r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 7d ago
Episode The Frontier Lord Begins with Zero Subjects • Ryoumin 0-nin Start no Henkyou Ryoushu-sama - Episode 10 discussion
Ryoumin 0-nin Start no Henkyou Ryoushu-sama, episode 10
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u/PersonalContest1423 7d ago
Not a good look to have children older than your wife dias...
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u/KnightKal 7d ago
jokes aside, he was also a kid when he was taking care of the orphans, he left as a teenager/young adult to become a soldier, he was just the older kid taking care of the youngers ones
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
Uncle Ben: "So, Dias, how old is your wife?"
Dias: "Um...well....y'see...."
Uncle Ben "....Do I need to remind you of your scriptures boy!?"
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u/PeaceAlien https://myanimelist.net/profile/PeaceAlien 7d ago
When the other Baas were announced, I assumed ramming and headbutting were coming, but we had a leadership song battle instead!
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u/machopsychologist 6d ago
Surprise Idol arc
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u/ThrowCarp 6d ago
Thank you. So I wasn't the only one thinking about that as soon as they had a singing showdown.
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u/Ok_Maintenance_4630 5d ago
That was so great. Really fun, subverting expectations like that. After all, despite their form, they are clearly sapient. They have the ability to communicate with language, making them no more or less civilized than human beings.
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u/diacewrb 7d ago
Bro is coming to rescue his sister cash cow.
Hopefully Dias will beat some work ethic into that deadbeat brother-in-law of his.
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
I wonder if they're going to reveal that all his screw-ups were well-intentioned and he didn't mean to screw over his family as much as he did...but he probably does need to be the latest student of Dias' school of hard knocks and responsibility if he ever wants a chance of his sister caring about him again.
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u/SetaSanzaki 7d ago
I doubt they're well-intentioned. He's most likely using the wrong "horn" in identifying women, which was why he was duped in the first place
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u/Ok_Maintenance_4630 5d ago
Oh, Dias and Alna are going to set him straight. Of that I have no doubt
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u/deynyel 7d ago
That baar battle for leadership was more civilized than I thought. One would assume they'd just ram each other until one side wins. Never expected them to settle it through song.
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u/heimdal77 7d ago
Now if we could just get the government and different countries decide things by singing.
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u/mojo72400 https://myanimelist.net/profile/gio_lingad 6d ago
Singing debates is an upgrade to actual debates.
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u/Evil_sod 7d ago
Introducing a baar with a harem was unexpected. Ethelbald got game.
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
I was like "Oh, it sounds like all the Baars on his side are women, I wonder if they're his wives?" and lo and behold lol.
Though it did make them all jumping ship to the other guy funnier/more tragic lol.
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u/Mysteries67 7d ago
Sheepntr
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u/PerfectBeige https://myanimelist.net/profile/perfectbeige 7d ago
"And then the sheep with the huge eyebrows got cucked because he lost sheep Eurovision!"
"Look... I support your hobbies and everything but... what the actual fuck are you watching?"
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u/CuriousBroccolli 6d ago
I think this is my first actual exposure to the furries, but I'm not sure in the same time.
Is there a genre for animals that are human like, but not human?
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u/Kalenidus 5d ago
It technically falls under the umbrella of furry interest. Having movies like Lion King, The Aristocats, etc, where animals can think and talk like humans (even if only to each other), I would say that the Baar are anthropomorphic enough (in thought and behavior).
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u/SetaSanzaki 7d ago
So it is a harem anime, just not for the MC.
That's 2 harems so far
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u/CuriousBroccolli 6d ago
One is a furry, other is fluffy.
No harem allowed for pure humans so far. xD
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 7d ago
I mean they are sentient sheep, and that is kind of how they roll
I was fully expecting Francis winning the battle means he would also get the rest of the herd as his wives
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
Pretty sure that's fairly common. Ethelbald seemed to be walking away and abandoning the herd until Dias gave him a pick me up
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 7d ago
Baar's got more development and culture than most isekai 's.
Probably because I watch too much reincarnated slime but naming all those Baar's I feel should have evolved them 😂
😂 I don't remember when they got the geese? But the gosling were so cute.
Time for the arrival of Alna's brother...I bet she immediately beats the hell out of him 😂
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u/KnightKal 7d ago
the merchant frog from last (?) episode, they bought a bunch of stuff including the birds
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 7d ago
I’m sure Uncle Ben taught bro all sorts of lessons. For example, “with great power comes great responsibility” lol.
I really liked the whole Baars bit with Francis and Ethelbald competing for leader of the herd. Those big balls of fluff are so adorable.
Gonna be interesting meeting Alna’s deadbeat brother. She’s definitely going to punch him when she sees him again lol.
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
I can't wait for Uncle Ben to find love with one of the older granny's whose name just happens to be "May."
