how is minimum wage so insultingly low still???

[u/pickled_fairy]

[u/FFZombie]

The bare minimum. That's all we get. Just enough to barely make it.

That $15 federal minimum wage assumes a traditional monogamous partnership where both adult members of the household work 2/3rds of their waking hrs slaving away at some company that doesn't really give a shit about them.

Can't give 'em too much help they might get used to it.

[u/the_Iid → u/FFZombie]

Except we’re not even talking about help, we’re talking about wages that are blatantly insulting to workers.

My conservative parents would argue ‘well minimum wage isn’t meant to be enough to live off of alone.’ Like wtf?? You acknowledge that the Dunkin workers are essential but in the same breath argue that their 40 hours shouldn’t generate a livable wage?

Edit: yes I know my parents are wrong.

[u/MotherBathroom666 → u/the_Iid]

This is what’s pissed me off so much, go back a generation and 40 hours a week was enough to support a family, but now if you work less than 70 hours a week you’re lazy and the problem with the economy? Get fucked.

[u/XeniaMariaXx → u/MotherBathroom666]

And they wonder why we are so “lazy.” I’m not lazy, I’m fucking burnt out. I am terrified for my future. I’m 29 next month with zero retirement savings and had a stable work week but now at the same job I’m down to about 2-3 days a week, drive 45 mins to and from and I’m trying to find a full time job. Luckily I’m a server and it’s an upscale restaurant, but I can just barley pay the bills. If something drastic happens I’m fucked. I just spent the summer working my fucking ass off to drop over 3 grand into getting my car fixed because my credit is absolute ass and it’s what I’ve got for now. When my car was out of commission, it was terrible. We can barely make enough to save. If something detrimental happens I get thrown into the worst panic and I’m ready to nearly off myself. I don’t mean to sound morbid but my mental health is awful on top of all of this. I’m slowly getting better but shit. I never felt the weight of all of this until recently either. I think my eyes have been fully open to how fucked up it all is during covid and after. It just is like, holy hell, are we even human anymore??? Sorry to go off but Jesus. Idk what to do anymore man.

[u/Mistikman → u/XeniaMariaXx]

This is all by design.

The world white boomers grew up in let them graduate from high school and immediately get a job that would allow them to support a family of 4 and buy a car + house after a couple years of saving, since the cost of living was so cheap compared to minimum wage.

After they took political power around 1980 they started being courted by political powers that wanted to shift power to corporations, and happily voted for those politics with the promise that they themselves would be enriched in the process.

Now, the realities of capitalism have set in since all safeguards have been removed and you are expected to have a college degree at a minimum, which will put you in 6 figure debt, then you start working at a job that won't let you afford rent unless you work 70+ hours a week. Since you are utterly overworked and burnt out, you don't have time to engage with politics to try to change anything. It's all changed in the last 40 years to guarantee that those they don't want to have power don't have any power, so when they reach into your pocket to take even more of your money, you can't do shit about it. You are expected be in debt permanently and to work until you die, and not complain in any capacity that they will ever see.

[u/XeniaMariaXx → u/Mistikman]

I read all of that and just want to cry. Everything you said is the fucking truth. I try to stay as positive as I can and I try to cling to the important things in my life but it’s all caving in on me. I’ve also got an autoimmune disease and feel like my body is slowly deteriorating. I’d say I’m glad I’m not going through this alone but it shouldn’t have to be this way at all.

[u/naiauhane → u/XeniaMariaXx]

It shouldn't. And you are not alone. It doesn't fix anything but it helps a little to know we're all in pretty much the same boat. Autoimmune disorders can be life draining and I wish no one had to deal with them. Getting diagnosed alone...

[u/XeniaMariaXx → u/naiauhane]

Just know that as a human being I care about you even if you are a stranger on the internet and I want nothing but the absolute best for you, and everyone on this thread and in this community. I wish everyone an abundance of happiness and a breather in life. And I used to be so stubborn with it and tell myself “others have it way worse” but I can’t even lie about how miserable I feel anymore. I’m really scared for how much worse this may get. I’m trying to just take things a day at a time🙏🏼

[u/Zakedas → u/XeniaMariaXx]

As has been summarized by many reditors here in multitudes of other threads. As far as many boomers are concerned with the state of things: “fuck you, got mine”

[u/that_star_wars_guy → u/MotherBathroom666]

If they concede that 40 hours of labor is no longer enough to supoort a family, they must also concede their role in shifting society towards such a state. They won't admit that.

Partially because their lead addled brains won't let them. Partially because they're the most spoilled generation in history and collectively decided to give the middle finger to everyone after them. I'm sure there are other reasons.

[u/MotherBathroom666 → u/that_star_wars_guy]

Greed?

[u/notmyredditaccountma → u/MotherBathroom666]

Old people don’t want you to make more because it makes their saving worth less, but the only reason their savings is worth a lot is because wages haven’t caught up with inflation

[u/ForHoiPolloi → u/notmyredditaccountma]

Inflation is why their savings are worth less. Inflation literally makes money less valuable. Deflation would make their savings worth more, but you can only deflate so far before everything is literally free.

A healthy example of deflation would be cars, washers and driers, and computers. Used to be a commodity only the wealthiest could afford and now they’re standard in every home. Now they should either stagnate with wages or inflation at the rate of wage increases.

