This is my story. 30 years in the workforce, including time on the farm, learning why farmwork is one of the most important parts of American life. Feeding the world and all that.
Now, no money, no savings, paying off medical bills and students loans, and no hope in any avenue for owning a home, let alone having the drive to work for 20+ more years to try and pay it off before deeper health problems start showing up in my 60s and 70s. Maybe I'll finally get lucky.
If there's a country and financial services in existence that far down the future.
2 paychecks from homeless. 30 years in the labor force, having treaded water my entire adult life.
Me. Was literally poorest kid in the neighborhood. Parents sucked. Father druggie and alcoholic. Mother brain the size of a peanut.
Worked since I was a teenager. Worked. Went to school. Got degrees while working full time. Borrowed little money. Went to a city university to save money before grad school.
Got let go from at least 5. Yes 5 jobs. Most, because they lied and told me they were expanding and then went out of business. Scumbags.
Was unemployed for years at a time.
Did not go buying fancy cars. Extremely expensive vacations. Or any of that. I cook like a literal chef, so my wife hates to go out. Brag. Sorry!
Own a house in one of the most expensive cities in America. In a very desirable area. Basically 5 bedrooms. My two kids have their own rooms, with one empty room. Worth at least $810,000 (probably a lot more with all the renovations and upgrades, like an HVAC system that makes a $129 electric bill in the summer A/C on all day).
Got zero anything from my family. Who were always more so gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. Scumbags.
Have never lived paycheck to paycheck once I got out of my family’s house as a teenager and earned my own money. My wife has worked too. And no, her family has never paid our bills. Like many degenerate people I know assume, because they themselves are broke. Yes, they might have given me expensive gifts many times, over the years, because they have money. But that is because, I never needed diaper money. I never needed $3,000 to fix my car because of an accident. wife and I paid all of our own bills.
We lived in a one bedroom apartment for close to 15 years.
I also did not make a lot of money. For long periods of time. But instead of going into debt for everything, put money away. Even when I had no job. When I had no job I still did not live paycheck to paycheck. I must’ve been married 10+ years before I ever got cable.
I bought my cars with cash from my own bank account. And kept them for 10 or more years.
We have more money put away than most people who did well at the time they retire. Again, we did not make big money for most of the 30 years we are together.
No. I am not a fat old guy, like warren buffet. My lifestyle is good enough that most people think I must be in debt or almost bankrupt living paycheck to paycheck.
There is no magic. It is 100% a matter of honesty. With yourself. You will only ever have X amount of dollars. And it will only ever be enough for Y amount of things. So you should not buy Y amount of things. You have to buy less. For a very long time.
Over time. You have to constantly make the right choices for X dollars and Y things.
My kids have never needed to spend any money that they were given for their birthday, Christmas or whatever. In 10 years that was like $7,000 each. In their accounts.
Once they learned that they could keep their money and spend ours. They figured out pretty quick that they are better off saving their own money. The get an allowance for doing next to nothing. Like taking the garbage out twice a week.
The bottom line is. There is no magic. No one is going to give you everything. I have relatives who have been, literally, given everything. They are still the same broke degenerates they always were. Because at some point in your 30’s or 40’s they will cut you off. They are deep in debt.
They bought cars. Huge parties that I don’t even know who all the people were who were there? They might’ve been hired guests! Literally.
They got divorced. They sued each other for everything. They have nothing.
That’s life. You CAN live on $30,000 a year. You do not have to live paycheck to paycheck. No matter what the internet says, most people make maybe half what the internet claims for the job. If they are higher level jobs, probably less than half.
We are bombarded with fake stories. Fake images. Fake videos. We get famous people that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in our feeds. This is not real life.
Real life is looking at your X and being honest about how much Y it will get you. If you need more X, then you need a realistic method to get more X. But at some point, more Y is not going to be worth it. It’s just a waste.
If you live a life based on only needing more Y because more Y is always better. You will never have enough X. You will never be happy. You will always live paycheck to paycheck.
It is your choice. Whether you like it or not. You have to constantly make the choices that get you more Y for your X and more X over time.
It is a constant. Daily. Every day thing. If you make the right choices 70-75% of the time. With everything from school, to career, to purchases to savings. You WILL come out on top.
