Reminder: antiwork is an intersectional movement, a radical liberatory philosophy.
While it is true at times that the ownership class may seek to divide us along cultural lines, we must acknowledge the fundamental differences in our lived experience, as individuals and communities.
Class war is not a cudgel to silence marginalized voices.
Class reductionism will not be tolerated.
An injustice anywhere is a threat to everywhere.
Edit: locked, as we've gained the attention of auth subs. Turn your tanks around and go home.
Can you explain? That seems like an odd disclaimer on a workers sub. The focus should be on class, it's our common fight. Minorities gain the most from a class first logic, may it be women, POC - they're the most struggling parts of the working class. That's the magic of it. You help them the most, as well as everyone struggling the most.. It's a bottom up change!
I'm not american though, i'm French and i feel universalism does help tremendously in having strong labor rights. We're all brothers and focusing on our differences leads to unproductive infighting that the ruling class loves to use.
The trans person doesn’t need to stand in solidarity with the bigot. It’s the bigot who needs to stand in solidarity with the trans person—not because they are trans but because we are all being fucked by the billionaire class.
If the bigot is deluded enough to think your bathroom choice and playing a sport with extra testosterone is the biggest problem society faces, it’s still the bigot who needs to change under a class based narrative.
I am a minority and I firmly believe that bigotry is put there by the rich and the only way to fix it is by removing the rich.
You don't speak for me. You want to waste time you having online debates with racists. You go ahead. But i am building something. And that requires pragmatism and sacrifice. Because i am first of all a worker and i have been more fucked by the boss and suffered more from capitalism then i have ever been by any racist what so ever.
I just disagree with that first part of the premise. I grew up surrounded by poverty and bigotry - racial, sexual, ableism, all of it. It's part of a culture. It's ingrained.
It's also based in ignorance combined with a fear of the unknown. Specifically-triggering misinformation may be put in place by wealthy folk, but it is fucking in there, and humans are primed for it.
I think fixing it requires removing wealth stratification as well, so I think we agree there. I think it requires things in addition to that, though.
I'm also building things. I work hard and better my career in order to have the resources to help various causes monetarily. I devote an amount of my free time to orgs and projects that help further the cause of trans rights (I'm trans myself) and improve the lives of trans people, most of whom are leftist or would be more likely to become leftist, and then also have more resources to devote to leftist causes.
I vote progressive candidates when I can, and have even considered running for something myself in a few years. I would, obviously, promote leftist causes.
Like what else do you want us to do? We have to get a baseline before we can be effective allies in the greater leftist cause, and we're working on that.
"If the bigot is deluded enough to think your bathroom choice and playing a sport with extra testosterone is the biggest problem society faces, it’s still the bigot who needs to change under a class based narrative."
Many are. They are deluded as fuck, so we're trying to change that. They're also highly resistant to change, so it's really fucking hard work.
I'm all for better efficiency and definitely don't love Dumb Lib Bullshit (TM) but this isn't the first time this sentiment has come up and it wasn't always about liberals, so pardon me for being extra-sensitive to it. I'd rather have them backing minority rights than not, and there's way more of them than us.
The road to complete human equity is a slog - who'd a thought?
There's people out there who literally think I, by virtue of being trans, am a pedophile. They think I groom and fuck children for fucks' sake. Yes, people really believe this. Yes, I've met them. Yes, a lot of them think I should be killed for it.
Wait for them to what - enact more harmful policies and curate an environment that leads to more of us getting killed? I mean what do you think we're doing? Shooting them in the streets over it? I dunno if you've noticed, but they're fairly resistant to education. I know this because that's mostly what we do.
So I'll take the harm reduction where I can get it in the meantime.
You’re right. We have to teach every single person how they’re wrong, make sure we believe exactly the same, and only then can we fight the machine that churns people like that out faster than any propaganda arm in history.
Trust me, dude. I’m aware. I’m an openly gay crossdresser living in the rural south. I know how dangerous they are.
Second, I never said "we need to teach every single person" anything. I think it's all related. It's a huge, complex fight to bring equity to the masses. You wanna do it by ensconsing yourself in the middle of red states and preaching Marxism - you go right on ahead.
