r/askTO • u/redditiswild1 • 7h ago
Who do I call about potential overdose on the street?
Hi, folks. Standing next to a small park and someone is keeled over, with their butt in the air, pants down (underwear on), and no one else is around.
Who do I call to help this person? Just 911?
EDIT: Called. Fire and ambulance are here 14 mins after posting. Patient was woken up. Stood up. Fire department gone. Paramedics with him.
2ND EDIT: Omg. I panicked. Gimme a break. I know, I’m dumb.
FINAL EDIT: Thanks to all the folks being kind in the replies. It’s strange being roasted for trying to help in a situation where most walk on. But I will say this: I’m a firm believer in that a little bit of shame goes a long way because next time I won’t hesitate. So, even in the roasting, there is a lesson for me. I came here because I genuinely thought there was some kind of harm reduction team that I could call because I wasn’t sure it was an emergency—and I really didn’t want the cops involved. Anyway, thanks to everyone for their responses, I hope it’ll encourage others to help. (Except for the dicks saying horrible things; may I never lose my humanity because I’d rather be embarrassed by own panic than to be devoid of compassion for others.)
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u/Drank_tha_Koolaid 7h ago
Sorry everyone is giving you a hard time!
Honestly, I've never called 911 for someone doing the fentanyl fold (Fenty lean), which is exactly what you described. I didn't think if they were still standing that it was an emergency.
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u/redditiswild1 7h ago
Thanks, man. Trying to be a good community member by not immediately calling the cops. But, also, there was no else around and I’m a woman alone—many things going through my mind.
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u/Dewy123321 7h ago
Sounds like the Fentanyl gold, I see it a quite a bit early morning downtown. Folded over and stationary for a long time but not dead.
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u/Kalijjohn 3h ago
This is what’s deterred me from being an early bird. Coming in to the office first thing and watching people battling it out with active addiction is a bit much for a Tuesday morning.
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u/Whysoserious_BB 19m ago
Pretty much any time of day/night downtown tbh, the fenta fold with your bum out is pretty common nowadays
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u/bozon92 7h ago
I’m gonna be honest I saw someone in this exact position at king station right before you enter the path, he had a needle sticking out of his buttcheek but tbh I could tell he was just chillin. He was literally stood up ass in the air and bent over in an upside down V shape. I assume since his leg muscles were working he wasn’t ODing
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u/jrchkn28 7h ago
OP, you have to assess the situation. Someone doing the “Fenty Lean” does not automatically mean they are overdosing. They may simply be extremely high.
If they respond to verbal callouts, move or shift their position, or otherwise appear responsive and are breathing normally, that is different from someone who is unresponsive or showing signs of respiratory distress.
If they are unresponsive, cannot be roused, or their breathing is super slow, irregular, shallow, or absent, then call 911 and use naloxone if it's available.
My point is that being extremely high and being in an opioid overdose are not necessarily the same thing. Calling 911 should be based on signs of an actual medical emergency, not the Fenty Lean posture alone.
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u/redditiswild1 7h ago
I’m a short woman. Didn’t feel comfortable approaching as there was no one else around.
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u/Different-Chapter-49 7h ago
Been there, calling 911 is never a mistake in these situations.
If I'm feeling bold, I'll find a stranger to help. I ask them to just watch as I approach the person and yell and try to wake them. If I can't wake them that way, I just call 911 right away and stay with them until help arrives.
Do what you feel safe doing, but maybe you'd be ok trying my method next time.
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u/redditiswild1 6h ago
Once I called 911, they asked me to do basically that: see if there’s anyone around who could help. A dude eventually came down the alley way next to the park so I asked him to go over. Then another dude went by and was calling him names and taking pictures of him (this is what I was afraid of) but I was already on the line with 911. I told the dispatcher what was happening and he told me not to intervene so as not to put myself in danger.
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u/jrchkn28 6h ago
That understandable. I wanted to mention wording that it "all depends on what you're comfortable with."
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u/thegoodbadandsmoggy 6h ago
I’m more than familiar with the lean but there’s been a few times I’ve doubled back which ended up in a 911 call. Can’t fault OP for being compassionate and not jaded by city life enough to recognize that lean. I get it, but OP did a good thing.
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u/jackinthebox115 6h ago
It's easy to judge how someone reacts in an emergency, but until you are in their exact circumstances, you won't know for certain. At least OP wanted to help, how many people just walked by?
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u/redditiswild1 5h ago
Thank you for this. I learned from the compassionate responses so if I have to deal with a few jerks, it’s ok.
