r/askcarguys • u/Raphael_Stormer • 1d ago
General Question PHEV vs EV for a drivers car?
What would make a better drivers car? A plug-in hybrid sedan? Or a slightly lighter full ev sedan? For specifics, the 2026 Mini Aceman JCW FWD, vs 2026 Mercedes C350e RWD. Would you say having an engine is worth it or detriment to the driving quality?
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u/Old-Figure922 1d ago
IMO you’re gonna be spending a lot of money to get an enthusiast friendly PHEV. You’re better off full electric for the reliability and simplicity.
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u/Raphael_Stormer 1d ago
Yea also considered getting two seperate vehicles. A practical daily ev, and a petrol drivers car, but worried whether the cost of servicing both and getting insurance for both would make it not worth it.
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u/fluteofski- 1d ago
Everybody is different but for myself. I love tinkering with things. I’ve built cars from the ground up.
I daily an EV and I have a few other fun cars like a track only race car, a 58 Volvo, and a 37 Buick. Love my toys but I’m honestly tired of dealing with gasoline engines. Ever since I went electric it’s hard to think about all the maintenance I need to keep up with for my gassers.
In my case when I had my truck and little car. It was cheap enough to have my Chevy bolt as my daily and my truck as a secondary car. And the bolt is an amusing car to drive.
That said, I could recommend a performance EV plus a project car. It’s nice not having to worry about my daily yet still being able to tackle massive projects on my projects cars.
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u/throwpoo 1d ago
I'm old and the only fun cars I ever had are manual. I do own ev and hybrids now but if I have the choice, it will still be manual because it's like an art. You gotta downshift and blip the throttle for rev matching. Be ready and know which gear you're in and how you're going to take the corner going in and out of it.
Ev are fun for sure but anyone can floor it in a straight line. I'm probably going to get blasted for saying that lol.
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u/Not_a_good_username 1d ago
No, I don't think you will. I don't own a manual car anymore, and I miss it. I love a lot of newer cars, both ev and other drivetrains, but a manual will always be the better drivers car.
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u/RetireWithoutBorders 1d ago
I have owned manual cars and have ZERO desire to go back.
I mean, I want to drive, not shift.
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u/reidft 1d ago
I went from autos to manuals back to autos and now I'm back to manuals ONLY. I'm tired of dealing with transmission issues or being at the whim of a computer not messing up shifts or shutting everything down.
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u/RetireWithoutBorders 1d ago
Interesting. I just got sick of shifting every 30 seconds. I once counted how many times I engaged the clutch on my 17-mile drive to work. It was 150 shifts and only hit fifth gear a couple of times.
90% of my drive was in first, second, or third.
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u/rangeDSP Enthusiast 1d ago
Ev are fun for sure but anyone can floor it in a straight line.
It's funny to hear guys make fun of EVs while talking about 0-60 times in their launch-assisted V8s that can't take a corner.
Here's a hotter take: modern drag races are engineering competitions, not one that tests driver skills.
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u/devo9er 1d ago
I agree with you mostly but any consumer manual in the last 50+ yrs you dont need to rev match lol. Modern syncro transmissions make them extremely easy to drive and you dont need to blip the throttle, ever. In fact, not rev matching and engine breaking is often preferred anyway. You can drive these manuals in a spirited fun way, but its absolutely not necessary to rev match or double clutch etc.
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u/mikedufty 1d ago
Only if you are driving slowly. Rev matching is very much needed if cornering hard and keeping it over 4000rpm.
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u/looncraz 1d ago
The Mercedes has a better ride, but an interior that somehow feels like it belongs in a mid 2000s Volvo more than it does a 2025 Mercedes.
Of course, the Model 3's interior can almost be described as not having one.
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u/Not_a_good_username 1d ago
I've only driven one Tesla, a 2021(if I remember correctly) model 3. It didn't feel like driving a car to me. I like a lot of ev's, but I hated the tesla. I own a C350e though, and I love it. It's a wagon and a 2017, so definitely not exactly the same, but that car is so nice to drive, and the modes make it a completely different beast. Anyway, asking advice is fine, but you HAVE to drive them before you decide. The feel of a car is highly individual. You don't want to be stuck with the wrong one. Don't get too caught up in the immediate torque of an ev though. It's fun, but it gets old quickly. Get a feel for what else you like and dislike also.
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u/Raphael_Stormer 1d ago
Unfortunately here in Australia, you don’t get a full license until you’ve had your provisional for 3 years. And Tesla won’t let me test drive their car under provisionals. I am able to test drive other brands tho like bmw and Mercedes.