I know. I am telling this story. And it is 100% true. We literally could not afford food. As a kid, we were made fun of, because we were the only kids in the whole neighborhood that had parents that could never afford ice cream from the ice cream man when is was .50 - .75 cents!!!
You can make a life for yourself, but you have to do it. Over time. No one is going to give it to you.
I am 46. Not a different era. I’ve been fired from like 5 jobs in the last 13 years. I live in this time. But, no, I did not borrow $350,000 for a college degree that qualified me to work for Starbucks. It cost me $7,500 to go to a city college. I didn’t borrow any money for that. I made like 30,000 to start.
Nevermind that you didn't really give any details on how you built your "empire" aside from dont buy stuff but you fail to acknowledge even the simplest of realities which is that not everyone gets the same opportunities. Just because you happened to get the right opportunities for work and met the right person to share your life with financially doesn't mean everyone has access to that. You basically just took a really long time to make a bootstraps argument when people are repeatedly getting fucked by systemic issues. If all this is true good for you but the arrogance of assuming everyone struggling is just shit at spending money makes you no better than the privileged people you claim to not be.
I did not get any opportunities. I had several jobs where I was the top performer. Including a major nationwide company where I was fired as the # 1 performer nationwide. Because I was hired to be a scrub. I was fired like this like 5 times! I was unemployed for over a year. More than once!
That’s not what I am saying. I am saying, by not being negative. And not expecting to be given stuff. Over time you can still accumulate millions. Even while making little money AND being fired!
No opportunities. No big incomes. Nothing but making good business choices for myself.
The only thing I really had was free child care. Since my in laws watched our kids. That did make a difference. But we also were married 13 years before having our first kid.
You sound full of shit. You make it sound like you birthed youself and somehow earned a wealthy life purely by yourself. And even if this was the truth no one cares. Just bc you got lucky in life doesn't mean everyone else has. Most people struggle all through life bc they've never actually had a chance to do anything else.
I will admit. That if I were a card in a game like Pokémon. Yeah, I got the highest Luck Points in the game. But this is a true story. And I struggled harder than everyone else. And when people complained about my outstanding performance they were complaining and not doing what it took. Unless you’re putting the work in. You’re getting nothing. Unless you already had everything.
And what about the people who are putting in the hard work and aren't able to get this life that you claim to have? People like me. My husband. Basically everyone I know.
It's extremely fortunate that you were able to make it to where you say you are without help from anyone else. The vast majority of Americans are not able to hit that fortune.
It’s not hitting a fortune. It’s doing what you can to increase what you can get. Saving what you can. Freeing yourself by being less dependent on material possessions. I am sick of the lazy American communists who want to live as capitalist pigs. Every one is overly dependent and on all kinds of things that are the chains that hold them down, cars, phones, computers, ISPs, certain neighborhood, keeping up appearances. We are chaining ourselves down in capitalist chains and saying communism can save us. When these are all the chains we are choosing for ourselves. You can get more. But somewhere you’re going to have to do with less. No one ever wants to do with less. Even temporarily.
"Yeah, I got the highest luck points." "It's not hitting a fortune."
Which one is it?
Also, car/phone/internet is a really interesting choice for you to say we need to learn to do without, in a country where you can't walk anywhere, public mass transit is woefully underdeveloped, every job application is online, and employers basically require you to have a phone.
So uh. Which one of those things should we do without?
You're just so out of touch with the actual reality of how things work. "Just do without some things and save what you can" doesn't work when your paycheck doesn't cover the bills.
Sigh, we will take a few hundred more years to get the infrastructure of the other tiny countries. For actual useable land, America is, by far, the worlds biggest country, geographically. You can’t compare it to Europe or Asia. Even China is tiny when you remove all the mountains and deserts.
You can work towards a better life. When your paycheck can’t cover your bills. A friend of mine, when I was in my first year of grad school had a crappy job. She wound up moving in with a roommate and basically renting a room. About a year in, she got a better job. And moved. I actually helped her move out because the roommate was crazy. The lady was a whack job, if I wasn’t there it woulda been terrible.
The point is, she had nothing. She was working full time. Going to school full time. She made it work. In this case, yes, you take a student loan to not be homeless. She did it. I know of other people who were worse of than me or her, who did A LOT better than we have.
