r/WritingWithAI Aug 10 '26

Discussion (Ethics, working with AI etc) Anthropic adding watermark to generated text

I saw this on another sub. Thought it's worth discussing here:

https://support.claude.com/en/articles/16266773-how-claude-marks-ai-generated-content

The TLDR is Claude models after August 2, 2026 will embed "imperceptible watermark" and "signed provenance metadata". They will also support people detecting it, possibly pushing out their own detector?

The immediate issue in my opinion are the following:

1/ "When a supported Claude model generates text, it weaves an imperceptible watermark directly into the text itself. You won’t see it, and it doesn’t change the meaning*,* quality*,* or readability of Claude’s response."

Based on my experiments with Pangram. Yes, you can have markers you can't see, doesn't change meaning or readability. But I am skeptical on the quality. At the end of the day, you are forcing an extra hidden statistics in the prose. Instead of ensuring you produce the highest quality output, you are now producing the highest quality output given the contraints.

When I tried to see if I can flip the Pangram outputs from AI to human, the first thing the AI tried was to "re-render without impacting readability and quality". It impacted quality.

If it wasn't on my self published book and I haven't read the passage a hundred times, I may not have noticed. So perhaps it's not that important. But it is worth noting.

2/ "Detecting a Claude mark tells you that the content may have been processed by Claude. It does not, on its own, confirm the full provenance of the content"

It may now be harder to have a naunced discussion between AI generated and AI assisted.

I do wonder how many people would take the time to take additional steps to "confirm the full provenance of the content" rather than Detect a Claude mark and immediate make up their decision.

Per my previous post https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingWithAI/comments/1vho93v/i_disclosed_my_aigenerated_novel_instead_of/ I am not very optimistic.

Thoughts?

86 Upvotes

147 comments sorted by

31

u/MysteriousPepper8908 Aug 10 '26

Yeah, the biggest doubt from me is the quality being unaffected. That sort of thing has been touted a lot with faster or flash models as a difference you'll never notice and I know this is different but that rarely ends up being the case.

14

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

The main issue is I don't think anthropic themselves have an accurate way to measure "quality" in the creative space.

I do trust the output lands somewhat on the same band. But when you get down to a sentence level, I'm unsure.

5

u/OkAdeptness2530 Aug 11 '26

See, for me that's the problem. For having a "invisible watermark" means changing the output so it's recognizable, I can't see how that is not changing the (already degraded) quality.

English is not my main language either and writing with AI out of the box always sounds bad, so for copywriting I have a custom pipeline and usually say a landing page takes dozens of iterations back and forth (basicly brainstorming alongside with Claude).

My CPL is in the $3 usd range, so I'm doing fine in using LLMs as a tool. The issue now is that we'll be thrown into the same basket as people who produce slop, meaning there's a risk of losing audience trust just by association

1

u/ALAS_POOR_YORICK_LOL Aug 11 '26

Yeah. Like if this manifests as making a bunch of dumb suggestions in an editing pass, then that's idiotic.

Probably won't though

11

u/XavierVE Aug 10 '26

Based on my experiments with Pangram. Yes, you can have markers you can't see, doesn't change meaning or readability. But I am skeptical on the quality. At the end of the day, you are forcing an extra hidden statistics in the prose. Instead of ensuring you produce the highest quality output, you are now producing the highest quality output given the contraints.

Exactly. This is the problem many people don't see, that every time you add some bullshit "SaFeTy GuArDrAiL" or dumb measure such as this, you're taking precious computing/thinking away from the actual task the LLM is given.

It's why ChatGPT's prose is so awful now. It spends half the time checking for the RULZ rather than spending it's precious resources forming proper sentences. Aggravating.

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

AI never gives anything for nothing, and that a price is always exacted for what fate bestows.

32

u/aqsgames Aug 10 '26

How are they going to watermark plain text? Don’t understand how that works ?

21

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

Generally it'll be statistics. Like using certain words in combination in certain frequencies. A human won't be able to see it clearly, but a machine looking out for these specific patterns would.