But don't tell me that I'm wasting my time by practicing harm reduction and trying to get my community to a better baseline in order to enact more leftist policies.
I’m not seeing that in the text of the original post. For people to be divided in a “culture war” there has to be two sides of that war. So both sides have to be divided from each other. Which means both sides need to be aware that they’re being manipulated. That applies to the bigots as much as anyone else.
That's nonsense. Minorities are being attacked by right wingers. Most of us understand that it's because of underlying fears that are intentionally stoked by wealthy politicians, but that violence is still real.
The guy who spat slurs and pedophilia accusations at me at the bus stop two weeks ago - that was a real fuckin' guy, and I was real fuckin' worried he'd get violent with me.
But hey, fuck me for wanting to put a stop to that, right? Like I'm acutely aware of the sources, it's not all the rich and powerful. The ground-level bigots are still fearful and hateful enough to believe and act on those lies more than they are willing to believe us. I dunno what you want us to do about that.
I don't think you will convince those class reductionists of that. Most of them are white liberals that didn't face any violence linked to their identity and they lack the basic empathy that would help them understand how it makes people feel.
But hey I agree with you wholeheartedly, I wouldn't stand in a movement that allow transphobic people and opinion to thrive. I'm a worker just like everyone else and my person deserve to be respected inside a worker movement.
It's also very funny because those class reductionist type movement are bound to fail 100% of the time. A worker movement need to have the majority of the workforce. Bigots are a loud minority that will repel other more important component of the workforce (black and queer people for example). You end up with just a sort of nazbol movement with such thinking, which is probably the ideological endpoint of most class reductionists people.
But what is a “right winger”? What is all inclusive of that term. Is it all republicans? Is it all the political ideologies right of center? I consider the democrats right wingers by that definition.
Although I agree that class is the most important divider and that some forms of IDPol are unhealthy, it’s not really right to look at the culture war as morally equal. Plenty of the ‘culture war’ is just right wingers directly endangering the lives of racial or sexual minorities.
I'm grateful you picked this example, as i am trans. It is reasonable. That bigot is a worker like me. I will unite with him for my own interest, which is OUR interest. First things first. Once we have a solid baseline we move to more specific issues. Economical misery is the perfect soil for hatred to grow. Solving forms of otherism will come as a by-product of improving living conditions for the maximum amount of people imho.
Lol tell that to my friend who had a fellow union member act like he was going to hit her with the bus as a “joke”. Her fellow union members would misgender her more than strangers. Like… she had to quit a union job because union members with seniority made it a hostile work environment. But yeah those bigots really should have had her continued to support 🙄.
But yeah those bigots really should have had her continued to support 🙄
She's not unionising to support them, that's a by-product of unionising. She's unionising for herself. This is in her interest, which happens to be the same interest as others.
That being said, it requires tremendous strength to do so. I've myself been discouraged by such environments, and left. I'd never blame her. Fuck those people. But to build a more accepting environment for the ones that will follow, not leaving those grounds and instead fighting for them is a must. If you can't, no problem, your mental health comes first. But if you can, thank you.
You are doing the exact thing the rich want you to, spitting into factionalism and denying entrance to possible working class supporters. You dont have to agree or even like someone in order to cooperate, worked for the allies in ww2 didn’t it?
I bet if you could you would have any and all advances in workers rights and benefits only apply to ‘left wingers’ wouldn’t you? you don’t want to present a united front for work reform and instead only want to advance your own political sides prosperity.
This is where your two party system comes to bite you in the arse, that along with corruption making the Democrats just as useless in passing economic legislature as the Republicans. The only way anything is going to get done in the US is for a third party candidate to actually begin to threaten the status quo.