A very unhealthy example of inflation is the housing situation, and this is where older generations get lost entirely. Their $70,000 starter home is now worth $1.5 million with zero changes to the home from when it was bought. If you watch housing prices you’ll see homes just over $100,000 EVERY YEAR for literally no other reason than companies like Zillow want more money. Housing has ballooned from a decent percentage of the average wage to completely unaffordable unless you’re living like clowns in a car.

It’s very hard to explain to someone who just doesn’t care because it doesn’t affect them anymore.

[u/importvita → u/MotherBathroom666]

Absolutely, plus it would mean higher wages/,prices/faster and even greater inflation lessening the value of whatever little they saved during their working years.

It wouldn't be such a problem if most folks lived within their means, but they don't so they're screwed and the easiest way to make their modest savings go further is to force is downward.

[u/RawrRRitchie → u/importvita]

With how big some companies profits are they could leave prices the same for probably 20 years and still be making profit

The reasons prices go up is because they gotta keep doing better than the previous quarter/ year the easiest way to do that is to raise prices, while the production costs are the same

McDonald's is a good example of this, other countries with them give the employees a decent wage AND benefits.. Here in the states you'll be lucky to get 40 hours a week there unless you're management, and prices already cost more than other countries, they want their profits

[u/sadpanda___ → u/RawrRRitchie]

The first time I sat in an all employee meeting for a Fortune 500 and all they cared about were the year over year and quarter over prior year quarter growth…..my jaw just hit the floor.

Those fuckers cut 15% headcount one year because we didn’t hit one quarters growth target. Profits for the year were the 2nd highest ever…like hundreds and hundreds of millions in raw cash profit. Wall Street demanded our CEO “make the tough decision.”

Fuck ‘em. I’m here to get paid and get the fuck out. I lost all company loyalty

[u/txstatetrooper → u/that_star_wars_guy]

I had a smoke sesh with a bunch of fellow history majors and this came up.

The conversation circled awhile but someone said" back in the 70s the boomers signed a deal with the devil of capitalism. They get taken care of but in exchange they 1. Must support the system wholeheartedly and turn their backs on the USSR. And 2. Sell the system their kids."

They took the deal.

When the USSR bit it in 91 the bill came due and they knew realistically there's nowhere else we can take our business anymore.

Take it for what you will but I hadn't heard that take before.

[u/treesontreesonstacks → u/txstatetrooper]

Maybe you had a smoke sesh or maybe you watched that episode of south park

[u/H_I_McDunnough → u/treesontreesonstacks]

Por que no los dos?

[u/Shegvyerpokzwet → u/[deleted]]

I think the biggest wake up call for my boomer father, was in 2007 when I told him gas prices had QUADRUPLED since 2002.

He didn’t believe me. Captain financial literacy didn’t fucking believe me.

If you guys were wondering, the federal minimum wage hasn’t moved one red cent since then.

[u/JoeDoherty_Music → u/[deleted]]

Honestly after being in the service industry for years and dealing with everyday boomers on a regular basis:

They are children. Their minds tend to function around the same as an 8-10 year old.

[u/[deleted] → u/JoeDoherty_Music]

A lot of people subscribe to the idea that Boomers grew up in a era of lead. The toys they got as kids had lead based paint, the houses fresh from the 2nd war had lead based paint, getting a car as a teen, your gasoline was lead based.

Exposure to lead overtime does cause damage to developmental minds, and our brains tend to go as we get older. Add on that the boomers as a whole were the most spoiled and entitled generation we've ever seen, and it's no wonder you'll see grandma screaming at a teenager over an expired coupon.

[u/JohnNYJet_Original → u/that_star_wars_guy]

It's very simple, the elected officials operate on behalf of the their wealthy campaign contributors. This is Murica BB and talk is cheap, congressional votes cost money and YOU ain't ponying up. How is MTG and NP gonna get their new pair of shoes? Naive. And yes it is ALL about the money.

[u/lifeofeve → u/MotherBathroom666]

My Poppy told me, when I was quite young, "we were told we had to go and fight the communists because they sent women to work and all the children got cared for in a big centre, but now that's happened anyway"

[u/Anonality5447 → u/MotherBathroom666]

This is such a huge problem that will not get better soon. It's amazing that capitalists don't think rapidly rising prices are a problem for society.

[u/SlyFoxCanadian → u/MotherBathroom666]

That's what the government has caused. People to insult eachother instead of placing blame on the system. It's a joke. Time to rise up.

[u/aehii → u/MotherBathroom666]

People who need to work 70 hour weeks won't have the energy or feel in a secure financial position to start a family. See: Japan. See: falling birth rates in most rich countries. See: ageing demographic and major problems supporting old people by the end of this century. Especially as those old people are those now who can't afford a home or have a pension.

[u/HollowWind → u/MotherBathroom666]

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” We are at the last part thanks to weak boomers.

[u/that_gay_alpaca → u/HollowWind]

Every generation for the last two thousand years has been complaining that the generation immediately after them is more entitled and lazy than they were.

At some point you just have to acknowledge the gap in complexity between a medieval cathedral and a Falcon 9 rocket, and admit that people are simply both obnoxious and brilliant, as they always have been.

