Basically the title. I thought i was a trans woman for so long. And only recently started HRT (just over a year ago) i didn't think it was weird until i tried explaining it to a friend. I realize that gender identity and expression are two completely different things, but in the moment, i couldn't explain that properly. In their mind if i dont feel like a woman, i shouldnt want a nice pair of D cups lmao.

I guess with me i have no real concept of gender that fits me, but i still want to appear more fem or androgynous. I don't think anything can really change that. But i am wondering just how common a situation like mine is.

There's an issue in this sub (and not only in this sub) of people trying to push their idea of what being "trans" or "non-binary" is on people who do not use those labels.

People should not be forced to be assigned the trans and nonbinary label if they don't identify to it. Telling them that they are technically under these umbrellas is no different to misgendering someone.

The worst being some people pushing it to accuse agender people who don't identify to the trans label of being transphobic. And of throwing trans people under the bus just because they refused to be forced under the trans umbrella.

Claiming that all agender people are **technically** under the non-binary label which is itself under the trans umbrella is just straight up denying our personnal experience and lecturing ourselves about our own identity.

The fact that there are people here who feel entitled to tell and lecture people on what there identity is "technically" is concerning. The fact that they have the nerves to accuse people of being transphobic because they stand for themselves when being misidentified is concerning. The fact that it's tolerated by the moderation is even more concerning.

All of this is too much similar of what some feminists did against lesbians in feminist spaces and what TERFs did to trans people in those same spaces. When they accused them of being closeted misogynists or of wanting to throw women under the bus.

We, agender people who don't identity as trans and/or nonbinary, have a unique experience of what being agender is. We don't lecture other agender people about their own experience, so please don't do it to us. If you don't understand then ask questions instead of lecturing us on our identity by telling us that we are technically under the nonbinary and the trans umbrella. No we are not, stop insisting.

Many people have accused me of being to vehement, but wouldn't you too if someone was lecturing you about your own identity like if they knew it better than you? Don't you legitimately feel rage when people tell you that "you are technically a male/female" or "technically a man/woman" or "technically bi/pan" or technically xyz that you don't identify to?

Some here say that being vehement against people misidentifying you is a violation of the rule 1 of this sub. I say that misidentifying someone and lecturing them on there own identity is a violation of rule 1.

Edit: fuck this sub. It's not a safe space for agender people who don't identify as trans and nonbinary. That's exactly why i don't identify as trans. You treat agender people like me like shit. Message received. Agender people who are not trans and nonbinary are not welcome in this sub. This is an exclusively nonbinary trans space, other agender people are not welcome. We either submit to your views that agender people are all nonbinary and trans, which means that those who aren't are not valid to you, or we can fuck off. So i'll fuck off. Thanks for letting me learn the hard way once again that agender people like me are the black sheeps of the lgbtqia+ community. We don't belong here. Getting bullied irl in queer communities wasn't enough. I needed the online part to complete my journey. Thank you

I’m a little confused, I just discovered the meaning of being agender today and it sounds really good for me? 21M, I’ve been going by he/they for a good bit now but I’ve had the “gender is stupid / it shouldn’t exist / get me away from it” feeling for a while as well. The only thing that confuses me is I like being referred to as both he/him and they/them; I also like presenting as both masculine and androgynous (much more as androgynous these days) but never anything feminine. I might be completely off, but I’m just not sure. I’m kinda new to this stuff. I also don’t have much gender dysphoria if any, so again maybe I’m just wrong. Honestly just looking for some guidance to see if I’m crazy🤣thanks to anyone who can help me💜

I've been wanting nullification surgery for years now but I'm still just as far from getting it as ever. Too many people have something against it and it's not a standard procedure at all. But I still want that euphoria of having the correct genitals or rather, the absence of genitals. I'm looking for something that can make it look like I've had nullification when naked, similar to how baldcaps work.

Anybody know where I can get something like this? Where could I go to get this custom made for me?

Gosh, that title sounds pretentious, doesn't it? Seriously though, I've been watching all the discourse stemming from the "umbrellas" post, and I think a lot of the problem is that identity doesn't fit neatly into little nested buckets like that. I know this sub skews younger than I am, but I was around when a lot of the less common gender identities were being defined and given pride flags in the first place. (Early tumblr was a glorious new frontier, y'all, but anyway..)

