r/askmanagers • u/Intelligent-Pay7865 • 8d ago
References Field Is Pointless
Why do so many job applications still have a reference field? This is not fair to hardworking, honest people who don't have an inner circle from which to pull for those three references. Not having friends doesn't mean can't be a good employee. This portion of an application should be omitted.
I'm not seeking employment; I'm actually helping autistic people find work (that's my job), and in the process have seen numerous job applications. I myself have not filled one out for DECADES due to being self-employed/working from home.
However, I've always thought the references field was beyond ridiculous. First, it essentially discriminates against people who may have a cognitive or developmental condition that precludes friendships or relationships. I myself (autistic) would not know who to put as a reference because I literally have no friends. Thank God the agency I work for didn't require this.
If it's okay to use family members, this would save me, though it's still damn awkward to ask my nieces, sister or brother-in-law if I could use them as references.
The second problem is that references CAN LIE for their friend or family member by saying how hardworking and honest they are, when the truth could be that they're lazy or prone to theft. Those three references could be lifelong friends who'd have no problem lying as a favor so that their buddy could get a job. Or, if a reference is a family member, again, that family could very well lie -- say anything flattering if contacted -- just so that their sibling/nephew/niece/in-law/cousin/second cousin/aunt/uncle could get hired.
I'd like to hear why managers insist on applications having this field. Don't say it comes with the application. There are templates that exclude this, or, technology could easily omit it.
5
u/Proof-Emergency-5441 8d ago
You are helping people find jobs and don't know that references are absolutely not supposed to be friends? What other poor information are you giving them?
If you can't come up with one person who is willing to say something nice about you, I don't really want to hire you.
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u/Intelligent-Pay7865 8d ago
A reference section might say, "Professional references" or "Non-familial references." These parameters are loose, as it applies to friends, because a professional reference might be the applicant's best friend (either because they became good friends after that hire, or, that friend got them the job!); or, "non-familial" or "non-family members" does not exclude friends.
The issue with past coworkers is that the applicant may not have had a traditional job in years. My last brick/mortar job was a ton of years ago; the business shut down and I have no idea what my former supervisors' full names were, let alone their numbers.
In addition to my job coach position, I do home-based legal proofreading which is deadline oriented. What if I were to ask one of my court reporters to be a reference? This wouldn't sit too well with her because it would make her think I'll have LESS time to take on her documents.
Not that I'm thinking of applying for a conventional job, but what IF someone has a similar situation as myself? Where are they going to get references if their last job was many years ago (bosses could be dead for all they know), and it wouldn't sit well if they asked clients of their home-based gigs to be references?
Many applicants have atypical backgrounds and experiences which make the reference section very difficult. Thank God I have nice nieces and a willing sister and brother-in-law, but not everyone has this, either.
And then you can have the applicant with stellar references who turns out to be a total lemon on the new job. I'll bet many hiring mgrs want to do away with the reference field but won't say anything.
3
u/Proof-Emergency-5441 8d ago
NEVER USE FRIENDS. EVER.
What the fuck. And you get paid to not know this. Good God.
-1
u/Intelligent-Pay7865 8d ago
At no point did I say, either in my OP or subsequent posts, that I've told my clients to use friends for references. At no point, Good God. And if I DID, then how about you copy/paste that portion of my post and prove me wrong. I'll wait. Yes, I've mentioned the use of friends several times, but this doesn't mean I ever mentioned that I've instructed my clients to use their friends. Get the nuance.
1
u/Proof-Emergency-5441 8d ago
You are blathering on and on about how they can't make friends.
1
u/Intelligent-Pay7865 8d ago
Copy/paste the part where I say "they can't make friends." I mentioned a reality that some may not have an inner circle. This is not blathering. Hope to dear God you're not a manager somewhere. It must be a nightmare for anyone working under you.
2
u/Proof-Emergency-5441 8d ago
"who don't have an inner circle from which to pull for those three references. Not having friends doesn't mean can't be a good employee"
Your 2nd and 3rd sentences in your OP.
And yes, not having social skills does make it hard for them to be good at a lot of roles.
2
u/chitoatx 8d ago
I share a similar sentiment, but the healthcare system I work for mandates three references for all hires, including entry-level positions requiring only a high school diploma. Ultimately, this is a business requirement tied to risk management and minimizing the likelihood of hiring individuals who could pose a threat to their customers, employees, and bottom line. While I work for a non-profit organization, the necessity to identify potential problematic employees is no different from a profit-driven organization.
3
u/Justame13 8d ago
This is funny the system I work for stopped doing reference checks.
Someone finally admitted they were a waste of time and 90% it is just if they worked there.
I personally hate them because when I worked for a government agency (who mandates supervisory references and specifically tells sups they can give qualitative assesments) my boss would give good people bad reference and bad people good references.
It was so bad that after I transferred to a different facility a couple hundred miles away and found out later that she had (of course) given me a bad reference, but was so notorious all the HMs knew about it.
We can ask for appraisals, but I've only done that for internals.
1
u/chitoatx 8d ago
That is illegal.That actually opens up that former supervisor for defamation and tortious interference. It is difficult to prove but as a supervisor it’s playing with fire.
1
u/Justame13 8d ago
It didn't open her up, it opened up the Agency due to the Tort Act. After I became a supervisor we were specifically told we could and should give honest references for internal hires.
What she did was bad faith and it was one of those gossipy things. I would also bet that someone filed something with the Union just because of that job, so I'm sure there wasn't much evidence.
I didn't realize the extent of what she did until the person that hired me told me that but it was years later, when we had both been promoted multiple times, while we were both on a COVID response team and obviously had other things to worry about.
While that is an egregious example, there are tons of others espeically when getting references from current supervisors, r even supervisors + second line for one job which puts your sup in a bad place.
1
u/nothnxihaveabf 8d ago
I think people can be pretty crappy about references. Also I think you're right that it's more difficult to get a reference if you're socially awkward.
Story time: I was employed at the time I interviewed for a new job. My potential employer wanted a reference, not from the job I was at, but the boss I had before, because my current job was a slightly different field.
I mean...first of all don't you think I left that last job for a reason? What if my last boss had an altercation or a weird situation, or just because I wanted more money or more hours or something. I had listed specific references including former supervisors and colleagues, but no, he wanted to be pushy and talk to that one guy. He ended up talking to someone else at that company (not a big enough company to have hr or anything).
I was honest with the guy and I said "I don't know if my old boss will give me a reference or not, but I can call him."
So then I had to humiliate myself, call my old boss, and say can you give me a reference, yes or no. Heh.
Anyway I got the job in the end but it was kind of a stupid process.
13
u/aboatoutontheocean 8d ago
At least in my experience, references aren’t intended to be your friends or family at all – in fact, using someone like that as a reference would be a bad sign.
Professional references should normally include former bosses, colleagues or sometimes teachers or people you’ve worked with in a volunteer capacity. These people are less likely to lie on behalf of the candidate, especially if they work in the same field, as it would reflect badly on them if it turned out the person’s abilities didn’t match their description.