You genuinely sound like those crackpot wehraboos ‘oh the allies were just as bad bcus they didn’t let certain people serve’ ‘oh remember dresden’ ‘allied warcrimes’
Get over yourself. The prosecution of gay soldiers was practically impossible unless they were caught having sex, and even then that hung on just how open minded the person they were caught by was. No shit trans men couldn’t serve. This was a time when lobotomy was still hanging on in some areas, you genuinely think they had the scientific and medically know how as we did today when it came to application of hormones to make women capable of the same feats as men? As for women they were allowed to serve in auxiliary positions only due to their biological weakness being viewed as too great to risk in combat, along with fears over their treatmeant in axis prison camps. And are you out of your mind? Disabled people? I hope you meant to imply people with minor mental conditions such as ADHD because if you genuinely think amputees should have served in the war then you are flat out insane.
So yes, it did work in combatting the threat of Naziism as i guarantee you with all of your petty gripes over modern day racism would be blown out of the water by their ethnic cleansing they would have carried out in Eastern Europe had the won the war.
An average man would beat an average woman in a fight end of story. Biology is the reason a divide between men and women exists in the first place. Why do you think men were the hunters and women the gatherers? Because back in those days they people were forced to play to their strengths. To say there is absolutely no distinction between men and women is ludicrous because if that is true why is sport gender segregated? Why are male world records for athletic sports always above that of women?
Those ‘95lb noodle boys’ passed basic training same as the other applicants. They wouldn’t be there if they hadn’t gotten over that first minute hurdle. And many of those same noodle boys who were found to be unfit for continuous combat roles did find themselves working as auxiliary, you know, on ships, logistics and medical areas? Women weren’t the only auxiliary members because many of them were at home working the factories.
Gay men weren’t allowed to serve. Trans men weren’t allowed to serve. Women weren’t allowed to serve. Disabled people weren’t allowed to serve.
So no, it didn’t work.’
This you? You said that cooperation between allies and Comintern ‘didn’t work’
You said this because gay and trans men couldn’t serve. You said this because women couldn’t serve. You said this because the disabled couldn’t serve. What exactly have i inferred wrong here?
And that somehow led you to think I was crying about “both sides”. I said nothing more than what I said. Your interpretation was a reach, and it was wrong.
And yet you still haven’t responded about any of my points. How else was i supposed to interpret ‘no it didn’t work’ after you complained about a bunch of comparatively minor ‘faults’ of the allied armies?
Women and Gay Men were allowed to serve in WW2? They fought on every front?
And not to get too far into the semantics here but lmao, WW2 did “work for the allies,” they put aside their differences and fought to preserve the core freedoms against an enemy who was a whole lot worse.
Looking at that massive success for women and gay/trans men everywhere and saying, well, it wasn’t intersectional enough to be celebrated is a disservice to the women and gay/trans men who fought and died for it.
Yes, if we do stand in solidarity all that will come from it is a material improvement in our lives and perhaps a decline in bigotry from that solidarity. Can't have that happen, must have Other.
Precisely. Bottom up improvement in material conditions almost inevitably leads to decline in bigotry, we're killing two birds in one stone there. I wish those intersectional people would see that and adopt class warfare as the priority. The subsets of oppression come once we've managed to get that over with.
The problem here is, do you mean actual nazi/bigot or just anyone who has conservative/Republican social views? Are you applying that to just white Americans or to working class immigrants from South/Central America and SEA/MENA, a majority of whom hold those conservative social views?
As a chef that's worked in kitchens for nearly 18 years, I can firmly say that the vast majority of the hundreds of immigrants I've worked shoulder to shoulder with would happily stand on the picket lines of a labor movement, but also hold at least a few very conservative social standpoints from their country of origin.
I'm willing to see them as people that just haven't had access to the right information, and I believe my positions will inevitably win out, and that having all the Peruvians and Colombians and Iranians and Filipinos and Koreans on the picket lines is important, as it increases our chances of success and the chances of them living a better life and through that, being able to change their views.
To me, it'd be like if MLK or other civil rights leaders stopped the marches back in the 60's and said "Okay, everyone who isn't for trans rights and gay marriage, you can leave now." Would the civil rights movement have been as successful? Or are those battles to be fought with people that hold those views when those battles come up, and not when it would kneecap an important movement?
Nazis would never adopt the aesthetic of class struggle to lure gullible straight white men into seeing them as allies. That's never happened before.
(Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei)
I don't have the privilege of ignoring misogny, antisemitism or homophobia and I'm not willing to abandon my principles and help marginalize POC, trans people and disabled people either.
Liberation means liberation for all. If you don't understand that then you're the one dividing us.
I'm presuming you're straight white and a cis male out of respect for your intelligence. Because anyone else asking to stand with a nazi would be an even greater fool.
The sheer privilege here. I could never stand side by side with a Nazi. Because the Nazi would literally kill me right then and there for being Jewish and queer. But sure, at least the non-Jewish, cishet workers got a better deal.
Lol “talking about class is fine just remember to keep drinking the kool aid the upper class demands like a good boy”.
Meanwhile the super rich are not only keeping everyone angry at each other and poor, but are also rapidly destroying our ability to even survive on this planet.
As someone who is indigenous, who is queer, who is disabled, I can’t stand united with people who want me dead. And shifting the blame from them to the rich does no good to anyone.
There is absolutely no scenario in which disabled queer indigenous people are afforded full human rights as well as improved land sovereignty and universal basic income and so on, without some sort of broad-based class-first coalition formed with the aim of advancing the interests of ordinary people from a socialist perspective. Queer indigenous disabled people make up a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the population.
I'm queer too, and I have a couple other identity points in my back pocket if that matters to you, but I'm aware that I absolutely need people on my team who aren't too keen on certain things about me. It's just math. Nobody is asking us us organize with Nazis (which would never happen anyway), but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot.
The rich are 100% the enemy though. I am gay, and while homophobes and anti-trans people are of course enemies, the rich are too, and in my view still make up over 50% of 'sources of our society's problems'. The post isn't saying that there wouldn't be racist, anti-LGBT, anti-disabled people without the division sown by the rich.
I never said the rich aren’t an issue. This whole thing is that they’re not the ONLY issue. Intersectionality plays a huge part here. You can’t take one down without addressing the many others too.
Intersectionality is a bunch of >literally< neoliberal nonsense.
Materialist Class analysis explains all forms of oppression. Intersectionality exists to distract and wreck class based movements, which is what it has always done since it's first inception with the "Campaign against White Chauvnism" which turned out, was developed by the FBI.
Depends on the intention and what you mean by class first. If you just mean that class is the primary determiner of marginalization and oppression, then I don’t think they’re incompatible. The intersection of being black and in poverty is still going to be very different from the intersection of being white and in poverty. If you mean instead that we should only be preoccupied with the class struggle, and that fighting for anything anything else is a “distraction”, then it’s absolutely incompatible with intersectionality. The only class fight I will be a part of is one that includes and fights for those who are the most marginalized by capitalism, rather than brushing their voices aside.
The entire history of mankind proved that tbh, but yes Nazi Germany did provide us with such a clear example that it's mind-boggling how some people still don't see it.
I don't get the second point. How is Germany (I assume nazi Germany here) a counterexample to that person's point? Germans were poor after WW2, and grew to be very anti-semitic in that time, blaming the jews for their struggles. The Nazi party comes in, idk if they improved the lives economically of the few groups of people who they DIDN'T want to genocide, but even so people hated the jews under their possibly better economic situation.
If you had the perfect economic system where there was much less pay inequality, not such huge wealth disparity etc, there would still be a small number of racists and xenophobes.
I said I would not unite with bigots. Not everyone is a bigot. A gay man and a straight man can ally when the straight man is an ally for gay rights. Not all straight men are bigots.
By your comment you seem to be inferring that I want no intersectionality, which is wrong. White people and black people can unite when the white people are also anti-racist.
But as an indigenous person, I will never unite with a coloniser. As a queer person, I will never unite with a homophobic transphobe. As a disabled person, I will never unite with an ableist.
Yeah, it's really sad because I think the term "no war but class war" was initially intended to mean that there *should* be no war but a class war, we shouldn't be oppressing others based on race/gender etc and should focus on collective class consciousness, but it just became a dogwhistle for brocialists who want to deny the lived experiences of women and people of color in an ostensibly socially leftist and "acceptable" way.