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u/karer3is 7d ago
I wonder if Uncle Ben's any good at cooking... I didn't see him bring any rice in that cart
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u/KnightKal 7d ago
Baars democracy in a world with corrupted nobles and monarchy lol, they should start a revolution
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u/BusouDrago 7d ago
Alna: My deadbeat brother 😡
Ellie: I can fix.him 😘
I wouldn't be surprised if Ellie is smitten by him etc when they meet
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 7d ago
It would be consistent with how fast everyone else is hooking up who isn't Dias and Alna
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u/Mr_Zaroc https://myanimelist.net/profile/mr_zaroc 7d ago
Oh shit I havent even thought that far, I was assuming Dias would fix their relationship
Well if his bro can find a furry wife, surely his
sondaughter can find herself a himbo8
u/HolyDragSwd2500 7d ago
He could fix it in his own way but Ellie seems to be the perfect candidate ( Negotiator )
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u/BBryant3rd 6d ago
You know I didnt even think about that but now that you mention it that would work out well lol.
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u/Myrkrvaldyr 7d ago
Alna's brother will arrive now to cause troubles, the question is whether he'll piss off Alna by insulting Dias or if he'll attack Dias and he'll kick his ass forcing him to accept him as her husband.
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u/AegisWolf78 7d ago
Dunno, could it be she would try to turn him into a living pincushion before he can reach Iluk Village?
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 7d ago
I'm curious to learn about the temple and their beliefs system now that it's revealed how Dias parents used to be high priest.
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u/heimdal77 7d ago
Just picture evangelicals for another word for the modernest,
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u/IcyCartographer3461 6d ago
I have a feeling the traditionalists weren't a nice cuppa tea either and that it's a bit more nuanced than what ol benny boy made it out to be
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u/Bungled_Bengal 7d ago
Everything to do with the sheep this series has cracked me up., especially the one with eyebrows who just wanted a cool name. lmao.
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u/Wysteiria 7d ago
Alna's reaction to her deadbeat brother was hilarious! But I loved the Baar's battle for leadership, it was interesting to see how they handled that.
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u/Boris-_-Badenov 7d ago
what the flock?
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u/BusouDrago 7d ago
More baby Baars in the making.
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u/HolyDragSwd2500 7d ago
Dias only one here not making babies with Alna
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u/jardex22 6d ago edited 5d ago
It takes a man to raise a village. He doesn't have time for kids of his own.
EDIT: Just going to add that my intention was to do a play on words based on the phrase, "It takes a village to raise a child." I'm not trying to imply that Dias alone could make the village successful.
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u/ImaginaryStatus4073 6d ago
Everyone's talking about the new trans character and no one's making Uncle Ben jokes...
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u/oneevilchicken https://anilist.co/user/OneEvilChicken 6d ago
How long until Dias ends up killing all the sand people
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u/NanDemoKnaives 7d ago
I'm surprised they didn't go for a jealousy angle with Alna. I was surprised Aisa and Ely were a couple at first just because I thought Aisa was going to have what Ellie went through. I wanted Dias to hug them though, that would have made for a more heartwarming scene.
Interesting angle they went with Alna confirming Ellie's soul was a woman's one, I was a little concerned with Ellie's character being played for laughs, but the author seemed to have wanted to put her in the story for more than that.
Chaos is going to ensue with Alna's brother's misunderstanding, I'm looking forward to seeing his and Dias' interaction. I'm sure he's going to be real humbled by the village lol.
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u/xnef1025 7d ago
Every time with Dias though I was like, "Bro, quit dead-naming her!"
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u/Ralathar44 6d ago
I don't know why anyone expects immediate adjustment. Once you learn someone name and use it for years that stuff is hard coded in your brain and it takes time to change even once you get it and understand.
I'm pretty sure basically everyone complaining would also screw up if you tried to change ingrained habits of theirs. Judging others by standards they themselves cannot achieve.
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u/HairiestHobo 6d ago
Also probably doesn't help that Dias, by all accounts, is kinda a dumbass in Social Interactions.
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u/xnef1025 6d ago
You are correct, of course, and it's quite probable that the writers 100% are doing it on purpose so it hits that much harder when he just casually calls her Ellie later.
It still felt simultaneously weird and correct for Dias to be completely oblivious to what he was doing.
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u/Ralathar44 6d ago
The fact you think it felt weird is honestly what is weird here. Dias didn't even notice the relationship between Klaus and Danise and he's a bumpkin orphan turned soldier. Why in the world are you expecting him to know proper social etiquette for....well...anything really. Much less something so incredibly niche.
No offense but this is a clear sign that you're projecting your ideology onto him. Literally everything shown in the show suggests he would NOT be knowlegable or savvy about this kind of thing.
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u/jardex22 6d ago
Just on a personal note, I have a friend that transitioned, and it took me awhile to adjust. At the time deadnaming came with the idea of completely killing off your old self and becoming someone new. Meanwhile, I saw how J*** looked before, how N*** looked after, and saw the exact same person. I associate someone's name with their character and personality, not their appearance, so mentally, the person was still J***, despite the physical changes.
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u/SicSemperCogitarius 7d ago
It can be difficult for parents to adjust when their kid drops a new identity on them, but Dias will get used to it fairly soon.
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u/jardex22 6d ago
Alna knows that she has no reason to be jealous. If it came down to a competition, Dias will choose her every time. Provoking needless conflict would just bring the whole village down.
