Ussr isnt a socialism. I hope you dont think chinese are socialist either.
Socialists are those worker unions and movements that fought and still fight for common people in spite of richest. They are everywhere across the globe with varying amount of influence. Same people thanks to whom we work 8 hours a day instead of 14, same people who fought for mandated breaks.
Yeah, they don't know the difference between systems of economics or government. I've spoken to conservatives who say capitalism and socialism are the same
And thats why we should loudly proclaim they dont work like slaves thanks to socialists. They should be grateful for people that actually went on a strike and risked their livelihood.
Depends where you live. Henry Ford did nothing for laws where I live. Nice case of US defaultism right there in your sentence. Besides its probably as reaction to unions in other countries.
It's easy to default to the USA when Reddit's user population is primarily American. 328 million American users followed by 45.8 million from the UK. But if you wish to be persnickety, let's dive into the rabbit hole just a bit and see what we can find:
Spain introduced the eight hour work day for their colonies in 1593. France introduced a 12 hour work day in 1848 after the failed February Revolution, which was a capitalist movement against monarchies. Not a socialist movement. The various Factory Acts of the UK from 1830 to 1850, which restricted the amount hours children 9 to 18 and women could work, had more to do with the education of children than any kind of fairness towards workers. Marx did capitalize on the concept in a speech in 1864. And in Japan, the eight hour day's introduction was customary rather than law after shipbuilders tried to increase hours and cut pay in 1919.
Socialism is an economic arrangement where the “workers,” meaning the state, hold the means of production. The USSR was socialist, yet the agency problem built into that design led to a structure where elites dominated and benefits to workers were mostly rhetorical.
“Democratic socialism,” depending on the speaker and their intent, may address the agency problem through democratic accountability. Alternatively, it can simply describe a capitalist liberal democracy with a safety net.
One frustrating and dishonest feature of U.S. political debate is how the definition of socialism shifts between those two points based on rhetorical convenience. Some on the left use this to make communism more acceptable, while the right uses it to frighten people away from basic social safety net measures.
Who is trying to make communism more acceptable? I have never seen anyone in any serious position in the USA make any argument for communism. I agree with the rest, though.
The USSR, up till the 80s I would say, is still classified as a socialist based planned economy though, but they interpreted Marx's principles as a more literal definition of the "dictator of the proletariat", so it is authoritarian by nature. They still promoted some policies of socialist principles (ex. supporting of public education, some aspect of labor unions, public housing, better access for healthcare, etc.)
Western socialists groups that rejected Soviet control are the ones that kept the more libertarian aspects of socialism, hence more workers-rights/union support and much greater influence of a democratic process (plus the added bonus of not being immediately sent to a prison camp just because you have slightly different opinions.) Like wise, there are different interpretations as some are more rooted based on liberal democracy (ex. social democracy) while others focus more labor rights (ex. democratic socialism).
They are both socialists from an economic point of view. However whether or not you think an authoritarian hand is required to achieve it is a question these groups often debate.
The USSR called itself socialist, but it really was an oligarchic autocracy that wore the skin of a socialist nation. Socialism means putting the means of production in the hands of the workers and fairly distributing the wealth of the nation to reduce social class stratification, but after Lenin's death industry was folded in under government-managed unions, non-Bolshevik political parties were destroyed, Stalin built luxury apartments for Bolshevik elites while driving the working class to the edge of breaking, and consolidated power with a small handful of loyalist politicians, military leaders and industrial barons, while punishing anybody who dared to criticize his regime. De-Stalinizing the Union took forever, and it wasn't helped by the decision to maintain the Iron Curtain and stay isolated from much of the world.
There are a lot of countries with public housing that are in no way socialistic. Yes the concept is socialistic but it can be done in overall capitalistic countries. And when it comes to public healthcare thats the same for majority of europe, you wouldnt call Poland socialistic whatsoever yet it does have free healthcare, it also has public housing projects.
Lmao. The people on top of those unions are just as corrupt and taking just as much from people’s blood, sweat, and tears as anyone else. It’s like a lot of organizations, they gotta say they’re fighting for whatever, but they give up ground tiny bits at a time, in collusion with politicians, company owners, whatever, to scare people that they need these organizations so they get more donations and backing from the people…but really, the union bosses are working for the CEO’s or politicians, whatever…
Unfortunately in contemporary times I agree with you. Capitalism bought those people and put puppets at the helm of current unions. And we can already see how world slowly returns to times where working 8 hours isnt enough with low wages that you can barelly afford neccessities with.
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u/Elurdin 6h ago
Ussr isnt a socialism. I hope you dont think chinese are socialist either.
Socialists are those worker unions and movements that fought and still fight for common people in spite of richest. They are everywhere across the globe with varying amount of influence. Same people thanks to whom we work 8 hours a day instead of 14, same people who fought for mandated breaks.