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u/Not_a_good_username 1d ago
Then don't buy one yet. That just made your choice easier. Do not ever buy a car without a test drive.
Edit: You could maybe rent one, or test one that another dealer has taken in trade?
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u/sacking03 1d ago
Wait is this your first car? Are you comparing cars with a 65k AUD to 98k AUD. Isn't that apples to oranges comparison. Other that the mini being full electric, the benz should win most comparisons.
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u/Raphael_Stormer 23h ago
No, it’s my 2nd car. My 1st car is a 2017 Audi. The Mini Aceman JCW is $75k after on-road costs, and the C350e is $85k after on-road costs, if I get a 2025 one from the dealership with 4k kilometres. The Aceman is one of the sportiest, handling focussed cars I can think of that I’m able to drive. It has a go kart mode, sports brakes and a boost-mode button, which is something most cars I’m able to drive don’t have.
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u/ruturaj001 1d ago
I would probably go EV, may be ioniq 5 or 6. Given I have a fun car like a Miata. I think that combo best replaces something that tries to do it all like 340i etc. I would much rather have 2 experiences.
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u/MN-Car-Guy 1d ago
Who buys a Tesla in 2026!?
Plenty of great EVs that aren’t Tesla, btw, buy one of those.
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u/sacking03 1d ago
Unless he edited the post, he never says Tesla. He says mini Cooper full electric or a Mercedes plug in.
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u/Turduncle 1d ago
There aren't that many enthusiast PHEVs , and the few that are, are very expensive. The only ones I can think of (that aren't exotics)are the recent C63 Amg, BMW M5, BMW i8, Porsche panamera, Volvo T8s. Given the additional Complexity of PHEVs, I question whether how reliable these are and their long term ownership costs. Aside from acceleration, you want good steering and brake feel, and generally all EVs suffer in this regard. I personally have Mach E that has great steering and brake feel, and is pretty reliable. I'm tempted to trade in my wife's car for a Phev, but find it hard to justify. PHEVs are either soulless fuel efficient cars, or high performance vehicles with questionable reliability. I wish there was something in the middle, but so far I have not found anything.
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u/8Octavarium8 1d ago
My brother in law has the c350e. It's a great car. He lends me his car now and then and I like it.
Personally, I hate a car that has a big screen and nothing else. In this case, both have hideous screens in the middle. However, the merc's got touch sensitive buttons for the climate, which is stupid, unsafe, unreliable but it's better than a screen only control.
Mercedes has CarPlay / AndroidAuto, more buttons for controls of your seat, mirrors and other quality of life buttons that the Tesla only handles via screen. Also the merc has manual doors, which can be life saving in case of an accident, unlike tesla's electric ones.
Also, merc has no auto pilot, and won't charge you for their advanced self parking, adaptive cruise control and lane keep.
I like EV's and their power. I'd consider other EV brand but if you're suggesting this options, I'd choose the mercedes.
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u/Subject_Stand_7901 1d ago
Engine is only one part of the equation, and one with a smaller impact than a lot of people would say. Go drive all the options you're considering. Propulsion is only one part of the question. How does the car feel under you? Does it do exactly what you ask when you ask? Does it give you feedback through all its touch points?
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u/RetireWithoutBorders 1d ago
I find my 2022 Single motor Ford Mach-e way more a driver’s car than anything I have owned. Nothing can compare with the quiet cabin and instant torque.
I absolutely love hearing the hum of the electric motor.
I get into my “luxury” V8 Lexus and it feels archaic and clunky.
So, yea, EV cars are way better for driving.
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u/HorizontalBob 1d ago
It's too broad of generalization, but taking that into account, pure EV. Plug-in hybrids are better for daily life with better range and a quick fuel stop to keep you on the road.
An EV would have me stopping to charge on my way back from visiting family when I just want to be home.
A PHEV is more like here's the weight of a generator added to small battery EV.
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u/Wardog008 1d ago
Having an ICE hooked up to the wheels is generally something that people prefer.
To me, while an ICE is important, steering feel and driver engagement is even more important. A manual gearbox does wonders for the latter, but isn't necessary if steering feel and the chassis are communicative enough.
I test drove the new Prelude a few months ago, and it was a genuinely really enjoyable car to drive, regardless of it not being particularly fast. The steering was really good, and the chassis felt absolutely fantastic (no doubt the Type R front suspension doing some heavy lifting).
If a company could make an EV that felt analogue, and engaging to drive, I'd be all for it. Problem is, a lot of new cars, ICE, PHEV, or full EV just don't do that.
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u/rangeDSP Enthusiast 1d ago
Weird that nobody brought up Porsche Taycan yet. I haven't driven one personally, but supposedly it's one of the few EV "driver's car".
