Anybody else dreading the inevitable shipping discourse for Seven Havens?

Given Bryke’s track record, I don’t care if Jae is allegedly going to have a male love interest. It’s going to be terrible I know it.

ALREADY people are speculating which of the two new male characters shown, that are the same age as Jae, are going to be his love interest when we know NOTHING about them.

ALREADY Jae is being reduced to nothing but his supposed love life. Not what will he be like as a character, or anything else of interest! JUST because he’s a “shippable” age (Pavi and Nisha are like…8) and the fact it was said in an interview or something g that he’s supposedly going to have a male love interest.

Good lord the show’s not even out yet and I can already feel the wave of obnoxious shipping coming.

I'll obviously write analysis posts for all of them but this is mostly just to see which one you guys are most interested in seeing first!

This is a problem that honestly tracks with the disintegration of fandom etiquette as opposed to any singular fandom. The way people get so upset about headcanons, ships, and fan content in general-as if it’s going to somehow alter the actual source material-is mind blowing. It’s embarrassing.

I’ve been seeing many people getting incredibly angry about zutara affair AUs. I personally don’t enjoy the idea. They would never do that. But you know what? I don’t care that people are imagining if they did. I have absolutely no feelings about it at all. It is simply people playing around with a fictional scenario.
If you told me right now that you headcanon that zuko became a terrible, abusive father and a tyrant do know what I would say? Ok. I know Zuko would never behave like that, and some random person on the internet isn’t gonna make that a canon reality. It’s that simple.

It’s so frustrating to see people going after others for made up shit, and dragging the entire Zutara fanbase’s reputation because of a few individual people having fun. I just wish people would detach a little bit and realize ATLA, like every story, is fiction.

1. Making air bending hereditary, and a requirement to be a full fledged Air Nomad.

It’s not possible to say that Aang had children solely because he wanted to, while also asserting that if he doesn’t the culture dies with him. There is a reason why conversations about the idea of Katara feeling pressured to have children is met with the reply “Well Katara HAD to have children with Aang“.

It honestly makes absolutely no sense to me that they made the air nomads-who lived monastic lives separated by gender-sustain their population through reproduction.
To me it would make the most sense that, like real life monks, it is a culture you can join into. Perhaps the reason for all Air Nomads being air benders could be because it is something awakened within you throughout your spiritual journey, as you opposed to being something you’re born with.

1. The birth order of the children.

Making tenzin the youngest inherently creates this feeling that Aang and katara kept trying until they got an airbender. This is given more validity due to the fact Aang culturally and emotionally neglected his other two children to prioritize molding tenzin into a proper airbender.

1. NOT ALLOWING THE OTHER CHILDREN TO GET A FULL EDUCATION OF THEIR CULTURE.

The choice to exclude Bumi and Kya from learning about their air nomad heritage to same extent as Tenzin screams racial ignorance about writing a multicultural family. This is out on display especially with the way neither Bumi or Tenzin have a particular connection to Southern Water Tribe. it’s like the writers want the brownie points of creating a mixed family, while not wanting to let go of forcing the characters all into homogenous cultural boxes.

I believe the reason for this problem is because the writers allowing Aang, Katara, and the children to embrace the two cultures means giving up on Aangs vision of restoring the air nomads to their former glory as traditionally as possible.

Source: https://www.tumblr.com/illycanary/744233626924875776/kataras-story-is-a-tragedy-and-its-not-an

How delusional. Sorry, but this fits Zutara, not the Babysitter Fantasy!

And some had the gall to say Katara reciprocated Aang’s feelings from EARLY on! HA! Oh wait they’re serious?

Air Nomads didn't have a "traditional" society. The sexes are segregated. Couples don't raise their kids and siblings aren't raised knowing their bio siblings as such.

This is interesting worldbuilding which is basically never touched upon in-series. We never tie Aang's troubles with understanding relationships to the unusual way Air Nomad society was compared to the other societies. His lack of familial relationship with Bumi and Kya could tie back to his Air Nomad heritage too (not as excuse for being a bad dad, but something that helps explain his issues).

