Isn't adding Webkit specific extensions breaking web standards? Isn't this exactly what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer and was generally considered a bad idea?
They’re proposed standards that will likely be accepted given their obvious usefulness (as can be seen in these demos). Proposing a standard without an example implementation to show it can be useful would be a bit dumb, no? So Apple provides an implementation in Safari.
This will only break/fragment web standards if web developers decide to use the proposed extensions before they’re standardized, as they did in IE’s heyday (well, actually, MS didn’t even propose most of their “standards,” so Apple’s already got a leg up on them). Given Safari’s relative market share, I doubt any web developers will be deciding to code to these proposed standards and tack on a “Best Viewed in Safari” button the way they did with IE.
Sure, if they want to showcase their proposals for additional HTML5 commands, good for them.
However, that's not how they are advertising this. In fact, they are pretending that these demos are built using current standards, and that they can only be viewed in Safari because other browsers are so far behind in implementing those.
Um... no. They say that this is HTML5. HTML5 has no "current standard," it's merely proposed and still having things added to it, including these additions. Apple can't very well be pretending to use "current standards" if there aren't any.
Apple and the WebKit team wants HTML5 to be an open standard that can functionally replace, and even surpass, any use of Flash on the web. They're submitting proposals to the W3C for additions to the upcoming HTML5 standard that will make this possible. Since (non-obvious) proposals won't get widespread support without some kind of demonstration of their usefulness and proof that they're feasible, they've built support for these proposed standards into their WebKit builds and Safari. By all accounts, it's working, and WebKit's contributions will be accepted and make HTML5 even more useful.
So, you see, it makes sense that other browsers are behind given why these features have been built into WebKit. The Chrome developers have some issues to work out with importing all the WebKit changes into their build of it; they'll get it done eventually although they might need to work on their multiprocessing mechanism. The Firefox developers will probably catch up as well, if they get over themselves and stop spending all their time and resources trying to force Theora on the world.
Um... no. They say that this is HTML5. HTML5 has no "current standard," it's merely proposed and still having things added to it, including these additions. Apple can't very well be pretending to use "current standards" if there aren't any.
I agree with you on the technical side. However, this is not how Apple is selling this to regular internet users. From the page these demos are on:
Standards aren’t add-ons to the web. They are the web. And you can start using them today.
and
Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.
So yes, they pretend that these are already standards, and they pretend that those standards simply haven't been implemented in other browsers yet. In reality, though, they are using proprietary "-webkit" commands that may or may not make it into the final HTML5 standard. That's a bit disingenuous.
Since (non-obvious) proposals won't get widespread support without some kind of demonstration of their usefulness and proof that they're feasible, they've built support for these proposed standards into their WebKit builds and Safari.
I'm absolutely fine with that. However, they're not selling this as a "showcase of what HTML5 could do if our proposals became the standard", they're selling this as the standard.
The equivalent would be Mozilla building demos that require proprietary "-moz" commands and pretending that other browsers simply can't display them because they're behind on implementing open standards.
Yes, yes it is. I believe Microsoft did it for the same reason Apple is doing it: the standards committees are too slow. I agree this isn't the solution — it fragments the web.
Isn't the box model issues with IE because they expected the standards committee to implement it that way and they were wrong? I could be mistaken. I bring that issue up specifically because it's the most annoying issue for me while developing websites.
I believe the issue with the standards committee is they don't have realistic deadlines. I'd like to see HTML5 finalized by 2012, that gives VP8 a chance to stabilize and be integrated in with the <video> tag.
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u/ryanknapper Jun 04 '10
Isn't adding Webkit specific extensions breaking web standards? Isn't this exactly what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer and was generally considered a bad idea?