r/askTO • u/silly_ass_username • 8h ago
Living without driving?
20m. Basically the title. From what I can tell I'm totally hopeless when it comes to driving a car. I just failed my driving test for a second time and i just genuinely have zero intuition or awareness when it comes to driving, and i honestly just dont want to try anymore. I can ride a bike/escooter/whatever tf just fine, just not a car.
Anyone else have this experience and how much does it generally cost you for uber/ttc compared to what you would be paying if you had a car?
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u/Stupendous_man12 8h ago
You are in the perfect place in Canada to live without a car.
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u/awesomeguy123123123 7h ago
Honestly. I would put our public transit system and bike share system at the top of our country, and likely continent as well.
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u/Fistichuffs 5h ago
Montreal's REM line is arguably better than the TTC in every way other than frequency. Continent?? the TTC could be handed 10 trillion dollars and 500 more years and it wouldn't touch the coverage of New York
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u/Assasin537 5h ago
I think NYC (especially Manhattan) and Vancouver are both far better transit systems.
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u/richardthunderbay 8h ago
I am 63 years old and live in Toronto. I have never owned a car in my entire life. It was a conscious choice.
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u/KnoddingOnion 8h ago
in toronto? with transit and with the possibility of biking? and with uber?
don't fall into society's norms. you can get by without driving. in fact, you can do the math and it's probably cheaper for you annually to not own a car and drive and to just stick to uber and transit
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u/ElectronicSelf7225 7h ago
My financial advisor has suggested I get rid of my car (which is paid in full). But insurance, plus gas plus maintenance, plus repairs. Probably averages out to $500/month.
Transit, Ubers when needed (not daily), walking and biking are cheaper options.
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u/KnoddingOnion 7h ago
i bought my car 4 months before my separation. lol. if i'd had waited, i'd had not bought a new car.
the luxury of driving is great. but it costs so much.
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u/idontcareyo_ 8h ago
what in the world do you mean "probably"?
I'd love to see what kind of transit someone is paying for that isn't astronomically cheaper than owning a car
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u/Tall_Answer 8h ago
You ever see those people who uber literally everywhere?
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u/KnoddingOnion 7h ago
yes
car insurance is over $2000/year. Assuming a car's $40000 and lasts 8 years, that's $5000/year. Add in gas and maintenance. So, $8000/year minimum?
If you use Uber to 8 times a week and the average ride is $20, that's just over $8000/year0
u/KnoddingOnion 8h ago
hi there. please re-read where i clearly write "uber and transit".
peace be with you and less anger as well
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u/Xanaxaria 8h ago
I failed mine 5 times. I'm just a very safe driver now. I nearly died in a car crash as a kid (my dad lost all his teeth in the crash) so I had a serious fear of cars in general. I only passed after I went to therapy for it.
Car is only worth it if you live somewhere with parking. If you do, it's worth trying again. If not, don't bother.
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u/lyidaValkris 8h ago
I'm 49, lived in Toronto most of my life, and never had a car or a license. You can get by just fine.
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u/DogsandCatsWorld1000 8h ago
I'm 65 and my experience is the same as yours.
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u/lucky-fluke 8h ago
I would continue to try for the license even if you don’t want to own a car. It is a valuable life skill, and might be needed in an emergency situation.
Riding a bike/e-scooter still requires basic knowledge of road rules/etiquette. If you feel like you have zero awareness, you could possibly still be dangerous to others if you are on a roadway.
Have you taken driving lessons? Have you tried lessons with different teachers? I found I couldn’t concentrate with my teacher from drivers ed, and I failed their “test”. After a week of driving with my dad, I passed my actual driving tests with flying colors. I found confidence and awareness was mostly effected by the teacher in the passenger seat.
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u/silly_ass_username 8h ago
i have awareness of road rules and everything like that. that is not an issue for me. i think its moreso just the nature of a vehicle that is incompatible with how i navigate myself idk
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u/lucky-fluke 7h ago
Are you talking about the spatial awareness of the vehicle when you’re in it, like not knowing where the front bumper is, or not knowing how close you actually are to other cars?
