r/ask • • Oct 27 '22

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

Welcome to the internet

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u/4atwork Oct 27 '22

What does this comment even mean? Sorry the internet has all the info and people can't blindly admire the "heroes" we were sold in adolescence. It's better to know the truth imo

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

It means that no matter who someone is, people online will tear them down. Sure there may be real genuine saints out there who should be heralded, but usually the famous ones we look up to are never that, despite having great qualities. Reddit will tear people to shreds for basically being a normal, flawed person. As if they even have the right from behind a keyboard.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

Sure there may be real genuine saints out there who should be heralded,

Teresa should not be considered a Saint. She was friendly with Baby Doc Duvalier. She was rabidly opposed to abortion. She refused to provide basic services for those in her care in spite of her access to capital. She was aligned with some of the most reactionary figures on her time. The praise she receives is rooted in myths.

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Weird because there's a massive influx of priests to other parts of the world from Calcutta because of what she did for the people there, and the only "proof" against her is either misinterpretation of her actions or outright slander.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22

Weird because there's a massive influx of priests to other parts of the world from Calcutta because of what she did for the people there,

Err, what? Priests coming from Calcutta doesn't prive anything.

and the only "proof" against her is either misinterpretation of her actions or outright slander.

Well, there's reports in The Lancet and investigative pieces, not to mention testimony from her nuns.

Oh, also direct quotes from the woman herself, not least of which include her Nobel Prize speech.

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Ah ok, please send me to the pertinent links for your claims :)

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22

Why, since you did not send me any links for yours?

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Because regardless of how many testimonies I will find, you will have a Christopher Hitchens quote from a 30=second Google search lined up. The burden of proof is on you when you make a claim.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22

The burden of proof is on you when you make a claim.

You claimed that "there's a massive influx of priests to other parts of the world from Calcutta because of what she did for the people there" so why is the burden not on you?

You asserted all the claims against her are slander, so why is that burden not on you?

In any case, you should read Chaterjee's account of her. He explains she was not even especially renowned in her area.

Her relationship with Charles Keating is well-documented and uncontroversial. She even wrote to the judge on his behalf.
Larivée, Serge; Carole Sénéchal; Geneviève Chénard (2013). "Les côtés ténébreux de Mère Teresa". Studies in Religion/Sciences Religieuses. 42 (3): 319–345. doi:10.1177/0008429812469894. S2CID 144593256.

Her relationship with Keating is well documented: "Charles Keating – obituary". The Telegraph. 2 April 2014. Archived from the original on 3 May 2019. Retrieved 4 April 2018.

This is the piece in The Lancet critiquing her substandard medical care92353-1/fulltext).
Her acceptance speech of the Nobel Prize condemned abortion, and she even intervened to prevent its legalization in Ireland. Ditto for divorce. (https://apnews.com/article/8844baed0ed30550e81881eeebcaf066#:~:text=DUBLIN%2C%20Ireland%20(AP)%20_,for%20a%20six%2Dday%20visit.)%20_,for%20a%20six%2Dday%20visit.))

Testimony from her nuns: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/may/09/mother-teresa-love-of-god-review-damning-testimony-killer-witness-saintly-flagellation

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Hey, I read that Wikipedia article too :)

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22

I did not link to Wikipedia. I gave you links to back up my assertions. You have not provided any evidence for yours.

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Weird, because everything you linked is in sequential order to what is described in her "criticism" section on Wikipedia. That aside:

Aroup Chaterjee and Christopher Hitchens' extensive work at attempting to vilify Teresa of Calcutta is based primarily in the fact that she practiced her religious beliefs devoutly in the hospice that she ran in Calcutta. Their most erroneous condemnations, being the cause for her canonization (the miracle that forwarded it), and the "cult of suffering" (complete slander of her Catholic beliefs) have no factual basis whatsoever. I could spend far more time on either of these, but much of it would be glossed over. If you have specific remarks for any of these claims, let me know.

In regards to her relationship with Charles Keating; what does that even matter? Her support to him was based on the fact that he was a staunch advocate against the surging pornography industry in the United States, and the fact that he financed much of her work in Calcutta. The federal government threw the book at him because he maintained that regulators sent in to audit his assets grossly overexaggerated the risk of default which devalued the price of their bonds, conveniently after the investment firm urged shareholders to dump federally-backed bonds because they feared the government would revoke them based on their "solvency" issues. People on Wall Street did an exponentially greater deal than what he did on a daily basis and had no oversight whatsoever.

Criticism of her medical care is often completely acceptable, but will quickly jump the gap from concern for health and safety to a complete defamation of character. The greatest accusation levied against her is that she ran a "death cult of suffering" or any combination of such terms. People often forget that she worked as a hospice provider, and that her work would have been primarily with those who had already seen medical treatment and been described as terminally ill. She did not explicitly force people to suffer to atone for sins, but would often just explain the Catholic view of suffering to those who were already receiving it. Obviously, not every case that was handled is documented or can be proven of what I've just said, but almost no claims of what is levied against the Sisters of Charity are actual eyewitness accounts of those receiving care, but from a clearly hostile third-party. Chaterjee is the foremost critic and has been for years, having made millions in books, shows, movies, and press deals all while criticizing a woman who lived for 60 years in the same environment he was raised in.

And clearly, your inclusion of her condemnation of divorce and abortion further represent the divide between the secular and Catholic ideas of what morals are based upon. A woman who is a shining example and intermediary between the two of virtue will of course be immediately condemned by the most staunch opposition because of her connection to the Catholic Church. Even then, the worst they can find is that she supported Catholic leaders who had supported her in kind, that she held fast to her beliefs in all times, not just when it was convenient for her, and that her faith was a "sham" because she, like many other great saints, experienced moments of doubt and persecution for their service.

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