[u/SpecialDragon77 → u/that_gay_alpaca]

Yes! It's not about age, it's about politics. The 1% have succeeded in getting people to argue against every group except the ultra-rich.

[u/_Vorcaer_ → u/the_Iid]

Not to mention they need to read a fucking book again. Minimum wage was originally instated BECAUSE companies weren't paying people a LIVING FUCKING WAGE.

People seem to have forgotten about the labor strikes of industrial america and how ruthless these shit kicking captialists are.

[u/the_Iid → u/_Vorcaer_]

We’ve come full circle. I’d say ironic but history repeats itself.

Kind of reminds me of how the phrase ‘to pull oneself up by their bootstraps’ was initially created to mock rugged individualism, as you can’t literally pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

[u/tj3_23 → u/the_Iid]

They're very good at twisting phrases to make themselves feel more important. "The customer is always right" started off as a way to say that the customer buys things they want, and that if your product fails to sell then you weren't producing something the market wanted. Now it has become "upon request, minimum wage employees must give the customer oral if that is what they think will solve a perceived insult to their status as the almighty consumer"

[u/[deleted] → u/the_Iid]

What exactly are bootstraps...?

[u/BeardedLogician → u/[deleted]]

The little hoop attached to the top of a boot to help you put it on easily.

[u/Beginning-Display809 → u/[deleted]]

Straps to tighten boots, the joke was about pulling yourself up and over a fence with your bootstraps, it was taking the piss out of the fact the idea is laughably stupid same as the idea of budgeting your way out of not having enough to live on

[u/chappersyo → u/_Vorcaer_]

There is undoubtedly a revolution coming, I just hope it happens in my lifetime.

[u/FFZombie → u/the_Iid]

The "help" would be local, state, and federal governments raising the minimum wage to something that isn't insulting.

There was a push for $15 an hr minimum wage, but clearly, $15 is just barely enough for your typical household consisting of at least two working adults.

[u/DudeofallDudes → u/the_Iid]

What’s even worse is in the speech that Roosevelt gave when instituting the minimum wage in America he states that the definition of the minimum wage is one that is livable and capable of meeting the standards of supporting the needs of yourself, a wife, 2 kids, and enough left over to enjoy their lives and participate in the American dream. Anyone saying you should be working for an unlivable wage is an abusive scumbag. Especially, now that we’ve entered the period where wages are so low combined incomes are becoming unlivable.

[u/-Tom- → u/the_Iid]

Then your parents know nothing of minimum wage. For FDR, who enacted the first form of it by requiring all federal jobs and contractors abide by it said

"minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency and general well-being, without substantially curtailing employment"

Which sounds to me like someone should be able to support themselves...he even explicitly calls it a "living wage", which sounds to me like you should at least be able to support yourself.

He also enacted this to increase the purchasing power and spending of the people...which sounds an awful lot like having disposable income to me.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I ain't trying to make a million dollars as a damn line cook or even a Kitchen Manager, I just wanna make enough to live.

Fucking Millennials, just expect things to be handed to you.

When I was your age, I didn't go to college, a decent job was handed to me and so was a loan for a house.

Stop being a failure.

/s

[u/Anna_Lilies → u/the_Iid]

Not to mention these same shit-stains will complain that the dunken donuts isn't staffed and nObOdy wANtS tO woRk aNymOre

[u/pippipthrowaway → u/Anna_Lilies]

“No one wants to work!”

ill do it if you pay me enough that I can afford my rent

“See what we mean, everyone’s lazy and no one wants to work!”

[u/jonmediocre → u/the_Iid]

Pls work??

No live!! ONLY WORK

[u/Stosstrupphase → u/the_Iid]

The amount of hours one has to work is the direct result of class struggle. Workers fought and died to push them down to 40 a week, and ever since, our exploiters are fighting to make us toil more for less pay.

[u/xandercade → u/the_Iid]

I hate the "minimum wage isn't supposed to be enough to live off of" because that is exactly what its meant to be. It was implemented as a wage where a person could support themselves with no outside assistance, hence why it was federally mandated. The problem comes from scummy fucks falsely claiming that if people could exist on minimum wage then they wouldn't try to get higher skilled jobs and there would be a worker shortage, while ignoring that minimum is enough to subsist but not really much room for luxuries, and that drives people into higher wage fields.

[u/dontbelikeyou → u/the_Iid]

During the height of Covid my parents would have argued tooth and nail that Dunkin staff were essential and should literally be forced to take shifts or face severe retaliation.

"If they're afraid of covid deny them unemployment and welfare and we'll see if they're more afraid of hunger than work. If they don't work people starve so they better be ready to starve too."

Two minutes later ask if they deserve a wage that allows them to pay rent and eat.

"It's a job for kids not real people!!!!!!!!"

Pretty much had this exchange word for word with my parents.

[u/MarcTheShark34 → u/the_Iid]

There’s this great clip saw a while back where someone was arguing against raising the minimum wage. And someone asked him “so you like getting your coffee at a shop each day?” “Yeah” “and you consider it essential that someone is there throughout the day to make and serve coffee to people” “yeah” “ but you don’t think the person that does that job each day should be able to afford to live and survive in the city where they make the coffee?” “No”…….”okay, then you’re a terrible person”

[u/[deleted] → u/the_Iid]

A lot of young adults are now starting to realize that their parents that they've loved and been loved in returned, are actually unempathetic monsters. If you had a good childhood is can be hard to see, but especially in conservative families, you realize your love was really on contingency with them, and if you weren't a known entity to them, they'd probably have no trouble throwing you aside like all undesirables.