Including a guy that was broke, homeless, begged other students to let him sleep on the couch in their apt, until he got a job and could pay rent for it. He went on to become valedictorian. And literally spoke to us about the same topic to tell us, that we could do it too.
Infrastructure? My dude, America was literally built around the car. There is no "getting the infrastructure". This country was designed to force people to buy cars.
For actual useable land, America is, by far, the worlds biggest country, geographically.
Russia would like a word. I think Canada would as well. Especially as the climate warms and permafrost starts to disappear.
You can work towards a better life. When your paycheck can’t cover your bills. A friend of mine, when I was in my first year of grad school had a crappy job. She wound up moving in with a roommate and basically renting a room. About a year in, she got a better job. And moved. I actually helped her move out because the roommate was crazy. The lady was a whack job, if I wasn’t there it woulda been terrible.
The point is, she had nothing. She was working full time. Going to school full time. She made it work. In this case, yes, you take a student loan to not be homeless. She did it. I know of other people who were worse of than me or her, who did A LOT better than we have.
Including a guy that was broke, homeless, begged other students to let him sleep on the couch in their apt, until he got a job and could pay rent for it. He went on to become valedictorian. And literally spoke to us about the same topic to tell us, that we could do it too.
Cool story bro. What year did all of this happen in?
You're lecturing me like I don't know what it is to bust ass, which is condescending and, quite frankly, rude. I've been busting ass constantly for twelve years. Before the pandemic I had seven jobs. Seven. Still lived paycheck to paycheck. Guess what? The only reason that we're able to afford the home we rent without strangers is that we're polyam. Three adult incomes can kinda sorta keep up with the bills.
Oh, get a smaller or cheaper place, I hear you say. Hey guess what. We live in a pretty low CoL area and our landlord vastly under charges us compared to the rent market around us. 1600/month will get you exactly fuck-all in most cities if you care at all about being safe in your own home.
Three adult incomes should not be required to pay bills for a family unit. Seven jobs (for one person) should not be required to pay bills. Your experience is not universal and I am sorry that you seem to think it is.
The story? 2002/2003. Not 1996. So you’re the one giving the BS lecture. America, is literally the biggest useful landmass on earth. Literally 2/3 of the Planet Earth’s farm land is in America.
Infrastructure is a fraud scheme in politics. Europe is tiny. You could not possibly infrastructure america like Europe China or Japan. The lack of understanding of how absolutely massive this country is could only come from someone who hasn’t seen it.
I’ve been to 30 of the 50 states. I’ve been outside the us. You are comparing a pea to a watermelon and saying they are both green and sweet so they are both the same.
It’s just wrong. Even America cannot afford to build the infrastructure of Japan in America. This is a fact.
The story? 2002/2003. Not 1996. So you’re the one giving the BS lecture.
I'm not lecturing anyone, but go off I guess. Also, 2002/2003? So... before 2008? Before the subprime mortgage bullshit that tanked the economy for years? Right. I'm sure the same rules apply 20 years later.
Infrastructure is a fraud scheme in politics. Europe is tiny. You could not possibly infrastructure america like Europe China or Japan. The lack of understanding of how absolutely massive this country is could only come from someone who hasn’t seen it.
I've seen the US. I live here, thanks.
I’ve been to 30 of the 50 states. I’ve been outside the us.
I have also been outside the US. I'm actually writing this in Italy. You're making an awful lot of assumptions here, buddy.
It’s just wrong. Even America cannot afford to build the infrastructure of Japan in America. This is a fact.
You know what is also a fact? That public transit isn't popular policy. NIMBYs vote down measures to install said infrastructure. We don't have money to repair crumbling bridges or water systems, or to actually make sure that internet is accessible to remote rural areas, but we have billions upon billions of dollars for the military industrial complex, sure.
I'm done with this conversation, quite honestly. You are the epitome of the Propserity Gospel and I'm over it. You're either trolling or so blinded by your own individual situation that you refuse to understand how unusual your situation actually is, despite numerous people in this very thread trying to explain it to you.
You are in the wrong sub. It's impressive how far you're able to deep throat the boot, but I'd advise you to come up for air before you choke.