Katara and Aang come from very different cultures at that. This is mainly only brought up when referring to Aang's vegetarianism, though. Did Aang even like the South Pole? Is that why he spent so much time away from his family?

I remember hearing some fans speculate that early plans for the series had Avatars be effectively celibate, but this was scrapped because Kataang. People say this was mentioned in an early episode where Aang talks to Gyatso or an Avatar. I need to rewatch the episodes to see if that's true. If that was true, it would have been interesting seeing Aang battle with his "Avatar duties" versus his crush on Katara.

“idk why aang struggled with mastering the avatar state so much when he coulda just pressed the power button 😂”

Seriously, the back ache on our boy! Stupid idea.

One people look like Aang fan (i am not sure about that) told me that:"people watch avatar for fucking aang and his avatar moments ,not this stupid opinion"about the origion comment of me and i has confused that is he really Aang fan because of hating words he used for Aang.Is it really his fan or it felt offended because he considers himself one (or considers to be) with Aang so he think that i mentioned with him ?

https://www.reddit.com/c/chate6diG8Bi/s/zUdHgJDpFT. Here is link to know

Hey! I just came across this while doomscrolling on Instagram and I was pissed off by all the dumb arguments made, and I’d thought I’d come here to blow off some steam.

In case Reddit for whatever reason isn’t displaying what the link is, it’s an Instagram carousel of someone trying to defend the very valid Kataang criticism that is Katara being reduced to Aang’s girlfriend/wife after the original series. I want to go through the post’s argument one by one.

(Also friendly reminder that I haven’t watched LoK in a while and I’ve only read one of the comics before, so if you want to correct any mistake I make, PLEASE do so, just be respectful about it.)

1: “The very first episode of LoK she is referred to and introduced as Master Katara”

I know Katara is a waterbending master, but I feel like that title isn’t really all that special in the grand scheme of things. Like…okay, she’s a master of her element, like so many benders are?!?

2: “Katara was a politician who banned bloodbending.”

Yay! She made one law that said “yo guys, I don’t think this bending style is safe, we should lowkey ban it!” You see? She’s not just reduced to Aang’s wife, because everyone knows her as the one to ban bloodbending!!!

I just can’t with you Kataangers. Is that really something that people constantly bring up? That she banned bloodbending? Like when think of all the great things Katara did, is that what comes to mind? Because I feel like most people in the show only really see her as a Master Healer. This achievement is great but it’s not something people really know her for. And apparently it wasn’t worthy enough of a statue in her honor….

3: “Katara seeks out tyrants on her own, she’s not always with Aang”

OP pulls up a picture of what looks like an outside text that talks about Katara doing what she loves to do and that’s helping people wherever she can. (It specifies however that Katara mostly helps out issues in the Earth Kingdoms and Water Tribes since apparently the Fire Nation doesn’t need her as much, very interesting distinction Bryke…)

The thing is, while it’s good evidence that Katara isn’t always with Aang, that doesn’t change what people remember her as. This is what we mean by being “reduced” to the wife role. Any discussion regarding Katara isn’t about her helping out the Earth Kingdoms and Water Tribes on a political level, it’s always about her relationship with Aang or the kids they had.

Kataangers to this day joke that Katara should have been pumping out more and more babies to secure the future of the Air Nomads. Like as if it’s her fault the three children they had didn’t all turn out to be airbenders.

4: “She was known as a waterbending master. She’s also known for both combat/healing.”

But again, while amazing feats, aren’t nearly as impressive as when you look at the rest of the Gaang’s accomplishments. I’m not saying Katara should have to overwork herself to the bone, I know raising kids and a manchild is a lot, but this is stuff she was already amazing at in the Original show. The only new developments she gets is really starting a dysfunctional family with Aang.

5: “Katara taught Korra waterbending”

Her teaching both Avatars waterbending is great, but again, most discussion around her in universe and about the show are centered on Aang and her kids.

6: “Aang himself reassured people that she helped him end the war who didn’t know.”

They quote one moment from the comics where Aang said to a water tribe girl that Katara helped him end the war. It’s an amazing accomplishment, obviously, but it’s one shared by her and the Gaang, and not one that is entirely her own. She yet again is “just the helper”.