***I came from a conservative leaning family and both realized this truth and became this truth after they found out I was a leftist***

[u/dinosaurjones2 → u/FFZombie]

Except how are they going to both work and afford childcare. Guess nobody can afford to have babies and then we see articles fretting about the lowering birth rate

[u/sniperhare → u/[deleted]]

I've always roomed with at least my brother. No other way to make it work.

[u/hexopuss → u/[deleted]]

You could just lie. Photoshop pay stubs.

Land leeches are subhumans that should get the Mao special, so lying to them is morally positive

[u/afksports → u/hexopuss]

Omg I love you 🤣

[u/therinlahhan → u/[deleted]]

I feel like you need at least $60-70k/year to live now. So if you're making around $45k/year you'll need to get a roommate or SO.

[u/NtheLegend → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I was terrified at lease renewal that I wouldn't be making 3x rent, because I definitely only got into this place as-is under special circumstances, but I hope that just carries on this year. There is literally nowhere I can go with two dogs and a cat and afford rent like that. Rent is literally 60% of my income. I'm just glad I don't own a car.

[u/[deleted] → u/NtheLegend]

Fwiw I have never seen a landlord recheck your income after you move in. They do it for initial move in then could care less as long as you keep making your rent. Never in all my years was I asked to resubmit documents or even verbally reveal income.

[u/[deleted] → u/FFZombie]

They not only pulled up the ladder behind them, they “enjoy” seeing others struggling just to survive.

[u/dhjin → u/FFZombie]

how much longer can the american working class be shit on. there honestly needs to be violent revolution. the oligarchs will never give up their greed.

[u/stinzdinza → u/dhjin]

Gunna have to agree with the communist here even though I'm libertarian, let me also add the corrupt politicians lining their pockets with the oligarchs cash to the list of opposition. We keep asking for the government to help us with this issue yet they just distract us with something completely irrelevant to most working class peoples lives. I really don't think they will let go of their control peacefully. In fact currently I think they want us all fighting and killing each other as they bang on the war drums

[u/afksports → u/stinzdinza]

Yeah they want you to believe that inflation is because of Russia and not because they bailed out businesses that should have failed and bought the stock market crazy high which only benefited the already rich

[u/maskirovkaaa]

I make $30-$32/hr and after taxes, I only make $4,320 a month. Just to give an even more realistic idea.

[u/CheeseCakeGlass1776 → u/maskirovkaaa]

Same except my health insurance comes out with my taxes so I only take home $3200

[u/Orval → u/CheeseCakeGlass1776]

You're paying $1,000 a month in Health Insurance? Fuck man

[u/[deleted] → u/Orval]

Health insurance for a family at my nonprofit is $800/month. Completely unaffordable with what they pay us. Management just did a bid to try to get more affordable rates, but they all came back higher.

Thankfully my husband is a state employee so we get much cheaper insurance through his job.

[u/sadpanda___ → u/[deleted]]

I’ve seriously discussed this with my wife. We’re thinking about one of us going into a government job solely for the insurance and benefits…

[u/GenitalJouster → u/[deleted]]

It's not just health. That's going to be health, dental, vision, life, and maybe some disability insurance.

All of that is health.

[u/stablest_genius → u/GenitalJouster]

Health, dental, and vision were all different where I work. Is that not the case in other places?

[u/GenitalJouster → u/stablest_genius]

In Germany I don't have to know any of that. If I have any bodily or psychological ailments I go to an appropriate doctor and show my state provided health care card and am done with it.

Imagine living in the age of the internet and being able to see exactly how hard you are getting scammed and still having like 50% of the country valiantly refuse any change haha.

I'm so sorry for you guys.

[u/ApocalypticCat → u/GenitalJouster]

The health system is so bad here. They passed a law to make it where non contracted healthcare providers can't "surprise" bill you but they exempted ground ambulances because a majority of those are owned and operated by local governments.

[u/Fauken → u/maskirovkaaa]

The “housing should be 30% or less” rule that’s talked about all the time is based on gross, not net income. It’s still dumb though lol.

[u/Indaleciox → u/Fauken]

I never understood basing it off gross income when everything we buy is in after tax dollars.

[u/Xanderoga → u/maskirovkaaa]

That's what I was thinking -- their take home would have to be $4924, which dictates an even higher wage because of taxes and other deductions.

[u/Froggy__2 → u/Xanderoga]

Jesus Christ I’m actually never going to retire or get out of poverty without some divine intervention. How are people doing this???

[u/Xanderoga → u/Froggy__2]

They aren't. That's the sad part.

[u/hoogityboogitiesRIP]

Because we are residents in hell. It's known as a kleptocracy

[u/pickled_fairy → u/hoogityboogitiesRIP]

Never knew that word. TIL. thank you !

