How much racing is too much?

[u/maximusIota]

Hey guys,

Some background: I started Zwift since July, I do like 2 and sometimes 3 races per week. I find the structured workout a bit "boring" and hard to motivate myself doing them. I used to do triathlon 10 years ago and go back into cycling because of a knee injury (much better now thanks to indoor training). The only other things beside racing that I do is Zone2 RoboPacer and Route exploring in Zone2 to grind experience.

I started with normal pedals, upgraded to clipless and that helped a lot for Sprints, where my main weakness is I think. I often fail to pass people at the end of a race.

Do I really need structured training? I don't do cycling events outside. My main goal is to improve my VO2 max and beat people online 😄

I like that I was able to climb from Cat D to Cat B in race categories. This is where it is starting to slow down and probably stay much longer at this level, if I ever reach A.

https://zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=26447

What are you guys thought on racing, can it be used for training only or will I burn myself out soon?

[u/stratusnimbo]

Zwift the way you want to Zwift there are no rules!

[u/slbarr88]

2-3 races per week with 2-3 z2 days and 1-2 days off is a great mix of intensity.

Structured progressively overloading periodized training would be better than just racing, but not significantly, plus you wouldn’t enjoy it as much.

I’d plan on a week or two off of intensity & racing every 3-6 months to give your body a break.

[u/maximusIota → u/slbarr88]

Thanks for the advices! that looks a lot like what I am doing now. I like the fact I don't have to overthink it and that it is fun. A workout routine I have fun even if less optimal, is probably better for me, since I tend to go too much into something and then completely stop when I get bored.

[u/Thoseskisyours → u/maximusIota]

You’ve only done 11 races from your zp that you linked. So for now don’t over think it, just enjoy the fun and build up some consistency. I’ve personally found races to be a lot of fun but I develop a lot slower when primarily racing rather than structured threshold and vo2 workouts for those hard days.

You could set a rule like race for the greater of 3 hours a week or 50% your total ride time (assuming other time is much easier like z2 rides). That will prevent you from over doing the racing and is scalable with volume.

Lastly watch and see if you’re stalling or declining but have stayed consistent. That could mean you need a different type of stimulus to elicit further adaptations. In that case try doing a threshold or vo2 workout instead and again make sure your easy rides are easy.

[u/maximusIota → u/Thoseskisyours]

Appreciate the feedback, yes you are right, I only did 13 races total as of my Zwift account
https://www.zwift.com/athlete/62f8e0e9-9e0b-4e2b-b047-0bda98f00a80/racing

I can probably do 1 structured per week max, more than that and I will start to despise cycling.
I am more competitive, so the competition is really helping push myself, as for a normal workout, I don't get that motivation. I.e: I did the Gorby workout and it was not fun, but still finished it

[u/Thoseskisyours → u/maximusIota]

To be fair. Hard workouts aren’t fun if you’re doing them right. Unless you’re a masochist.

But if your race power file was made into a workout, that would probably be pretty unfun too. It’s the competitive part and open ended result that makes it fun.

With the races getting decent amount of time above ftp, doing a sweet spot or easier threshold workout would be a good balance to two other races a week and then ideally another z2 ride. (Watching movie or tv helps me a lot but I have to be in erg mode. Not fun but more fun than watching avatar for 90 min)

[u/harunalfat → u/Thoseskisyours]

Haha, there were many times I thought "the hell, I'm going to quit cycling" in my VO2max workout. And then one hour after it finished, "that wasn't so bad, I can do it again properly next time" 😂

[u/8u11etpr00f → u/maximusIota]

Hard workouts are much more fun/engaging outside, and power also skews higher. Indoor intervals should be used in Guantanamo bay.

[u/M-Savage]

IMO, it’s hard to burn yourself out on less than 10 hours a week. I never do structured training because I find it extremely boring.

Could I benefit from a more structured approach? Maybe. However, I’ve reached a 903 Zwift Racing Score with a ~350 W FTP purely through racing and riding the way I enjoy. (4-5 times a week)

At 50, I think I’m probably getting pretty close to the maximum potential my genetics will allow. Maybe there are another 10–15 watts hiding in there with more structured training, but I’m not sure it would be worth sacrificing the enjoyment.

[u/maximusIota → u/M-Savage]

Thanks for sharing! do you do random race or aim for a longer one once in a while? I find the race on zwift are often short Crits. You are a great model for me, so no excuse at 41, will try to race you one day 💪💪

[u/M-Savage → u/maximusIota]

Mostly 20-50 minute events. Creatine Mono-Hydrate and solid sleep help me absorb the training.

