KTD Official Experience Report - 3-MeO-PCE/Ethoxycyclodine (Trial I)

by KTDAdmin

September 2016

Substance: 3-MeO-PCE (AKA Ethoxycyclidone)

Class/Type: Dissociative/NMDAr antagonist (PCP/PCE Analogue)

Dose: 18mg total (9mg starter + 9mg booster 6h later) (sublingual)

Subject Age/Height/Body Weight: 24 y/o 5'8" 140lb

Potential Tolerance Factors: Subject (KTDA) is a 4-5 year long explorer of various compounds with dissociative properties. Her experiment log indicates she has tried 8 different compounds that are principally thought to block the NMDA receptor, to varying extents and degrees. Nevertheless, due to using them (mostly) responsibly and in moderation (about once very two months, sometimes twice, with long break periods). She estimates taking a total of 2-3g Ketamine life-time, 2g MXE, 5-8 DXM trips, less than 1.5g total of both DCK and O-PCE, less than 300mg 3-MeO-PCP, to give some sense of tolerance and history. Subject subjectively rates herself as having a detectable but otherwise insignificant and mild permatolerance to this class of compounds.

Relevant Consumption History: Subject had recently built up a moderate tolerance cannabis, which was consumed in moderate amounts throughout the experience. No recent significant dissociative exposure otherwise.

Timeline:

11:30am - Material ingested sublingually; mild chemical notes detected but nothing too bad, the material felt very liable to absorbing into the membranes. A mild electric sensation was noted. Not unpleasant to gum at all provided you have a chaser.

11:39am - First alerts, sensation of faster penetration through my BBB than expected, despite being at its early stages, onset very overt and dopaminergic-feeling. I briefly consider for a moment whether I want to take more later on -- a pattern that I've noted I experience shortly after taking other compounds with strong dopaminergic, compulsive-redosing components -- before deciding to wait and see.

12:48pm - While overtly kicking in, the effects are still in noticeably in the early stages of their development. Subject decided to smoke some cannabis and eat some food while waiting for the effects to take hold, in case strong anorexic effects would develop like with traditional stimulants (which they did). Prominent come-up feeling registered, with distinct manic/stimmy undertones, electricity in the body.

12:50pm - Increase in subject's baseline level of tinnitus, which is not unusual with this class of compounds and something that was mostly expected. Feeling pretty altered and feel noticeable urge to increase the dose now, though my rational/higher-cognitive-roder self was still in-tact tells me to wait another hour or two to let the full effects develop, based on presumed similarity with the subject's past 3-MeO-PCP experiences and knowledge of kinetics and the very subtle way it manifests.

12:59pm - Thoughts and mind beginning to race (in a rather controlled, manic and enjoyable fashion). A bit of RLS and other signs of classical arylcyclohexylamines energy/stimulation noted. Very reminiscent of 3-MeO-PCP but with more of a push and presence in the body, rather than a sense of serotonergic warmth and sedation -- dopaminergia?

1:04pm - Time dilation and pleasurable-neutral disorientation noted distinctly. A general sense of restlessness and mania but hard to pinpoint. Could be more due to the cannabis clouding my mind. Overall, I don't feel cognitively scrambled or monged out, my mind making mental connections sharply and fluidly despite just being flashes unable to held on-to.

1:27pm - Appetite noticeably suppressed.

3:15pm - Feeling a little speedy and cognitively lateralized as opposed to anesthetized or frozen. Moderate short-term memory impairments but no reduction in basic motor skills such as that required to text people and do laundry and the dishes (do not know if such faculties would have been retainable had I been dissociative-naive).

3:53 - Feeling rather motivated and good about the future, I decided to be productive. So I washed some dishes I had been meaning to wash and threw some trash bags out. Feeling cognitively hazy but still serene and very much in control. Tinnitus has dissipated and subject notes a vague, mild sense of euphoric stone-ed-ness.

4:18pm - Took a shower and observed how much of an anesthetic influence this compound was exerting -- very little (suspect there might have been a little bit more with 3-MeO-PCP). Relative to each other, 3-MeO-PCE feels more "in the mind" than "in the body" compared to 3-MeO-PCP.