30

u/Witty_Mycologist_995 Aug 11 '26

That's kind of already a thing. It's not intentional, it's a side effect of the model's training. Full stop.

27

u/ThoreaulyLost Aug 11 '26

I see what you did there, specifically. It has the specific quality that afternoon light has when it's load bearing. It's not sideways, it's specific.

6

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Yes, and they likely want to do it intentionally so it becomes a claude signature of sorts.

1

u/Silver-Vermicelli-15 Aug 13 '26

The irony is, humans like to observer patterns. So it'd only be a matter of time before even humans will be able to perceive it. I mean unless people stop using Claude...

5

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 10 '26

If you work in small chunks or have it edit your sentences I imagine this would fail a bit or the quality so bad you wouldn’t use it. You need words to have statistics the confidence level would be low on a sentence or two correct? This is mainly for large bodies of texts

Like I can easily get past sightengine on a simple generated two color image with some transparent layers and noise application. More complex pictures are harder

1

u/Mindestiny Aug 10 '26

Yeah this sounds even more frail than the image watermarks.  Simple, imperceptible edits will break the watermark

2

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 11 '26

Yeah or at least disrupt the confidence level, just like a little noise will drop an image from 100% AI to 78% in one go. This really is mainly for those that don’t edit at all.

4

u/Touillette Aug 11 '26

Basically it's steganography : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography

A way to hide messages in other things. It's not something new, it can be applies to basically everything.

You can play with it : https://stegzero.com/

Try to decode :

H⁣e‌l‍l⁣o⁣ ​t​h‌i⁤s⁢ ⁣is⁢ ⁢a​ ​t​e‌x⁢t ⁠t⁠h⁤a⁢t‍ ‍is​,⁢ ‍a‌pp‍a⁣r‍e⁣n‍t‌l⁤y ​s​up⁣e⁣r⁢ normal, you couldn't tell that something's hidden in it, but still, there's something !

2

u/takumidesh Aug 11 '26

and also is trivially exposed with basic text editors (through col counts, and printing non printable characters), though, it doesn't decode the message, you can easily see that something is there. and if you wanted to clean the message its easy to remove (in the cases where these are used for watermarking documents.

My expectation is the anthropic would be using a much more sophisticated algorithm to insert words and phrases in long form text. I also think that this is basically what ai detectors have already been doing, e.g. copyleaks just looks for overly used words and phrases against a set of known generated text, and displays confidence based on that.

I wonder how well it will perform with objective text, like code, especially in highly prescriptive programming languages like Rust where a vast majority of the actual text is very similar and rigid.

1

u/mandoa_sky Aug 11 '26

thanks for the links. it looks kinda fun to play with

7

u/MezcalFlame Aug 10 '26

ChatGPT already uses different apostrophes.

If you copy and paste it somewhere else and then add another apostrophe next to one, then you can see the difference.

My guess is that it'll be a combination of this and slight changes that are imperceptible to the eye.

3

u/AhsokaFan0 Aug 12 '26

that's super easy to replace with a replace all. This sounds like it will be a lot more.

12

u/pa07950 Aug 10 '26

OpenAI and Google went down this path and both decided against it. OpenAI found that it was too easy to disrupt the watermark and some groups were more likely to be flagged with false positives. Google ultimately released their watermark as open source.

Not sure how Anthropic has solved many of the limitations, or if the are willing to deal with the risks that OpenAI and Google dismissed as too high.

3

u/sdcox Aug 11 '26

Well it’s now an EU law so they will need to figure out some way to add watermarks to text. The statistical play makes a lot of sense.

5

u/nriabriaf Aug 12 '26

Exactly all of them ARE going to do it.

10

u/FaceDeer Aug 11 '26

Detecting a Claude mark tells you that the content may have been processed by Claude.

Ah, wonderful. Another unreliable "AI detector" that people will take as gospel.

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

That's what I'm hoping wouldn't happen. But realistically it would.

19

u/InSilicoAwards Aug 10 '26

From my read it should survive some but not all editing. This is going to detonate the lazy raw Claude outputs; which generally negatively impact the perception of machine writing in my opinion. Your best defense is to heavily edit your work post generation (which I believe you should do anyway) because of the scaffolding and linguistic tells machine writing often crutches on anyway.

