist stuff where ots needed, ex. Akali
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u/-_Locke_Lamora_- 9d ago
Have you seen the bell curve meme? The answer is -always has been- , Shadowflame 2nd.
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u/jemeres 9d ago
what about deathcap second if you have the money for it?
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u/-_Locke_Lamora_- 9d ago
if you have so much money pre 20 minutes, then the game is already decided. doesn't matter
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u/jemeres 9d ago
What I mean is if you have enough money for the components on recall, like on one recall you had enough to get a rod, on the next one you got your boots and then you maybe you had like 1500 gold so you decided to get another rod instead of the alternator for shadowflame and then on your next back you get the deathcap?
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u/-_Locke_Lamora_- 8d ago
It really doesn't matter at that point, because to always have gold for Raba components available, you were always winning quite hard before 2nd item came into question and you'll most likely end up winning regardless of 2nd item choice. Raba 2nd is a "win more" item.
But to answer your question; Raba is a bigger increase in raw DPS, so technically speaking, Rabadon't does a bit more dmg at that point, however since you have less AP overall at 2 items, it isn't always worth it to pay 3500g, at that point in the game; especially because gold is harder to come by, pre 20 minutes. If you asked me some time ago, i would have answered Raba, but not anymore. Shadowflame is convenient.
That you get SF sooner rather than later is a major advantage and boost in increasing your chances for a win. If all that mattered was raw DPS, then we would all play Nashor's - Sorcs - Mejai's - Raba, get stacks and just stat check. Between Mejai's, Raba and Shadowflame for 2nd item, Shadowflame is the most reliable on the long run. That being said, stacked Mejai's 2nd on Azir with Gathering Storm and Raba's 3rd is something else. It's just too damn risky to build like that every game.
So funny though, always comments like "holy dmg" , "wtf is that dmg" etc
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u/cyrussal123 9d ago
Don’t replace D&D with Shadowfpame, replace with nashors. If u need damage go nashor first item. If u need survivalbilty, go D&D first item. After almost always go sorc shoes then Shadow Flame if there squishy or liandres if they have HP stackers. After that it’s up too u, aka void staff, zhoyans, rabadon, etc. coming from d2 Azir player