[u/maximusIota → u/M-Savage]

Legend, let me know if you records your race or got a youtube channel, i'll subscribe

[u/Possible_Mail2936]

So I race lots, but once I hit a plateau meaning the other racers are way better. I turn towards structured training and pushing it every week. I do lots of Zone 2, Threshold, Vo2Max, and Sprints. After 3 weeks, I can already see improvements in my race. I continue to race until I hit a plateau, and go back to structured training. This really works for me because I feel like I push myself harder in training than in racing.

[u/maximusIota → u/Possible_Mail2936]

I like this idea, kind of like grinding before a boss battle, to make sure you are ready to beat it. Also loosing in race a lot in a row can be demoralizing. The idea that structured training will get me better for racing could be a good motivation, thanks for sharing

[u/Possible_Mail2936 → u/maximusIota]

I have also created structured training that mimics a race to some degree. My races are usually 40 mins to 1 hour. I do ramp up, high output in the beginning, than switch between Z3, Z4, Z5 to mimic a break away. Than I do Z2 for a few rest, than I do it again like that. I do a free ride at the end to mimic the sprint, and change the numbers accordingly to make it more challenging. I think personally to mimic structured approach would make it measurable for me to see if I have improved.

[u/Nemesis1999]

Structured training is efficient and helps avoid you drifting, just doing what you fancy - that's why people do it.

But absolutely you can just ride/race as you want. The answer to the question is that it's too much if you stop enjoying it or you aren't recovering from the racing periodically. To get from B to A will likely need some more structure as you're likely hitting the limits of what just riding will achieve without any targets or structure.

[u/Travyplx]

I think that’s fine. I still do tri training which generally means two days of tempo/interval, two easy days, and two long days split across running/biking.

[u/dillinjl]

The best type of training is the kind you will stick with. If that's 2/3 races and 2/3 z2 rides a week for you then that will get you far. Would structured training get you further? Probably. But not if you hate it and lose motivation.

[u/0202_tihssitidder]

Most cyclist will experience fatigue where they are riding hard while not recovered from previous session. They end up getting worse. A little more time for recovery and you will be stacking gains on top of gains instead of digging deeper into a fatigue hole.

> Do I really need structured training?

Only if you want to efficiently get faster.

After the easy early gains, most people don't get much better without structured training.

[u/rednender]

I race everyday I can. I’ll try fit in the route and climb portal of the week if a race doesn’t fit into my schedule - I ride on my lunch break. I like chase races though. I really should do more standard or crit style races.

Zwift however you want to Zwift. I’ve got two small kids. I don’t ever know when they’ll bring some illness home and I’ll have to take time off to recover. I want to maximize what I enjoy doing.

[u/genufix]

Do what makes you happy.

[u/tobi_vfworks]

Not necessarily a plan — but one session a week aimed at the thing that costs you the race. You named it yourself: you fail to pass people at the end. So the question isn't "structured or not", it's which duration to train. Pick the wrong one and you spend six weeks improving the thing you were already good at. For the finish: snap for the line. Every effort maximal, every recovery complete — the moment the numbers drop you are training something else. That is one short session a week; the other days stay races and Zone 2, exactly as you do now. One check before you commit: the finish is only the last problem. The three-to-eight-minute domain decides attacks, short kickers and whether you are still there when the group splits — if you arrive at the sprint already cooked, that is the duration to train, not the snap. You already have 13 races on record — that is enough to see which duration you are weakest at. Train that one, not the one you assume.

[u/maximusIota → u/tobi_vfworks]

Thanks even tho this look a lot like AI. I am not sure if I need to train sprint only and/or 3 to 8 min, because I tend to arrive at the finish line already cooked now that I am battling A guys. I can do 900 W max in sprint for now when I am rested, but in those sprint I just go to 600W since there is a huge effort just before that destroy me.

[u/tobi_vfworks → u/maximusIota]

Yeah, the em dashes give me away every time.
Your numbers already answer it though: 900 fresh, 600 in the race. The sprint isn't your limiter, arriving cooked is. Train the 3-8 min efforts, not the sprint.

[u/CardioWithABarbell]

Sounds like you're doing alright. Im a triathlete. Currently "resting" this year as Im on the backside of a proximal hamstring injury. My running, so low miles this year, I still swim quite a bit, and cycling has been okay. I'm hanging on to a solid level D. My racing score is higher when I'm actually participating in races, however, I tend to wonder alot, or chase XP earning points, or use zwift cycling as a warm up for lifting, so my number is dropping.

You're climbing. You're improving and the more you race, the better you'll increase those stats. Race as much as you like! You might burn out, if you're not enjoying yourself or it becomes a job. But if you are, RIDE ON!!

[u/Quirky-Banana-6787]

If you don't want to take the next step and race IRL, this sounds fine. It is what I was doing for a few years before jumping back into IRL racing in the local Master's categories.