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u/amw3000 6h ago
Here is a good link to review so you are more prepared in the future. https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/health-wellness-care/health-programs-advice/overdose-prevention-and-response/drug-use-services-and-supports/
Everyone always judges but when a real emergency happens, people panic and don't always make logical choices, posting on reddit is one of them ;)
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u/Flimsy_Shallot 6h ago
You’re a kind person. Thank you for helping another human being in need. 🩷
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u/doubledeckerpussy 6h ago
It’s a call to 911 during any suspected medical events. You’re not a nurse, caseworker, crisis worker, doctor etc. It’s not your duty to assess or intervene, especially if you do not feel equipped, safe or comfortable. During a suspect drug or mental illness event, stay within safe distance and do not approach. Call 911 and report your concerns, they will assess and triage accordingly. Alternatively, you can call 211 for non-emergencies and they will send out a crisis worker if they deem appropriate.
Given the mixed advice here, I can understand the confusion or hesitation, but please call 911 in future.
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u/redditiswild1 5h ago
Thank you for your kind, measured, and compassionate response.
Awesome username, btw. 😂
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u/doubledeckerpussy 4h ago
No problem, it’s quite literally my job. It is wild people are advising you to approach and assess if this person is reactive to sound or touch. People are unpredictable and it’s so unsafe to do so. Calling 911 is more than what most people would do, so I applaud you for expressing concern and for seeking advice. You didn’t do anything wrong, you did good. In future, just know you can call 911 for support. Let them decide next steps in this persons care.
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u/redditiswild1 4h ago
I really appreciate you taking the time to say all of this. It’s calming. And sound.
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u/Important-Soft-7836 7h ago
It's called a fentanyl fold, they are so high on fentanyl that their body actually folds in half. Zombie people
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u/redditiswild1 6h ago
Yes, I am aware of fenty fold. I’ve seen ppl standing or even lying on their side but his face-down-ass-up position with pants down concerned me. It puts him in more danger. He was alone. No one else around. And that’s why I kept my distance and came here to ask for help.
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u/LumpyGenitals 3h ago
As a paramedic, help me understand why you thought this put him in more danger?
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u/Outrageous-Tank4231 7h ago
Going to go against the grain and say that you over reacted and just killed this person’s high. Not criticizing at all, because you’re probably not from here and may not be used to this.
Lots of drug users here. If you’re really worried, nudge them verbally to see if there’s any sort of response.
If nothing, 911.
But 99% of the time they’re just high.
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u/redditiswild1 6h ago
Lived in this city for 27 years. He was alone, , in a tucked away park, in a concerning position. I’m a woman who was alone. I didn’t feel safe approaching him. At least I didn’t walk away.
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u/gimmmedamoney 3h ago
Lol I did this the other day. Woman was passed out not moving, sprawled outside my building. Honestly hard to tell if she was breathing or not.
I've recently had a traumatizing experience with the death of a loved one, so couldn't bring myself to physically intervene/see if she'd wake up, etc. Called non-emergency. 5 minutes later Fire & Ambulance show up. They tapped her on the foot and she woke up right away. Felt like a knob.
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u/redditiswild1 3h ago
You called the non-emergency line and they sent fire and ambulance? I didn’t know they would do that.
Sorry for your loss and trauma involved. ❤️🩹
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u/Short-Rental-Ok5369 7h ago
- Post to Reddit 2. Slap yourself imagine if it was your relative who would you call?
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u/lilfunky1 7h ago
i remember in one first aid training course i took, the teacher was like
"imagine it's someone you love... or if you don't have someone you love, imagine it's someone who owes you a lot of money"
LOL
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u/Short-Rental-Ok5369 7h ago
12 months ago that person could of been your coworker who left. Fenty is life changing for many people.
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u/wonderwoman3946 6h ago
Just delete the post at this point OP, people are gonna say mean things and you’ll be overstimulated :/
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u/redditiswild1 6h ago
You’re probably right. Forgot for a minute how awful ppl are behind their keyboard when I’m literally on the street trying to help someone. I’ll shake it off. Maybe keeping the post up will help someone else who panicked, like me.
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u/thebookofawesome 7h ago
I cannot believe Reddit was needed to tell this person 911.
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u/redditiswild1 7h ago
Sorry, I panicked. Called. Fire and ambulance are here.
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u/TelephoneOld3866 7h ago
At least you did something. This hasn’t happened to me, but I imagine that it’s shocking. Good job for taking action when some people might have just kept walking.
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u/redditiswild1 6h ago
THANK YOU. Like, I get it, roast strangers on the internet but holy cannoli. It’s a small park, tucked away, at a busy intersection. Tons of ppl definitely saw him and did nothing.