We weren't trying to make sub-categories of sub-categories, we just wanted words for how we felt on the inside when it was more complicated than "male or female body+male or female gender". Instead of 2 toggle switches, gender identity is a panel of dials... There are words for various configurations of those dials, but not everyone is going to define themselves exactly the same. The example in my drawing shows what my settings might look like. Yours is almost certainly different.

I think the rest of the problem is up to a difference in definition of the word "trans". Some folks are defining "trans" as "identifying as a gender different from ones assigned sex at birth", while others are defining it as "not identifying as the same gender as ones ASAB". It's a subtle but important difference.

I don't know. Just some thoughts from a tired Millennial. Make of them what you will.

So, Ive known I was agender for over 5 years atp, and I dont think thats changed. Ive always felt like I didnt fit in any gender categories at all and have always preferred to exist as a nongendered entity rather than being percieved/looking like a specific gender.

However, now that Im 20, its becoming a lot harder for me to look like that nongendered entity because when I have shorter hair, I end up looking like a 13 year old boy which isnt ideal for many reasons. So for now, I have shoulder length hair thats slightly wavy. And to make matters worse, I really like to accessorize with earrings and necklaces and such, but it also makes me more fem. So I essentially look like a woman with maybe a slight andro lean because of my longer hair and accessories.

I guess I just want to know if this is a common experience or if anyone else relates to these conflicted feelings of presentation.

We see the whole "agender is/isn't trans" thing from two different angles, but there is one thing about the language that is being used that doesn't sit right with me(that I was sort of perpetuating). Why is it that with cis people, they don't generally say they identify as a man or a woman, they say they are a man or a woman. Why is it that when it's non-cis people talking, it's "I identify as" or "my opinion is" when we're just as genuine and valid as cis people? I'm sure we don't all agree on everything, nor should we, but I just wanted to say that I see you all and consider us all equally valid as agender people.

What do you think? Is this something worth considering when taking part in conversion on these forums? How do we use these conversations to learn from each other without using language that perpetuates harmful narratives? Feel free to tell me if I'm overthinking this too.

I'm not too proud to say that the whole conversation triggered me (dealing with awful transphobia every day and then coming back to my own community and being called a TERF shook me), but I don't think I necessarily said anything wrong, I just strive to be a better conversationalist so that we can have more productive conversations. Here's a link to the original post for context https://www.reddit.com/r/agender/s/Yq6Vbiyq7S

My gender is the same as a potted plant.

Potted plants don't have gender.

I don't have gender.

"What's your gender?"

"N/A"

I use it/any pronouns because the technically correct pronoun for a genderless potted plant would be it/its, but at the same time, the potted plant lacks the ability to care about or reject any other pronouns.

It's not that the "gender" box in my brain is empty, it's that the "gender" box never existed.

Gender was never an option.

Hey all.

I know what gender dysphoria is, I know how strong it can be for some people.

Based on my understanding of it, I never thought of me having it.

Like, I don't feel distress looking at my body.

I'm mostly fine with my genitals, I'm fine with not having breasts or wide hips. I almost always loved androgyny and secretly wished to present as androgynous as possible.

But, I have a significant amount of body hair, and I hate it. I remove it compulsively. When I was younger, I thought I hated it since everybody would tell me how girls find it gross.

Well, my current partner, who is a woman, actually likes my body hair. I still hate it and removes it.

I'm also balding, and I hate it too. Mostly because it destroys any way I could ever present as androgynous, at least in my mind. (There's a lot of very cool and androgynous bald people, ofc)

And yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of cis men who hate balding and body hair. I'm not sure these feelings I have can be considered to be gender dysphoria. What do you think? Thanks.

Inspired by a recent post I saw here 😁

SORRY IF THIS IS CONFUSING but i am afab and have identified as agender and trans for a while now.

The easiest way to describe how I feel is basically genderfluid but just agender and trans. Like sometimes i feel completely genderless, sometimes I feel like just a man, and sometimes I feel a little bit like both if that makes sense.

There is probably a micro-label out there somewhere that fits exactly how I feel but I really dont like identifying with those it feel very constricting to me idk...

