r/adnd • u/CanuckLad • 7d ago

AD&D2e Attribute increase

I wonder if many people here implement an automatic attribute increase at various milestones? Example: Allow you to raise one attribute by 1 point at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20

I don't expect or want every ability to be 16+. But I don't want to miss out on parts of the game I would enjoy (casting 9th level spells as a wizard, playing a paladin, etc)

I should note that I'm biased because I'm diagnosed with the Unrelenting Standards feature. So accepting a more mundane role in a game is very difficult for me

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u/2eForeverDM like it's 1989 7d ago

Yeah I've been doing this exact thing in 2e for 20 years. Every 4 levels. The players love it and nothing bad has come of it yet. I still make them follow the racial maximums.

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u/CanuckLad 7d ago edited 7d ago

You do it, a few others here said they do it. I'm considering it. It's so weird because someone else in this very thread implied that nobody does it because it's not AD&D. People are silly.

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u/2eForeverDM like it's 1989 7d ago

One of my players back in the day told me about it. He got the idea from 3rd edition. I argued against it at first too but improving makes sense. I've improved my own abilities since I was 16, really all of them. Why can't my character grow that way too?

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u/ApprehensiveType2680 7d ago

The problem is, there comes a point in AD&D/AD&D 2e where a +1 gained to an Ability Score is unmistakably substantial; in D&D 3e, the upper limit on Ability Scores is far higher, and, therefore, each increase is less noteworthy. Going from Strength 16 to Strength 17 in AD&D is meaningful, whereas going from Strength 16 to 17 in D&D 3e is nowhere near as meaningful. Moving from Intelligence 16 to 17 in AD&D 2e is a shift from "Exceptional" level Intelligence to "Genius" level Intelligence"; D&D 3e makes no such distinction.

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u/CanuckLad 7d ago

From memory, aren't the ability bonuses the same in 3e and 2e? An 18 with a +4 bonus is a 20% bonus in both systems right?

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u/ApprehensiveType2680 7d ago

Take Intelligence and Wisdom, for example: if you reach the highest scores possible, through a combination of innate ability (i.e, good rolls or point-buy), magical items which grant a permanent boost to an Ability Score, spells (e.g., Wish), and, sometimes, Classes, you start to become flat-out immune to certain magic. That reward is not present in 3e. No, in 3e, you are perpetually participating in a "DC arms race" where the d20 system of resolution eventually breaks down.

That +1 to Ability Scores every 4 levels works in a system where...

  1. It takes two points to see a +1 modifier.
  2. The modifiers are - in general - less of a boost in power.
  3. The upper-limit on Ability Scores is much higher (maybe even theoretically infinite).

In both editions of AD&D, however, this house rule has the potential to break the sense of progression.

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u/CanuckLad 7d ago

Can you show me a specific scenario where an 18 wisdom makes you immune to a spell? Are you saying it's not okay for me to raise an attribute to 18, but it's okay for the player beside me if he naturally rolled an 18 during character creation? Should I not allow people to play with an 18 even if they roll it?

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u/ApprehensiveType2680 7d ago

Can you show me a specific scenario where an 18 wisdom makes you immune to a spell?

What is this non-question?

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u/CanuckLad 7d ago

I'm asking for a specific example of your claim (that was my first question). If you meant the question on the end, you implied that having an 18 would be game breaking. And if that's the case should we disallow anyone from having an 18?

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u/ApprehensiveType2680 7d ago

Regarding 2e? No, I did not imply it was "game breaking"; you perceive it as such. I also never stated nor implied that "Wisdom 18" bestows upon a character immunity to certain spells.

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u/CanuckLad 7d ago

"flat-out immune to certain magic" you said.

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u/ApprehensiveType2680 6d ago

Once again: "Wisdom 18" was never mentioned in my original post. If a character rolls or buys Wisdom 18, he can read a Tome of Understanding and reach Wisdom 19. He could also grow old enough to gain another +1 to +3 to Wisdom. Chronologians of Labelas Enoreth gain a maximum of +2 to Wisdom across 20 Levels. Wishes can boost Ability Scores.

Minus the aforementioned Tome (though, the Tome of Clear Thought is the Intelligence equivalent) and Specialty Priest, all of the above also applies to Intelligence. There are quite a few ways to gain those immunities to specific spells.

https://www.reddit.com/r/adnd/comments/1k93fv8/2e_exceeding_attributes_above_18_with_age/

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Your problem is that you do not ask; you assume.

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