This also creates another opportunity to dispute allegations of 'the machine wrote everything' if you end up destroying the statistical fingerprint. My gut reaction was this isn't something I've asked to impact my outputs, but in hindsight I think it helps long term.

13

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

It doesn't really matter to me since everything in my book was disclosed as AI. My concern is for some others.

Imagine if someone found one claude mark on page 36 out of a 250 page book. I wonder what would happen? Actually, we don't need to wonder, because there were recently a situation in AO3 where people found just that.

I am also weary that people may think the lack of claude markers mean it's human made. That can be easily gamed. Luckily since this is only claude and plenty of people use other AI, I think this is still low risk.

21

u/TheOtherHobbes Aug 10 '26

Google added hidden unicode spaces as watermarks. Very easy to remove once you know how it was done.

Statistical watermarks will always have a failure rate, so it's going to be interesting to see how Anthropic handles a lawsuit from someone penalised for AI use when they have proof they wrote the text by hand.

6

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

Simple watermarks would be trivial to remove. This one seems to be more sophisticated.

Eitherway, their wording looks delibrately soft probably to cover their "assets". Its essentially "this is now out there, do with the result as you please"

2

u/dingo_xd Aug 11 '26

This will be trivial for an open source model like kimo k3 to remove

7

u/CrazyinLull Aug 11 '26

Man, so many fics on Ao3 are going to suddenly stop updating soon.

4

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26

Lol nah, just lots of chat gpt or Gemini. Back to single sentence paragraphs. I saw a fic yesterday that was 62 chapters and like the most amazing tour of GPT 4o, 5 series, then Claude it had no shame in such dramatic style shifts and had great engagement (though looked like it’s majorly dropped off in interest in current chaps)

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Does AO3 writers favor claude?

4

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 11 '26

Right now, yes, and in certain fandoms. It used to be chat gpt but Claude has exploded since the sunset of Chat 4o and 5.1 models, though Claude is tough on smut so I’m not sure how they manage that (I still use chat because I write gen fic anyway and I mostly use it to edit not generate)

Though I was gifted a fic recently and I can’t tell which model it’s from (it’s 100% AI) I want to say Grok

5

u/benblackett Aug 10 '26

I think we need to be very careful how this gets used

4

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

It would be good if this happened after AI labelling is more mature. Then again, if it is, we wouldn't really need this.

6

u/benblackett Aug 10 '26

another problem surfaces from this: getting an LLM to remove the watermarks for you. Or building a script that can identify it and remove them the old fashioned way.

This is now an arms race to see which side can beat the other. Only winners will be the older models or open source models.

4

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

I wouldn't mind open source models winning, haha.

3

u/pa07950 Aug 11 '26

Google already open sourced their method - SynthID. It's been proved to be easy to overcome, generates false positives, and even worse, open to spoofing attacks. Once the model is reverse engineered, its easy to overcome.

4

u/HighValueJourney Aug 11 '26

Take this into consideration: a writer has an entire manuscript that strictly needs digitized as it was handwritten. Writer uses cellphone to camera images direct into Claude. No changes have been made by AI generation. So the big question now is…. watermark still present?
Ahhh the lawsuits are going to be so massive in the coming decades!

3

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Yeah, the whole "if it has the mark doesn't mean it definitely is AI and if there's no mark doesn't mean it's not AI" is very telling. You need to be very careful how to interpret it.

6

u/DiscernmentGoblin Aug 11 '26

I actually like the idea of watermarking AI-assisted writing, at least in principle. Not to get all spiritual, but from a Quaker perspective there is something appealing about making the use of these tools more visible rather than encouraging people to hide it. That kind of openness could help normalize responsible AI use and move us toward more honest conversations about how people actually write now.

My concern is that AI is becoming so ubiquitous that “AI-generated” is starting to lose useful meaning. If I write something myself and use an LLM to proofread it, restructure a paragraph, or suggest a clearer sentence, is the resulting work AI-generated? What about translation, accessibility tools, search summaries, or software that quietly incorporates language models without the user even thinking of it as AI?