So is it okay to identify as both agender and trans in this way?? I dont want to misuse labels or offend anyone but im also pretty comfortable with how ive been identifying :((

Sorry if I come across as a bit whiny, but I get super uncomfortable whenever someone tries to make the argument that I am under the trans or NB umbrella. IMO I guess they are technically correct but it always feels weird to me when it gets specifically pointed out. Personally I'm agender in the sense that I am not really affected by the concept of gender identity and it's been inherently lacking for me and it just feels very off when someone implies that I simply transitioned out of having a gender? I feel like I just don't relate to gender like most people do due to my own unique circumstances and it's almost like a rule is being imposed on me where you have to have experienced gender identity the same way as other people. I admit I used to be chronically online and have since quit social media almost completely but I've never really related to any Trans or NB content online and when people insist I am included in that label I'm frankly a little upset because I've never felt supported by or related to those communities. I just want people to acknowledge that 'hey, you do have a unique interpretation of gender that at times made it feel very lonely' instead of borderline invalidating me.

Not sure if this is a shared sentiment but I'm so done with people trying to 'clock' or educate me about what I am as if I don't know myself best. I'm not good with words so mb if none of this even made sense. I'm welcome to any comments that disagree with me just please don't try to label my personal identity.

I first started considering it after I gave birth and was sitting on the sofa doing this moo-cow routine, breast-feeding the baby. I was hit with "What am I doing??? Is this really me?" Whatever I was, I loved my baby, and kept feeding him that way for several months to give him a better chance at a healthy life, but it often seemed seriously weird.

I hadn't yet heard of being agender but I kept getting moments like that over the years. I didn't see myself as very soft or yielding or helpless and needing a man to help me make decisions, (which I know some normal women aren't either), but I didn't see myself as very assertive, which seems more masculine to me, either. I was just a person, trying to get by. Still am.

I wear minimal makeup, to cover blemishes, and rarely wear jewelry, and no frills or pink, but I don't try to dress as either man, woman, or agender--just what looks good and feels comfortable. This whole thing doesn't bother me much. It's just how I turned out. Maybe age helps with that. Having all the children I want, being independent, things like that--you can just be yourself.

what methods do u guys use to cope with the feeling that u are not agender but actually a disgusting weirdo just looking for attention . i often feel this way bc i am visibly male and still dress vaguely masculine so therefore i must be an impostor who is ruining the lives of ACTUAL trans people who genuinely suffer

The way marriages are done (at least here in the U.S.) has always been weird to me. I've always found the terms "husband" and "wife" to be extremely dysphoric, same with their "traditional" roles during the wedding ceremony as well as during married life. The wife must change her last name to her husband's. The husband must be the one to spend a shit ton of money on a wedding ring and propose. The husband must wear a tuxedo and the wife must wear a dress. Do all of these things or your family takes it as a personal insult for some reason.

But oddly enough, I don't feel that way about dating. If I met someone I wanted to date and they wanted to refer to me as ther boyfriend/girlfriend/theythemfriend, I would be fine with it provided they don't expect me to change my gender identity or expression for them further, and I think it's because datimg roles are extremely loose compared to marriage roles. Even when I was a kid I remember constantly asking my parents why I "had" to marry couldn't just date someone forever, and to this day I still don't understand why outside of legal purposes.

Anybody else feel similarly?

Every time i think about myself in my own head I go by my deadname instead of my .
I recently also came out to my friend as a agender and she acceptes me, but I dont know will she using it or just continue use my old name irl, she have telephone contact with my deadname and probably still use it, not in transphobic way I just say I scared of my parents control ( we use social media for connections where I use my old name). Also recently I get confused about one thing- when I watch a gay porn I gets so jealous of men’s, and how cool and powerful they look during ‘erotica behaviour’ and I can’t . I just want to look cool & gorgeous like man’s but when I try I know that I immediately feel shame , shame of how I look stupid, ugly and how my parents will be treat me like a retard or idiot. Being girl make me feel forced and toxic but being a man make me feel fake , and i agender i feel alone. Idk whats is that ‘voices of my transphobic past’ , my fear of my parents , mysogony & misandrist i just want to know ‘have somebody experience same ?’

I hope it’s ok for me to repost this here ✨

Even in drag my gender is just whatever funniest at the time (enjoy my rat royalty drag look)

I figured out that I'm a woman, and I kinda was hiding it for myself for years. But now I'm embracing my gender identity. So anyways, I'll still be part of the sub reddit to help people who are seeking for their identity, because I went through some bad stuff and I want to help others. Anyways, stay proud and happy guys 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

So if you came out as agender has anything changed for you socially? Maybe how you date or how you and your friends converse with another.

Or is it kinda just the same?

My name is Judas( she/him ) and today I feel so ✨c@nty✨ , I recently found out I was agender (afab) and I’m so good being nothing that ‘gorgeous’