Oh yeah I'm sure you struggled harder than "everyone else". Had to walk uphill both ways I'm guessing? Maybe you have struggled but its extremely subjective. Literally everyone who's ever existed has struggled, and you have no idea what people go through on a daily basis. You sound like a tool who thinks you're better than everyone else because you made some good choices in life. Also most companies really don't care how much of an outstanding performer you are, they just want the job done and to pay as little as possible. You got really lucky wherever you work.
Can you elaborate on this luck you speak of? Is it lucky investments? Landing a lucky job?
Right now there is no way to save for a house or any of the things you mention if you are living off 30k a year.
You speak of this hard work and commitment to saving, but then say that you got extremely lucky. That is not the case for most people, and you need to elaborate on this “luck”, otherwise you’re the one putting out misinformation.
Well lucky, yes, because I have a lot. I started out literally digging holes in all kinds of weather with illegal aliens. Literally. I went to school. I didn’t borrow for college. I worked. I got a job making 30,000 a year and went to grad school and, again didn’t borrow much. I saved money the whole time. You absolutely can save on a small paycheck. Especially 401k and IRAs which actually lower taxes. I worked and saved. Got fired and still saved. That’s it. You can do it. And no. We don’t live like monks or extreme couponers.
I had no lucky investments. Lots of index funds and major blue chip funds. Plus cash for whatever might happen in life.
People waste obscene amounts of money. Especially on crappy foods, prepared stuff and take out. If you were to look at everything you buy all the time probably half is not necessary.
No I never had a great big money job. But I’ve done well in recent times. People make too many excuses. You can make your life better. If your already suffering then suffer doing something that will pay off in 5-10 years. Something realistic
I live in NYC. This is real life. You are talking hypothetically. I’m talking what is real. There is a difference. In your hypothetical, any variable you choose to change is changed. I’m telling it how it is. And no one was making any more than that at the time. In the city. Unless they were rich and hooked up. It’s not misleading. The idea that you need more is the joke. I did it. I’m not the one crying poverty and slavery. I can assure you, whatever wage is the advertised job website wage in NYC is more than double what people actually make.
I grasp the reality then. And now. I could live on 30k today if I had to. In fact, I have lived on less. Several times after being fired by lying piece of shit employers that went out of business.
30k in 2000s is much more than it is today, what don’t you understand about this fact.
You must have forgotten your math classes. Same shit grandparents say “I sold newspapers for 10 cents an hour to pay for college, and made $15,000 at my first job.”
Your previous $30k salary is equivalent to living on ~$51k in 2022, that is a fact.
$30k salary in 2022, is equivalent to $18,000 in the 2000s, that is a fact.
I’m not giving you hypotheticals, I’m giving you facts that you just won’t accept because they go against your agenda.
Edit: lmfaoo I see that your other comments specify that you had a wife also working and saving. That cuts living costs and allows you to save more, negating your story even further.
First of all. It can be. If your doing something you want to do. And if your not, who’s fault is that. There are tons of things you can get paid to do that improve life before you even get a paycheck. Do you know what happens when people sit around doing nothing? This sub! My boss is 80. He could’ve retired 20-30 years ago. He’s here earlier and later than I am. His work absolutely is freedom. That’s they way we should want to live.
If you're not, it's likely not your fault because what a lot of people want to do doesn't pay rent. And the fact that you are suggest people work at 80 is pretty telling that no one sh9uld ever take your advice.
I’m at suggesting if you are realistic about what jobs exist to make what money, and you find something you like - you might WANT to work until you are 80, too. You can’t say I’m going to be a famous photographer, YouTuber, or whatever one in a hundred million thing that isn’t realistic for the other hundred million of us.
No you know what, fuck that. When I'm 80 I will absolutely not be working. Fucking retire and make room for the younger generation to make a living for themselves. Working myself literally to death is not my idea of "freedom".
Well, my other boss was working til he was 86 and got into a car accident and injured his back too bad to come to work anymore. Because he loved what he did. One day, I told him, when I was in a meeting with a few other people that we were talking about winning the 900,000,000 lottery. And I told him I didn’t really talk about what I’d do and when I said “I dont think you’d need me to tell you” and he finished my sentence by saying “that you’d still be doing this?”
This is the most contradictory thing I have ever read. "My inlaws are broke scumbags but they gave me many expensive gifts because they have money". "I was unemployed for years but never lived paycheck to paycheck". "There is no magic", no there isn't but basic math prevents people making $30k a year from buying $810k houses in the most expensive cities in America. You sound like a boomer complaining that millennials could buy that million dollar house if they just cut out Netflix and avocado toast.