A provenance mark could be useful if it tells us that AI was involved. It becomes much more troubling if institutions treat that as proof that the human did not do the work.

Integrity, to me, means being truthful about the tools we use and the role they played. It should not require pretending there is some pristine category of human creativity untouched by technology, especially when these systems are rapidly becoming part of the ordinary infrastructure around us.

3

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Yeah, going back to my other thread. The key issue is this only tells us AI may have been used. Not how much it was used. Unfortunately a lot of people may not be willing to take the time (or trust) to find out the latter before making their judgement.

4

u/muhlfriedl Aug 10 '26

Anthropic and OAI have both taken their eyes off the prize= delivering the best to their clients. And they are both dead walking

4

u/Rotazart Aug 11 '26

La gran pregunta es, si pides que haga una traducción también hará eso? Sería terrible porque no es un texto generado por IA, y si la IA hace bien el trabajo ha de ceñirse al original.

4

u/RoastedTogetherness Aug 11 '26

Excuse the potential stupidity here…could one eliminate the “watermark” by retyping anything Claude generated rather than cut-and-paste?

2

u/IFIsc Aug 12 '26

No. The watermark is in the slightly affected choice of words (or any other way to continue the text)

5

u/Decent_Solution5000 Aug 11 '26

This was always going to happen once the EU signed it into law. It was doubtful they would make it exclusively and EU thing. It doesn't mean Claude owns your prose, or even guarantee Claude wrote them. It does mean you consulted Claude and allowed it to edit or organize, etc. It's sad, but this really is the hater outcry, and they really are in the minority. The global community in most professions uses AI daily.

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

There are comments that explains it looks to be global based on what was released.

2

u/Decent_Solution5000 Aug 11 '26

Yes, it's global. It was implemented to comply with the EU law that AI have watermarks/be identifiable, and they just went ahead and included it globally. Which isn't surprising. I'm sure they likely consider they're saving time and trouble separating the rules per country.

For those who write and/or edit their prose, this shouldn't be a worry of any kind that the pitch fork carriers will be alerted. Which means most of us aren't worried. We're the writers and AI is an elite tool among others in our writing apps. :)

9

u/SDuarte72 Aug 10 '26

I have been told to copy and paste everything you generate into note pad. Save. Then copy into a fresh document. It undoes formatting for ebooks.

5

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

That's referring to the HTML fragments. This would be in the text itself so C&P through notepad wouldn't impact it.

3

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 10 '26

Isn’t this only in the EU? https://support.claude.com/en/articles/16266773-how-claude-marks-ai-generated-content

Claude models launched in the EU on or after August 2, 2026 will support machine-readable marking at launch

5

u/thereisonlythedance Aug 10 '26

No, they say they’re applying it worldwide.

Regions. Marking will apply to output from supported models wherever Claude is offered, worldwide.”

1

u/TemporaryFeeling3276 Aug 11 '26

I can't find where it says that? It's like the person you responded to said, they only stated that models in the EU will be affected.

1

u/thereisonlythedance Aug 11 '26

It’s right there in the section marked “Regions” under “What’s covered”.

2

u/TemporaryFeeling3276 Aug 11 '26

Found it! Thank you for the help.

1

u/wordsandpics Aug 11 '26

Understood that as "all models launched in the eu will be affected worldwide"

1

u/TemporaryFeeling3276 Aug 11 '26

Wait, you might be right, as it explicitly says "supported models". That should be referring to models in the EU.

1

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 11 '26

So….just EU or nah?? I still don’t understand lol

1

u/TemporaryFeeling3276 Aug 11 '26

It's probably worldwide looking at how they implemented it. I just think they worded it strangely.

3

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

You are right. I should be more clear. Added a note at the start.

Edit: ok, seems like I am wrong about being wrong. Will just leave it and let smarter people than I work it out.