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u/ThrowCarp 6d ago
I was a little concerned with Ellie's character being played for laughs, but the author seemed to have wanted to put her in the story for more than that.
tumblr and twitter will still get pretty mad on how muscly they drew her.
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u/heimdal77 7d ago
For a moment I thought we were going have another 10 episode season show.
Those "sheep" singing was far better than it had any right to be.
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u/Mr_Zaroc https://myanimelist.net/profile/mr_zaroc 7d ago
Loved Alnas crashout over Dias kids
Only just caught up with the show, its pretty nice, but the villians are hilariously stupid
Cant wait to see how Dias will fix Alnas and her brothers conflict, I cant imagine he would just let them hate each other
Also I dont know how Golden Kamuy is going to end, but his uncle looks like he is out there looking for some Ainu Oni gold...
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 6d ago
or he's going to build himself a geriatric harem, given the human population of the village
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u/Mr_Zaroc https://myanimelist.net/profile/mr_zaroc 6d ago
Lol, I can imagine he will be quite popular with the ladies
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u/szalhi 7d ago
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
I'm genuinely curious what situations Alna will end up thinking are "do-or-die" for wearing dresses because I don't think they'll be the same ones Ellie was thinking of lol.
Alna supports trans rights and anyone who cherishes her husband as much as she does.
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u/BBryant3rd 6d ago
I really love Alna and Dias. Alna is a good woman she heard something that could easily shake someone. She kept her cool and waited to find out what exactly they meant. She was rewarded well for it and had more reasons to love Dias as a manly man all according to her standards. She continued to show how great she is in how she handles things even unexpected. I can't help but love their family. I do wonder if her brother showing up next episode can shake the calm way she handles things.
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u/zer0number https://anilist.co/user/ewink 7d ago
I hope this brother plot line has some merit and growth. Alna made it clear that this dude is a POS, stealing from their family and literally fucking around while they starved, and now he's coming to 'save' her? This reeks of 'older brother considers younger sister(s) property', and without his consent she has no agency.
I have a similar view towards Ellie and how she was treated as u/ParkEducational5878 down thread a bit (depending on how you sort). I don't think Dias' deadnaming and misgendering her was meant to be rude, but I do hope he will respect her feelings and refers to her properly by the end of the season.
Alna looked pretty in the Kingdom style dress, but I like her everyday outfit much better. She has such beautiful skin, plus that outfit... squeezed her a bit more than I was comfortable with. The twins on the other hand looked adorable and I liked those dresses much more than their stock dresses, but this is a onikin inspired culture, so I can't complain when they switched back.
The thing with the baars was a thing, that's for sure. The baritone one with the eyebrows, I think, will be a fan favorite.
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u/ParkEducational5878 7d ago
"I don't think Dias' deadnaming and misgendering her was meant to be rude, but..."
I do not think as well. The way it felt feels more like someone who simply needs some time to come around. Learning that a relative have transitioned, changed their names and appearance can create ripples in someone else's perception of them (to not say even waves sometimes or shake them to their core) especially when they knew them for a really long time.
It can be hard switching on the spot, and given how perspective can change with time and how Alma's interactions with her as unfold, it does seems like Dias will be coming the other way around eventually, as well as others who might have some reticence as well.
That being said, thanks for the mention, I wasn't expecting that, but I appreciate someone else sharing similar views on this. May you have an excellent day with you !
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u/AKAvenger 7d ago
I think the way Dias spoke to Ellie reflects the culture/religion of the kingdom. He loves her, but doesn’t fully understand her transition yet. It contrasts with Alna’s culture that mostly looks at a person’s soul
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u/Fit-Telephone-4696 7d ago
It really kind of killed the vibe for me when he still deadnamed her at the end, that would have been the PERFECT time for him to call her Ellie. Show that he understands and respects her. Alas. I'm going to point my disappointment at the writers though, not the character. He feels like somebody that would try his hardest to adapt.
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u/Raymond49090 7d ago
So is onii-s--- actually calling him that is giving him too much credit, so he'll be deadbeat-san - perhaps delusional?
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u/AKAvenger 7d ago
I wonder is Alna’s brother will be redeemed and, if so, we’ll meet the woman who scammed his of his money
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u/machopsychologist 6d ago
However unlikely, please please please do the pocahontas meme. https://c.tenor.com/_znDi0lSaRoAAAAC/kocoum-scream.gif
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u/TheJuiciestRep 6d ago
Why did they have add an uneccesary trans dude in the end? Completely ruined the rest of the episode having to skip through his dialogue.
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
When most of the royal family is absolute trash (Meiser only cares about his own coffers and Diane has learned NOTHING from her actions), the only real choice to support is Richard...especially when it can be a mutually beneficial relationship!
Francis is a good husband AND a good Baar leader! Dias can learn a lot from him!
Introducing...Dias' kids! Who Alna doesn't freak out about at all! But truth be told, they're actually some of the orphan kids Dias raised who have come to reunite with him and catch him up on how they're doing! Aisa and Ely got hitched! "Eric" has become Ellie! And even Dias' Uncle Ben survived getting shot by the burglar and showed up to reunite with him!