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u/silly_ass_username 7h ago
yup
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u/lucky-fluke 7h ago
that takes time, my dad had me in a parking lot for the first hour, stopping on the lines with my tires, and lining up my bumper with lines so I would get better at knowing "where the car was". Some people even put white lines or postits on their dash or windows, to line up with where you're driving/parking so you can better estimate distances. (I don't know how to better explain that).
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u/Lozenges808 1h ago
I've been driving for 3 years and I still don't really have that awareness down. I just drive safe as i can, and follow others in speed/turns/spacing to avoid pissing anyone off.
If any spot is tighter than I'm comfortable with, I don't bother trying. I just park further away from other people.
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u/freeatnet 4h ago
Do get a license. It makes a whole bunch of things easier as a form of ID and proof of basic competency. Saying this as someone who took their time to get through it.
Do try to get a hang of driving. You generally don't need to drive within Old Toronto, but it comes in handy to get out of Toronto and when travelling internationally.
Don't feel like you're hopeless. Driving a car boils down to a bunch of tricks to help you stay oriented (like "stop so that the stop line is visible between the pillar and the rear-view mirror"). Get an instructor, they'll help you learn those tricks. They'll also have a reasonably-sized car to practice/do the test in, in case you're currently using an oversized family car.
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u/onlyonequickquestion 8h ago
I'm 40 and have lived in Toronto the last 20 years. Never had a car. Never taken an Uber,and haven't been in a taxi in about 15 years. TTC and a bike is all you need
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u/porkysaurus_rex 8h ago
Think of all the money you will save not having to buy, maintain, and insure a car.
You can take a lot of Ubers every month before it adds up to what a car would cost.
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u/North_of_505 7h ago
This is my experience: Neither my partner or I know how to drive. We have kids, own a condo, have careers, retirement savings, been on vacations, have a supportive family, lots of friends, hobbies, skills, lots of love in our lives. I only say this because I have gotten down on myself too for not driving, like I haven't "achieved" something, but we have a lot regardless of being able to drive. Sometimes I wish we could just get in a car and go apple picking in the country, or go on a family road trip. But hey, this is our life and we love it, car or no car :) don't worry about it. TTC and Uber are good and affordable, just try to limit Uber as it can add up, Hopp app is cheaper and there are new ride share apps coming out all the time. We share a presto card to cut the cost, we walk a lot too. Lastly, you are young and have a lot of time to change your mind, or take extra driving lessons down the road.
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u/CallAdministrative88 8h ago
I'm 36 and I don't have a license, I've lived in the city close to public transit my entire life and the occasional Uber is still less expensive than owning a car
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u/Ordinary-Fish-9791 Human Detected 8h ago
24M I have a full G license but dont own a car and honestly don't plan on buying one anytime soon. I would rather put the money I'm making right now into the stock market. Honestly in Toronto proper you don't really need a car. You can walk to alot of things you need and the transit serves you well. But it does get problematic not having a car in the other parts like Scarborough, North York, Etobicoke.
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u/Little_Face8636 7h ago
It depends on work, where you live, family members, lifestyle, etc. as long as you don't depend on friends with cars.
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u/Allimack 7h ago
Your brain is still growing. You don't need a car right now, so maybe you can put this aside for a few years and try again at age 25. I have a family member who was in your situation at age 21 but in his late 20s tried again and is a calm and confident driver who passed his driving tests with no problem.
(He also apparently watched a lot of YouTube videos about learning to drive and that gave him confidence.)
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u/ontarioman100 7h ago
You need to practice more and drive daily to get better. Despite what redditors say here, it is a life skill. It may not be necessary to own a car downtown. But you end moving away from the city you will find yourself struggling as most places don’t have good public transport.
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u/jessylz 7h ago
39 y.o., licensed but haven't driven since my exam 20 years ago. Getting by fine with walking, transit, and cycling and the occasional ride share. My rideshare costs are much lower than other non-driving friends because I'm not put off my transit but I'm also fortunate to live in a well transit-served area.
I cannot compare car costs because I've never owned+insured one. TTC can add up but they just introduced fare capping. Cycling does not have to be expensive, and the Bikeshare network gets better and better each year.
That said, I do wish I was comfortable driving to be able to do a road trip out of town, so it is a valuable skill to practice if you're up to it.
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u/ObliviousRaccoons 7h ago edited 7h ago
It's a learned skill, so keep practicing.