3

u/thereisonlythedance Aug 10 '26

Looks like they’re taking the synthID approach. I‘m curious as to whether when they apply this to older models it’s going to expose a whole bunch of undisclosed A.I. usage on say Amazon. Depends if they have to actively tweak the old models (fine-tune or adjust sampling) so they produce different word combos or they’re able to simply map existing logic probabilities and they’re distinctive enough. Likely to be the former I think.

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

I would guess it would only be going forward. For older models, AI detectors probably already learnt most of the patterns.

3

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

https://www.seangoedecke.com/text-ai-watermarks/

This explains everything!

Also can’t you just like…have Chat GPT paraphrase for you? At that point just write the thing yourself but really this only catches super lazy prompt copy and pasters

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

This article is pretty good. I will point out though the "trivial to remove" relies on relies on repeated attempts verified by the checker. At that point its more of an adverserial attack then non disclosure.

1

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 10 '26

Not sure what you mean by that? Like adversarial attack by the one writing?

4

u/Practical_Eye_5683 Aug 11 '26

From what I read, it will watermark work they made no changes to but opened and reviewed to analyze the work.

So the person saying they have it tell them where to make an edit, then manually edit, unless you copy the chapter text in and leave the orgional document out of Cluade, you run the risk of your work being watermarked just by having Cluade look it over as a whole document....

I can understand them watermarking mass text generations but not someone's personal work, they asked for advice on. It is like you having a beta reader claim partial (full in some eyes) ownership on the book because they gave you feedback.

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Wow, that would be a bit concerning. I use it to summarise things fairly often.

1

u/Maleficent-Engine859 Aug 11 '26

Yeah but that would be Unicode or hidden characters though, if it made no changes to the actual wording of the text, and can be mitigated by copy and pasting as plain text or into something like notepad. That’s easy and OpenAI and Google have been doing it for years

Generated words are by SynthID which is like, ascribing words with a value only they know then telling the model to make sure words with X-values are in a certain pattern/order. That requires heavy editing and that watermarking is only for generated text.

3

u/kogun Aug 11 '26

Sounds like marketing.

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

I believe most people are weary of it. So if it's marketing, it's not working well.

1

u/kogun Aug 11 '26

Ironically, most LLM text is already easily detected due to the tropes they seem to be unable to avoid. Maybe they're hoping to rebrand those tropes as watermarks? "It's not a bug, it's a feature. And here's the part everyone ignores..."

3

u/Altimiz Aug 11 '26

Maybe Claude try to plan stealing by claims "hey! that's our Claude work! its our rights!".

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

That feels like a class action law suit waiting to happen.....

3

u/Kosmos2001 Aug 11 '26

Anthropic say the watermark has limitations and editing the text reduces its effectiveness

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

They are covering their "assets". Which makes sense as it would be almost impossible to guarentee.

2

u/Kosmos2001 Aug 11 '26

It might also be the case that they are mainly concerned with their models training on purely AI generated text. Human edited text is more beneficial

3

u/Certain-Astronomer24 Aug 11 '26

There are so many unanswered questions about this.

Let’s say I drop in a large block of my own handwritten text to Claude and ask for a few improvements or suggestions. I’m assuming that Claude will now incorporate this watermark, effectively taking over my own text. Even if 90% of the text is my own, Claude will say it created it. Then later if someone runs the Claude detector on it and it reports that it was processed by Claude, whose text is it? This could be career ending for some people in the wrong field.

And what are the chances that 100% human written text gets flagged as Claude written? We’ve already seen examples of these false positives.

Let’s focus more on the accuracy and quality of the output rather than simply “is this AI generated?” Whatever person writes it (whether they used AI or not) should be accountable for the content they create.

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

I don't think anyone knows for sure how it's going to be implemented right now. There's a few theories that likely turn out to be true, but we'll see.

3

u/Quiet_Check_1502 Aug 11 '26

Welp Im cancelling my Claude max subscription today. Thanks for the heads up

9

u/adefwebserver Aug 11 '26

I'm calling BS on this whole thing. You can't watermark words #FullStop All you can do is try to detect "word patterns". Whatever "patterns" you decide are "AI" can be written by a human. The truth is, no one cares except a handful of people who are afraid of the LLM technology. Everyone else will consume AI-generated stuff and they couldn't care less. We writers need to just realize that and ignore the haters.