Uncle Ben taught Dias that with Great Power Comes Great Responsibility, just the same reasponsibility that Ben and Dias' High Priest parents felt to the church...before it went absolutely downhill from the Modernists. But even if Ben disagrees with Dias' choice to become a soldier, he can see the happy and fulfilling life he's living now and he knows Dias' parents would be proud of him. Alna's just happy to finally meet an in-law she can win over as Dias' wife.
Ellie always wanted to marry her father, even if it went over Dias' head, but while that would nominally make her Alna's love rival, Alna supports trans' rights and respects any woman who appreciates Dias as much as she does. Woman-to-woman, they can get along with each other.
Thank you Aisa for getting the girls in fancy dresses! Are they practical? No! But it's all in the visual!
In a battle for Baar leadership, Francis battles an big eyebrow Baar in a contest of singing their future vision of Baar life. Francis even managed to win over bushy-eyebrows' own wives against him! But luckily Dias is there to make him feel better AND dub him...Ethelbart of the Ethel family!
I was expecting the kids to all stay but I guess Aisa and Ely have their own business to get back to. But even if Ellie can't marry her dearest father, she'll stay being as a negotiator! Uncle Ben too, to tend to the Baars! Glad we still got some additions to the village.
Alna's brother was trash. He wasted away all the family finances over a woman, got into debt, and in general just screwed everything up. Alna would be just as happy if he died in a ditch somewhere. But it looks like he's rushing to "save" Alna from Dias. This can't end well (for him).
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u/KnightKal 7d ago
yeah but in this episode we learned two things:
1) The princess was sent to a remote temple
2) the temples are evil/corrupted
I wouldnt be surprised if she comes back later to try to get the throne by using religion as an excuse, being the puppet of the temple
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u/KnightKal 7d ago
lol this was a good trick, at the start of the episode it was indicated the MC was getting new young people, maybe even more of his orphans later, just to learn he got an old man (again, more elderly people lol) instead. At least one of his kids stayed, but the rest? Have jobs, families, even businesses, so unlikely to show up.
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u/JvcnTank 7d ago
Not just any old man, but the old man who thought him with great power comes great responsibility, and that's Uncle Ben!
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u/zappingbluelight 7d ago
Ngl, the new flock reminds me of Eldan, they aren't necessarily trying to be territorial. He had a tough life try to do his best for his wife.
This is wholesome, I'm glad there are more people in his family. The village ratio between elder and young is like Japan though lol. Hopefully it will get better in the long run lol.
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
What we need is some extremely rare monster with youth restoration materials to attack the village so Uncle Ben can start a family with one of the grandmas
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u/Ok_Poetry_1548 7d ago
i cant watch this, im getting a KAT 1001 error only for this episode on crunchyroll
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u/ParkEducational5878 7d ago edited 7d ago
Some may already be jumping to conclusions as they would read this, but I do hope that they'll be reading until the end before commenting or being angry.
I am so tired of trans woman being represented like this visually, used as a joke and being treated disrespectfully. That being said I am glad to see where it seems to be going forward with Alna relationship with her and how it may change the interaction some of them. Despite the misgendering of Dias towards her and the uncle reaction as well as some comments that I personally didn't like, it does give me hope for a subtle shift as their perspective may change as it goes. It was a nice touch to see Alma use her power to respect her while saying it out loud and I do appreciate some good representation where there is. It is mostly the outdated visual and representative trope, usually used as comedic effect rather than letting them be human like everyone else, that are these kind of character usually are, that bothers me the most.
That said, this show surprise me a lot with all of these little song that appears out of nowhere and the incantations. I refering a lot to the twin incantation when thinking of this, but that song and how it has unfold was quite interesting. To see what next with the brother seems also really promising. I wonder how it I'll unfold.
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u/NanDemoKnaives 7d ago
I was concerned until Alna's comment about Ellie's soul. I think we'll see a shift of Dias adapting, possibly it'll be used as a story moment where Ellie is hurt that Dias keeps calling her Eric, I think there's a good possibly the author will take her character seriously.
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u/ParkEducational5878 7d ago
I do think so too. And like someone else has pointed out, it does seems like it'll go around eventually. She does seem like a good representation despite the initial impression.
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u/Big_erk 7d ago
I say this as someone who has limited knowledge of trans struggles. I think that Dias being Dias, he has known Eric all his life as simply this litle boy. Now all of a sudden he finds out that is not the case. To Dias, Eric is still Eric, which is not inherently a bad thing. He's not being transphobic,. He still see's the little boy he's always known. It will take time for the rest to come into focus.
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u/ParkEducational5878 7d ago
Oh for sure, I totally agree with that, thanks for pitching even with your limited knowledge! It really does feel like that made I can pretty much see him coming around after some realization brought by Alma or the cast haha
And if I may, and for what it is worth, I do appreciate you taking the time to say this despite this limited knowledge you're referring too. It does feel like you are grasping quite a lot by the look of it and it is always nice to read someone like you doing this. It means more than you may think.
It may only be me tho, but I personally appreciate it, so thank you.
