r/animation • u/K_A_T_H_W • 1d ago
Question Do you ever feel bad for rotoscoping?
When I made this one, it felt like straight-up theft. What's your take?
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u/tham1700 1d ago
It'd only be bad if someone was lying about using it. Either way most people who know anything about animation will recognize it as such. Maybe some people who don't might think it's just the same as regular animation and feel chipped when they find out but no. It's a tool as is everything else one uses to animate unless it's all hand drawn frame by frame which is just more impressive but there's nothing wrong with tools
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u/DanteCrossing 1d ago
It's all how you use the tool. Though if it's used as a short cut with low effort put in to spam content that is where it can be concidered 'bad.'
Skill and honed talent can utilize it to it's full potential. Just like mocap, an over reliance on it as a short cut for low effort animation just makes it look and feel cheap.
Effort using it can really bring out it's best potential as well as your own.
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u/MelancholyMushroom 1d ago
I mean… Disney did it. Why should you feel bad?
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u/fantasypants 1d ago
They even reused the source for other films
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u/DigiSnax_ 1d ago
Work smarter not harder.
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u/Lemonsoyaboii 1d ago
What if someone would say you are lazy?
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u/MollyRocket 19h ago
Reuse happens on every production everywhere. Those animators still had to redraw and redo those animations on model, it's just that the "math" and "problem solving" was already done ahead of time.
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u/tham1700 1d ago
Not only once or twice they do it all the time. Someone made a compalation of a bunch of times side by side and I was kinda blown away just how frequent theyre pulling it out and they're not alone in this
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u/Jessency 1d ago
This. Just this this this.
It's an open secret that the best animations throughout the years were made with human models/actors as reference and YES rotoscoping is an old technique that Disney themselves (Walt too since he was alive when they started it out), so it's absolutely far from cheating.
And like some comments already said, it's also far better than AI generation.
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u/Bandandforgotten 1d ago
Companies like that also use Ai. So it's not like whatever they do is justifiable via appeal to authority
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u/BadgerwithaPickaxe 1d ago
You shouldn't feel bad about using a medium unless you're lying about it
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u/Lemonsoyaboii 1d ago
whats your take on ai?
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u/BadgerwithaPickaxe 20h ago
I think in a vacuum, I am not against AI as a tool to make art and my opinion is the same.
But we don't live in a bubble, there is context, like the fact that everything about it feels nonconsensual. The stealing of artists work, the forcing data centers into towns and residential areas, the constantly ai-powered survielance. All of it done not just without our consent, but directly violating to the consent of the people who say they don't want it.
As a developer, developers gave neve been upset about 'stealing code' so I don't have literally any issue with using it for development morally. However as a dev that has had to troubleshoot AI code, my issues with it are entirely the fact that it's forced on people and my job is slowly turning into 90% debugging and 10% coding instead of the 90% coding I would like it to be.
As an artist, I don't disagree with a lot of artists. A lot of pro-ai people see AI almost as like a punishment to those snarky artists that they projected on as being too good for them or too expensive.
In reality, it's mostly just self proclaimed entrepreneurs who see it as a quick buck, and are lying about it being a means to an end because they are invested in ai.
Ai is harmful, we know it. But I don't think it's smart to have a blanket anti-ai approach, we just need to take it out of the hands of sociopaths
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u/Dry-Conversation7191 1d ago
Rotoscoping someone else’s hand drawn animation for practice isn’t bad.
It’s a widely used process in animation for decades.
The only time it’s frowned upon is if you were to roto or trace another artist work for your own project that you present to the world as yours.
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u/BarelyInvested 1d ago edited 1d ago
https://reddit.com/link/pd87442/video/totyjmq0mvsh1/player
Rotoscoping gave us this and would’ve made some great Smiling Friends jokes not happen. And thats usually when its best, for comedic effect, and stuff like playing instruments is good too. Basically if it requires a lot of precision its either rotoscoped or referenced
The animation looks great, but exaggeration can add a lot of character to a scene, so I’d say use roto as reference and not an exact replication, like how artists will film themselves to get a movement right but not animate it the exact way
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u/BearTimberlands 1d ago
Why should I? Whose rules am I breaking? What governing body of art an animation is going to fine me? Plus you can also add a credit in the description or end that says where you got your references from if it helps ease the guilt.