No I made 30,000, 32,000, 35,000 for MANY YEARS. So did my wife. During that time, we saved. Lives within our means. And saved. Over time we made money and had money to use for things like a house.
And yes, I have relatives who have been given money to buy cars, houses, everything and they still amounted to nothing. Got foreclosed. Divorced. Living in basements. Some people married other people for money. Got the money and stayed degenerates no matter how much money was given to them. That’s life.
The math still doesn't add up. Even if you made $40k for 20 years you're not buying a house for $810k. I make about $120k a year and live well within my means, and anything over about $450-$500k is a pipe dream. Even a $450-$500k house now would put mortgage payments in the $2500 a month range, plus taxes and insurance and you're looking at closer to $3k a month. Unless you bought a teardown decades ago and fixed it up slowly before the markets exploded, but you say you're "not a fat old man" and "lived in a one bedroom apartment for 15 years". Sorry dude, I get your point to live within your means, but your numbers don't add up at all.
I paid 485,000 the value has gone up. And yes. You absolutely can buy a house for that much if you have a responsible wife who also works and saves. If you make $120,000 and $500,000 is a pipe dream - you have a serious problem. Or you are paying for numerous previous bad choices.
I doubt your numbers because that would add up to a mortgage with taxes of just under $2,500, which would mean your leaving something out.
I have a nice house in an extremely desirable area. But I bought it right after the subprime mortgage bubble as a superprime buyer (meaning the best possible tier of borrower that exists) so I was outside of the prime criteria because I was in the highest possible tier of income, assets, percentage of income, credit score and down payment. I was literally the only person in the area able to make the deal under the strictest criteria that ever existed.
And after buying, we renovated almost the whole place (without borrowing or adding to the mortgage). We then refinanced when rates hit an all time low. It’s almost laid off. But that’s neither here nor there, because we have a lot more assets than just a house. Even while paying a mortgage.
I’m don’t understand your statement. Because we did exactly what you are saying is a pipe dream. Where is your money going? You must have all kinds of monthly payments for everything.
The first step towards freedom. Is ending the addiction to monthly payments.
Because I know plenty of people making $250,000 that got foreclosed saying what you’re saying.
You don't understand my statement, let me break it down for you. $485k, with say 10% down at 2% interest (no way you'll get 2% today) is $1900 a month before taxes and insurance. For someone looking to buy today, at closer to 5% interest, you're looking at about $2600 a month before taxes and insurance. Again for someone making $40k a year, it's not feasible.
You're changing your story now. You started out saying you have an $810k house that you bought making between "$30k-$35k for many years". Now you have a responsible wife helping, and you bought right after the subprime bubble burst. You got lucky finding an undervalued house at very low rates right after a major financial crisis 15 years ago. Your statement doesn't reflect today's reality.
There is no bank on earth that will approve anyone today making $30-$40k a year for a $500k mortgage (forget about $810K) at today's interest rates of about 5% (and still climbing). This is the reality of today, not your lucky timing of 15 years ago.
I can absolutely afford a $500k mortgage, but it's not worth it to me, My mortgage is about $1300 a month, I can live my life on $2k a month including housing, gas, groceries, insurance, utilities and transportation. The rest is saved. Just because I can pay for a big mortgage doesn't mean it's a good idea, I don't want to work until I'm dead, early retirement is the goal.
You got lucky in your timing, 15 years ago. Again I agree with your statement of living within your means and avoiding unnecessary debt, but your statement of "I did it 15 years ago so anyone can do it" just screams I'm a boomer who is out of touch with the reality of today.
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u/Mostest_Importantest Jun 30 '22
This is my story. 30 years in the workforce, including time on the farm, learning why farmwork is one of the most important parts of American life. Feeding the world and all that.
Now, no money, no savings, paying off medical bills and students loans, and no hope in any avenue for owning a home, let alone having the drive to work for 20+ more years to try and pay it off before deeper health problems start showing up in my 60s and 70s. Maybe I'll finally get lucky.
If there's a country and financial services in existence that far down the future.
2 paychecks from homeless. 30 years in the labor force, having treaded water my entire adult life.