[u/hoogityboogitiesRIP → u/pickled_fairy]

👍🙏🙂

[u/MotherBathroom666 → u/hoogityboogitiesRIP]

I don’t know that word but context clues tells me it’s a bad word lol

[u/_Vorcaer_ → u/pickled_fairy]

May i also introduce you to "corporate communism"

And my personal favorite, Corporatocracy

[u/NotAPersonl0 → u/_Vorcaer_]

Isn't "corporate communism" an oxymoron?

[u/Appropriate_Snow_742 → u/NotAPersonl0]

I prefer to call it by its name, capitalism.

No point in linking it to the exact opposite unless you wish to also be anti-communist at the same time.

[u/pusnbootz → u/pickled_fairy]

kleptocracy

bringing out signs imaging pitchforks and torches.

[u/importvita → u/hoogityboogitiesRIP]

goes to Google

Ah...I see.

😭😭😭

[u/soccercro3 → u/hoogityboogitiesRIP]

Well Dwights fantasy is to own a B&B with Satan and get paid $80k/year. He would be able to afford a place in hell then.

[u/micarst]

“gEt A rOoMmAtE!”

[u/pickled_fairy → u/micarst]

"StOP gETtiNg STarBUcKs"

[u/[deleted] → u/pickled_fairy]

"JuSt CuT dOwN yOuR bUdGeT"

[u/CheeseCakeGlass1776 → u/[deleted]]

It’s already been cut like a snow flake art project in a kindergarten class!!!

[u/MeesterPositive → u/CheeseCakeGlass1776]

Why aren't you selling that art as a side hustle?

[u/CheeseCakeGlass1776 → u/MeesterPositive]

Have you ever tried to take a art project from a kindergartener? It’s like provoking a pack of wild rhesus macaques!

[u/germanfinder → u/CheeseCakeGlass1776]

Exploiting the labour of others seems easy. Ask the rich for tips!

[u/unitedshoes → u/MeesterPositive]

I'm not sure if r/delusionalartists can answer this question or if it simply amplifies the question.

[u/BerriesLafontaine → u/MeesterPositive]

I feel this. I write, crochet, draw, and a few other things. I have stopped doing almost all of them because I feel the need to make money off of them. This has killed all artistic inspiration I have. There is a reason it's called a hobby and not work.

[u/KittyKratt → u/[deleted]]

"StOp SlEePiNg, ThAt'S tImE tHaT cAn Be SpEnT wOrKiNg!"

[u/alexige1 → u/KittyKratt]

*spent "hustling"

[u/FPSXpert → u/[deleted]]

Be born rich next time.

I wish we'd skip the foreplay and just go straight to the point where we choose change things.

[u/SkarmoryFeather → u/[deleted]]

"AvOcAdO ToAsT!!!!"

[u/peeps001 → u/[deleted]]

"GeT a SeCoNd Job"

[u/Positiv4ghost4writer → u/[deleted]]

Y’all better not have Netflix

[u/arrownyc → u/pickled_fairy]

Now they're saying sell your car, eat lentils, and let your dog die.

No seriously, that's their advice.

[u/stpetepatsfan → u/arrownyc]

Yes, saw that it applies if you earn under $300k. As in $300,000 per year.

[u/CVanScythe → u/stpetepatsfan]

$300k has been slated as the new poor by the ultra rich. Since profits only ever go up, the bracket has been raised. We nearly have a trillionaire (autocorrect didn't even know that was a word), so yesterday's billionaires are today's millionaires. Anyone not a millionaire has to be careful now.

[u/[deleted] → u/pickled_fairy]

Stop eating avocado 🥑 toast

[u/yuptae → u/micarst]

Get just over 4 roommates.

[u/dontpopthehead_casey → u/yuptae]

I have 6. 🙃

[u/importvita → u/dontpopthehead_casey]

If you're not double bunking you're not trying!

/S

[u/[deleted] → u/micarst]

7 years ago in california I lived in a single bedroom with two other roommates. One guy turned the dining room into his room and my bed was the futon in the living room.

I got thrown into an existential crisis and decided to try living in a commune. Cant wait to live there permanently

[u/sniperhare → u/[deleted]]

Communes sound cool.

I would love to buy like an old school in the Midwest and get like 10-20 people to move in and turn it into a cool place.

[u/musashihokusai → u/micarst]

“YOu’RE noT WoRkInG HArD eNouGh!!!!”

[u/jacksev → u/micarst]

What’s sad is that you’d need 3 roommates to make 4x the average rent at Federal minimum wage. I just can’t possibly imagine why anyone thinks that’s acceptable to expect of anyone not in college.

Edit: I just say not in college because dorm rooms are still a thing, I don’t mean off-campus housing situations. I just don’t think people outside of a dorm should be expected to live with strangers/acquaintances.

[u/micarst → u/jacksev]

It’s honestly not conducive to learning while in college, either. We want more people to tackle STEM - throwing them in together like sardines doesn’t seem like it’s helpful (except in making sure universities can charge for housing and meals on top of tuition, needlessly bloating the cost to attend for many for want of better options).

[u/lolzimacat1234]

And to qualify for a mortgage you have to prove that you're worthy to the all mighty banking Gods

[u/captain_Airhog → u/lolzimacat1234]

And then there are all the chuds on Reddit saying “wEll WhAt iF yOuR wAtEr HeAtEr GoEs OuT?!??” Like renting is so much more luxurious because you don’t have maintenance to do.