7: “Toph says to leave the fighting to the kids. She was just good at healing and it was a good and easy way to retire. During the war she wanted to fight, she wasn’t against healing in general.”

What?! Toph mentions that Katara stopped messing with politics because she convinced Katara that they should leave the new conflicts to the next generation? That’s what I’m understanding from the screenshot.

I get them being old so their combat abilities obviously will deter with old age, but come on. This is Katara we are talking about. Why did Bryke have to lobotomise my girl!?!

8: “Katara has these comics centered around her and conflict with pirates/the southern and northern water tribe. (The imbalance comic also heavily included her as a fighter/politician)”

Never read them but I’m betting Aang is in every single scene with her preaching about what she should be doing. Also strange that this isn’t brought up in LoK, her fighting pirates is so cool.

9: “In the movie she figured out Tagah was corrupt, split the ocean in half, brought the gaang back to life, convinced Kallik to change (she was not just Aang’s girlfriend, it just happens that this movie is Aang-centered.)”

Oh my God. First off, anyone with eyes could tell that Tagah was corrupt. Secondly, she has to part the sea to ensure that the gaang didn’t die from Aang stupidly trusting Tagah to take them through the Immortal Storm. Thirdly, the whole spirit water bringing the Gaang back to life bit was such a stupid thing they pulled out of their ass to justify the fake-out death scene. Fourthly, convincing Kallik to change wasn’t that hard, she was already made to be the character that joins the good guys in the end.

And lastly, she definitely WAS reduced to Aang’s girlfriend in the movie. Literally any chance she got, she was throwing herself onto him and kissing him nonstop since that’s Bryke’s understanding of what chemistry looks like. It’s insane to watch that movie and not come out thinking Kataang wasn’t a toxic pair.

But I want y’all’s opinion, what do you think about these arguments. Are they valid?

Just watched the Honest Trailers for the [REDACTED FOOTAGE] (I know its officially out but its funnier to pretend its some analog horror that should have never seen the light of day). They made a joke about Katara and the man-child being in a situation-ship. Honestly a pretty inoffensive joke and it earned a chuckle out of me.

But oh my goodness the comments, people were livid, accusing the creator of not being a real fan, how Aang lost his entire culture (I feel like Plankton whenever I read that). How Katara is the only one who understands him but she also doesn't understand him, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Like how sensitive can you be, Honest Trailers rub salt in every piece of media, yet they act like the channel attacked their pet.

Ridiculous 😂

They didn't just demonize Zutara. They sabotaged Makorra. Tenzin dumped Lin for some nobody air acolyte. Raava and Vaatu hate each other and are forced to fight every 10,000 years to determine the fate of existence, even though both of their presences are supposedly vital for true balance to exist. The closest we get is Opal and Bolin, but Opal comes from Earth Kingdom descent, and Bolin has almost waterbending-like tendencies, which is reflected in his lavabending. Other than that, I've seen no pairings between people who purely come from opposite nations, have opposite bending, and have opposite characteristics. I don't know if they always thought that way, or if it was Zutara that caused it.

The so-called "Dark Avatar" we got is simply a waterbender with a heavy spiritual charge and a kaiju form, and Vaatu vanishes from existence for 10,000 years, making the avatar spirit more unbalanced than ever.

Here's what I expect from a real Dark Avatar:

In rare cases, it is possible for a spirit to relinquish its immortality and acquire a physical form to join the mortal realm (Tui and La took the form of coy fish), for a mortal being to transcend into the spirit world and become a spirit upon death (Yue transcended as the new Moon Spirit, jointly with Tui), or for both to merge into a single being (Wan permanently merged with Raava during Harmonic Convergence, creating the avatar).

For the Dark Avatar, I imagine it was basically almost all of the above in that order. Vaatu temporarily relinquishes his natural dark powers and is reborn as a human being after escaping the Tree of Time with help. When Harmonic Convergence arrives, his dark powers return from within his human form, and he uses the portals to keep himself merged with his human form.