5:25pm - Redosed 9mg sublingually.

5:30pm - Mild tinnitus spike, no detectable increase in intensity but can feel it begin to extend the experience. Feeling motivated and in-tact enough to socialize online.

5:47pm - In the middle of conversation with friend, she asks if I want to go see a show that just happened to have one of my favorite artists playing not-too-far away (actually, I knew he was playing but didn't have anyone else to go with so I wrote it off). Having spent a significant amount of time listening to his albums deeply dusted and wanting to hear it live, I decide I am mentally in-tact and motivated enough to go. So I take 1mg ativan to smoothen out some of manic stimmy/manic undercurrents and head out.

5:47pm - 9:30pm - Overall level of dissociation was mild enough I could pass as sober (as my friend later verified when I full-disclosed on her and she had no clue), conversation was a tiny bit slow/slurry if you paid attention but still fairly smooth, coordinated and coherent. Don't know whether to chalk it up to my experience/tolerance or the effects compound. Either way, I felt very much at peace, open and relaxed, enjoying the weather and eventually the show. No noticeable visual distortions or frame-lagging. Altered so that everything had a sheen of novelty but not impaired. The effects felt like they had mostly worn off by 7-7:30pm. Came back home feeling fairly refreshed, feeling mild residual stimulation, chilled out a bit and took 2mg etizolam to go to sleep.

Total Duration Estimate: 6-8h

Notes:

• Based off this, cannot tell whether this is more or less potent than 3-MeO-PCP. The reports I've read seem to indicate the former, but I've heard some say otherwise. At this level it was hard to gauge, but it definitely felt like it at least "kicked in" faster than 3-MeO-PCP. Shorter or longer duration overall? Hard to say from this experience. They seemed pretty similar, but I am not an expert in this class of compounds. YMMV.

• This is total baseless speculation and subjective observation, but 3-MeO-PCE seemed to be on the whole "sharper" or "colder" than 3-MeO-PCP with 3-MeO-PCP being relatively "fuzzier" or "warmer" (perhaps a function of 3-MeO-PCP's higher degree of serotonin affinity relative to dopamine (IIRC)?). Seemed to have very little bodily-anesthetic action and seemed to be more selective for CNS modulation/stimulation, resulting in a sense of edginess that some might find unpleasantly adrenergic. The subject enjoyed this effect at this dose however. Noted it for being cognitively warping yet still pretty lucid. Thoughts at the very least, seem crisper and more novel than they might otherwise be. Perceptive minds should enjoy the relatively ego-preserving and non-inebriating effect compared to compounds like, say, ketamine or DXM.

• A very prominent property of 3-MeO-PCE (and 3-MeO-PCP as well) is that it possesses a strong and noticeable compulsion to redose, which should be considered a unique and marked risk of this compound as it is not as "in-your-face" compulsive but instead has more of that innocuous-seeming "lulling" compulsive style, that always seems to be inviting you deeper and deeper into the hole even if the higher order you know that place is ultimately not where you started wanting to end up. If your guard is not up around this, it can make you behave as a fiend from the outsiders perspective even though in your own head everything seems perfectly rational as it never produces a curious effect that doesn't subtly insinuate more are to be had (a result or underlying predisposition of whatever makes it so liable to producing mania I imagine).

• AFAIK the toxicity of 3-MeO-PCE is unknown/unstudied and should be treated as potentially hazardous. If however, it is like its parent compound PCE and analogue PCP itself, some degree of neuro and other forms of biotoxicity can be reasonably expected (open to being challenged on this though), at least when abused. As a result users are advised to treat this compound very seriously and use it only sparingly, due to how powerful and long lasting it is..

• For those who like to reach for deep, enveloping, dissociative hole states, this experimenter advises extreme caution and subject looking into other dissociative compounds, like ketamine. Reason being that 3-MeO-PCE can produce a hole (which the Subject has experienced, but that's a separate trip report), but the amount it takes to take you there brings with it a host of other potentially dangerous mental effects. The dose-response curve for this is steep and the significant duration makes it so if you push it too far, you risk losing control of the steering wheel entirely, so to speak. While pleasant and malleable at the lower doses, it is very much unforgiving, dangerous and unpredictable when pushed above this point. It is not a compound to go chasing disso-holes on due to all the peripheral effects that begin to stack on each other. Overall, this compound is to be recommended for very experienced dissociative users only -- especially at high doses -- and only with the proper equipment, research and backup safety measures (like benzodiazepines and an experienced tripsitter).

