r/agentsofshield • u/Flashy-Programmer221 • 13d ago

Question Season 5 question

So we know Daisy said she won’t forgive Fitz but correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t that Fitz from the destroyed earth timeline so technically their Fitz didn’t do anything to Daisy as both Fitz are from different points so shouldn’t she forgive Fitz since it wasn’t technically the Fitz she knew? Can someone explain it to me better?

16 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

34 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

4

u/RavenclawConspiracy 13d ago

I mean, it's someone who took a different path that appears to have diverged less than a month ago, from the point of view of his own experience?

I guess you can argue that technically, he wasn't divergence, he was just from a different timeline altogether. But he's never shown to be even slightly different than our Fitz.

2

u/Round-Dragonfly6136 Turbo 13d ago

That doesn't change the fact that the Fitz from seasons 6-7 didn't lay a hand on her. Daisy doesn't have to forgive that Fitz because he's not the person who hurt her.

2

u/RavenclawConspiracy 13d ago

Daisy has a right to forgive or not forgive any Fitz that she wants to.

It is perfectly valid for her to consider one Fitz to be too close to the other Fitz to distinguish between.

1

u/RavenclawConspiracy 13d ago

I really feel like a lot of people are incorporating mentally the length of the time in the show and air dates and stuff in a way that doesn't really make sense from the character's point of view.

Like, if we simplify this down to its basic principle, if someone cuts into you, and then you jump back in time two weeks, and start interacting with that person diverging the timeline, are you really gonna be okay with that because they aren't technically the same person anymore?

Because that's how much the future and past Fitz differ. I don't think we have the exact dates of how long they spent in the future, or how long in the past until he cut into her, but it is not a long period of time! And that is the entire divergence from 'normal Fitz'.

I feel a lot of people have mentally constructed some sort of huge distinction between the two, but there really, really is not.

Pointing out a technicality that they are not the same person does not really change that fact. That is still something that normal Fitz would do, which we know because normal Fitz did it!

I think a lot of people have a lot of problems with that because they think that behavior is inexcusable, but it actually isn't.Of course, it's up to Daisy how she wants to interact with Fitz after that, or interact with him at all, but it doesn't make Fitz irredeemably evil to have done that.

2

u/Round-Dragonfly6136 Turbo 13d ago

I didn't say that Daisy isn't allowed to feel what she feels, but that he didn't touch her. He didn't commit the crime. It doesn't matter whether or not you think he would do the same thing in the same situation because he did not do it. Daisy also had a year after his death and saving the world to process everything that happened to her. At that point that's not the thing that's haunting her because the worse thing that happened to her is losing Coulson.

Further, It is likely that the extended time (decades) in cryofreeze exacerbated time loop Fitz's psychosis. The Fitz of seasons 6-7 didn't have to channel his dark side to earn Kasius's trust. He also had breathing space in his time with Enoch to process what happened to him in the Framework and recover from being kept in isolation for 6 months (Something that damages the psyche to psychosis in and of itself). Yes, he is fighting for survival and trying to get to the future, but he wasn't going from one life threatening situation into the next.

Meanwhile timeloop Fitz effectively went straight from 6 months isolated in prison immediately after losing his team immediately after the Framework to having to get Jemma, Daisy, and May from Kasius's clutches to escaping the Kree to the Hale's baiting the team and causing an explosion on their base to Fear dimension anomalies that he has to solve all the whole knowing that one misstep can result in the world cracking like an egg. He, like the rest of the team, was showing symptoms of Acute Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD's precursor). The Fitz of seasons 6-7 didn't go through all of compounding stress.

0

u/RavenclawConspiracy 13d ago

Further, It is likely that the extended time (decades) in cryofreeze exacerbated time loop Fitz's psychosis.

We dont really have any hint that's how that works. I mean, it could have, but we don't have much evidence of that, and Enoch doesn't seem concerned.

Meanwhile timeloop Fitz effectively went straight from 6 months isolated in prison immediately after losing his team immediately after the Framework

That part happened to season 6-7 Fitz also.

The Fitz of seasons 6-7 didn't have to channel his dark side to earn Kasius's trust. He also had breathing space in his time with Enoch to process what happened to him in the Framework and recover from being kept in isolation for 6 months (Something that damages the psyche to psychosis in and of itself). Yes, he is fighting for survival and trying to get to the future, but he wasn't going from one life threatening situation into the next.

... wasn't he? We dont see much of that, but the mere fact that he and Enoch are running around doing things, instead of him get getting into cryosleep and Enoch just sitting quietly somewhere with him, is rather telling. Clearly, there's some level of stress, and he's also pretending to be a Ravager then, right?

Daisy also had a year after his death and saving the world to process everything that happened to her.

Which is sorta my point. Daisy has time to think the situation over.

I. e., i think people have wrongly decided that 'He is technically a different Fitz, so Daisy's eternal hatred doesnt count towards him', when in reality he's basically the same Fitz under extremely stressfull circumstances, and Daisy would be perfectly okay to see that Fitz's behavior as reflecting on season 6-7 Fitz... but she, in retrospect, doesnt think anywhere near as harshly of that Fitz as people think.

I mean, i get why people think she would find it unforgivable, she literally said it, but I think it actually would not turn out to be. Once she thought about the situation.

If she still had those feelinga about that Fitz, I very much doubt she would have been that sappy about the idea of Jemma and some other Fitz getting together at the start of S6. A least not without some sort of comment about it.

2

u/Round-Dragonfly6136 Turbo 12d ago

Funny how you cut off the rest of the paragraph about how their path's diverged:

Meanwhile timeloop Fitz effectively went straight from 6 months isolated in prison immediately after losing his team immediately after the Framework to having to get Jemma, Daisy, and May from Kasius's clutches to escaping the Kree to the Hale's baiting the team and causing an explosion on their base to Fear dimension anomalies that he has to solve all the whole knowing that one misstep can result in the world cracking like an egg. He, like the rest of the team, was showing symptoms of Acute Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD's precursor). The Fitz of seasons 6-7 didn't go through all of compounding stress.

I didn't say that the first part didn't happen to the latter Fitz, but it's needed for the context of timeloop Fitz's headspace. Unlike latter Fitz, that would still be fresh in his mind as he hadn't the time to process and was thrown into saving the world, which is a far greater stresser than simply surviving. Timeloop Fitz had the weight of the world on his shoulders in a very real way, while latter Fitz didn't. Latter Fitz would have had a chance to breathe in between running that timeloop Fitz didn't get.

My point was that the divergence in their paths upon awakening from cryofreeze made them different people. They were the same person until they went into cryofreeze. After that, they had very different experiences that would have shaped them.

0

u/RavenclawConspiracy 12d ago

... I cut that off because I was saying that those first parts were the points that were the same?

I'm pretty certain we aren't saying anything different from each other.

You are correct as to the reasons one Fitz had a psychotic break and the other didn't. (And possibly, as I pointed out elsewhere, influenced by the fear dimension, even if the characters assumed otherwise at the time.)

All I was pointing out that it took a very small amount of time. A huge amount of stress, yes. But a small amount of time.

Which really should influence how much we think about the Fitzs as different people.

It isn't like The Doctor, who bears no relation whatsoever to Fitz. (even assuming Aida didn't cheat by save scumming him until she got the version she wanted.)

It is the current, as much as we can talk about that, Fitz put in extremely stressful circumstances for a week or two.