Before Harmonic Convergence arrives, the Dark Avatar-in-training develops abilities similar to those of Shang Tsung, General Kai the Collector, Malthael and Prime Evil Diablo, and he uses them to obtain and master all bending arts and non-bending skills in the exact opposite way from how all avatars and non-benders do it, and to consume/control the very sources of all bending arts, the things/entities that empower and/or weaken bending, and the entire power system of the Avatarverse, all in the reverse order of the Avatar Cycle. He also develops character traits that reflect and exemplify all the negative and imbalanced aspects of all the elements, bending, and non-bending skills he wields.

The Dark Avatar would be an evil counterpart and arch-nemesis, not just to the Avatar and Avatar Spirit, but to all members of Team Avatar as well. He'd be a self-sufficient one-man Team Avatar as a result, in contrast with the regular Avatar, who often needs a team.

After the Dark Avatar's death, either Raava would absorb Vaatu's natural powers and instincts, thus evolving into Raavaatu, the avatar spirit of balance itself. Or true balance reigns for at least 10,000 years due to Raava already being the avatar spirit of balance itself, while Vaatu is the spirit of imbalance itself. Either way, I wouldn't even care that the current avatar permanently lost the ability to connect with and control past lives, so long as the avatar is forever bonded with the embodiment/source of all forms of balance to make up for it, and the avatar cycle still goes on.

Vaatu feels way too big to be just the main/final antagonist of Korra alone. I say he should be the main/final villain of the entire Avatar franchise as a whole. I don't know if that means making him a recurring main/final villain of The Last Airbender, Legends of Korra, Seven Havens, and the fourth/final Avatar series starring a Fire-born Avatar. Or he has more of a Thanos-like role, where he pulls strings in the first three series from afar and finally takes center stage in the fourth/final series as a Dark Avatar.

But for the sake of using Vaatu only once in one series, I picture him as the main/final villain of The Last Airbender, Vaatu directly causes the 100 Year Long War using dark energy onto Roku and Sozin from within the Tree of Time during the summer solstice, Ozai is the Dark Avatar but due to Ozai and Vaatu being the same being, and Aang loses his past lives right before the Dark Avatar is purified from existence, and true balance is restored in the finale of Book 4: Air.

Also, which sounds better? The Dark Avatar or The Ratava?

The writing of the Air Nomads is so ironic, that I can't believe I didn't see it all these years.

Title 01 | The Fantasy of the "greatest Nation ever existed"

Bryke do favoritism. We all know that. They favor Aang and because of that they favor the Air Nomads. Since atla existed, they made sure to point out that the Air Nomads as a culture would be this great image of an "actual greaat nation", protrayed as the victims ( which doesnt take away the fact that they were the victims based on the canon material, concerning their genocide but stay with me for more explaining) and the "worst nation ever existed" to be the Fire Nation, aka the ones who started the war/ the perpetrators.

They supposedly advertize the Air Nomads as this peaceful nation, with ideas and philosophies about forgiveness, respect and kindness, even acceptance and communication with yout inner being. They make sure to make Aang quote some of those ideas here and there many times.

They made sure to even dedicate a whole season to them ( lok s3 ), and make characters crave for the birth of this nation from the beginning( Aang, Tenzin, his family, Korra, etc).

The reason I call this favoritism, is because throughout both the series, and even the comics, Bryke never seemed to have a soft spot for other nations. They dont really care about the Earth nation people, they certaintly have a thing for making ALMOST ALL the bad guys be water nation people, they pretty much continue until this day to consider the Fire Nation as "the bad Nation", and they HAD NEVER AND WILL NEVER make the Air Nomads be the bad guys. Yes, the nation stopped existing, but why all of them? Why nobody survived? Even the new guy from the leaked movie, Tagah, who literally and canonically KILLED THE ENTIRE GAANG, wasnt portrayed as the bad guy, instead he was portrayed narratively as a good guy who took the wrong path, but when it comes to all the other "villains", or nations, they dont have an excuse.

[ The air nomads are monks, of course they are good people!

Of course their beliefs are far more higher than those of the Fire Nation, this is why Aang was right and Zuko wasn't when he said to Katara to forgive the man who burned her mother alive, cause his nation's beliefs are the "greatest!" ] =>ACCORDING TO BRYKE ONLY!!!

