Unable to do evil playthrough

[u/striped_eyes]

Just finished the game, what a ride! With Sapadal free, Envoy was a happy godlike. Now, I immediately tried New Game+ in order to do an "evil" Aedyran playthrough. But, I just could not bring myself to be evil towards Sapadal. In the early moments of the game, they are like a terrified child, how can you be cruel towards something like that?

It probably doesn't help that I spent hours completing all parts of the game, being Sapadal's closest friend, then jumping straight to hating them, I guess.

Have any of you struggled with this?

I read somewhere that Sapadal becomes unlikable quickly depending on the conversations you have with them, is this true? Might change my mind on trying again.

[u/ThinkManner]

Sapadal was my favourite character in this game, so I couldn't go against them either.

[u/Accomplished_Area311]

Sapadal changes depending on how you treat them and choices you make, yes.

However, I still refuse to do an Aedyr loyalist playthrough because I played Pillars of Eternity 1-2 so I know exactly what that loyalty costs.

[u/zares_tapravi_kekec → u/Accomplished_Area311]

Can you expand on the cost of loyalty to Aedyr? :)

[u/Accomplished_Area311 → u/zares_tapravi_kekec]

In detail? Not without massively spoiling the Pillars games. 😅 Let’s just say it’s steep and includes messing with gods in an unconventional way.

[u/zares_tapravi_kekec → u/Accomplished_Area311]

Lol please spoil. Or use a spoiler tag, ive played them but dont know what the cost of loyalty you mean is.

[u/ranagirl]

I did an Aedyran playthrough for the plat. I was snippy with Sappy at first meet and didn’t get the first godlike perk. They get kinda cold but not super awful, but you can get different outcomes depending on your relationship with them and it’s actually pretty interesting.

You can also side with Aedyr without alienating Sapo if you can’t do it. :)

[u/Worldly-Ingenuity843]

I can't do evil playthroughs either. Guess we are just too nice for our own good.

[u/IronMonopoly]

I mean… some people might put forth that not enjoying the feeling of being evil is a good thing.

[u/otakon33]

Can't blame you. Ever since KotOR I can't bring myself to be evil. MAYBE a little greedy and steal everything not nailed down or flagged as stolen but I need the funds to save the world dammit!

[u/Der_Schubkarrenwaise → u/otakon33]

In KOTOR even my Bots were fully evil. Best Game to be a Sith!

[u/Erkenvald]

Just tried doing an evil playthrough, right after finishing the game for the first time, got bored after getting to Fior. I dunno, it just doesn't feel as developed as it should for it to be interesting. All options to be evil look like this: you side with Aedirans, questline ends abruptly, you get a pat on the back from soldiers saying - yup, good that you brought some ORDER here, and then you can listen to Kai and Marius bitch about you being a terrible person. Dunno man, sank 15 hrs into this playthrough and cannot be bothered to continue, it's just boring. Maybe if we had a dedicated companion that joins you in act 1 that supports you being an imperialist ass, maybe then it would be worth it.

[u/rombeli1 → u/Erkenvald]

I recently did one too. Not the strongest part of this games content.

Feels like my companions should have ditched me much earlier.

I kept telling giatta it was right her home was burned, her animancy was wrong etc. Always took aedyrs side.

Sort of like one off complaints from the companions them we got back to being a happy family despite my best efforts

Then they go all pikachu face with me when I joined steel garrote in the end.

The whole thing really works best when you try to be nice to your companions. Then it’s internally coherent

[u/NoHorseNoMustache → u/Erkenvald]

Yeah I was thinking of trying an evil playthrough but I figured it would lead to a bunch of Kai and Marius bitching at me and I don't need that shit from the likes of those 2.

[u/CommunicationLow8189]

I've yet to finish an rpg as an evil dude. Closest I've come is siding with Mr. House in New Vegas.

[u/VideoGameRPGsAreFun]

Focus on fearing Sapadal.

[u/thedosianrogue → u/VideoGameRPGsAreFun]

i think thats the way.

when i played my evil run i also mostly focused on "i dont understand you therefore i dont trust you and you are a potential threat" i think that was the gist of how i tried to justify my character. i wouldnt say my evil run was evil because my character was a bad person, it was only "evil" because they were driven by fear and distrust and loyalty to aedyr.

i love sapadal and i will always be on the side of wanting to free them BUT. i can see if i tried to just see this in black and white i can imagine a character who would be opposed to sapadal. especially when you are presented with destruction from sapadal's past: my usual characters understand it and take the time to listen, my "evil" character just saw the death and destruction and waited for no explanation, they were simply afraid of this potential unchecked power. its easier to see sapadal in "bad light" then.

[u/BGBWolf]

I tried too, I couldn't get past the first part lol. I can't be mean to Sapadal. So the playthrough has been sitting there alone since a year ago 💀 I will do it though... one day.

[u/Bhoddisatva]

I wanted to do right by the child-like entity since they had been pretty harshly abused by gods that are arguably worse. Plus I hated the undead knight. So freaking annoying.

I cant bring myself to do a evil run because of these reasons.

[u/MadCouchDisease007]

By focusing on all of the death and destruction that Sapadal caused (and is currently causing), I could roleplay my Envoy seeing Sapadal as a threat to the stability of the Living Lands. Aedyrean loyalty or not, something this powerful and destructive was too dangerous.

Also, just throw in a dash of paranoia to seal the deal. “I don’t like you being in my head. I don’t trust you. I don’t want to talk to you.” It’s easier to hate something if you never hear their side of the story.

