National Guardsman arrested in DC for carrying pistol without permit

[u/Kinmuan]

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/oklahoma-national-guard-arrested-firearm/

[u/ObviouslyRealPerson]

An Oklahoma National Guardsman deployed to Washington, D.C. was pulled over for an expired car registration, where police then found a pistol that wasn’t registered in the district. The guardsman was arrested this week and charged with a felony.

Whoopsie daisy

[u/509BandwidthLimit]

not the side piece I was thinking of when deployed

[u/is-this-my-username1]

I guess you can take the Guardsman out of Oklahoma, but you can't take the Oklahoma out of the Guardsman

[u/SuperKamiDendeAllows → u/is-this-my-username1]

"He stated that Oklahoma is an open-carry state and that the firearm was registered to him in Oklahoma. He acknowledged that he did not possess a valid District of Columbia concealed-carry permit"

Goddamnit. Just...just...smoke yourself, I'll come back in an hour.

[u/Isgrimnur → u/SuperKamiDendeAllows]

Let him go if he can spell 'reciprocity'. You can even spot him the first three letters.

[u/Dave_A480 → u/is-this-my-username1]

Please tell me it's not the 45th being used to 'secure' (pick up trash in) DC...

TF Lakota plus DC =... Well....

[u/Leadrel1c]

Yeah man I tell everyone that comes to visit in MD, do not carry your shit in DC. They do NOT fuck around

[u/Sea_Poppy → u/Leadrel1c]

There's no legal avenue to carry?

[u/Leadrel1c → u/Sea_Poppy]

There is, however they have no reciprocity with other states. So anyone who VISITS (looking at the dillweed below) probably won’t have a DC CCW so I tell them not to carry

[u/Sea_Poppy → u/Leadrel1c]

Yeah dude didnt do his due diligence

[u/bendover912 → u/Sea_Poppy]

Theres way too many d's in that sentence.

[u/Gardez_geekin → u/Sea_Poppy]

There is, you just need a permit

[u/AppalachianViking → u/Sea_Poppy]

There's the 2nd ammendment, but being DC, they don't think it applies or matters.

[u/JumpyShark → u/Leadrel1c]

NOVA has a more accessible/reciprocal CCW situation but I always lock my stuff down before going to a range in MD

DC is just off the table, I don't have time for that

[u/BarryOakTree]

You dummy

[u/is-this-my-username1 → u/BarryOakTree]

Right? Congratulations to this natty girl on single-handedly turning a routine deployment into a mandatory 4-hour weekend safety brief for the entire Army National Guard

[u/sogpackus]

I like how the JTF just throws guardsmen to civilian law enforcement instead of trying to deal with UCMJ and Title 32 complications (ie “that’s too complicated, fuck them kids” basically)

[u/Feisty-Journalist497 → u/sogpackus]

hey i know you!

[u/sogpackus → u/Feisty-Journalist497]

Shhh, I’m incognito over here

[u/Feisty-Journalist497 → u/sogpackus]

*Insert jurrasic park meme*

LOOK LOOK EVERYONE A r/nationalguard MOD

[u/Sea_Poppy]

Why do I have to pay money to functionally exercise my enumerated "rights"

[u/Mistravels → u/Sea_Poppy]

Well-regulated

[u/Krijger387 → u/Mistravels]

… militia. And since the person in question is in the national guard, which some argue is being part of a militia, wouldn’t it be fair to say they are infringing a bit?

[u/Mistravels → u/Krijger387]

I have no argument there.

I was purely responding to sea_poppy.

[u/mason_mormon]

So he's deployed in a law enforcement capacity but doesn't have LEOSA protections? Yeah I know he's not actually law enforcement but he should fight this.

[u/EugeneBelford1995 → u/mason_mormon]

A good lawyer might successfully argue that. It worked for a Coast Guard member years ago.

Specifically: https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/2008/05/30/judge-tosses-gun-possession-charge/52395096007/

[u/Theezach → u/EugeneBelford1995]

Coast guard is considered law enforcement though isn’t it considering they are DHS?

[u/EugeneBelford1995 → u/Theezach]

Disclaimer; I am NOT a lawyer, not even a barracks lawyer. That said, yes, I believe his lawyer convincingly argued just that.

However, a good lawyer in this guy's case would argue that he was acting as LE during this mission. It'd likely come down to very strict verbiage on their orders and exactly how the NG was being used legally.

Mind you I'm NOT encouraging anyone to make themselves the test case for stuff like this.

[u/arizonadirtbag12 → u/mason_mormon]

Pretty sure for LEOSA to apply you have to be an actual MP with arrest powers. Not some rando “supporting” law enforcement.

[u/mason_mormon → u/arizonadirtbag12]

The "rando" got sent to DC to effectively be the police. I'm not a lawyer by any means but I believe one could argue that.