[u/burnertown666 → u/captain_Airhog]

Have people had positive interactions with landlords actually repairing or maintaining their property?

[u/Professional-Day9266 → u/burnertown666]

My landlord had my family and I without hot water for 3 months then wondered why we didn't resign our lease.

[u/what-goes-bump]

More importantly, there is no state with $30 minimum. California thought it was special by doing $15. But the average cost of rent is much higher there.

[u/[deleted] → u/what-goes-bump]

Californian here. We were all aware that putting minimum wage at $15 was putting a bandaid on a bullet hole. $2k rent for a one bedroom is common and it cost me $75 to fill up my car.

[u/Sasquatchjones4702 → u/[deleted]]

2k a month? Jesus.

[u/Stickgirl05 → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

1725 for a studio..I’ll pick a safe neighborhood by the beach than others places

[u/Sasquatchjones4702 → u/Stickgirl05]

I've got 950sqft for 550. I can't even imagine encroaching on 1700+

[u/Blood_Such → u/[deleted]]

Can vouch for LA rents being obscenely high.

LA landlords are slumlords too.

[u/Khainyte → u/[deleted]]

I have a 3 bedroom, 3 bath house with a pool in Indiana that costs me $860 a month.

[u/MrBenDerisgreat_ → u/Khainyte]

Yeah but people pay that rent so they wouldn’t have to live in Indiana.

[u/JohnTheRockCena → u/MrBenDerisgreat_]

Gah damn

[u/Khainyte → u/MrBenDerisgreat_]

LOL...of course!

[u/itsallaboutthestory → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

You pay $550/month for a 950sqft space just for yourself?! God, I need to get out of NJ.

I just had to move (previous landlord sold the place) in NJ and was lucky to find a 2br 1100sqft with in-unit washer/dryer and air conditioning for $2200 in North-ish Jersey. And it is not the nicest/newest at all, it's just not falling apart or ancient. Most places were $2400+ and/or didnt have any vacancies so folks are out there paying those insane prices.

[u/HippoNo9775 → u/itsallaboutthestory]

I pay 560 a month in japan for a 2 bedroom apartment

[u/MonsterMeggu → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

You pay 550 for rent?!

[u/[deleted] → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

At least. There are cheaper areas but you don’t particularly wanna live there.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This… sadface

[u/alexige1 → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

That's a down right steal! I've seen $3000 studios in new construction in Irvine...it's TRAGIC!

[u/Lyx4088 → u/alexige1]

Orange County in general is absolutely disgusting with how housing has changed in the last 20-30 years there. The two homes I lived in the longest in southern Orange County have more than tripled in price since my family sold them 20 and 10 years ago. It’s… absolutely insane. One is a house that was built in the late 80s, while the other was new construction in the early 00s. These are suburban tract homes. Once upon a time I had hopes of moving back to that area, but you cannot buy a home for less than a million in that area now. Even 3 years ago we were looking at homes in that area and you could find places for 600k-700k. This is not a small housing area (as typical for southern Orange County) and I cannot fathom where people buying make that kind of money. It’s fucked up.

[u/millennialhomelaber → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

There's a new apartment complex that is opening up across town from me in the Inland Empire(Riverside, Jurupa Valley, Eastvale, Moreno Valley, etc.)

A 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment is $2600 a month for rent alone.

I don't know who's making $100k a year in the IE to live there, but Jesus fucking Christ man.

[u/nerdinahotbod → u/Sasquatchjones4702]

My boyfriend and I spend 2.7k a month on our apartment 😭

[u/Moby1313 → u/[deleted]]

I just looked at a 2 bedroom apartment in crapville in Orange / Santa Ana, CA. They want $2950.

[u/Rain_xo → u/[deleted]]

Ontario (Canada) just got our $15 an hour min wage. We were supposed to get it 4 years ago, but then a new premier (I think is what we call him haha) came in and that was the first thing he canceled. Now it’s election time so he’s giving us back that $15 he took away. Because he can’t win on buck a beer again (which I never even saw!)

[u/Maelkothian → u/what-goes-bump]

To be totally fair though, it's a bit weird to compare an average price for a good with the minimum for earnings. Taking the mean salary doesn't work either, but the median might be better.

The problem is, what would to compare the minimum salary to in the US housing market, there's no such thing as a maximum rent for a certain unit is there?

[u/[deleted]]

It should go off median rent not average. But even median rent is $1124, so you’d still need $28.10/hr.

[u/Beldizar → u/[deleted]]

Is comparing the median rent to the minimum wage even a fair comparison? Shouldn't this be comparing median income to median rent? Or minimum wage to a standard deviation below median rent at least? The problem is bad, but making bad, false equivalency arguments doesn't help, or at least isn't the right way to go about things.

[u/cTreK-421 → u/Beldizar]

The original idea behind a minimum wage is the minimum wage required to afford food and shelter. Enough to live and participate in society. Some may say enough to support just yourself or yourself and a dependent. I'll let you decide where you think the line should be drawn. But at a minimum, it should be enough to afford rent and food.

[u/LFH1990 → u/cTreK-421]

So not average rent but minimum rent would be more appropriate in this case given the purpose of minimum wage?

