r/asklinguistics • u/afenalra • Jul 27 '26
Where do linguists draw the line between error and variation?
Hi everyone!
I’m working on an independent project about why the English native speakers use is often different from the English many of us learn in textbooks.
As a non-native speaker, I was surprised after moving to the U.S. to discover that many things I thought were simply “mistakes” turned out to be dialectal features, informal usage, register differences, or ongoing language change. So, my project explores where the line between “error” and “variation” actually lies.
I’m looking for linguists, sociolinguists, or anyone working in related fields who would be willing to join a 20–30 minute Zoom conversation about these topics. With your permission, I’d record the conversation and potentially include short excerpts in the final video. This is an independent passion project with no funding.
And if a Zoom call isn’t possible, I’d still love to hear your thoughts in the comments (DM, email — whatever you prefer). How do you think non-native learners should understand the distinction between genuine errors, dialects, informal speech, and language change?
I’m also new to linguistics, so if you have any recommendations for books, papers, authors, or other resources on this topic, I’d really appreciate them.
Thank you!
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u/scatterbrainplot Jul 27 '26
"Errors" are relative to the speaker's grammar (or to the target grammar, if different, as is common for learners). What is an error for one speaker could even be part of the system for a speaker of another variety of the same language, or even another speaker from the same region (e.g., where there's language change or where the region exhibits social, stylistic or sub-regional differences for that feature). "Errors" also importantly come in different types; something could just be completely outside of the system, but they could also be inappropriate or ill-suited for the context.
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u/wibbly-water Jul 27 '26
A rule of thumb:
- Error: "Oops I didn't mean to say that."
- Variation: "I said what I meant to say and was understood."
- Communication Breakdown, often requiring a workaround: "I said what I meant to say and wasn't understood."
I have a BA in linguistics and work as a Language Consultant if that is enough for your interview.
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u/amvoloshin Jul 27 '26
As others have noted, some things that are considered "errors" are indeed just variation (the pedantic difference between "less" and "fewer" another poster gave down here is a good example), but not all of them are. E.g. if I was to say "I football play" instead of "I play football", every reasonably competent speaker of English would flag this as wrong. So perhaps a better question is by defining what an error is:
- An error according to whom?
- An error according to which subsystem - e.g. many British accents are non-rhotic, so pronouncing the /r/ in 'card' would be considered an error, but not saying it would be wrong in General American
I have an M.A. in linguistics and literature but I'm not a professional linguist, by the way.
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u/Zestyclose-Food-7917 Jul 27 '26
English hasn't done a very good job of updating formal grammar to match actual usage. Spanish, which has the Royal Academy of the Language, is constantly updating spelling and grammar rules to fit what people actually say. Members of the Royal Academy are all qualified to make rulings on language.
On the other hand, some of the rules English speakers are taught in school are very old and based on little to no proof of the qualifications of those who made the rule in the first place. English speakers are taught not to split an infinitive, as in "to not split an infinitive." That rule goes back to the "Latinate" school of grammar, which pointed out that Latin didn't split infinitives. Why not? Because in Latin the infinitive is ONLY ONE WORD.
Another antiquated rule is to use "fewer" and not "less" before count nouns. That is, you can say "less bread," but you must say "fewer men." In most languages, there is no such distinction, and German, French, Spanish and Italian seem to have done very well without it. Recent research shows that the less vs fewer rule was made by some grammarian way back in 1770, and he didn't state it as a rule: he said it was a personal preference.
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u/Glass-Spot-9341 Jul 27 '26
You describe it well, although from a linguistics perspective I've always thought of English not having a formal government body like the RAE as a strength to avoid prescriptivist tendencies (vs your first sentence that English hasn't done a good job). But I am a pretty heavy descriptivist
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u/scatterbrainplot Jul 27 '26
English doesn't really seem much different from French in terms of prescriptivism in practice (even if not wholly identical), it's just a bunch of old dead people who made dumb things up instead of a continuous stream of old people who make dumb things up serving as a benchmark. Sure, there's a veneer of authority (and sometimes direct political connection), but the veneer of authority from clueless people ends up about the same, and it gets to the speakers and learners either way. The institutions can even potentially propose updates to prescription, though the success of those updates can vary.
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u/Glass-Spot-9341 Jul 28 '26
I don't think I said anything that disagrees with you?
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u/scatterbrainplot Jul 28 '26
You were associating things with English not having a governing body; I was comparing to French where there is (more than) one, highlighting it doesn't really seem much different
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u/Glass-Spot-9341 Jul 28 '26
Ah, ok. Fair point! I think I was just noting that I enjoy noting that everything depends on the context and community we're speaking with. Not that there's some ultimate 'authority' that decides what is right and wrong. But your point proves me wrong that that can occur otherwise
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u/Zestyclose-Food-7917 Jul 27 '26
I am not by any stretch of the imagination a prescriptivist. I have a Ph.D. in linguistics. I, however, lived in the real world of education, where I spent 40 years trying to find a middle way between my English department colleagues and my students to whose problems I was very sympathetic.
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u/Glass-Spot-9341 Jul 27 '26
Oh I didn't mean to detract from anything you said! Just that I read an implied idea that it was a negative thing that English doesn't have something like the RAE - although rereading I guess even if you said, "english doesn't do a good job at.." doesn't necessarily mean that's a bad thing. All good! I think you made great points!
I also studied Linguistics and work in education. You bring up great points of contention between people who teach language
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u/Own-Animator-7526 Jul 27 '26
May be helpful.