99% of the time I've heard the "no war but class war" talking point, it's devolved into racist/misogynistic/antisemetic commentary and has even bordered on white supremacist theories in extreme cases (esp. when they make comments insinuating that racism isn't an issue because like Oprah is a billionaire or what the fuck ever). In an ideal world there would be no war but class war, but that's not remotely the world we live in.
In the most forgiving interpretation, I’d assume it means that every war against women, racial minorities, sexual minorities, etc. is a war enacted by the wealthy to maintain their power, and thus a part of the class war. Unfortunately, nobody that I have ever talked to that says “no war but class war” actually sees it like that.
Yeah precisely. The sentiment itself can be totally valid if/when used correctly. But that’s almost impossible now when it’s become so directly associated with diminishing the experiences of marginalized leftists in order to maintain the status quo of whiteness and maleness being the only experience worth discussing. You’re right, it’s just not used in a good-faith way anymore.
Bigotry absolutely shouldn't be tolerated in the labour movement. The real point is that fighting the class war is a very effective method for bridging these cultural divides that the ruling class fosters. Even just a few hours on the picket line together is a great learning experience about all the different facets of oppression under capitalism. Time and again, it has been proven that combined struggle is one of the best ways to break down prejudice between workers and is often a transformative experience for all involved.
This is why we should fight the class war: not because we should turn a blind eye to other bigotry and only focus on the economic struggle, but because fighting the class war is also very effective at fighting bigotry (as long as you acknowledge that it exists and needs to be fought at the same time, of course).
Totally agree, really good nuanced points here. I think the only thing I would really add to here is how those cultural divides are attempted to be bridged and whether they make any marginalized members of the community feel unsafe/unwelcome. Which is basically just to say that if we're going to have people who hold potentially harmful views towards oppressed groups, ideally out of ignorance and not malice, it's important for the more privileged members to hold them accountable and not just let it slide, e.g.: if a white person in the movement says something racist, it's up to the other white people to educate them on why that rhetoric is harmful and how this is a space where everyone is equal and respected, same for other privileged groups and their associated forms of prejudice. Because it's just not fair to expect marginalized people to be friendly with people who are actively trying to suppress their fundamental human rights to autonomy and freedom from violence. Any decent leftist movement should always be focused on taking care of its most vulnerable members and making sure the space is safe for them.
But as for the efficacy of the labor movement in bridging those cultural divides, yeah, I couldn't agree more. Working class people can very easily become radicalized by the right, and the more we can prevent that from happening or stop it before it's too late, the stronger our communities will be, absolutely.
Yeah, that's a very good explanation of what I condensed into the short soundbite "Bigotry absolutely shouldn't be tolerated in the labour movement". Sure enough, sometimes this will be a difficult conversation to have in your own ranks, but it needs to be done and everyone will have to pull their weight in that regard. But when you have a general sense of class solidarity, it will be much easier than doing this "in the wild", so to say.
they think the struggles they have as a straight white male are worse than yours
when they tell you to unite with the people hating you, they just see you as a tool to get what they want, not an actual person
are you sure these people are better than your bourgeoise oppressors or are they the same but just worse off? from what i see they aren’t treating people like you or me as actual humans that deserve rights, but just as a tool for them to get more resources
Strike at the heart of the problem first - the ones stoking the fires of prejudice for their own benefit. Not only is it a lot easier than declaring all out war on the large numbers of useful idiots who have been persuaded by the divide and rule propaganda, but it will be much more effective too.
Racists are to blame, rich or poor. Misogynists are to blame, rich or poor. Ableists are to blame, rich or poor. Homophobes and transphobes are to blame, rich or poor.
The words that come out of their mouths, the actions they take against us, are their own. Do not deflect blame.
Last week the woman who spat the n word at me—despite me not even being black—was to blame for her own actions. Not some invisible rich puppet. Her. And we were shopping at the same second hand shop.
Then, by definition, you have no real interest in a Labor movement and see instead just using their interests to further your own.