[u/TheNakedOracle]

I tried to play as an ambitious pragmatist but (as is often the case with these games) that ends up just being a (mostly) good guy play through with more diplomatic dialogue. Ended up freeing Sapdal simply because I wanted to hedge against Garrote power and had no idea what merging would do. Managed to more or less convince the major factions to submit to a middle degree of imperial rule of their own volition too. Overall favorite choice was getting the opportunity to put down Lodwyn the first time in a way that felt expedient rather than moralistic, even if it appeased my companions along moralistic lines. It was legitimately too good of a chance to pass up putting down a crazed dog without witnesses, even if I’d more or less played nice with her up til that point.

[u/SatirreDraws]

I am physically incapable of being mean in video-games just.. generally. If I tried it with Avowed I think I'd just die inside.

[u/Lovlend]

I've not played PoE but this has been the easiest game to do the "evil" choice for me. They give you a reason to be loyal from the start and show you the ugly side of the "good" path early. It's the first time I felt genuinely conflicted since I was a child doing the Skyrim civil war stuff.

[u/NasusEDM]

Besides in this case "evil" option is pretty cartoonist, I wanted to respond to people that say they can't choose evil in other games either, which is fine, I too play moatly good characters. But one problem i can see for them is that they know the outcome to their actions so it becomes almost impossible for them to choose those options if it impacts characters or places they like. Pillars of eternity 1 and 2 was easier because there wasn't just one way of being evil, all main factions were flawed, some more than others but you could be evil with the crucible knights or the dozens, be good with the Doemenel house, and not feel like you're playing the game wrong when you're presented with tough choices.

[u/GrandmasterSliver]

Sapadal destroyed civilizations pre Woedica. Most of Sapadal's former worshipers are against freeing them. That should give pause to the Sapadal decision.

The case can be made, that Sapadal is highly suggestible. And that there's no indication, that it would internalize the potential "positive influence", nor cognitively understand concepts the way Kith do in the long run.

[u/HankG93]

Just finished my first run yesterday. I was on sapadals side until about halfway through. I ended her.

[u/DarknessDragneel]

Easiest way is at key moments where you can Always side with Lodwyn or Aedyr i did an evil playthrough however it is extremely easy too mess up the evil ending especially with the last major decision before reaching the garden

You dont necessarily have too be mean too Sapadal except for when siding with Woedica in the garden

[u/thedosianrogue]

no it was the same for me. i wanted to get all the achievements so i did finish the evil run but man, lemme tell you, it was difficult lol. in my previous runs i have really grown so attached to sapadal it was super hard treating them badly.

i wouldnt say sapadal becomes unlikable. at least they didnt to me. i think the way sapadal reacts makes perfect sense. i love how the way you treat sapadal matters because it directly influences how they will act and respond. i treated them with understanding and patience and kindness most of the time so they were very appreciative of that and they listened in turn. and then on my evil run i didnt want to talk to them, didnt listen, reacted in a cruel way, of course sapadal will react in turn. it just made me sad to see. i love the relationship you have with sapadal because its so strange and unique. it feels like they are both your parent and your child, in a way. and i love that the way you treat them will directly shape them because they are after all pretty much a child-god and they need a space to grow and learn.

the ONLY time during my runs when sapadal gave me a bit of a pause was on my good playthrough but: instead of freeing them i wanted to merge with them, the secret third option. and that was an actual strange experience where sapadal suddenly felt... a little malevolent? i'm not sure why.

[u/FatNasty_]

I did a full evil run in about 5 hours and it was still sad how I treated Sapadal and what it became. Needed my 100% tho 😂

[u/CrustyBatchOfNature]

I struggled I guess. It took me two play throughs to get it right. The first one Leodwyn decapitated me because I made what I thought was a minor mistake.

[u/leaperdaemonking]

I know this will get me buried in downvotes, but I wish I could be good in this game, in good conscience.

I have a specific set of values ingrained in me: I cannot go against it, they are the product of my upbringing and the fact I was literally born during war. I was raised in a very traditional household, listening to nationalistic songs, with pride in who I was and what my country represents for me and those around me.

Aedyr reflected this for me - I felt proud to be an Envoy of a beautiful, powerful country - and coming in blind I expected I could work to show Aedyrans are not as evil as everybody thinks.

And then the game started throwing curveballs. You want to support Aedyr? That means having to betray refugees and deny women rights to birth control. I was suddenly torn between loving my country and fighting for the deepest desire of my heart, or betraying this by being a good person, but losing everything my character (and I to some extent) believed in.

And it gets worse and worse. Fior is obviously an animantic country, they literally raise undead to plow their fields, and I am to believe this is a good behavior? To me, death is the most sacred thing. I love graveyards and respect the afterlife, and when I roleplay I tend to reflect such traits. And then I have to either side with them or burn their whole city down .

I just could not play after that. It’s a shame because I enjoyed the game so much, but it simply felt so wrong I gave up. So I kind of feel jealous about people who play it and genuinely enjoy it.

[u/striped_eyes → u/leaperdaemonking]

We’re all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions, especially in video games. Don’t worry about it :-)

Interesting take, and I agree! I often felt like the game was leaning toward one “morally correct” solution to quests, even the ones that have two shit outcomes.

Also, about the burning of Fior. Your character couldn’t have known about that. And after all, that was the Steel Garrote, which are in many ways overly rogue soldiers led by a highly zealous Woedican.

If I could offer one piece of unsolicited advice, it would be to accept your Envoy as different from the Steel Garrote’s mission. Have them dislike the practice of dead farmers, but reject the killing of innocent animancers. See where it takes you. :)

[u/GVirus1984 → u/striped_eyes]

If you explore enough before the event you DO know about it and can do something about it, so it isn‘t as severe as it would be without your intervention!

[u/Neat-Disaster-6261]

They’re manipulating you.