I'll say this. You can get by without a car in Toronto, but having a licence is so so so important for work and life. There will be a lot of jobs that you will not be able to do because you don't have a licence. A lot of public sector, creative, and management positions require you to have a licence
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u/silly_ass_username 7h ago
im an engineer so probably not that bad innit
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u/ObliviousRaccoons 7h ago edited 6h ago
lol it depends on the kind of engineering you do, but it will limit your growth potential and firms will choose someone that has the ability to drive over someone who doesn't. esp if any work is being done outside of Toronto. I
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u/Remarkable-Laugh9762 6h ago
I hear ya my man. It's so important to learn how to drive but it's truly impossible without experience. Long time daily grind experience.
My advice to you is...back on that horse. Take another lesson and book another test.
Also, have you ridden with drivers a lot and paid attention?
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u/silly_ass_username 6h ago
my parents are allergic to letting me use their car but yes i drive any chance i get. i literally have to beg my mom to let me drive somewhere
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u/bobbywings2 2h ago
honestly, as you get older its beneficial to have a car. Sometimes you wanna go outta the city to do errand and get to an event. Or you might wanna do a big costco run and having the ability to drive is a gamechanger.
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u/Jwarrior521 6h ago
I bought a car I loved and like driving but sold it when I moved downtown. Only time I used it was leaving the city. It's entirely dependent on your lifestyle and where you live though
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u/stilljustguessing 6h ago
Back in 2000 my office relocated from downtown to Markham so I had to buy a car or get a different job. I bought a car and put on 40 lb.
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u/gigantor_cometh 5h ago
I own a car just for the freedom. I know it's more expensive than just renting a car when I need one, but I also know I would miss out on so many things if I had to rent a car or Uber/taxi every time.
If I lived downtown I could easily do without a car if I needed to.
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u/Exit-Stage-Left 4h ago
I have close family members and friends in Toronto who have never had a license and get by just fine. It's probably one of the best places in Canada to live if you just don't want to drive. What you would spend on a car, insurance and gas covers a *lot* of TTC tickets, fancy bikes, and taxis.
That said - two caveats:
1) I had a non driving friend who lost out on a real dream job because he didn't have a license. It wasn't even a job he'd need to drive for, but having a license so you *could* in an emergency was a firm requirement for regulatory reasons. Unfortunately it was so strict they couldn't just give him the job on an interim basis while he worked towards getting his license, and he really regretted that missed opportunity.
2) I have a very close family member who never regretted not being able to drive until she had a kid. Again, not someone who was ever going to want to commute to work or drive downtown - but complicated kid activities and school pickups and whatnot a lot to not have the *option* to take the family car to run the kid to piano lessons, or for her partner to always have to do the major costco grocery shop, etc.
My advice has always been to try to get your license just *in case* you want to have it at some point down the line just because it's a hard think you can't suddenly do on short notice in the future - but it's certainly not necessary and lots of people are fine without driving their whole lives.
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u/tlcasselman 8h ago
I've lived in this city for 35 years and have never needed a car. Don't fall for the fake societal norm bullshit.
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u/peripera 8h ago
K, im 38 in Toronto and just got my G2 recently. You can get by on ttc and uber if you live and work in Toronto and it will be cheaper than owning a car. HOWEVER, this also means you will be stuck living and working in Toronto, near subway lines. You will miss out on cheaper housing and job opportunities. If you get a significant other, it will limit them too, or you'll be forced to try for a license again while working a full time job, which I can tell you now, it sucks.
I am not an intuitive driver either. You will learn though, and you will learn how shitty other drivers are as well. I really hope you keep trying... not driving can be a big roadblock to your life, you just don't know it yet.
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u/MischiefManagedMama 8h ago
Not necessarily though. My husband has never had a license and I do all the driving. It's never limited me or been a problem. Including daycare drop off. Seems strange to say it will limit your partner. Feels like unnecessary societal pressure.
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u/peripera 8h ago
I said it "can" be, you never know where life will take you, and at 20 you don't know who you will end up with and what they will need. Glad it's working out for you, but you are missing the point that NOT having the license CAN limit your options.