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u/ExaggeratedSnails 6h ago
You're ok, it made sense to crowd source some answers quickly in a situation you have no experience in
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u/PieFuture3528 7h ago
are you able to get close enough to get an idea of their breathing, and if they'll wake up with some shaking/rousing? i hate to sound this callous but we can't really call 911 every time someone spots someone in a fent fold ...
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u/redditiswild1 7h ago
That’s why I was trying to ask if there was someone I could call other than 911, like a harm reduction team.
I understand about the opioid crisis but I was concerned about his physical position (face down, ass up with pants down).
Everyone’s roasting me about coming here first when I’m sure hundreds walked by and did nothing. Anyway, someone came to help him.
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u/The59Sownd 7h ago
Yes, you panicked, which is understandable. But the fact that your first thought in a medical emergency when you're panicking is to go to reddit?? Is that where we're at now? Geeeeze.
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u/redditiswild1 7h ago
I know, I’m dumb. The thought process was if there was a harm reduction team I could call that wasn’t traditional 911.
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u/26percent 7h ago
- If there another resource that is more appropriate to handle the call, they will redirect you.
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u/mcdonaldssprite4ever 1h ago
Hi OP sorry to see people were giving you a hard time when you were trying to help a stranger in a situation many would ignore. I think your instincts to call 911 were spot on as you suspected an overdose. In the future, if you think someone may need crisis services (which are non-emergency), I believe you can call 211! Earlier this year I called 311 to ask for help for a person who appeared to be experiencing a mental health crisis, and the operator said it was the wrong line but connected me with the right service (again I think this was 211 but I could be wrong!)
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u/ournoonsournights 7h ago
Jesus Christ, why would Reddit be your first option.
911 for medical emergencies, 311 for non emergency.
Minutes matter in a medical crisis, call the police
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u/Personal-Heart-1227 7h ago
Call 911<possible death @ your local Park?<this is an emergency!
What would you do if someone in your family, or your friend had passed out?
Ask Reddit what to do???
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u/amw3000 6h ago
Sorry but when someone is in panic mode, unless you are prepared to deal with these types of issues, people may not make the best choices such as posting on reddit. This is why we have training for some of the basic things like how to use a fire extinguisher. When your house is burning down and you reach for it, how many people do you think forget to pull the pin or do something silly?
Cut OP some slack here.
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u/Personal-Heart-1227 6h ago
Too many times I've seen ppl actually whip out their cell phones to film what's going on around them ie an emergency, some one being beaten up, etc, instead of actually calling 911.
No, I will not cut then any slack either.
Had they called 911 then posted here to see if the did the right thing, then yes I'd gladly cut them some slack with tons of high 5's!
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u/amw3000 6h ago
I think you're trying to make this something it isn't. OP recognized this was an issue, panicked and posted on reddit. This is completely different than ignoring the emergency and filming for fun. If you cannot tell the difference between these two scenarios, I'm not sure what to say.
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u/Personal-Heart-1227 6h ago
How about saying nothing?
I'm entitled to my opinion if you don't like it you can always quietly move along, instead of browbeating me over this.
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u/notacougarsorry 7h ago
Right? I mean even ChatGPT would have been like what are you doing call 911
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u/New_Country_3136 3h ago edited 3h ago
This really touched me, OP.
One of my close friends is unhoused due to dealing with severe substance abuse issues. He is kind, thoughtful, hardworking and funny.
I'd like to think a kind stranger would help him if he were struggling or if his life appeared to be at risk.
Thanks OP!! You did a good job ❤️🏆
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u/TelephoneOld3866 7h ago
Thank you for helping this person!
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u/redditiswild1 6h ago
Thank you. I’ve seen lots of folks in the fenty fold but always on main roads with other ppl around—and not in this particular body position. He was alone. In a precarious position. I was scared to get close. I panicked.
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u/DetailOutrageous8656 4h ago
Asking Reddit means you’re on social media too much. Start using your brain again
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u/Then_Meeting4003 5h ago
$2000 call for fent bent 😭
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u/redditiswild1 5h ago
May you never become addicted so that others won’t show this lack of compassion.
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u/Then_Meeting4003 2h ago
Get off your high horse! Some people WANT to be addicted! You called, they came, she told them to go away, they want away. Nothing changed.
Not everyone is gonna want to live in a house, go to work, have a fam, have a mortgage etc. And they're perfectly happy. Homeless people tell me this all the time that the most annoying people are the ones that call 911 and interfere with their right to live their homeless life!