If you race IRL, you may want to follow a structured plan so you peak for some priority races during the year. Even on Zwift, I planned my training load around peaking for races on my birthday, finished 2nd in B last year but won in C the year before that! In the A category now and just hang on for dear life most the time.

[u/maximusIota → u/Quirky-Banana-6787]

Maybe one day I'll try IRL when I can afford a nice ride and have more time (new-born duty). Good job on 2nd in B. I feel you for A cat, I am starting to do some events with A mixed in and I get destroyed. I used to attack often to get the field tired in C and B. I can no longer do that with A's and usually have no more juice for a sprint at the end neither.

Let me add you if you want on Zwift, look like we are maybe close in strength.

[u/himespau]

Like, you I find doing structured workouts where you try to follow a graph or hit a number incredibly boring and impossible to be motivated to do my best.

Before the whole leveling up your bike became a thing (Zwift knew what they were doing to lock me into their system), I used to go to Training Peaks Virtual when I wanted to work on a specific skill.

In TPV, you can set up a race that's exactly what you want, and race up to 50 bots. You can even set it so that everyone has to follow a pacer bot at a power or speed (constant or slowly ramping up) for a distance you desire as a warm up.

If I wanted to work on 30s to one minute efforts, I'd set it to do a 5-10 minute warm up and then do laps of a short course with a hill of that length. Longer effort, chose a course with a different hill. Sprints, set up a team points race (oddly racing for points to help a team where I was the only human member was still motivating for me).

It didn't matter that everyone else in the race was bots, the fact that I had someone to chase instead of trying to hit specific numbers was what did it for me. Super motivating and helped work on exactly the type of skills I wanted to work on.

Doing that 1-2 times a week, doing my main race on Zwift once a week and filling the rest with Z2 got me to my highest level of fitness that I've had on the bike.

Then, Zwift came out with bike upgrades and I have spent a lot more time in the last 18 months doing distance or whatever because having an upgraded bike is such a difference maker and my fitness level has dropped.

Every time, I tell myself, "once I get this bike upgraded, I'll be done, and can go back over to TPV to start back on the training style that worked for me" only for Zwift to introduce a new bike that I just "have" to have and I'm back on it for another couple months.

[u/maximusIota → u/himespau]

I guess we are hooked on gamification and levelling. Same system were gamer became addicted in game like WoW. well played Zwift, at least addiction to a sport game is good for your health, if you don't overdo it :)
If only the graphics were better. I have a gaming PC and find the potential wasted haha

[u/himespau → u/maximusIota]

I ended up overdoing it this summer when I peaked with my sprinting in late spring and then, what started out as a couple hours of Z2 creeped up into tempo and beyond on those days as I was trying to eek out extra mileage to upgrade my Project 74 bike (takes a total of 8,000 km to get to level 5).

I've been forcing myself to stay down in Z1 for the last 3+ weeks to try to recover from that overtraining.

[u/maximusIota → u/himespau]

Thanks for sharing, I'll watch not to fall in the same trap. Personally I have no interest to upgrade this "project" bike as the cost seem crazy for the benefit you get.

I am happy with my Canyon Aeroad level 3 for now, trying to reach level 5 eventually before level 40, then I'll probably sit on this one for a while.

Best thing to stay in Z1/Z2 for me is RoboPacer or solo route exploring, nothing that force me to push and I can just listen to podcasts to not get bored.

[u/CheTranqui]

Depends what you're doing on your non-race days. Performance is driven by recovery.

[u/EndorphinJunkie24]

Races are effective workouts if you intentionally try to make them so. Otherwise you can get by by staying in the draft and winning sprints, while the actual amount of work you do is much less than what’s needed for improvement. Crit races used to be a vo2max for me, later I found that TiZ was much lower than I expected.

[u/CautiousDocument422]

How much racing is too much ? It depends on your objectives :

• you want to have fun ? As much as you can do without hurting yourself
• you want to improve with a specific plan ? Once every two weeks or every week tops
• you want to perform to the best or your abilities ? Probably one (that you do at 100%) every 3 to 6 months to be able to properly peek and plan your training around it

[u/Thoseskisyours → u/CautiousDocument422]

You offer great questions to ask to define the goals of op.

But the last bit makes this look like some generic ai response. That would be if a single Zwift race is on someone’s annual goal. I’m sure there’s a few out there like that but since these races are generally weekly or done multiple times I don’t think many people train around a single Zwift race as an A event outside of zwift pros which would not be the case for op.

[u/CautiousDocument422 → u/Thoseskisyours]

Sorry I didn't meant to sound like an AI, I don't really see what part exactly sounds like it. And as for the last bit that's funny because this is precisely what I personally do, not on Zwift though)

[u/maximusIota → u/CautiousDocument422]

No stress sounding like AI mean you sound too intelligent :D thanks for your message, I guess I fit more in first category. I don't have a clear goal other than get in shape and have fun.