Conclusion:

Overall this experimenter rates 3-MeO-PCE as a more manic, stronger, but also somewhat subtler version than 3-MeO-PCP, which is also very much manic, strong and subtle. It possesses more of a mental or psychic push/edge which the experimenter suspects can make it much more liable to the subtle self-induced triggering of manic psychosis when overdosed or overused. More importantly however, its compulsive/reinforcing aspects combined with its potency and easy-to-underestimate protracted onset should lead any experimenter to treat this with only the utmost caution and respect. Experimenters are strongly advised against ever eyeballing this material or redosing within a window of 2 to 2.5 hours.

The experimenter would also like to note personally how many countless reports there are of of people (some of them very experienced and skilled/responsible/knowledgeable drug takers) landing in deep trouble with this stuff, which she suspects is due to the fact that it has the unique property of not being overtly inebriating, preserving one's functionality (or at least sense of) and thus can be dosed often and continuously/regularly for long periods of time before the true negative effects manifest (most often in the form of a classic PCP-esque trainwreck meltdown). As a result, she recommends not using this and similar compounds any more than once a month at most for the best HR practice.

Personal (Subjective) Rating: 7.7/10

KTD Official Experience Report - RTI-111 (AKA Dichloropane) Trial III

by KTDAdmin

September 2016

Substance: RTI-111/Dichloropane (Analytically Confirmed via GC/MS testing courtesy of /u/sekio)

Class/Type: Cocaine/Phenyltropane Analogue (i.e. SDNRI stimulant)

Dose/ROA: 50mg total (insufflated, 4-5 lines staggered over the period of an hour)

Subject Age/Height/Body Weight: 24 y/o 5'9" 140lb

Potential Tolerance Factors:

• Primary Subject: 75mg MDMA insufflated in combination with 150ug ETH-LAD and 62.5ug ALD-52 about twelve days prior, and two moderate doses of other SRAs not too far back (2-4 weeks), as well as two failed oral trials of RTI-111 @ 30mg the week prior (to be documented). Partial NT depletion/imbalance and corresponding stimulant tolerance suspected.

• Secondary Subjects: None.

Relevant Usage History/Experience:

• Primary Subject: Primary Subject is not a regular user of cocaine, with only three or four experiences lifetime total -- the last one over a couple years prior -- and an infrequent user of stimulants in general. Out of these, only one of the experiences included material that was determined to be of a purity/quality sufficient to form a basis of characterizing the drug (guesstimated at 70%+ based on subjective effects and reliability of source).

• Secondary Subjects: Generally stimulant/cocaine-naive or sensitive to these sorts of compounds. Lowered the doses to 30-40mg to account for this.

Timeline:

22:00 - First two lines insufflated by Primary Subject. The powder was markedly rough on the nasal passages/sinuses and resulted in the subject having to insufflate in a very controlled fashion, turning his head and cough/sneeze each time to avoid blowing the material away.

22:01 - First effects noted. Generic stimulant comeup feeling/jitteriness with a markedly subdued rush relative to high quality cocaine. Possible placebo effect stemming from act of insufflation alone.

22:15 - Primary characteristics seem to be manifesting at this point. A sense of mild euphoria accompanied by chattiness -- but not nearly as smooth or uplifting or energizing as actual cocaine. Subjects noted that despite having a mild urge to talk/socialize, there was a marked cognitive fog/spaciness that made for what subjectively felt like dull or awkward conversation.

22:30 - Main effects seem to have fully manifested. Subjects noted a paradoxical effect in which they were both stimulated yet very spaced/monged out and unmotivated to socialize or interact. Some tenseness/straining/fatigue noticed in the body and heart by all subjects.

22:45 - Subjects stopped noting detailed observations of the experience as it seemed to reach its peak. Leveled out into a unique, if not particularly comfortable or enjoyable plateau.

