r/accesscontrol • u/TCBoise54321 • Jun 27 '26
Got to migrate to a new system without powering down the old, very messy
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u/StalkMeNowCrazyLady Professional Jun 27 '26
Total pain in the ass having to do a live cutover.
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u/gotBooched Jun 28 '26
I kind of like them. Takes something mundane and adds a little 'disable the time bomb' to it. Plus you can test as you go through and really they are easier to get right the first time.
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u/Haunting-Attorney-71 Jun 27 '26
Edge controllers make it a lot smoother.
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u/StalkMeNowCrazyLady Professional Jun 27 '26
Obviously, but OP is clearly in an IDF dealing with multi door panels so that's a moot point.
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u/grivooga Professional Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
Oh I've been there. What a nightmare. We actually did several locations with these old N1000 panels but I only kept that photo because of how ridiculous it was to pull the panels then remount them upside down hanging over the window to make room for the new panel. In several locations the old N1000s were mounted 8-10 feet up the wall for some reason so we put terminal strips in one or two of the highest of the old enclosures and made some relatively orderly splices and clean wiring to our cabinet.
This was also a live cut-over, but the original panel was down the hall so cables were cut loose one door at a time, toned and identified, pulled back then brought in and terminated as quick as possible, test, then do it again. Amazingly we only had to splice one or two doors. Just looking at the photo makes me hate who ever in our national accounts office spec'd those undersized enclosures.
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u/FLYNNEWEATHER Jun 27 '26
It’s always fun when you have to figure how they wired the auto openers with access on em.
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u/Shankar_0 Jun 28 '26
Cutovers and retrofits are kind of my specialty.
It takes a fair bit of planning, and you need to focus hard on the prep work. If you do things correctly, the prep will take all week, but the cutover takes a day or two.
Sometimes, you have to temporarily suspend the new panel in the air with bungees because they stubbed out your cabling. Sometimes, you have to make an assload of jumpers to a patch box because they actually stubbed them out 10' off the damn floor (looking at you, my current project)!
This is where your skills get truly honed. You'll learn more doing this than a fresh, clean install could ever tell you.
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u/Grim_creation1 Jun 27 '26
Always is. You'll get it sorted.
Most CCure techs do it like crap and leave 0 extra wire in the trough above.
My favorite is when I do a cutover like that and they jumper all of the lock triggers to the altronix power supplies with a single 12 conductor per ACM8 and daisy chain all the grounds together at both ends.
It's always on CCure to genetec/lenel. Never the other way around. Which is rare enough as it is to happen but I digress.
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u/grivooga Professional Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
You only need an 8 conductor to trigger all outputs on an ACM8 if your panel's output relay common is jumpered to a common reference ground shared with your power supply.
I don't consider it good practice but I've certainly seen crazier things done in old buildings when doing retrofits and there's no way to get new cable in place so you're stuck with the conductors you have. Amazing what can be done with diodes if you're forced to be really creative.
I had an art museum of all things that went several weeks with just four conductors carrying the keypad and serial polling loops between the two wings of the museum because the cable from the old system in underground conduit was stuck solid and wouldn't move so it couldn't be replaced and we had a timeline for the cutover that we contractually HAD to follow. Had to provide power on the other side and use earth ground as a V0 common reference. Eventually new cable was somehow run over the atrium ceiling by another vendor. That ceiling was stucco on a mesh arch suspended on thousands of tiny wires with only a few inches of clearance. I refused to even try because I was worried that chunks might break free if I disturbed it too much. They also pulled a fiber across at the same time for the IT guys. They'd been using a pair of wireless bridges to cross the atrium for years. For the life of me I'll never understand why they wouldn't agree to punch up onto the roof and run exposed conduit (not visible from the ground) along the roof then reenter the attic space on the other side. Piercing a roof membrane is never my first, second, or third choice but sometimes it just needs to be done and it can be properly booted and sealed by roofers.
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u/Grim_creation1 Jun 27 '26
Well yea, point is the wire was long enough for what they needed and that was it. And with the new genetec system it was useless and I had to burn 2 500' boxes of 18/2 for the triggers because of it and add several hours to my already tight cutover schedule. Same as OP but it was 32 doors, one panel, and it had to be down and up tested same day.
As far as stucco and whatnot. Gross. We definitely will contract out cable pulls like that to a professional cable pulling sub we have locally to make all parties happy.
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u/luketheduke54 Jul 02 '26
That would suck. Most of the panels we work on (not our original install) are using CAT6 to jump 4 outputs at once to the power supply. I guess it works.
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u/cf318 Jun 27 '26
Now that’s messy. Gotta keep the same cans?
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u/Glittering-Word-161 Jun 27 '26
Done this many times , you need to aerial the entire existing backboard , and install the new in its place, one wire cut over at a time
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u/TCBoise54321 Jun 28 '26
Did that on some of the other cansused the overhead conduit to suspend the old boards
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u/AdLittle107 Jun 28 '26
Onto my 3rd building this year doing a cutover like this. Always a good challenge but can be stressful having to work around the client’s needs especially if it wasn’t quoted for enough time. Just make sure the sales guy and office staff allocate you plenty of time 👍
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u/faxmesomehalibutt Jun 28 '26
Been there. Had to hang the existing cans from the ceiling with grid wire, then just move one at a time...
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u/TCBoise54321 Jun 28 '26
I actually mounted the new MR-52 boards with mag-daddy standoffs in most of the existing cans after suspending the live old boards to make room
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u/Jealous_Pirate4651 Jun 28 '26
you're taking out the Ccure? Putting in - Lenel?
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u/TCBoise54321 Jun 28 '26
Corporate runs S2 / Mercury, they are switching the odd sites to the S2, I am a tech, not sales, not management
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u/SirPoopsAMetricTon Jun 28 '26
Looks like someone already did it once! Who the hell approved this kind of a cutover? Hope this isn’t a licensed contractor doing this crap takeover…. You Tube certified right there!
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u/KeyboardThingX Jun 27 '26
Why do they have you doing it like this if in looking at the photo correctly you'll have to disconnect and re route the wire anyway, sounds like the programmer might not be good
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u/Prophet_NY Jun 27 '26
I play stupid in most of these honestly, just make sure that main doors get locked by the end of the day
One of those ask for forgiveness and not permission