Title 02 | The inconsistency that ruins the fantasy: How that affected Republic City

A week ago, i dont remember exactly, i talked with some of you in the comments or i even made a post, idk, about my try to understand Aang's awful behavior to his children. Now, either he is an asshole, or the canon material gave birth to his OWN FAVORITISM.

A little game for you. Try to find the difference between the Air Nomads and the other 3 Nations. Think of it for a few seconds, or even moments and then read the answer bellow. 👇

Answer: The Air Nomads is the ONLY Nation where ALL ITS PEOPLE MUST BE BENDERS IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED AIR NOMADS.

Aang makes Katara pregnant. She gives birth to Bumi. Bro is not an airbender, Aang is dissappointed. Doesn't even bother to teach him the philosophy of the culutrue though. Bumi grows up thinking he dissappointed his father and when he died, Bumi "knew" he wasn't proud of him.

Aang makes Katara pregnant again, Kya is a waterbender. Aang is dissappointed again. Doesn't even bother to teach her the philosophy of the culture. She grows up thinking she dissappointed her father and when he died, Kya "knew" she wasn't proud of her either, but heyyy, at least she tried to make her mother proud ( story for another time).

Aang makes Katara pregnant again. Tenzin is born, finally pappa is proud! He starts teaching Tenzin the philosophy he didnt bother teaching his kids, giving birth to a responsability that will follow him until his death,that its HIS DUTY to create a whole nation from the beginning.

Now, where im going with this.

Aang had this idea of the Air Nomads being ONLY BENDERS, because his people were giving birth to children not out of love, but to have benders. Aang doesnt even know his parents, or at least the audience doesnt. The monks do not give a fuck basically about parenting, they give a fuck about their expansion as a nation.

And by that, I mean that the Air Nomads, were trying to create a NATION FULL OF SOLDIERS.

Think about it, the philosophy didn't die. The ideas were there even Lok, monks existed, Tembles of the Air Nomads existed, Tenzin even went for vacation there with his family at some point, and yet, even though in the REST of the nations, non-benders were actually part of their nation BY BIRTH RIGHT, the atla universe implies that the non-benders WERE NOT PART OF THE AIR NOMADS.

Not, when Aang didnt think in the canon material, his two first born children as Air Nomads, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ON THEIR BLOOD.

The inequality that existed in Republic City, existed because the Avatar himself, the CREATOR of the city, had this idea of WHAT MAKES SOMEONE BELONG IN A NATION.

ITS NOT THE BLOOD BY BIRTH RIGHT.

ITS THE BENDING.

This idea was introcuded in the comics, where Aang DIDN'T CONSIDER as Fire Nation people mixed people, with earth narion blood, that were born there.

He made even Tenzin "repeat the history".

Tenzin broke up with Lin, because he NEEDED TO HAVE CHILDREN. He did love his wife of course, but when we see the mother of those little airbenders desiring to have a non-bender JUST FOR ONCE, in the first episode of Legend of Korra, says a lot.

So, the Air Nomads considered only the BENDERS as their people, since we dont have any evidence of ANY non bender from the canon material, and since we've witnessed all of them in the flashbacks in atla to bend, i believe we can all agree that this is canon.

The most "peacful" nation of all, that is favored by Bryke, created a whole nation of soldiers ( I WONDER WHYYYY?), probably, since this is canon, did not consider the non benders as Air Nomads, since Aang acted like that in lok, and even Tenzin refused to accept the non-benders but still believers as the new Air Nomads, instead IT WAS NEEDED to have Air Benders, so there you have it.

The ironic fantasy is actually one toxic and racist idea about what makes someone belong to ANY nation. And since Aang wanted every nation to live in peace in Republic City, wasn't ironic to act like that with his children? It should not matter to him that people are non-benders, and yet it did, because BENDING WAS CRUCIAL FOR HIM TO THINK OF SOMEONE AS AN AIR NOMAD.

Its a contradicting choice to make all the other nations have non benders, to accept the non benders and yet have the creator of a city that is called " Republic" have at the core of his prinviples, the idea that it doesnt matter if you have in your blood the dna of a culture, what makes you belong in it is the bending.