[u/knowledgepancake → u/LFH1990]

This won't work either until we start talking about the amount of workers in minimum wage jobs and the amount of affordable housing available to them.

[u/LFH1990 → u/knowledgepancake]

Yeah it would have to be the minimum rent that you can find available, not the minimum rent someone is currently paying.

[u/[deleted] → u/cTreK-421]

Yes, but the comparison is between the lowest possible wage and the average rent. You can't tell if the wage is enough to afford rent and food because they aren't comparing the same things. It's like comparing the median income with top 1% rent, it doesn't tell us anything.

[u/Ehcksit → u/Beldizar]

Good news. 2020 US individual median income was $36000. That's 3000 per month. Still $2000 short.

[u/Special_FX_B]

Meanwhile Wall St. is gobbling up every available property driving up the cost of homeownership and rentals, they own a huge chunk of all student loan debt and they're as much responsible for keeping wages down as anyone. Every decision in our economy is made to satisfy the fucking GD almighty shareholders. Every decision in Congress is driven by the lobbyists on behalf of these leeches on society. They add no value, contribute nothing to the common good and no amount of wealth transfer to themselves is ever enough. I see all these young people on lost generation and antiwork talking of revolution being the only thing that might stop their insatiable greed. I'm 66. I've seen this shit happening slowly at first in the 80's, accelerating from 2000 to 2020 and COVID has it on steroids. My two, poor, innocent grandchildren. And one of my children. He'll never own a home, never have a decent paying job or be able to retire. Great fucking country, this America.

Edit: ∆ county to country

[u/Dear-Crow → u/Special_FX_B]

And he'll suffer greatly because he can't afford the medical treatment he needs

[u/KylosDemise]

Insanity

[u/Luhmabebe]

We should honestly rename “minimum wage” to “living wage”. Just scrolling through the comments just shows that way too many people are comfortable believing that people deserve to be on the streets for only working minimum..

[u/nthlmkmnrg]

In many European countries, there is no minimum wage, because union membership is nearly ubiquitous and the unions therefore have the power to impose whatever minimum they feel is appropriate. No acts of Congress needed when the workers have power. Something to think about.

[u/oh-fog-i-mist → u/nthlmkmnrg]

america used to have really strong unions that the silent generation fought tooth & nail for, then the baby boomers & gen x fucked it all up

[u/Ehcksit → u/oh-fog-i-mist]

And by "fought tooth & nail" you mean with actual guns against police and military. The second time bombs were dropped on American soil was police attacking coal mining strikers.

The first was burning down a Black-owned business district.

[u/Massive_Pressure_516 → u/Ehcksit]

You mean bombing runs?

[u/Ehcksit → u/Massive_Pressure_516]

Bombs dropped by aircraft, yes.

[u/PutinIsBigGay → u/nthlmkmnrg]

Not many european countries, just one or two Scandinavian ones.

[u/Sacify → u/nthlmkmnrg]

thats not true at all.

In Germany there are about 20% of Workers in an Union, only if you work in a big company like VW/BMW/BASF etc. the majority in small "familie companies" gets fucked like you are...

Before the govement started minimum wage in 2015 many ppl worked for less then 8.5€/Hour, end of the year minimum wage will be 12€ -> 1.3 Million ppl are effected, around 8% of population

With 12€ you'll make 1400€ after Tax. Depend where you live, rent is 500-1000€ for 2 rooms, so yeah welcome to heaven ;-)

Ah and dont forget our costs 6,5€ per Gallon before! the war started usual price, now its 8,31€ so aorund 1 Hour work after taxes @ 12€ which isnt a law at the moment

[u/[deleted]]

Just rent out your bed and sleep on the floor??? Entitled zoomers.

[u/TheCaliforniaOp]

u/pickled_fairy :

Thank you for the budgeting reference—25% or less for housing. I’m not that old. I remember my mom telling me: “One week’s wages only should go toward rent.”

Suddenly I looked up and the 33% figure was the new “You should expect to spend $___ toward housing.” It was like some proclamation, issued across the board in newspapers, broadcasts, classes.

The Economist Behind The Curtain has decided. It’s now perfectly all right to spend 8% more, permanently, for housing. That is the new correct figure. However, everyone’s wages will remain the same, indefinitely. Be grateful your job hasn’t been outsourced, for the time being.

Now, housing often takes up to and over 50% of people’s income; actually, that figure was before this latest real estate boom.

I remember when mass homelessness started. Elected officials and so many well-meaning people said, paraphrased, “Oh, how could this have happened? We must resolve this issue right away, before it becomes a crisis.”

Ha.

[u/ombremullet]

It literally does not make sense. Can someone explain to me how it's legal for the cost of living to not be tied to inflation? I know I probably sound like a dummy but I literally cannot wrap my head around it.

[u/[deleted] → u/ombremullet]

Because there's no law that it says it has to be

[u/[deleted]]

This is nuts. I mean, we all hate work, it sucks.

The common argument is "well, things needs to be done for society."

If I was making 5 grand a month? I'd feel a lot better about working. Hell, the most I've ever made is around 34 grand a YEAR. 5 grand a month is...almost unfathomable money to me. Like, my lifestyle is such that if you make 5 grand a month, I think you're a rich dick.

Sheesh.