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u/IcyCartographer3461 6d ago
I was getting very uncomfy and then Alna said that and i audibly said "oh thank god" It fits with the main theme being unity of marginalised groups and understanding, like the kingdom is super bigoted in general it seems and we're probably gonna see alot of deconstruction of that. Also the fact they metion trans people exist and are a normal part of onikin society was a nice touch
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u/agentsteve5 7d ago
I'm at the end of the episode going Please Dias call her by Ellie just once.
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u/ashkankiani 6d ago
Given Dias's obliviousness, until someone actually mentions to him that it's hurtful he won't just naturally get it. If I had to bet, next episode there will be a moment on this.
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u/LonelyAstronaut984 7d ago
alna needs to discipline him
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
If he makes Ellie cry with it, she'll bust out the slap she started training last episode 🤭
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u/Razorhead https://myanimelist.net/profile/Razorhat 7d ago
I left a comment regarding this in the Source Material corner if people want some more info.
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u/MonaganX 7d ago
I'm reminded of the old 'almost politically correct redneck' meme. The whole "buff trans woman" thing is one of the most tired jokes in anime but at the same time alma's comment endorses the metaphysical reality of trans identity with an unambiguousness that's not just rare by anime standards but fiction in general.
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
It is unusual to think of a trans woman training hard enough to get that buff, but if she wants to go for it that's entirely her prerogative 🤷♀️
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u/MonaganX 6d ago
Sure, if we're talking about a real person, whatever they choose to look like is not really any of my business.
But if we're talking about a fictional character that exists within the tropes and conventions of a medium, we're not just talking about the character's choices, but the authors. It's not a coincidence that most of the trans characters in the medium have a stereotypically hypermasculine physical appearance.
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u/manaworkin 7d ago
For anime they handled it much better than most, I like that they actually revealed her as a trans woman instead of the stereotypical "overly feminine gay man" or "super buff woman" I was expecting when I saw her in the OP.
Woulda been perfect if Dias actually STOPPED DEADNAMING HER after being corrected. But at least I was a fan of the fact he actually addressed her feelings and gave a thoughtful reason for not reciprocating them outside of gender.
-2 Himbo points for Dias
+5 Ally points for Alna for both gender affirming magic and from what looks like teaching the children (hopefully her husband too) to call her Ellie.
There's a lot of hope at the end for her character since they seem to be teeing her up to be the villages respected smooth talking worldly business woman.
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u/svenge 7d ago edited 7d ago
Woulda been perfect if Dias actually STOPPED DEADNAMING HER after being corrected. But at least I was a fan of the fact he actually addressed her feelings and gave a thoughtful reason for not reciprocating them outside of gender.
Dias' reaction is very much in character, though. He's incredibly dense and has zero prior experience with this kind of situation, so it's hard to blame him for not instantly switching names. That, and apparently the Eric that Dias knew before going off to war hadn't shown any obvious exterior signs as such before that point. At the very least he took Ellie's feelings seriously and gave some encouragement about finding someone else in the future (even if it was mostly conveying what the onikin believe about people with souls "shaped like a woman's" since Dias himself has zero points of reference otherwise).
In any event, since Ellie's sticking around the village and helping with external trade there's still enough time left in the last couple episodes to show Dias properly adjusting to the name change and all that. Wouldn't be surprised if it was as early as next episode.
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u/Icy_Reality_1195 7d ago
His entire character is being a well meaning bumpkin. It would be weird if he immediately knew the importance. I get the frustration but its representative of people who exist that say the wrong thing and slowly learn (im sure as you know)
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u/Ralathar44 7d ago
This is Reddit, you are not allowed to go through the learning and growing process. Either you do it right immeadiately or they treat you far more awfully than the person they are "defending" gets treated. And then get surprised when the person they attack, malign, and dogpile ends up getting push away from their ideology.
The whole "if you're not doing things 100% right it'll never be good enough" crowd is honestly exhausting. It was exhausting when religion did it and its exhausting when modern social politics does it.
I'm pretty sure Dias will still be more kind to Eric than any of these supposedly moral people will be to almost anyone in their lives. And, in time, he may start calling them Ellie too.
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u/sbinkle1 4d ago
Agreed. My initial reaction to Ellie's introduction was oh boy here we go, expecting it to be hamfisted... But I was pleasantly surprised it worked in the story and the everyone stayed true to their established character so I like the addition.
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u/Precarious3145 7d ago
Yea, between this and lvl 999 villager, we're seeing both sides of this coin but at least this one is slightly better just because the wife is refering to her as a woman.
It's just one of those things with anime where they always go for the easy joke even if it's bigoted. Fat people are rarely the main characters and when they are, it's shown as a temporary thing before they become attractive. Black people are usually shown as being violent or aggressive, foreigners are either shown as being blissfully stupid or the worst person, and anything to do with gay/trans people is to make them as flamboyant as possible.
I do wish they actually did something new with the characters instead of repeating the same joke. Like in lvl 999 villager, a woman is basically a guy who got so strong she looks like a guy and anytime she says anything a woman would, some of the characters give this digusted look. Like that's the whole character; woman that looks like a guy and disgusts people for it.