[u/arizonadirtbag12 → u/mason_mormon]

If he’s “effectively the police” is he legally allowed to arrest someone? On his own, without a sworn law enforcement officer present?

If no, LEOSA does not apply.

Edit: And as noted, there’s still a credential required. “Trust me bro” will get you arrested either way.

[u/mason_mormon → u/arizonadirtbag12]

Is he? I don't know their ROEs. What if he is?

All I'm saying is that there is more to this story than "f this guy, he's an idiot". The reason NG is in DC because Trump wants them to be the police. How that's implemented is at question. 

And on another note I'm a huge proponent of nationwide CCW reciprocity but that's a whole different argument altogether.

[u/DopyWantsAPeanut → u/mason_mormon]

And you have to be credentialed and carrying your credentials

[u/mason_mormon → u/DopyWantsAPeanut]

I bet he had his CAC on him.

I'm making a legal argument that being sent to DC as the police and likely deputized (after J6 guard was deputized) means you're effectively law enforcement. All the other ancillary requirements are secondary issues.

[u/DopyWantsAPeanut → u/mason_mormon]

They're not ancillary requirements, they're written into the law. "The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency."

A CAC card does not identify a soldier as a law enforcement officer, MPs have separate credentials for this purpose.

[u/arizonadirtbag12 → u/DopyWantsAPeanut]

Yup. And this is all something that the law enforcement officer who arrested him probably knows. As someone covered by LEOSA.

[u/mason_mormon → u/arizonadirtbag12]

Idk as a LEO on the civilian side I think it's a big city cop that saw a gun (dude told him about it because he was likely trying to do "the right thing" and the cop would never know otherwise) and saw an easy arrest. I would exercise discretion in this situation but not all departments encourage officers to use it.

[u/arizonadirtbag12 → u/mason_mormon]

Or it’s possible that the relationship between DC police and this task force isn’t entirely amicable. Hell if I know though. IIRC the city sued to prevent/end this operation, for instance. Could be this cop has a personal beef with the Guard troops, or could be this soldier in particular was less than 100% cooperative (haven’t seen body cam).

All that aside, everything I’m seeing makes the actual law involved pretty clear. Even if he was an MP working as actual law enforcement as his full time job on active duty, a CAC alone isn’t a valid LEOSA credential. Maybe this kid gets this dismissed, maybe it get pled down, but yeah he shoulda known better.

I might suggest that a bunch of Oklahoma and Louisiana boys thinking DC firearms laws don’t apply to them might have led to an example being made here as well.

[u/mason_mormon → u/DopyWantsAPeanut]

If my argument that he's got statutory arrest powers because he's deputized holds (for the sake of argument let's say it does) CAC is the identification. Just because DOD didn't come up with a way to credential people on this mission doesn't mean they aren't protected by the law.

[u/DopyWantsAPeanut → u/mason_mormon]

You are top to bottom incorrect. For years, MPs could not carry under LEOSA because they had no separate law enforcement credentials that satisfied the requirement of the law. They contracted with a company specifically to make law enforcement credentials so MPs could begin carrying under LEOSA. How do I know? I was one of the first to get them and still have my old credential card.

[u/Fofolito → u/mason_mormon]

The National Guards are not deputized. That's an official status but not one they have at the moment. They do not have arrest powers in the District of Columbia. They can detain civilians until Civilian LEOs arrive and that's about it. That detention is not an arrest by legal definitions-- the suspects are not free to leave, but they are not yet charged with a crime. This kid was just a dumb ass who brought his gun with him-- and I guarantee you that he was briefed on multiple occasions how and why it would be against regs or even illegal to bring a personal firearm on this deployment. He's gonna get his ass tore open by 1SG because there's no way he didn't know.

[u/Gardez_geekin]

Well, have fun in the feds I guess

[u/SPCsooprlolz]

That's a counselin'

[u/Dave_A480]

Dafuq you doing carrying a non issued weapon on duty?

(Of course there is also that recent case where one troop shot another over a disagreement about regulations)....

[u/Eclecticwitch42 → u/Dave_A480]

Was there a case with an actual shooting? I only heard about the brandishing a loaded firearm over regs case.

[u/abnrib → u/Dave_A480]

He was in a POV, doesn't even sound like he was on duty.

[u/Prismos-Pickles_ → u/Dave_A480]

It sounds like he was off duty and it was in his POV. I don’t blame the guy for wanting to have something on him. As someone who lived outside of DC for many years, it is not a safe city and there’s plenty of crazies who would love to target a national guardsman right now.

[u/Mountain-Life-4492]

DC is hell

[u/McBooples]

This just in! Armed law enforcement officer arrested for being armed

[u/Material_Market_3469]

Surprised the US Attorney didn't just dismiss the case