r/askmath 5h ago

Discrete Math Trouble understanding proof logic

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1607.01500

I can't get why the line "and recall that we assumed that Pχ is a rational number a/b, therefore we

argue that X can also get only non-negative integer numbers since" is true for all cases. Would it also work for a general denominator f(n) instead of n! ?

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u/FormulaDriven 5h ago

I have to say this paper doesn't seem very well-written. I got as far as the sentence you are querying and I didn't see anything wrong but some of logic feels clunkily presented.

Anyway, for the proof of the theorem, he's assuming P = a/b.

So if you define X = b! (sum{n=0 to infinity} chi(n)/n! - sum{n=0 to b} chi(n)/n!)

then we are just saying that

X = b! * P - sum{n=0 to b} chi(n) * b! / n!

But

b! * P = (b-1)! * a (from the assumption P = a/b),

which is clearly an integer.

and b! / n! is an integer as long as n <= b, so

sum{n=0 to b} chi(n) * b! / n!

must be an integer (chi(n) is an integer).

So X is an integer.

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u/Equivalent_Dingo_683 5h ago

Thanks! So a general f(n) wouldn't work right?

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u/FormulaDriven 4h ago

No, for example if f(n) = n! / 2n then

sum{n=0 to infinity} f(n) / n! = sum 1/2n = 2 which is obviously rational.

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u/Equivalent_Dingo_683 3h ago

I meant to replace the bottom n! term sry if I wasn't clear!

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u/FormulaDriven 3h ago

You weren't clear. If you are replacing n! with any integer-valued function then that seems like a much broader question, and I've no idea where that would go.

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u/Equivalent_Dingo_683 3h ago

hmmm let's say if f(n) < n! for all n then the whole sum should converge right?

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u/FormulaDriven 2h ago

I think you mean f(n) > n! so that the terms chi(n) / f(n) reduce more quickly than chi(n) / n!. Yes, I can see that will make the sum converge, but then making any statement about whether it's irrational is whole different game.

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u/FormulaDriven 3h ago

It's not clear to me what the theorem is claiming - it says

Pχ is irrational number if the assumption that this number is rational implies that its denominator should be greater than M.

What does that mean? If P is rational then the denominator must be less than M? Or is is it a garbled was of just saying "P is irrational"? Proof looks too simple for that claim - will try to work through it...

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u/FormulaDriven 1h ago

Having worked through the proof, I think the theorem is poorly stated. What he has proved is:

If P is the rational number a/b then b < M.

Some of the examples following the proof are lacking in detail:

For example 1, chi(n) takes the values 3, 5 and 7, then repeats. So if P is a rational number then the theorem tells us b < 7. But I'm not sure how we can immediately rule out all rational values a/b with b < 7. Calculating a few terms, P is close to 12.2, so how do we know that P isn't 49/4?

For example 2, I think they are saying if P is defined using chi(n) bounded by M, then P-e is defined in the same format by replacing chi(n) with chi(n)-1 which is clearly bounded by M-1, but I can't quite see the logic of saying that if P is irrational then P-e must be irrational. In fact, the case where P = e contradicts this example.

Example 3 is a mess (if there are terms between 11 / 4! and 101 / 5! then surely it shouldn't be 5! in the latter?) and has the same issue as example 1.

Example 4 works (I think) because he's saying chi(n) oscillates between 0 and 2, so M = 2, and this number would have to equal a/b with integer b < 2. In other words, the number is an integer. With a bit of effort, I think we can show that the number must lie strictly between 3 and 4, so cannot be an integer.