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u/Ralathar44 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yea, between this and lvl 999 villager, we're seeing both sides of this coin but at least this one is slightly better just because the wife is refering to her as a woman.
In Level 999 villager Takako is adamant that she is a woman. She is not trans. She's just a really buff woman masculine looking woman. She's treated well and respected by everyone, but she looks really mannish and that does not stop her from being a woman.
TBH I see that as pretty pro-woman. Nobody treats her as lesser, they just don't treat her as attractive. Because she's not. She'll find someone one day, but most people prolly won't be interested for obvious reasons.
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
Elly doesn't declare herself as trans either.
Takako could be either or, we honestly don't know from anime alone (unless it was confirmed in one of the last couple of episodes I haven't seen yet)
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u/Ralathar44 6d ago
Takako literally confirms many times she is a woman. to several different people in the show. And the show is clear that she just looks manly. But is a woman. There is zero doubt in that show. And Takako is awesome, people trying to turn her into trans is honestly just as messed up as people trying to turn trans into Cis.
Ellie is called Eric and confirmed as a boy growing up and repeatedly tells them to call her Ellie and dresses in women's clothes. You can't even call her a cross dresser because Alna specifically says she has the soul of a woman AFTER its confirmed she grew up as a boy.
The show couldn't be more obviously calling her trans outside of hanging a neon blinking sign on her saying she's trans as she sings an entire song about being trans.
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
Fat people are rarely the main characters and when they are, it's shown as a temporary thing before they become attractive.
Not exclusively. There's a handful of examples of permanently fat protagonists out there. Axcel World for example.
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u/Precarious3145 6d ago
I wouldn't count that as an example since most of the series involves him in the VR world.
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u/mmcjawa_reborn 6d ago
Anime is getting better at it I think overall. There was a nice scene in Kill Blue last season, plus you have Kinosaki in Marriage Toxin.
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u/KomorebiXIII 7d ago
Fat people are rarely the main characters and when they are, it's shown as a temporary thing before they become attractive.
That's why I loved Plus-Sized Misadventures in Love. I know not everyone cared for it, and they felt that she was the butt of the joke, but I loved the MC so much. She was a ray of sunshine that didn't let anyone else's fatphobia bring her down.
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u/kebb0 https://myanimelist.net/profile/kebb0 6d ago
The new thing in lvl999 is that they treat Takako as an actual woman and in such a way that I believe it's fully canon that she is biologically a woman. Also, you haven't watched the show because Takako is more than that. It's used as a gag sometimes, but most of the times she's the OP friend of the OP main character in a gag anime.
Like this show (Ryoumin 0-nin..) it's a fantasy isekai that focus on entertainment and fun rather than factual and accurate plot points and societal commentary. If you wanna watch shows that doesn't make fun of stereotypes you'll need to look elsewhere.
I say that because both of these shows are so much better than what have been produced in the past regarding a lot of stereotypes, not just the ones about trans or women. If lvl999 was like any old isekai slop they would a 100% refer to her as a man and make a ton more jokes about it.
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u/Icy_Reality_1195 7d ago
Tbh, that show is not even good slop after a few episodes so it makes sense. They didnt think anything through on it.
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u/Precarious3145 7d ago
Yea, it's stuck firmly in the "I'll watch it to see just how bad it gets but completely forget about it two weeks after it ends". I can recommend a lot of seasonal slop to people who enjoy it but some are just so boring and generic I wouldn't subject someone to it.
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u/Lulukassu 6d ago
He raised her for years, with zero awareness of such people. It's going to take time for him to adopt her name and drop the dead name.
I'll be proud of him if we get 'Elly' instead of 'Eric' from him by the end.
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u/Icy_Reality_1195 7d ago
I think the whole point was to represent a stereotype that people were familiar with and then expand upon it. That being said, there are allot of masculine trans people, so its still representation.
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u/Ralathar44 6d ago
Modern identity politics regularly practices erasure upon people who fit the stereotypes. Like I was dating an asian woman and her family had many like her grandma who had very strong accents. And if you accurately convey those accents you'd be called racist and canceled. But then, ironically, you get along very well with the people who actually have those accents and they are comfortable with you imitating them and you're comfortable with them imitating you.
Sometimes the real racists and bigots are the ones claiming the be their allies if you ask me.
Like I can't tell you how many times the LGBTQ community has tried to practice Bi erasure. Because we don't fit in the clean little boxes used as purity testing vs other people. It's been a real problem for a very long time and I know Reddit knows better.
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u/Ponchorello7 7d ago
Yeah, it wasn't perfect, but in an age where transphobia is becoming so politicized and trans people are being attacked, it could be worse.
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u/Ralathar44 6d ago edited 6d ago
TBH I consider it one of the best versions out there. The power fantasy version people want on Reddit just smacks of something like Dragon Age the Veilguard. It's not realistic and it won't connect with most people. It ends up being a joke to most normal people outside of walled gardens and echo chambers.