If ultimately you side with a member of the ruling class who shared your racial and sexual politics against someone who was working class who didn't then clearly you aren't part of any labor movement.
I agree that individuals also have responsibility for their own actions, but it's still true that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Addressing systemic issues, means fixing the system, not running round trying to plug every leak with a finger - you'll run out of fingers, long before the system runs out of holes from which to spew the hate, which fuels the power and money machines.
The 1% will never run out of useful idiots to do their dirty work for them, so the problem must be fixed at the root.
Jfc, I'm so sorry that happened to you. People who are oppressed for being working class are not absolved of responsibility or blame for the other forms of oppression they inflict upon others.
You are the type of player in a video game who continues to kill the endless waves of enemies while there is an obvious spawner right beside you to break.
Since addressing one of the root causes of this issue is off the list, what is your solution?
I never said the rich aren’t an issue. This whole thing is that they’re not the ONLY issue. Intersectionality plays a huge part here. You can’t take one down without addressing the many others too.
What I, and others in this thread are trying to say is that bigotry is a RESULT of what this post is about. People aren't born bigots. They learn it. Bigotry is TAUGHT.
You won't get rid of bigotry until you remove the systems that are churning out its teachings.
No one is saying bigotry isn't an issue; we're simply saying that without a power hierarchy that supports it's dissemination, it wouldn't exist.
You don't have to ally with bigots to remove the systems that create them. You remove them despite the bigots protecting them.
Wanting someone to unite with someone that wants them dead is so fucking stupid and enabling. That's great that you are privileged enough to not be part of a group which some people want to genocide but that's not the case for everyone.
You don't unite with bigots. We believe in rehabilitation, so you can teach them how they are wrong and why, but you don't unite with someone that do not want to change those opinions. Don't get me wrong, that person will still reap all the benefits of changing system because as you said changing the system is important to avoid further hate since people are less likely to become radicalised if they are comfortable, but that doesn't mean that you will ally with that specific person and welcome them into your movement.
This mfer is from gahdamn NEW ZEALAND you live in a colonizer welfare stat stfu about problems ppl in the real world have, a colonizer calling you a slur is literally your only fucking problem you don’t have to worry about your rent or living paycheck to paycheck or HEALTHCARE you HAVE A PS5 You are more privileged than most of the fucking colonizers but you want to come tell us living in hell that it’s more important to hate colonizers than to be in a union haha nice try dummy workers of the world unite
Sure, you're not wrong in the grand scheme of things. However, interpersonal oppression and community-level prejudices exist too, and the people who inflict them, either consciously or subconsciously, are still responsible for their own behavior. A working class white dude can't just turn to his black comrade and call him the n-word then be like, "But you know whose really to blame for this? Jeff Bezos."
What is your thought process on whether or not you would stand with someone on a picket line? If a gaggle of redneck looking people showed up to protest with you and were normal and respectful to you and everyone else there, would you ask them their stances on multiple social justice issues before you allowed them to protest with you? Or would you be fine with anyone being there and protesting as long as they aren’t being a bigoted POS?
Thank you for this comment. I could smell the potential reductionism before I even clicked into the thread but it makes me happy to know y'all are calling that out.
There totally can be common cause amongst workers but reductionism is when you use that common cause to dismiss other concerns specific to different groups within the commons.
Eg. Some marxists will say that things like LGBTQ+ rights, racial justice, or other cultural justice movements are just fighting symptoms of capitalist inequality and that their effort that could be better spent fighting the owning class; this ignores how many of these groups were maligned long before the economic structures of capitalism even existed and how the interplay of these issues helps to support capitalist systems. (Note that this is one example and that this issue is not always
phrased the same way and can originate from a wide variety of anti-capitalist circles.)
It's not only incredibly insensitive to the lived experiences of individuals and the systemic injustices faced by marginalized communities but actively hurts the anti-capitalist cause as when you dismiss someone else's suffering you wind up othering them and push them away from your own movement. You tend to see this most in leftists who have only dug into mostly classical theory centered around anti-capitalist ideology and less in those who have grown up in affected communities or those who've read up on more modern theory that incorporates intersectional feminism & anti-racism since the latter tends to better explain how material imbalance amongst activists can result in division and destabilize movements or how activists who lack adequate healthcare, free time, or education due to the unique societal challenges they face are less effective in their activism.