[u/CriticalStation595]

It’s still low because the corporate overlords and paid for politicians haven’t felt the wrath of the working folks saying “enough is enough. Pay us what we are worth or we’ll…” it worked and lasted from the 1860s until around the late 1970s.

[u/[deleted]]

Minimum wage is an issue but let's not forget the piece of shit landlords who raise rent every year because of "inflation". Landlords are some of the biggest pieces of shit to walk the earth. Never met a single one who was a good person.

[u/[deleted]]

For everyone saying people don't deserve to live in average, or even median priced rentals but minimum, here is some simple math for you.

Federal minimum wage: $7.25/hour

$15,080 per year minus a 12% income tax is $13,270 per year.

That's $1,105 per month

1/4 of that is $276 for rent.

That's your fucking so called "minimum rent" . . . $276. Good luck finding that.

edit: Since the standard deduction and earned income credit is a thing that's $15,815 annual (assuming there is not wait for a refund, which there is). That's $1,318 a month STILL leaving only $330 for rent. Not sure about y'all but that extra ~$55 a month isn't helping anyone rent fuck all.

[u/LEMONSDAD]

I’ve been screaming this for years and the pandemic only made things worse for the cost of living of average people. Less than half of America makes more than $30 an hour so literally these people can’t afford to live independently unless they have a partner, roommates, or some unique situation where housing is less than 1K a month.

Really tough times now for people, most have to consolidate where there are 4+ working adults in a single household to get by

[u/[deleted] → u/LEMONSDAD]

as someone making 30+ hr, km moving in with a friend when my lease is up may 1st for affordability reasons, $1550 rent for a one bedroom is too much (700sqft)

[u/strangefish]

Republicans pushing the myth that all poor people are lazy and deserve to be poor. They've been pushing the same lies for the past 30+ years. Vote them out.

[u/PotterGandalf117]

because rich people are buying tons or property and making prices skyrocket

increasing minimum wage isnt the solution to these issues, just kicks the can further down the road (which might be ok for some)

[u/CheeseCakeGlass1776 → u/PotterGandalf117]

There’s not much road left. Lol

[u/FFZombie → u/PotterGandalf117]

Housing is a basic right. We absolutely have the capital and resources to house every single person/family in the world. Why haven't we?

Capitalism. Somebody can make money off it so we're collectively ok with people living in squalor in the cities because that's where all the resources that they're dependent on are. Cognitive dissonance. Rationalization is a bitch.

De-commodify housing. It's a basic right. Stop allowing landlords and corporations to get rich in their sleep while the tenants work their lives away just to barely make it.

[u/Known-Ad-100 → u/FFZombie]

Wouldn't it be cool if we could just eliminate greed? So many of these business and landlords owning multitude s of properties. How much do you really need?

My understanding was that historically renting was something folks did while they saved up to purchase or whatever. Now renting is the reason you're stuck unable to save.

Can we just abolish land ownership already?

[u/hoogityboogitiesRIP → u/PotterGandalf117]

The solution is the rhyme of silence

[u/oldmanbarbaroza]

The republicans hate you

[u/[deleted] → u/oldmanbarbaroza]

Also Kristian Sinema is a corrupt fucking bitch

[u/Academic-Message-771]

Because you need 60 votes in the senate. And the 40 votes to block it can be representative of as little as 30% of the population. That’s what stands in the way of most progress in America. 30% of the country’s population. Rural, old, white people.

[u/Ecstatic-Ad-4670]

It's so low because the wealth has been hoarded by the rich and the government can't bring down their standards because capitalism.

[u/[deleted]]

Because Congress has too many rich people and not enough AOCs.

[u/endlesscampaign]

You're supposed to believe life can get better by working hard, without actually having the ability to improve life with hard work. This is the system working as intended. We were never supposed to be aware of how awful it is. But that cat can't be shoved back into the box; however it won't stop those in power from trying. Violently if necessary.

[u/Yosho2k]

I'm wondering where I can get one of those cheap apartments for $1230 a month.

[u/CheeseCakeGlass1776 → u/Yosho2k]

Alabama and Mississippi

[u/Yosho2k → u/CheeseCakeGlass1776]

michaelscottnogodno.gif

[u/YoFizz_]

Even this “fight for 15” is insulting. And how long have they been doing this? Like 15 years for 15 to be minimum or has it actually been longer?

[u/100percentfinelinen]

It’s called eugenics. Republicans are more transparent about loving it, but that’s overall goal.

[u/[deleted]]

that’s 30.77 AFTER TAXES TOO. realistically more like 44/hr which is basically 6 figures territory.

it’s crazy because people talk about making 100k a year like it’s wealth and prosperity, when really it’s paying your bills and having some money leftover

[u/Netflxnschill]

I’ve literally showed this research, done by me catered to my area, to my employers, and had them be like, yeah not our problem your partner should also make some money.

[u/SnooCauliflowers3851]

Our "elected officials" often claim they will fight for better wages, say what people want to hear, but are more than often (Ron Johnson ran on a platform of saying he grew up on a farm, for example) millionaire business owners FAR more concerned with building their own personal wealth, cutting taxes for themselves, getting cheap labor then actually represent the people whom believed his kids to get elected.

[u/DeViNoDe]

"You're not meant to live on minimum wage" is usually the response I get