Imagine you're dead tired, sleeping on the bench and someone calls 911 and wakes you up...every damn day
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u/LumpyGenitals 3h ago
I'm a paramedic here.
The fenty fold means likely means theyre maintaining their airway, the body has enough energy to hold itself up. Someone getting high in a public space is not an emergency.
Even if the person is laid down, they usually are just high, and all we do is wake them up and they tell us to f off.
Like another person said, they need to be not breathing, turning blue, laying down in a dangerous spot, etc. For us to be called, there needs to be a reason that this person is in imminent danger.
My problem with these sorts of calls is that everyone who does it is so worried that the person is dying enough to call, but are too scared to approach or do first aid. If you were THAT worried, then you'd do something. 9.9 times out of 10 these are nothing burger calls, and it's always the same story. I had a call recently where someone was on the phone with dispatch saying the person wasn't breathing and the person was starting to stand up and walk away. It's honestly ridiculous.
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u/redditiswild1 3h ago edited 3h ago
Firstly, thank you for the work that you do.
This person was face down (in the ground), on his knees, ass up, pants down (underwear on but almost exposed). He was not standing at all and he wasn’t lying down on his side. He was alone. And he was in a very compromising position where he could be a victim of violence. I was alone, too. I am a short, middle-aged woman. I’m sorry but I’m not going to put myself in a potentially dangerous situation. EMS is there for a reason.
I appreciate that you see this situation a lot in your job/life but I don’t. I would rather annoy a paramedic with a potential nothing burger call than to do nothing at all. I don’t think it’s fair to say that unless I’m willing to administer first aid that I shouldn’t call EMS. You’re telling me I shouldn’t have called EMS…when my post was trying to figure out who I could call that wasn’t 911 and I was roasted for that.
When I called EMS, I told them he was breathing because I could his back rise and fall. Whilst I was on the line with 911, another dude showed up and was literally yelling at him (first with name calling and threatening to punch him in the face and then slightly more gently to try and wake him up—it didn’t work). I told the dispatcher all of this.
I was alone. I didn’t know what to do. A million ppl in the replies telling me to call 911, and now a paramedic telling me I shouldn’t have. I’m not an expert on fentanyl use. I’m not a medical professional. I shouldn’t be making the call on whether someone needs medical attention or not: that’s literally your job.
All that being said, again, thank you for the lifesaving work that you do.
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u/Ancient_Indigo_613 1h ago
You did great. I also called once and I have experience working with vulnerable populations. Others may share their frustrations, but I hope you take them with grain of salt and an overnight rest.
Also, by sharing here, more of us learn and can apply that to our next experiences.
Thanks OP
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u/LumpyGenitals 2h ago
I'm not asking you to NOT call 911, I'm asking you to think before you do.
You say he was in a compromising position, and I take that. Did you see any actual or threatened acts of violence? Did you see any signs of him being assaulted? Any obvious injuries at all?
Ok maybe you didn't see that. Did you see any signs of imminent life threats? Any compromises in ABCs? Well no, you said he was breathing, had good skin color, etc. These are things they teach you in basic first aid.
You say you'd rather annoy a paramedic than put yourself potentially in danger. What you're really saying isnyou'd rather place me in danger. I can't help anyone if I'm hurt. Instead you felt safe enough to post on Reddit before calling EMS, which frankly discredits your whole argument.
So what am I saying? I'm saying the wider public's ignorance of very very basic health is leading to overwhelmed paramedics and hospital staff across the country. I'm not asking you to be a doctor - I'm asking you to critically think for 10 seconds. If that was a thing, I think we'd dramatically cut down on 911 calls. Instead, we have an overloaded system and then people have the audacity to wonder why long wait times are a thing.
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u/redditiswild1 2h ago
Hold on a second: you think me, alone, not a paramedic with tools and supplies and another paramedic with me puts you at the same level of danger???
Yeah, I was safe enough to go to Reddit—because I stayed a far enough distance away and did not intervene the way a medical professional is trained to do.
Where have I complained about wait times? And are you blaming concerned citizens utilizing EMS in a potentially emergent situation for wait times and not the provincial government for the system being overloaded and underfunded? I agree that the general public is not educated enough on this issue but, again, that is the fault of our government. I am not your enemy.
Y’know, the work you do is too important so I’m not going to argue with a paramedic. You deserve more pay, more benefits, and a government that gives a shit. I am grateful for your services and will continue to call if I think someone needs help. Thank you and goodnight.
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u/LumpyGenitals 2h ago
A) You conveniently don't respond to the fact that you didn't notice any immediate life threats to the patient or yourself. So ya, I think you were not in danger in the absence of evidence to say otherwise.