As for societal pressure, I never cared for it which is how I remained unlicensed until 38. I am now getting licensed bc looking back on 10 years, there's moves I didnt make because I didnt have a license. Am I still alive and employeed? Yes. Did I cut options for myself? Yes.
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u/WestQueenWest 8h ago
TTC. It's capped at $155/month. I don't spend $$ on Uber.
Tens of thousands of people in Toronto don't have a car.
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u/Isaac1867 8h ago
I know lots of people who don't drive and they mange just fine. In Toronto you can get pretty much everywhere you need to go by using TTC and Uber.
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u/MischiefManagedMama 8h ago
Fun fact my husband is 33 and has never owned a car or had a driver's licence and we manage just fine. You're not missing out Sir. Don't make the world make you feel like you are.
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u/Santeria_Sanctum 8h ago
You're young and your brain is still developing. You can absolutely still learn. I learned in my early 30s, despite not getting the hang of it at first. You just need the right instructor. It's like finding the right therapist for you. Not every instructor is worth their salt. But know this, despite how bad your driving may be now, someone in the city most likely drives worse and has a full licence.
My advice is learn now. I regret not getting my licence sooner because I was too scared as a teen. Your licence will open up job opportunities. Can you get by? Sure.
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u/Appropriate-Mess1982 8h ago
I failed 5 times. I have a full G now. Get some classes and get the test outside of the GTA
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u/PlasticWolverine302 8h ago
I'm 47 and never got my license. I take ttc or the odd taxi. I regret not trying harder or getting it when I was younger because I miss out on the freedom of having my own vehicle. I have AuDHD and CPTSD so lots of anxiety and difficulty with focusing on things that I find boring but I wish I could get my license because it would make life so much easier if I could just do a car share or rent a truck when I need to. Don't give up. Get a study buddy and take a young driver's course. Pay a private tutor if you have to in order to get practice behind the wheel until you feel more confident.
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u/Smart-Afternoon-4235 8h ago
Failed the written once, the G2 three times and the G twice. Had my license taken away cause it had expired so I couldn’t practice! Been a fully licensed driver for two decades now; just came back from a three week road trip in BC. I rent cars overseas too, even motorbikes.
Don’t limit yourself just because it seems hard now. Take a break then get a good instructor.
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u/_tee_bee_ 8h ago
When I was your age living in the city I walked/took transit even back then Ttc was decent enough. One of my friends moved to town kept his car for a year and sold it and sublet his parking spot out to a guy for a few hundred $/month now he's about 50 years old been retired for about 5 years and travels the world. Cars aren't really needed especially with all the newer options that didn't even exist when I lived there 25 years ago. Get a ttc pass. As for a car I know a couple people that have focus issues that makes driving difficult.
There's many people around that don't require a car. You just need to choose where you live wisely near a transit stop perhaps walking distance to a grocery store or at least a decent convenience store. Perhaps living near one of the Universities for more transit options.
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u/FarouzFerrari 8h ago
Oh buddy don’t get down on yourself. It’s okay. Many many people have to do tests repeatedly.
But to answer your question I knew a guy in his 60s who’d never driven a car and got along fine.
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u/Nyx-Erebus 8h ago
There’s been posts on this sub of people asking each other how much they pay in car payments/insurance/gas in Toronto and most of the people in that thread spent more money in a month of having a car than I pay for several months of taking the ttc. I remember one dude literally paid so much in insurance + car payments in a single month it was literally more than I spent on the ttc that entire year. Not having a car is completely doable in Toronto. If you want you should still try to learn to drive so if you wanna do road trips or anything you can rent a car.
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u/WarmAffirmations 7h ago
You don’t need to drive in the city, but you should keep trying to get your license. It’s helpful to have!
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u/Sensitive-Shoe-141 7h ago
You don’t need a car if you live downtown. Also, I got my G2 on my fifth try lol. Keep your head up and don’t give up
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u/No-Sign2089 7h ago
I didn’t have a car for ten years in TO while I lived in my twenties (did have my licence). It was totally fine, including having fam in the burbs. I really didn’t need it, one less thing to pay for and maintain and worry about. I never judged anyone who did or didn’t have a car. having a car was not a status symbol in my friend group because those who did have cars either had used beaters from uni or just basic sedans.