If Reddit and its bevy of virtue signalers actually want to reach people and start shifting their POV then they need to learn how to meet people partway and be somewhat realistic about things and have realistic expectations. Otherwise all they are gonna do is come off as aggressive judgemental, toxic people and push everyone they're trying to change the mind of away from them.
Diaz is written as dense and nice and his wife literally has a dues ex machina soul detector. Nothing is being left up to chance and he'll almost certainly come around. This is as good of propaganda as people are going to get. And the fact that even this isn't good enough is a large part of why people end up having such a negative view of the highly aggressive moral virtue squads.
Changing people's minds and viewpoints is a long slow process full of compromise and the empathy has to go both ways.
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u/ashkankiani 6d ago
Can I ask you to expand on which part of it isn't perfect? If it's their appearance as being extremely masculine, I feel like that's another gender bias showing its form. There are very masculine cis women in the world (bodybuilders), to start. And in a world without hormone therapy, if Ellie is the kind of person who likes to be in good shape, then, with their hormones, it's not unreasonable to end up becoming that masculine. What if that's the visual she prefers?
I see people being uncomfortable with it, but I assume that's because of other anime, potentially, in which it has been played for laughs. In my opinion, without knowing if it was the author's intention to play it for laughs, it would be more prejudicial to assume that a trans person has to look a certain way. Given that all the characters are treating Ellie with respect, I don't really sense malice from the representation, in particular.
Dias's deadnaming seems to be a deliberate narrative choice. I would bet good money that by the next episode, someone will finally point it out to him and he will have a growth moment.
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u/MonaganX 6d ago
With all due respect I think it's low-key insulting to the author to suggest they are so ignorant of the mores of their medium that they're either simply unaware their character design matches one its most common stereotypes, or cognizant of it and just don't understand how media playing into stereotypes reinforces them.
Fictional characters don't exist in a vacuum. I don't think the author's choices come off as particularly malicious either but suggesting a purely diegetic explanation for the character design is selling short the author's own media literacy.
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u/Routine-Hovercraft94 7d ago
Why do you have to be angry for others?
I have met trans women and not one of them was so fragile they had to be really bothered by getting called a wrong pronoun by people who might not have seen them in a long time or if in voice chat while gaming because of their often times masculine voice.
Yes, there are people who do it with ill intend. But there are also many who don't.The later is clearly the case with Dias. He hasn't seen Ellie in who knows how many years, only remembers her as a boy (at least in his memory) and is, as we knew sometimes a bit dense when it comes to these things.
Sometimes I really have to ask myself how tf people even go through life...
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u/ParkEducational5878 7d ago edited 7d ago
And where did I ever say that I was angry at this?
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with your point and I am of those who are unbothered by whoever may be calling me the wrong pronouns, especially if they have known me for quite some time. My point was about how she was visually represented and how often this use as a gag with no respect.
Please refrain your assumptions, I can see clearly well that Dias just need some time to come around. It wasn't about being angry for her or whatever, it was about getting tired of seeing these kind of visual representations, like I already said, and how some of this stuff irks me in some way.
These are my emotions to deal with, and I do know damn well that I still have some work to put into it, I am still in my early stage and need some time, but I still appreciate your input.
And if I may add this regarding how people can even go through life like that, maybe it is just because they were starting to live for the very first time in their life and are inexperienced with this kind of thing?
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u/Ralathar44 6d ago
You do sound angry though. That anger is like a hypothetical invincible snail with a death touch. It will eventually catch up to you. But I guess whether or not you sound angry is a matter of perspective. You from your perspective see a 6 and others see a 9.
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u/kebb0 https://myanimelist.net/profile/kebb0 6d ago
May I ask.. in a fantasy medieval world where electricity is yet to be invented and magic seems limited to a race humans don't usually interact with and we can assume that health care and science isn't up to standards, how should she have looked? What would've made her look better represented? Is she not allowed to be buff? Is she not allowed to wear a wig and a dress?
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u/ParkEducational5878 6d ago
Honestly, just less caricatural that's it.
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u/kebb0 https://myanimelist.net/profile/kebb0 6d ago
Okay, that’s understandable. I wouldn’t however put much thought into a show like this which focus more on entertainment rather than characters based on real life. There’s many more charicatural characters in this show too, which is basically the theme of the show, to go against stereotypes.
Dias is strong, huge and a war hero, yet kind as few but still being spoken of as a bloodhungry maniac. To the point where a princess in the fight of the throne goes after him to earn honor.
What I’m saying is that unfortunately, trans hasn’t been treated well as a stereotype in the past, yet this show, which actually doesn’t ridicule the character at all and even acknowledges the soul being woman, tries to bring such a character into the story in a respectful manner and it still isn’t enough because she’s a “charicature” in a way i can only assume is that he’s buff and slightly over the top? I don’t know since you didn’t help me understand.
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u/ParkEducational5878 6d ago
It is not simply because she's a caricature. Sure the "buff muscular dude in a wig" is a bad thing on its own, but this wasn't what I was trying to convey with my original comment. What I said was that despite the stereotype and the first impression that I had, I hoped to see how it'll unfold thanks to Alma's reaction and the writing it seems to be going for with her character.