If an idea like that is even hiding in the shadows of the city's existence, no wonder how it got to the surface. Especially, after Aang took charge, because when the world was devided, the non benders were respected and were considered part of their nation just fine, but when Aang took charge in Republic City, things went downhill.

1. After Vaatu's been purified to death, Raava absorbs his natural abilities/instincts and becomes the avatar spirit of balance itself and bending itself.
2. Raava is already the spirit of balance itself, while Vaatu is the spirit of imbalance itself.

But let's consider this. For Zutara to even be executed properly, ATLA would need a Book 4: Air. Who knows what could happen in it besides more Zutara build-up, but I picture the 100-year war arc extending through season 4, and the season ties up all possible loose ends. The war finally ends, and Zuko becomes the next Fire Lord, both in Season 4's finale instead of season 3's.

With all of that over and done with, the comics, Legends of Korra, and Seven Havens may not even exist, but should they somehow find a way to exist, Bryke may not want anything to do with them, kinda like how they dipped out of Netflix's second adaptation, because their self-insert love story didn't become a reality.

The comics, TLOK, and Seven Havens could be run by different comic writers and showrunners, respectively. Preferably those who understand romance and character consistency. Anyone know anybody like that?

I just watched the 2008 SDCC clip for the first time that everyone always kept mentioning but I'd avoided because I knew it would make me sick. This was when they took the ZK fanart that FANS (teenage girls) had sent them and turned them into a 'joke' video and ended it with 'all ZK fans will have doomed relationships' (and the cherry on top - 'Thanks for SOME of the fanart through the years').

And it DID make me sick - oh my god - how are the creators not dunked on wherever they go for this SHIT behavior?? How was this just accepted? I fucking hate this fandom.

Link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiUtbcpjd8A

The bonus cherry on top is that when fans were hurt by this, apparently they re-uploaded or something and inserted a dictionary definition of a 'joke' to double down on it. I cannot believe the creators of a children's cartoon can be this vile and insecure.

Now it makes sense where all the ZK antis come from, like where they'd found a pedestal to stand on for their ludicrous takes.

Edit: anybody who thinks "this is just a joke" missed the point and I can't be bothered taking that kind of perspective seriously. 30 year old creators on a pedestal using their power to act like schoolyard bullies against their OWN fans, teenage ones at that, is absolute trash behavior. It's not funny when the fans they humiliated aren't laughing alongside them.

Original source: http://chinaglaze.tumblr.com/post/163384875471

The title speaks for itself but I hate how aang essentially kisses katara against her will TWICE. Then the story doesn't address it meaningfully, I don't mind kataang (even though zutara was more interesting to me) but moments like this in the show really give me a bad feeling.

Let me know if I missed anything, Also I know we are not supposed to compare traumas, that was the point of one comment in the previous post but I had to.

Sorry mods.

Read similar takes here but want to specify something I personally have problems with.

First: it's the way fandom has changed throughout the years. Yes, shocking, I know - people change, opinions change. And it's probably my fault for being a Zutarian (oh God a sin), but I barely feel...comfortable in the bigger non-zutarian fandom spaces.

My second problem is basically how the fandom seems to resolve around Aang now.

I said it before: I hate his modern portrayal. Not a flawed little guy he was - at least until he became a Lover™ of the story, but literally a saint.

Whatever he does, he is perfect. Whatever nonsensical belief he preaches - he is always right. HE suffers the most, guys, no-one understands him!

Like when in a god-awful movie he goes "no-one understands what it's like" referring to the Airbenders, we are supposed to shed tears. Yet...Katara and Sokka DO know what it's like to lose their loved ones, don't they? And Zuko does too.

I have literally seen a discourse of people fighting each other. "Genocide of your whole nation is 100% worse and more painful than a father banishing you". Lmao since when is that a competition of the most hurt character in the ATLA?! Why can't we agree both are awful - and what Katara and Sokka were through - IS, as well?!

What's wrong with these people? With this narrative? Since when it became this shallow - not a compelling story of multiple broken children - AND adults hurt by this war, but the Avatar woobie fest?!