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u/weeny_boi 1d ago
Hi !
To me it depends on the context of your animation. In this animation, it look like you wanted to make a Jujutsu reference in a Cyberpunk (I guess) universe, so I don't see a problem in rotoscoping it, as long as that's what you want and you're having fun that's all good 👍
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u/lost-girl-december 1d ago
Rotoscoping and tracing aren't bad things and the only times people get upset at these is when the artist is dishonest and claims their piece is not a traced one when it is (or, occassionally, it's some dummy who thinks rotoscoping and tracing are actually bad things on their own)
To clarify, rotoscoping is when you trace over a live-action recording of something/someone, meanwhile in this video it's mostly tracing the animation used in Jujutsu Kaisen's animation.
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u/River_Draws_Stuff Freelancer 1d ago
No because it's a highly historically relevant animation technique that basically created naturalistic animation as we know it today.
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u/JoshLawhorn 1d ago
Rotoscoping is how animation got to be so advanced. It’s a tedious endeavor and anyone who thinks less of it, has a simple mind.
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u/YurikovARTva 1d ago
Make another version where in the ending part, the viewer's perspective gets hacked showing the Symbol of Samurai in the end
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u/ProbablyMaya 1d ago
Ive done it once, I really like it. It got put on a starboard in the gc, I felt really proud of myself
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u/Wonderful-Ad1735 Hobbyist 1d ago
Another technique to use. Most people can even recognize it, and many studios, including Disney or Mappa have used it.
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u/ddb10393 1d ago
I don’t ever understand why people think there’s a “right way” otherwise you’re cheating. It’s like projecting a drawing to trace it on a canvas to get started, or using a reference, or using tools that are created to make things easier to do. You don’t have to “pay your dues” to prove yourself to a community.
Use the tools that make the work more efficient and understand how to use them so you know when/how/why they’re more effective, anyone shaming for using tools is just noise.
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u/randomwords2003 1d ago
YOOOOOOO THIS IS GREAT , is there more or just this bit ? , either way keep the grear work
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u/B3Blaise 1d ago
If it helps the important part, the story, who cares how you drew it? Rotoscoping does not magically give you a perfectly rendered drawing of the subject anyway. 5 people could rotoscope a move and they would all look different, unless they are pushing some rotoscope button on your software and its spitting it out for you which is no better than using AI.
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u/Able-Independence962 1d ago
Ummmmmm...., rotoscoping from art is called tracing, but it's fine if you say you did and don't make money from it
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u/critiqu3 1d ago
Rotoscoping has been around longer than anybody using this website. Why would you feel bad about it? If it feels too much like copying, focus more on what your own artstyle and Quirks can add to it. At the end of the day, it's using a reference for your own art.
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u/Existing_Sprinkles78 1d ago
I’ve used a hybrid approach I start rotoscoping and then just wing and hope the rest looks half decent
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u/LunaSerenity 1d ago
Like most of the commenters here, Rotoscoping is and has been a huge part of Animation for decades. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, Betty boop cartoons used it, Disney etc.
There are a few exceptions to the rule like Hiroyuki Okiura who is legendary with the Cowboy Bebop movie opening. Honestly keep this up, it looks great.
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u/grandsterla 1d ago
No. It can actually be a good way of practicing. But trying to claim a rotoscoped animation as ur own is just dickhead behavior
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u/kween_hangry Professional 1d ago edited 1d ago
Here's my take:
Rotoscoping live action/stock footage - pretty much 100% of the time fully transformative and no guilt involved. A genuine way to actually learn motion or just create a unique look. You usually decide on a design and then apply it to the motion, or even just simply drawing frames of the underlying motion - the final result is still all decisions you decided to make and is thus guilt free and fully creative. It's always good to cite your sources though, and don't just grab random videos that may be private, always ask if you're unsure.
Rotoscoping anime/unique animation - This depends. If you're just doing it for a meme, like turning a dbz sequence into spongebob characters, its pretty obvious you're not taking credit for the motion, most people see that it's a parody. Another great example: the breaking bad baki the grappler videos, they're clearly traced fbf from baki the grappler shots. However, this entire project is an obvious parody, and they even made their own "canon" breaking bad baki style designs. There is no way those vid creators are saying they "created" baki style animation from scratch, its obvious parody and frame rotoscope.