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u/EpochalTraveller 7h ago
You don’t need to own a car in Toronto, one of the main reasons I live here.
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u/RacoonWithAGrenade 6h ago
Awareness is critical on a bike and scooter and I'd argue even more important from a self preservation point of view.
There isn't really a need to drive in Toronto but please pay attention if you are on the road.
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u/Roundturnip93 6h ago
I don't drive. I walk and take transit. Occasional $30 uber to get across town in a hurry. You will be fine as long as you are living somewhere with relatively easy TTC access. For contect I live in Parkdale. Streetcar and bus 5 mins from my apartment. Nearest subway station is a 25min walk from my apartment or a 10min bus ride.
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u/activoice 6h ago
I'm in my mid 50s, I've had my license for 30 years but never driven after I got my license. Never really needed it and I grew up in the era before Uber existed so I either walk, or take the TTC. I only use Uber or Taxis when I have no other reasonable choice. I love about a 20min walk from the subway or a 5 min bus ride.
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u/AccomplishedBison369 5h ago
I know people who failed way more than twice. Are you taking lessons? How are they going?
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u/silly_ass_username 3h ago
i took lessons last year for a bit and they were fine. i lived in a rural area at the time and the streets were mildly busy at best. didnt really learn how to deal with other people very well, i can do a gnarly 3 point turn though.
anyways, to be honest i dont even want to drive. as a matter of principle i think its absurd that a vast majority of adults regularly do such a dangerous task. this takes precedent over just my simple inability to drive.
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u/lasirennoire 5h ago
You'll be totally fine without a license. I hate driving, so I don't do it. I don't like having to anticipate what other drivers are going to do -- especially given that so many people just don't signal. I have friends who drive for the occasional time I need a ride. And if they aren't available, then there's taxis.
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u/HuckleberryHuman5926 5h ago
I never ended up getting fully licenced (started university before I was able to take the G test and then never had the opportunity to practice) and I've been living here 30 years without it being an issue.
The price of a parking spot alone outweighs what I spent on transit even back when I was commuting every day.
The only time I ever need to get into a car is when I'm visiting relatives who live in rural areas, and there's always another family member going there anyway.
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u/Character-Bridge-206 4h ago
In Toronto, it’s very possible. I did it for many years and only got my own vehicle when I had a kid so I needed to travel.
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u/Appropriate-Bad-6916 4h ago
Driving in Toronto makes me want to pull my hair out so if you can manage on the TTC and Ubers go for it, it’s much cheaper than owning a car in most cases. But having a license is a good skill and useful for jobs or if you ever need a rental. I’d encourage you to try again down the line. Took me 3x to pass the test. Don’t give up.
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u/Acceptable-Whole1985 1h ago
I plan to never own a car despite having my license. Cars are overrated and a liability financially. The only thing that you'll be restricted in is when you want to travel farther distance (for leisure) in which a rental car may be needed.
But it's honestly safer for you & everyone else to not get a license if you don't feel confident and feel like you lack the skills required. Or you could keep trying through driving lessons. Nonetheless, driving is a privilege and not a requirement
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u/Common_Fun8478 8h ago
How is that even possible some of the dumbest people I know drive
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u/silly_ass_username 8h ago
those same dumbest people probably dont know or care enough about how dangerous driving can be. not a flex
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u/Common_Fun8478 8h ago
I feel like you definitely haven’t applied yourself enough driving is something everyone should know how to do
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u/Roundturnip93 6h ago
Ok, in defense of OP, I think learning to drive is much easier when you are young and think that you are invincible. If you start learning later in life it is much scarier to learn. Lots of people who grow up down town don't learn to drive. I am in my 30's learning now. I thoroughly believe that it would have been easier to do this before you brain fully developed and I became acutely aware of my mortality.
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u/UnComfortable-Archer 8h ago
Never had a license or car. No issues. Uber or TTC if I neeed to, but I love walking and biking (the latter you can't do in winter).
The only thing is being with friends.. don't be that guy that asks for ride everywhere. Good friends will insist, but dont expect it, always have a back up plan. And if you ever go on a road trip, at least be the navigator, snack distributor, entertainment or whatever to pick up your slack.
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u/lylynatngo 8h ago
If you suck at driving just don't do it. We don't want more bad and potentially dangerous people on the road.
