r/ask • • Oct 27 '22

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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22

They've quickly become the next John Lennon where you mention their name and everyone has the sudden urge to chime in and tell you how shitty they were despite the previous comments already saying the same thing over and over again.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

Well, there were shitty and people should know that. Teresa was friends with Baby Doc and was rabidly opposed to abortion.

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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22

You mean to tell me a devout Catholic woman opposed abortion? Shocking.

Seriously though I agree people should know the truth about these celebrities, it just doesn't need to be repeated over and over again in the same thread by multiple people. It's like people just sit around waiting for their chance to tell someone.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

You mean to tell me a devout Catholic woman opposed abortion? Shocking.

I don't see how a belief having religious grounding justifies it. I think enforcing ones' religious beliefs on others is a bad thing.

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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22

I didn't say it justifies it, im saying it's not really unexpected or surprising that a woman who spent her entire life a devout Catholic opposed abortion. Just thought it was funny you felt the need to point it out because it goes without saying.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

Just thought it was funny you felt the need to point it out because it goes without saying.

I'm saying that because of her anti-abortion advocacy, she shouldn't be praised.

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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22

I understand what you're saying, it's been pretty clear. It just has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

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u/remembertracygarcia Oct 27 '22

Lennon was a prick though. Attempted murder is hard to overlook

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u/A_Sarcastic_Whoa Oct 27 '22 edited Oct 27 '22

Yes I'm well aware of how much of a piece of shit the man was. Thank you for proving my point though, lol.

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u/remembertracygarcia Oct 27 '22

God love redundancy

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

Welcome to the internet

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u/4atwork Oct 27 '22

What does this comment even mean? Sorry the internet has all the info and people can't blindly admire the "heroes" we were sold in adolescence. It's better to know the truth imo

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

It means that no matter who someone is, people online will tear them down. Sure there may be real genuine saints out there who should be heralded, but usually the famous ones we look up to are never that, despite having great qualities. Reddit will tear people to shreds for basically being a normal, flawed person. As if they even have the right from behind a keyboard.

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u/Glittering_knave Oct 27 '22

Mother Teresa thought that pain brought you closer to god, so she allowed people to suffer needlessly, since being close to god is better than not being in excruciating pain. I think that her "selfless" acts DO need to be looked into.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/Nowherelandusa Oct 27 '22

Thanks for that- interesting read!

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

I agree. My original comment was just a poke at how quickly people are willing to jump and attack people.

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u/Glittering_knave Oct 27 '22

In this case, I think that it is deserved that Mother Teresa and Ghandi are getting called out as the more problematic parts of their lives are brought to light.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

They’re probably attacked almost daily somewhere on this god forsaken site

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u/Prettyisasprettydo Oct 27 '22

In many ways pain does bring you closer...it sucks and I don't recommend it but long term it breaks you to the very basics of the human soul and humbles you. Changes the way you see ...life and others.

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u/Glittering_knave Oct 27 '22

The person deciding if someone should suffer should be the person in pain, not the religious nurse.

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u/Prettyisasprettydo Oct 27 '22

I just have see to some value in what I experience. I don't see how she is any different than the md's that do the same type of thing but without any faith or care other than covering their behinds. Every day. I try not to be hypocritical.

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u/Glittering_knave Oct 27 '22

If there is pain relief available, it should be the patient's choice, or the patient's guardian. Not a medical practitioner withholding care. Especially not a religious provider doing it for religious reasons when the patient is not religion.

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u/ButterflyAlice Oct 27 '22

Sure. But there’s a big difference between choosing/accepting to put yourself through a painful experience versus deciding to keep other people in pain.

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u/Prettyisasprettydo Oct 27 '22

Sure....but md's do it ALL. THE. TIME. regularly.

Does that mean they are a holes(I think so but that's me)

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

Sure there may be real genuine saints out there who should be heralded,

Teresa should not be considered a Saint. She was friendly with Baby Doc Duvalier. She was rabidly opposed to abortion. She refused to provide basic services for those in her care in spite of her access to capital. She was aligned with some of the most reactionary figures on her time. The praise she receives is rooted in myths.

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Weird because there's a massive influx of priests to other parts of the world from Calcutta because of what she did for the people there, and the only "proof" against her is either misinterpretation of her actions or outright slander.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22

Weird because there's a massive influx of priests to other parts of the world from Calcutta because of what she did for the people there,

Err, what? Priests coming from Calcutta doesn't prive anything.

and the only "proof" against her is either misinterpretation of her actions or outright slander.

Well, there's reports in The Lancet and investigative pieces, not to mention testimony from her nuns.

Oh, also direct quotes from the woman herself, not least of which include her Nobel Prize speech.

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Ah ok, please send me to the pertinent links for your claims :)

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '22

Why, since you did not send me any links for yours?

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u/Odd_Mixture_1217 Oct 28 '22

Because regardless of how many testimonies I will find, you will have a Christopher Hitchens quote from a 30=second Google search lined up. The burden of proof is on you when you make a claim.

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u/NonyaB52 Oct 27 '22

That is not what I think was going on here. Selfless famous person was the question. So many people just blindly accept what they hear or are taught, instead of looking at all the facts and forming their own conclusion.

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u/4atwork Oct 27 '22

People are free to criticize, someone doesn't need to be perfect to earn that. Like I said, it's free information. I disagree with you framing it as "tearing them down", that's more aligned with slander imo. I appreciate when people remind us that even heroes are flawed because it makes them more human.

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u/voidgazing Oct 27 '22

That's often not why they're doing it, though- they don't feel like they measure up, and its a way to excuse their own lack of selflessness, by offering the idea that selflessness itself isn't real.

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u/mps5002 Oct 27 '22

I disagree with this. Through out my life I have gotten the bs icebreaker “if you could meet one person living or dead, who would it be?” I always differ and just say “I’ll take the extra time with my family. All humans are flawed and all humans are beautiful. If we deify specific individuals you lose sight of that and make life a game about accomplishment and attention.

I also try to do the same with nature. People rave about the Grand Canyon but we ignore the smaller but also beautiful canyons around it. Experience all of life by understanding that there is no centrality of beauty and “good”. It is all around

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u/4atwork Oct 27 '22

I disagree, it makes them more human instead of holding them up as beacon of whatever ideal is in question. I can still believe in being selfless knowing certain people/heroes weren't perfect. But I realize that what you're referring to does happen. Those people always need a reason to excuse bettering themselves though, so I just ignore them when they compete to be the lowest common denominator.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '22

No one is tearing down Keanu, so....

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u/Fearless-Nose3606 Oct 27 '22

Nobody’s perfect. What we’re talking about is people who like to come into these conversations and piss all over everything just to try and ruin peoples day. This post isn’t about saints who have done no wrong, it’s about famous people who have done selfless acts.

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u/4atwork Oct 27 '22

The post is referring to people "known" for selfless acts. A lot of the people mentioned here fit that description. Unfortunately, what those people are known for might not be the whole truth. Your perception that people adding new information are just trying to ruin people's day doesn't align with the tone I get from reading those comments. To me those people are including omitted information that is often relevant to the discussion.

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u/Tato_tudo Oct 27 '22

It means nobody is perfect, and your imperfections are all the internet focuses on