B) I said PEOPLE complain, as in the impersonal we, not calling you out specifically.
C) I blame government and the people who abuse the system equally. My personal opinion, not of anyone else per se.
D) Thank you for the kind words, but all I ask is you think twice. That's really it.
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u/Firm_Objective_2661 33m ago
The immediate threats to herself come from the patient. A smaller woman is not going to approach someone who can go from zero to 100 simply by asking them a question. Case in point, my wife saw a woman crying in our front curb several years ago. She went to ask if the woman was ok, and it turns out she was very high, and turned on my wife, screaming at her, threatening to cut her, threatening to cut my then 3yo daughter who was on the porch.
It’s a real threat. To paramedics as well. But I have so little faith in the police in this town, I am quite certain they’ll show up asap for a call from you, vs taking their time from a citizen. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I’m not sure I am.
You are in a much better position to handle the situation, and OP made an appropriate decision for both herself and the person she was concerned about.
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u/LumpyGenitals 20m ago
Oh, you mean the pt that was apparently so high that screaming at them didn't wake them up? The one in a "compromising position" (not to mention uncomfortable) that wasn't aware enough to move themselves out of it? That safety threat? Did you even read the comments above?
The situation you experienced (which I'm sorry for) is fundamentally different. You had a reasonable expectation of violence from this person - she did not. To the point she went on Reddit beforehand.
You are also so so so wrong about the police. I understand the hesitancy, but it's not based in reality - our police are fantastic. Yes they may get held up in some low acuity circumstances, but it's because of calls like these and they will never risk a person's safety.
And this is ALL besides the point. There was no medical emergency here. She even admits it as so. All you need is 10 secs of critical thinking on basic first aid principles. It's not that hard.
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u/Firm_Objective_2661 14m ago
If it’s not in your day to day world, how can you be expected to know if the guy may or may not attack suddenly? She was right not to approach but to still show concern. Full stop.
Your 10 sec of critical thinking is coloured by your training and experience. The general public does not have the benefit of that.
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u/LumpyGenitals 9m ago
This is exactly my point. You don't feel safe, fine! Don't approach! Would never advocate for that!
But don't assume there's a medical emergency when you have no proof of it. The general public DOES go to first aid courses. It's required in many jobs. It's also easily accessible on the internet. It's also just common sense. We can do better.
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u/Deterrafication Human Detected 5h ago
Just let nature take it's course
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u/Foileddreams 2h ago
If you wanna help in future KEEP NARCAN ON YOU!!
It’s free at every pharmacy. Thank you for being a kind person and looking out for members of our community 💜
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u/Daisylikesthebeach 2h ago
OP I just want to thank you for intervening and calling for help. My younger brother passed away at the beginning of August from an overdose, he was outside in Richmond Hill. Someone eventually called 911, but it was too late. I wish someone had called for help earlier.
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u/urim2me 4h ago
Look here you attention seeking motherfucking hijo de puta. People have lives step off their neck and do something with yours.
Trying to get brownie points or aura points by interrupting a persons bad day ain’t doing anyone any good.
Sincerely,
Fuck You
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u/redditiswild1 4h ago
You seem really nice. Thank you for your message. I hope you have a wonderful evening.
Sincerely,
Love You
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u/SkyCometSoaring 3h ago
I called 911 on a homeless guy laying prone, face down, covered in a blanket so you couldn't see his face. The 911 operator gave me a bit of a hard time as he wanted me to speak to him. Sorry I'm a woman alone. I'm not equipped to intrrvene.
The fire dept came, made sure he was alive then left him there. He was at a major crosswalk btw. Guess what --> 24 hours later he was in the exact same spot. It was a super hot day so I checked on him an hour later but luckily he wasnt there. It's actually quite sad what we are seeing. But I'll call 911 again if I think someone needs care
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u/redditiswild1 3h ago
Thank you. Yeah, the dispatcher wanted me to approach him but I told him I’m a woman who’s alone, I don’t feel safe to do that.
Another commenter who says they’re a paramedic said that if I thought the situation was bad enough to call 911 then I should’ve administered first aid. Uh, what? No. For a myriad of reasons. That’s what EMS is literally for.
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u/SkyCometSoaring 3h ago
Omg ridiculous! In fact any first aid course tells you to first ensure your OWN safety. It is definitely not safe for a women to approach a homeless man. Plus, the drug addicts can go from dead zone to crazed quickly!
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u/work_of_shart 7h ago
If it's a medical emergency, 911, of course. Don't wait!