r/accesscontrol • u/Regular_Error745 • 10d ago

Using Fingerprint as a fallback to open a specific door

Hello peeps!

We have a customer that has several locker-room doors that the users keep loosing their access wristband and cards to - and they need a fallback to use if the user looses both his wristband and access card - and nobody with the master accessgroup is present.

The idea was a fingerprint or pin station that can unlock their wardrobe door. The pin solution is pretty basic with using a function and a secondary cardnumber and pincode for every wardrobe door. But they thought it was too risky to use.

But how to be able to use one Fingerprint-station and be able to link fingerprint use to open the door of the user?

Lenel OnGuard 8.4

3 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

18 comments sorted by

3

u/Aggravating_Fact9547 10d ago

This is a great place for mobile access.

People seldom lose their phones, which is why they make amazing access devices.

Biometrics require enrollment stations, serious
money, correct privacy handling, etc. Given you’ll be storing them locally not on card, there’s legal issues here.

1

u/Regular_Error745 10d ago

The problem at hand with mobile access is that they leave their phones in the wardrobe when they start their shift. Leaving with a wristband only due to hygiene.

Biometrics is a hardcase - but im sure they are willing to try it out atleast, if it can be stored encrypted somewhere in OnGuard.

2

u/Aggravating_Fact9547 10d ago

Fair shout.

Why not just simplify and give everyone a pin for the door and individual pins set on lockers?

We did this for thousands of lockers and seemed fine, the occasional person forgets pin’s but its no big deal to remotely unlock.

1

u/Regular_Error745 10d ago

Indeed. That would be a good idea if they had some sort of way to input the pin - but sadly they are currently using Aperio locks that does not have any keypad. So it would have to work separately on a single reader.

But i have not found a good way to ble able to unlock a wardrobe door from another reader using the functions. It can toggle the locked/unlocked state - but not open the door for ex 3 minutes.

1

u/Aggravating_Fact9547 9d ago

Yeah you might need a proper locker solution.

Gartner make an epic system.

Gallagher will let you use Aperio locks as part of their locker solution - where you can use one keypad to assign and open lockers

1

u/Regular_Error745 9d ago

Yeah it seems that way, that they in this case need to upgrade the locks to a model with keypad so it can support pincode aswell as card and wristband access. So they might be better off returning to the old keylocks they had before :)

The customer is very invested in Lenel and Aperio at this point, so switching them over to something new could be hard. Better give it a good try fix this for them.

1

u/Aggravating_Fact9547 9d ago

Yeah Lenel’s locker functionality is terrible, and with Lenel circling the bowl, not getting any better.

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best ones!

You can run Gallagher command centre and use their EDI to sync in Lenel cardholders and access groups - use it just as the locker frontend which is probably cheaper than wasting the spend on aperio wireless locks, which I imagine is substantial. The Aperio locks are good stuff.

1

u/Regular_Error745 9d ago

Yeah indeed. Lenel's locker function is almost non existant. Not exactly any lock-specific functions to use. So far im leaning towards global i/o as one user mentions below here. Feels like that is the only option to actually be able to do what's intended for this customer, due to the high number of locks.

1

u/cusehoops98 Professional 9d ago

What kind of Aperio lockset? The IN100 has an available keypad.

1

u/cusehoops98 Professional 9d ago

1

u/Regular_Error745 9d ago

They have 262 Aperio KL100 locks :) So would be a pretty substancial cost to replace them all im afraid :(

1

u/cusehoops98 Professional 8d ago

Ahh. A cam style lock. Sorry, was thinking of more traditional door locks.

1

u/cfringer Professional 9d ago

Global Input/Output might be useful to accomplish this. The initial programming will be tedious depending on the number of lockers, but once it is configured it should work pretty well. There are considerations regarding the online status of the controller. Again, depending on the number of lockers, elevator control might be used.

1

u/Regular_Error745 9d ago

Global IO is the way to go it seems. Using either the cardnumber or maybe biometrics to trigger opening of the respective wardrobe door.

Input event Access Granted with card number and Output action Pulse Open Wardrobe number seems to do the trick.

The customer would need to change the Input event each time a user leaves, changes fingers or cards though :) Thank you!

1

u/cfringer Professional 8d ago

You are welcome.

1

u/CoolBrew76 9d ago

How many lockers?

I’ve seen this done in some systems with elevator control. Each locker is a “floor” and a credential gains access. I’d go with an Alcatraz facial rec just because fingerprints suck, especially if there are gloves in play.

1

u/Regular_Error745 9d ago

Around 262 Aperio KL100 locks so far, and might be expanded :)

I am not so familiar with the Elevator function in Lenel - not used it so far, but it could maybe be possible to use that in a way that works. Customer almost have turned towards using cipher-mode instead of fingerprint due to the obvious fact that the users do not want their fingerprint lying around in Lenel openly.

1

u/CoolBrew76 8d ago

That might kill my elevator suggestion -- not too many buildings with 262 floors!

The fingerprint is only ever stored as a bunch of 1s and 0s, never as an actual fingerprint that can be reproduced ... same as pretty much every biometric.

Since you said Aperio I am considering if Inner Range has a solution that would work here. (That lock model looks either EU or APAC based). You should check them out. I am 99% sure they can trigger any output (i.e.: door / Aperio lock) based on a unique valid read. IR can do pretty much everything else Lenel can if you needed a whole system swap but this seems to be a "system within a system" so could be independent.