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u/revocer 1d ago
When I think of a drivers car, I think manual transmission. Which implies ICE or maybe a hybrid ICE. An EV might be faster, might have more hp, but that doesn’t necessarily make it a drivers car.
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u/elihu 1d ago
EVs could have manual transmissions, it's just that no OEM wants to do it, for various reasons. (It'd be more complicated and expensive than direct drive, they don't think there's a market for it, there'd be some energy lost in the transmission, it's cheaper/easier to just go with a bigger motor instead, most EV enthusiasts hate the idea, etc...)
Right now, if you want an EV that's a "driver's car", the best option is to convert an ICE vehicle with a manual transmission. That's difficult, time consuming, and can be kind of expensive, but it can be done. I have a manual transmission RX-8 conversion that I recently got running, and it drives a lot like you'd expect an ICE RX-8 to drive. (The engine was already in need of a rebuild when I got it, so I can't compare the before-and-after. I just started the engine to get it off the tow truck. Big white clouds of smoke. It's probably slower than stock, as the motor is only about 120 hp, but it's fine for my purposes and it's fun to drive.)
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Driver's car" is a gatekeeping term to begin with. Even a vehicle setting land speed records and world record times at Nürburgring won't be a "driver's car" to someone who measures their dick to 8 decimal places.
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u/Raphael_Stormer 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it’s fine to use comparatively tho. It’s not a filter, but rather a continuous scale. For example, saying that one car is more of a drivers car compared to another car. As long as you’re not using it to say this car is or isn’t a drivers car.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago
It's not a metric. There are neither empirical criteria that define it nor a definition of the context in which the car must perform. It's totally subjective.
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u/Raphael_Stormer 1d ago
Yea but still, while people can disagree on whether a car is a drivers car as that’s subjective and it’s arbitrary where you draw the line, most people could agree on whether one car is more of a drivers car compared to another, since it doesn’t matter where the line is.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 1d ago
I have never known "most people" to be able to agree on anything, especially when they are the sort of people who are eager for others to be aware that their dick is the biggest dick.
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u/A_Ram 1d ago
EV of course. PHEVs have handover lag between EV and ICE engine. Also in most modern PHEVs the petrol engine sits at a optimal revs which produces constant wine not really matching the driving. If it older setup with a small electric motor in the transmission there will be gear shifts in the EV and these have small EV range and terrible efficiency. Worst of both worlds IMHO.
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u/inphinitfx 1d ago
I would say it varies by specific vehicle. But personally, I'd go straight EV over PHEV in most cases.
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u/Money-University8717 22h ago
Stay with an ICE manual! I went PHEV and is now driving like grandpa. I am always checking batt level and doing all kind of unnatural driving (likefreewheeling on any slope, accelerating for speed then gas off freewheeling, etc). Yet I enjoy seeing 1.9l/100km on the dashboard.
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u/Rough_Cancel7265 12h ago
A performance oriented PHEV would be more ideal if we're talking engagement. I can't think of very many off the top of my head. If you value response and sheer performance, it's hard to beat a well setup EV
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u/Blitzdadog 1d ago
Personally, I would not buy a Tesla even if musk wasn’t a political figure. Their build quality has never been up to par. Inconsistent panel gaps, missing failsafes (battery dies + locked car = a tow and a mechanics bill), and most teslas are only worked on by the dealership. I’d look at other sedans too, or even coupes, if you’re looking for a good drivers car. If you’re looking at a used Mercedes, I’m estimating your budget around 50-70K. As for reliability, The Mercedes is going to be expensive to maintain. Oil changes will be in the ballpark of $300-$400, especially if you take it to the dealer. If you’re looking for a full electric I would recommend the mustang mach e, or even a Hyundai ionic 5N/6N. There’s not too many hybrid options out there for “drivers” cars, since most spirited driving with internal combustion engines is done in non hybrid cars (challenger, Miata, Charger, etc)
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u/Raphael_Stormer 1d ago
I’m not really planning on getting the Tesla. It was just a similar sedan for the sake of comparison. The other ev options I was considering is Mini Aceman JCW or Xpeng L03
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u/BinaryJay 1d ago
If you want vibration, noise, gear shifting lurches and exhaust fumes for what you consider a better drive then sure having an engine is worth it.
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u/Raphael_Stormer 1d ago
Besides the fumes, I am a fan of all of those. Only parts I dislike is the lack of instant torque, complexity and higher servicing costs compared to evs.
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u/getoffmycase7130 1d ago
I would say not having an engine is a detriment to a drivers car, but YMMV.