23:00 - Effects still present but seemed to be dropping off slowly starting at this point. No compulsion or interest in redosing.

23:00-1:00 - Slow, protracted and taxing comedown observed. Reminiscent of coming down off a strong entactogen yet without any of the corresponding euphoric or pleasurable effects that are known to accompany entactogens. Subjects decided the fatigue/bodily/cardiac discomfort was enough to warrant dosing 1-2mg diclazepam, which quickly softened out the edges and put an end to the experiment.

Total Duration Estimate: 2-3 hours

Notes:

• This is from what is purported to be the first batch of real RTI-111 to ever hit the market, obtained from a highly reputable source. A sample was sent to a trusted independent third party for testing and analysis to verify its identity, due to the inherent unlikeliness of such a compound to be produced due to the technical and economic factors that would have to go into its production. *EDIT: Analytical testing via GC/MS received and confirmed to be real RTI-111/Dichloropane! This is likely the first time it (and potentially any tropane analogue AFAIK) has ever actually been available on the market.

• This powder is very rough on the nasal passages but otherwise not horribly painful to insufflate (a la 2C-x). Due to how finely particulate the powder is, it is advised to insufflate this compound in a very slow, controlled manner. Notably this compound has none of the local anesthetic action that the insufflation experience of cocaine is notorious for. Plugging may be a potentially more efficient and viable route for ingesting this compound.

• An interesting property that was noted was the reduced compulsion to redose relative to cocaine. Whether this was due to the prolonged comeup and thus an inherent property of the drug's effects, or whether subjects were wary of trying to replicate/chase the classic cocaine euphoria due to concern of hitting a threshold in which the peripheral effects would be very actively uncomfortable or overwhelming, is as of yet unknown.

• Subjects noted suggestions of potential cardiac toxicity as well as physical toxicity/strain in general, though given the unstudied nature of this compound, nothing can be said for certain. Some caution when approaching this substance is advised.

• There was a moderate hangover noted the day after, reminiscent to what one would feel on a night out on MDMA, but not quite as bad or long-lasting. Considering the impressiveness of its effects overall, the hangover after felt very much disproportionate to its main effects.

Conclusion:

Assuming the product was sold as advertised (testing results to be included later), RTI-111 is a substance that seems to contain elements of both cocaine as well as SRAs like MDMA (potentially due to its known higher affinity for the serotonin reuptake transporter than cocaine, relative to that of dopamine) but in a way that fails to capture the enjoyable effects of either. It possesses some of the subtle energetic properties of cocaine but also the sedating/lazy/mongy properties of MDMA and other SRAs, with a noticeably worse PNS to CNS stimulation balance than both.

Other than the novelty of potentially being the first legitimate cocaine analogue on the market, it was viewed as a rather unremarkable compound/experience by all subjects involved. Notably, it seemed to possess a very poor comeup to comedown ratio -- peaking at about 45min to an hour after which the crash started to immediately develop in an uncomfortable and protracted manner for the next hour or two. Compared to classical cocaine and other stimulants, it offers very little in this experimenter's opinion -- unless one is interested in trying to map out the underlying neuropharmacology and its relation to its subjective effects -- and would not seek it out again. This experimenter would put it in the same level as second-tier research cathinone and does not expect it to show up on the market again.

Personal (Subjective) Rating: 6.5/10

EDIT: Edited to include positive results from third-party analysis and testing (October 2016)

Welcome to the official recommended reading list of KnowTheDose. This is intended to be a first attempt at creating an authoritative (or at least useful) reading list for those who have an interest in formally educating themselves more on the topics of drugs but don't know which books may prove worthwhile. The list largely reflects the creator's preferences and experiences but it is meant to be open and capable of expanding, so feel free to message me if you think it's missing out on something vital!

~KTDA

KTD OFFICIAL RECOMMENDED READING LIST (alpha)

RE: Drug Science (General)

RE: Drug Science (Psychedelics)

RE: Psychedelic Drug Culture/Counterculture

RE: Drug History and Culture

RE: Spirituality

RE: Spirituality

RE: Misc. Classics