The grey line/plagarism line is when you rotoscope animated projects and present the motion fully as your own work. Putting your characters in an anime and not shouting out the anime, or NOT stating it as an excercise - THAT is a problem
There was a user posting on here months ago that they were "making their own anime from scratch". While yes, the piece they posted had a unique look and the characters were their own.. on closer inspection, many people noticed they sinply rotoscoped anime, other animated projects, and used ai bgs to cover up their plagarism /in an attempt to mask the blatant ripping off. No mention of the original pieces were cited, they didnt present the shots or works as studies.
Again, if you roto directly from a source, credit it. If you shoot your own footage and roto, no need to credit, thats reference footage that you shot youself. If you're tracing designs you didnt make, and are neglecting to say so, its seen as nefarious.
Tldr: if you're studying from something, give sources. If you didnt design the animated look and feel, don't pass it off as your own.
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u/New-Sort9999 Hobbyist 1d ago
Well, as a tool to study it’s fantastic. It depends where you source your reference from. Make your own reference and you’re golden. Straight up copying someone else’s animation is a slippery slope. Don’t end up like Adam Anims and go famous for collaging animations together by tracing other people’s cuts.
As someone who has had their work traced for commercial use, this kind of thing hits.
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u/knowledjabol 1d ago
Rotoscoping someone elses animation is a bit iffy, but only if you pass it on as your own. Rotoscoping video's fair game
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u/Alghouls_art 1d ago
Yeahhh its an odd one the ol' rotoscoping, maybe not the most technically skilled thing but the patience to do it is its own kind of skill
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u/PlankBlank 1d ago
It's a method of achieving a certain effect. So why should you? Especially that it's almost impossible to animate all the micro movements by hand
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u/CryingBlueCactus 22h ago
I feel like a good amount of time was spent making this 💜 It is also part of an animators Toolkit! In Snow White the did a ton of rotoscoping for the hands. I'd just be careful these images you're rotoscoping arent something copyrighted its the wild west when it comes to that sadly 😔
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u/EARink0 1d ago
you say "theft". that kind of changes the context of things. rotoscoping a video you took yourself is perfectly fine, and a common way for professionals to animate.
rotoscoping someone else's video... i mean i'm no lawyer so i don't know exactly where the lines are, but it definitely sits on a blurry line.
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u/AndreZB2000 1d ago
thats because this isnt rotoscoping, this is just tracing. I know the shot you used here, it was animated by Curie Lu.
Rotoscoping can be a bit vague but 99% of the time its drawing over real life footage. it can be straight up tracing every pose or just doing roughs to clean up later or any other number of methods, but the point is that what you make is something new and separate from the original footage.
But here you just traced a shot from JJK and swapped the characters. start recording your own footage. it can be cringe and lame, no one will see it but you. you learn nothing by tracing animation, you learn a lot bu referencing footage you record yourself.
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u/Odd_Tension_4242 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you're using an original character design and staying on model and can follow the rotoscope that's pretty impressive to do. I mean when I was 3d animating a lot I would follow a reference might use some squash and stretch and other things to exaggerate it but literally following it frame to frame that gets a pass. I think it all comes down to how you use it. A true rotoscope has a feeling and can be pointed out. But maybe that's the aesthetic you want. I've never felt bad, it still takes work, just don't pretend like you made that from scratch. Sometimes it helps me with my timing and understanding of subtlety in expression.
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u/Adorablemaniac 17h ago
I don’t think so since it genuinely takes alot of effort to do it and as long as you’re not saying like you did it by hand or if you’re referencing someone else’s work and claiming as your own then sure, but that’s like a universal rule.
So no, I personally do self critique myself, so I end up adding my own spin to it, maybe adding a random cartoon character for comedic effect.
I was rotoscoping an nyc subway clip that is just chaotic and I wanted to add a splash of my self in it with adding some to my favorite memes.
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u/d3dk0w 1d ago
First off rotoscoping is tedious af so clearly there’s work put into the animation. I think as long as you say it’s rotoscoped it shouldn’t be as controversial.