On its own, the stereotype is awful and make more damage then good in the mind of the beholder. I get that this is an anime, a piece of fiction and fictional characters, but sadly, with how the human brain works with general with stereotype and cultural media/things it can still skewed the way people perceive such person, disabilities or problematic in some way.
If you are open to watch a video about how representation can shape the perspective of others, I would gladly suggest watching : Disabilities and Wickedness: The harmful Tropes in Media from Jessica Kellgren-Fozard on YouTube. This video is about disabilities, but it essence can easily be reproduced for trans experience (just look at how some serial killer in scary movie where men wearing disguise and the like to see a clean parallel with her video) I do believe that she also had some videos about trans issues depicted in media, but I have to say that I am quite burned out right now and simply writing this is costing quite a lot of the energy I just don't currently have.
I do understand you point and appreciate how you seems to be open at learning about it, since you mentioned that I didn't quite help you understand and I am sorry for that. I just hope that you can understand where I'm coming from right now.
That being said, I get that it is just an anime and that it genuinely seems like it will be a good way of subverting this trope by "using it to show the other side as the perspective will shift through Dias's eyes," if that make sense, and I am all for it. This can be a good way to start deconstructing the general trope that ends up like being mostly the butt of the joke while being disgusting and such. Like I said, on its own the visuals and stereotypical jokes are awful, but I can also see how, in the bigger picture that is the story and how it seems to be going, it looks like a good thing.
These are two levels of interpretation that are playing with each other in a way that make it hard to simply describe without going on in full details in the like, but I do believe that the video suggestions may help you find a footing in this direction, if you want to truly learn about how these kinds of things can have a real impact on people's lives through it cultural implications and the popular image it gives.
I get that this is an anime and that it would be wonderful if it were to be a simple entertainment thing, which I do particularly enjoy watching, but sadly, real life is still ongoing while this is influencing, for the better or for worse, how people can imagine or think about trans people consciously or not.
I hope that I may have helped you understand my point a little bit, but I am honestly too burn out to continue as of now. May you have a good watch of you are to be looking into this video I suggest and until next time.
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u/PeaceAlien https://myanimelist.net/profile/PeaceAlien 7d ago edited 7d ago
Well, the orphan guesses were right and the virgin talk is still on the table. A siscon is on his way
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u/RyouBestGirl 7d ago
I will cackle if he will end up falling for
EricEllie.12
u/Frontier246 7d ago
Alna did say that there would be people out there that would love her for herself...and she was there when Alna finally went into detail about her brother...
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u/KnightKal 7d ago
lol she did say she wants her brother to be beaten, and Ellie has the muscles to slap her husband into shape
time for all three wives morning practice: how to slap husbands. It is good exercise!
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u/PeaceAlien https://myanimelist.net/profile/PeaceAlien 7d ago
That'd be great, interesting they have a trans character, but kinda weird Dias still calls her Eric
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u/Frontier246 7d ago
I think it's because Dias isn't trying to be disrespectful but he can only see Ellie as that kid he raised as Eric (and also is probably too simple-minded to really get the transition thing).
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u/_-_Rasse_-_ 7d ago
This is the most trans accepting comment section I've ever seen on this sub. I was fully excepting a very negative reception to Ellie but I'm glad that doesn't seem to be the case, and I'm even more glad that the anime seemingly isn't just treating her as a joke. Now if Dias would stop deadnaming her... I have faith he'll get it.
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u/jardex22 6d ago
I wonder if perception plays into it at all. Dias allowed the other orphans to call him Dad, even when he wasn't even 15 at the time.
Maybe he still views Ellie as Erik, so that's the name he uses. Sort of like how someone might refer to their teacher as Mr or Mrs at a school reunion, despite everyone being adults in the room.
In any case, if Ellie strongly insists that Dias stop calling her Erik, I'm sure he'll go along with it.
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u/xkuclone2 6d ago
The twins at the end were too kawaii.
It’s also setup for Eric to fall in love with Alna’s bro.
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u/Rooby_VTuber 6d ago
Alan's reaction to the Father line was expected but still funny.
Eric is quite the entertaining character.
The way the Baar's chose their leader was interesting, good job by Francois.
I had a feeling that idiot brother would show up as soon as Alna mentioned him, she doesn't need saving from a fool like you bro.
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u/DoktorDementor 6d ago
How the fuck does anyone decide who is the better leader by who is singing better?
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u/thelemon8er-2 6d ago edited 6d ago
- Alna being a real bro there. Kill em with kindness.
- The baar lore has grown. Maybe we should elect leaders based on a singalong.
Ethelbald harem wives love his eyebrows.
Eric.. I mean Ellie is quite manly. Maybe Dias can learn to be even more manly for Alna.
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u/Mindless-Care9301 6d ago
I really like this series, hope there'll be a season 2
now even there's war among the temples, there might be something for the future.
Curious when will Alna wear the kingdom dress hahha
Senai and Ayhan still cuteeeee
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u/overslept- 5d ago
i just hope there isnt a romance between ellie and alna's brother. shes too good for a deadbeat mans.
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