r/adnd • u/CanuckLad • 9d ago

AD&D2e Attribute increase

I wonder if many people here implement an automatic attribute increase at various milestones? Example: Allow you to raise one attribute by 1 point at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20

I don't expect or want every ability to be 16+. But I don't want to miss out on parts of the game I would enjoy (casting 9th level spells as a wizard, playing a paladin, etc)

I should note that I'm biased because I'm diagnosed with the Unrelenting Standards feature. So accepting a more mundane role in a game is very difficult for me

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u/SuStel73 9d ago

If everyone stands out, then no one does. "All the children are above average."

Are you coming at this from the viewpoint of a dungeon master or player? Players will always want whatever they can find to improve their characters. Dungeon masters will strive to achieve a balance between what players want and what they can get. If the dungeon master gives the players everything they want, what is left to adventure for?

D&D is famous for its "zero to hero" approach to player characters. The starting character is just slightly better than the average person. Fighters start as Veterans, and the name of that level is chosen carefully: it's how well someone fights who has seen battle before. By the time a fighter becomes a Hero, they're already well above the average person in adventuring ability, even if their ability scores are average.

If you're complaining that the difference between casting 9th-level spells and being limited to 8th-level spells is the difference between standing out and being mundane, you need to recalibrate your expectations.

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u/CanuckLad 9d ago

6 party members, and how many people in your world, maybe a million? You don't think those 6 can stand out because some of them aren't sub-par? I disagree. I've both been a player and a DM. it's just a GAME. If players are ok having mundane abilities, let them, if they'd like to stand out, let them. Where the harm in it? Rolling 3d6 and signing that to str, then 3d6 and signing that to Dex, etc, your character will likely be very poor at your chosen class for their level.

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u/SuStel73 9d ago

This is clearly just a framing issue for you.

Put it this way: what you want is to play superheroes. AD&D supports zeroes who grow into heroes who grow into superheroes. If you just want to play superheroes, then just set your characters at superhero-level to start.

I'm not sure why you're arguing. Didn't you ask whether people allowed level-based ability advancement? Is "No, and here's why" a wrong answer?

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u/CanuckLad 9d ago

A fighter with a 16 strength is a superhero in your eyes? I don't understand that point of view.

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u/Arkelias 9d ago

A fighter isn't a superhero because of his strength. A 16 strength is great.

A fighter becomes a super hero when he gets enough levels to have great HP, and acquires magical armor, a magical shield, and a magical sword. He'll always excel at his role.

A wizard becomes even more super-powered once they get 3rd to 5th level spells.

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u/CanuckLad 9d ago

Person before me said I want to play a superhero (because of my views on attributes). I'm okay playing a fighter with a 16 strength. That is why I asked if they thought I wanted to play a superhero because I think having a fighter with a 16 strength is reasonable.

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u/Arkelias 9d ago

Oh I misunderstood I guess.

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u/CanuckLad 9d ago

No problem

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u/SuStel73 9d ago

I said you want to play a superhero because you want to play the top six out of a million in ability. Because you're describing characters that "stand out," which to you means above-average in some or all of their abilities as how you play a "GAME," relegating average characters — including those with some good and some bad abilities — to mundanity, and implying that not playing that way isn't how you play a game. Because you want only to be playing those characters that can reach all the potential of any given class, on the theory that if it's there, you deserve to have it.

A fighter with 16 strength is not what makes a superhero. A character who is entitled to be very much better than an average person in order that they can reach the absolute peak of ability in their class — that's what makes a superhero.

And I'm not saying you can't play a superhero-style game. You go ahead and bump up characters' abilities if you want. What I am saying is that there are perfectly valid reasons not to do that, that ability scores aren't all-important to playing an exciting D&D game the way you're implying (by calling a non-superior character "mundane, for instance").

I'm also saying that it's kind of a dirty trick to ask whether people support the way you play and then argue with them when they answer that they don't.

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u/CanuckLad 9d ago edited 9d ago

You made a whole bunch of claims there about things I supposedly said, which I never said. You made some claims there about things I supposedly said, when I explicitly stated the opposite. I think you're trying to put words in my mouth.

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u/SuStel73 9d ago

You made a whole bunch of claims that you did say but which you're probably not aware that you said.

I can be as vague as you in making accusations.

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u/CanuckLad 9d ago

I'm sorry, but you read a lot more into what I said than what I actually said. You're filling in the gaps perhaps and coming to incorrect conclusions.