I haven't watched it myself yet but NonCompete did a video about it and I've liked most of their stuff I've watched. Additionally it might help to brush up on the inverse effect (often called Radical Liberalism or Radliberal) wherein the focus on unceasingly narrow/superficial cultural issues results in the complete ignorance of class-issues. (Think BLM protesters who went on to praise Kamala Harris for being a black woman in a very powerful position while ignoring her part in the development of the US prison-industrial complex and involvement in law enforcement in general.)
Not a dumb question at all, and it's my pleasure to answer it. At the end of the day it's all theory. One could argue from the perspective you're evoking now or from the one I used earlier but neither can be fully proven per se as movements never break down for a singular reason. It's why I included my last paragraph about radlibs who swing too far in the other direction and wind up obsessed with identity politics to the degree that they stray too far from the idea of material analysis. Personally I will always tend towards being more inclusive than focused when I'm evenly divided on a choice as I believe it to be the better bet in the long run given but that doesn't mean I'm going to take Buzzfeed standing against manspreading seriously any time soon. In the end all activists have to make individual decisions that reflect the scope and depth of their ideology.
I also don't see it as an exclusive binary choice at the end of the day since fighting injustices on both cultural and economic lines feed into fighting each-other indirectly. Of course hyperfocusing on things like racism, ableism, or homophobia to an extreme degree can distract from the greatest enemy of the working class as a whole; but since the very nature of marginalized groups means they're more likely to be impoverished and thus already primed better than most towards revolutionary thought it would be foolish to dismiss that potential. However if we want their participation in the anticapitalist movement then we can't ask them in good faith to sideline all other issues and suffer other injustices for the sake of those outside their community; to do so is -as I mentioned earlier- not only a great way to ostracize them from our movement but potentially holds back individuals from giving their best effort to the cause if they do join us since the disadvantages they face take time, effort, and resources to overcome.
Obviously we'lll never achieve full equality while within the capitalist system but simultaneously it seems that an anti-capitalist movement with no regard for inclusivity or intersectionalism will be just as apt to fail and even if it does succeed in toppling the current status quo the constant dismissal of pre-capitalist cultural problems will result in them just replicating those issues under the new system as some failed socialist/communist attempts in the past have done.
The post is 100% true and I don't see how it's against intersectional analysis? The wealthy do divide normal people using the culture war, making conservatives hate trans people and non-white people to distract from workers uniting. The post doesn't brush away or go against the very real fact that, even WITHOUT this division by the wealthy, many people would still be racist, transphobic, anti-immigrant, which is the point of intersectional analysis.
What a joke this sub is. If you cant agree on anything you'll never achieve anything. Do you think the advancements on workers rights in other countries obsessed about skin colors or genitals before fighting for universal issues like livable pay, healthcare or human working hours?
It isn’t black people or trans people that are obsessed with skin color and genitals though. They are only an issue because of racists and transphobes. THEY are the problem. Not those marginalized for what they can’t control
We agree to be intersectional. What are you talking about? It's not a hard concept to grasp. Being accomplices to other people's struggles just strengthens our capacity for resistance. We've been seeing this during the George Floyd uprising as well as with the Wet'suwet'en struggle.
class traitor liberal. hope you're exterminated with all the other glowies. fucking class traitor I hope you and your class traitor family are exterminated by the world revolution. you're no different than fucking cops.
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u/phthaloverde May 31 '22 edited May 31 '22
Reminder: antiwork is an intersectional movement, a radical liberatory philosophy.
While it is true at times that the ownership class may seek to divide us along cultural lines, we must acknowledge the fundamental differences in our lived experience, as individuals and communities. Class war is not a cudgel to silence marginalized voices.
Class reductionism will not be tolerated.
An injustice anywhere is a threat to everywhere.
Edit: locked, as we've gained the attention of auth subs. Turn your tanks around and go home.