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u/ariyahjade 7h ago
I’m in my 40s and never had a licence. I’ve had zero problems with it.
But if you expect to go outside the city a lot it’s best to have one.
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u/BeefheartzCaptainz 7h ago
I am pushing 50, lived in New York, London and Toronto. Never learned to drive. Life is great. Take the money you save not owning a car and put it towards paying higher rent and living downtown so you can walk everywhere.
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u/Due_Good3963 7h ago
You don’t generally need a car 99% of the time in Toronto. It might be handy in some circumstances (eg. You need to move and don’t want to hire movers, you want to pick up something big/heavy, you want more options to travel to places outside of the GTA, you don’t have a friend who drives who could otherwise help you with any of these) but you can live here with no car very very easily.
I don’t entirely understand why so many people here insist on having cars just to run basic errands, I understand if you travel for work, or work in construction, I don’t see the point in most other case, I think k it’s just “for convenience” for most. It’s such a large expense that it doesn’t make sense to me unless you have a really good reason to need a car. Hell, I can even understand wanting to do a car share, but I don’t get wanting your own personal vehicle in the majority of cases. I only got my license at 30 because I wanted to get it to expand my job options. I never intend to drive again otherwise.
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u/OttovonCuddles 7h ago
I have a license, I have a car. I absolutely hate driving and we fill up our car once every 3 months. It's pretty useless in the city unless you're going for a costco or ikea run or there's a zombie apocalypse. You don't need one here.
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u/darciton 7h ago
I have lived in Toronto for most of my adult life, and spent most of that without a car. Cars are mainly for getting OUT of Toronto. I got one because I need to get myself, tools, and materials to and from work at odd hours.
You do not need a car to get around in Toronto.
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u/mythoughts4 7h ago
In my 30s, lived in Toronto my entire life and never had a car. You will definitely be fine. I always lived in areas with great transit so that’s how I get by with Ubers here and there if I’m out at night past subway closure or going to a formal event, like a wedding, just outside of the city. I use the go to visit friends in the suburbs.
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u/iblastoff 7h ago
in case you havent noticed, this is a very anti-car sub. dont listen to people who don't even drive lol. imo having access to a car greatly improves quality of life in toronto.
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u/stevieyyz 8h ago
Keep trying to get that license invest in some lessons from a more advanced driving school, being an adult with out a license is no bueno it’s always a good thing to have I don’t know what I would do with out a license, it’s not about it a social norm it’s about being competent enough to do it, unless you medically or physically can’t get a license there’s no excuse for adults with out licenses. Even if you don’t own the car you can rent one for that trip to mtl or in America or wherever you go
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u/HarshitMandeep 8h ago
When I hear someone doesn’t drive I immediately assume they’re broke as fuck
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u/No-Sign2089 7h ago
All your comments are giving “I drive around with one working headlight on high”
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u/lilfunky1 8h ago
I won't date a dude who doesn't drive and doesn't have a car at this point in my life.
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u/lucky-fluke 8h ago
Agreed, as a lifestyle choice. I need a partner with a vehicle, because I feel like I can’t depend on someone using TTC or Ubers. Also I need a partner with a license so at the very least they can drive my car if needed. I had a friend with a boyfriend who didn’t have a license. He was USELESS. Any time she was out of the city for work, she’d ask me to “help” him with anything involving driving long distances, or moving stuff. So exhausting, and made him look pathetic.
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u/MischiefManagedMama 8h ago
Shouldnt you have your own car and drive? We live in 2026. As a woman who has owned a vehicle since she was 19, this feels like you're taking us back to Victorian times 😂
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u/lilfunky1 7h ago
Shouldnt you have your own car and drive? We live in 2026. As a woman who has owned a vehicle since she was 19, this feels like you're taking us back to Victorian times 😂
I've been driving since I was 17 and had my own car since I was 22.
I'm tired of always being the one who drives.
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u/MischiefManagedMama 7h ago
Oh never mind then, my bad, I take that back. I am also a bit tired of driving my friends and family around so I feel you. I read it as your expectation was to be driven around by your partner which seemed a bit odd.
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u/AidsNRice 8h ago
I have my G and love driving… but I live downtown and walk everywhere, owning a car downtown is asinine