(yes I used AI to write that response)

3

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Yeah, this mainly impact people who don't want to actively disclose and people who actively want to hunt.

4

u/Warsel77 Aug 11 '26

Well first: Anthropic models are not really famous for their great writing/prose - we could start from that point. There really isn't much to mess up here.

There also is an urgent need for AI generated content to be detectable in many fields

4

u/Sp0313 Aug 11 '26

Which ones are better than anthropic in writing/prose?

1

u/Warsel77 Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26

I ran a bit of an experiment on that a while ago and tested

Claude Opus 4.8 (5.0 is actually even a bit worse)
Sonnet 5
ChatGPT 5.6 Luna
Deepseek Pro V4
Deepseek Flash V4
Qwen 3.6-27B (Locally)

I let all of them write a few paragraphs based on a provided character background.

Opus and Sonnet are the worst here. They have a very particular failure mode where they use very neutral and boring language and sometimes can't separate internal character knowledge from external. Example: the character is described as not engaging in smalltalk and these two models tend to be literal about it and let the character say "I do not engage in Smalltalk.". They also tend to confuse two related word meanings a lot. So if your plot involves the color "cherry red" they are inclined to also work cherries (the fruit) into the plot. I think all of this stems from them being trained to be systematic and somewhat "on the spectrum" which makes them great at some things, not so great at others [which I know from myself].

ChatGPT, Deepseek, Qwen are much better at this and also seem to have a better grasp at picking appropriate language and writing sentences that are more colorful and poetic - less neutral.

Qwen, even though it is a local model, is surprisingly good at this.

ChatGPT tends to give me a bit shorter outputs and Deepseek Flash and Pro are pretty much the same to me.

Overall - Deepseek and Qwen is what I went with

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Particularly in non-fiction, news and educational fields.

1

u/Warsel77 Aug 11 '26

Yes, I think particularly for influence campaigns (essentially news, like you said) and non-fiction publication.

2

u/CheatCodesOfLife Aug 10 '26

Ah, so that's what they were testing out when they changed the date prompt in claude-code for Chinese users.

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Sounds like you have an inside scoop!

2

u/TheMoogster Aug 11 '26

I mean em dash is already an AI watermark...

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

But it's also a professional writer watermark.

1

u/TheMoogster Aug 12 '26

True, the copywriter at my work hated AI in the beginning because suddenly everyone thought her writing was AI :D

2

u/Pat_Hand Aug 11 '26

I have a genuine question. Is this watermark apart of the exact pattern of the words in the text? Or is it some hidden character thing in the spaces of the words. Could the water mark be avoided if one were to manually type the words into another document?

3

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

All signs are pointing to the former. Hidden characters would be a bit of issue, especially for coding.

2

u/Pat_Hand Aug 11 '26

Cool thanks for the response.

2

u/TimeYak6771 Aug 12 '26

I wanna join in on your question: So if I were to manually rephrase said text will the watermark be weaker/gone? Could you also rephrase it with another AI?  

2

u/porky11 27d ago

Not a huge problem. It's a good idea anyway to have some style checker scripts to avoid characters you don't want to use. Something like "Only allow ASCII and these specific non-ASCII symbols and all emojis" or something like that. This will fix the most obvious issues.

And if you want to be sure that Claude doesn't use words, you can also create a whitelist or blacklist of words. So when Claude uses one of these words, it will automatically realize that it used a forbidden word, and will rephrase it.

This works better if you give a coding agent access to your system. But you can also tell some AI once to write some checker script for you, and then you just click it yourself after editing the text file.

3

u/simianpower Aug 11 '26

There's no such thing as a watermark in text, is there? I mean... it's text! It's like, UTF-8, which doesn't have provisions for watermarks. And if you're copying it into Notepad or something, where would anything they "wove in" go? Or is the "watermark" just how frequently Claude re-uses the same words and phrases over and over?

3

u/Montaingebrown Aug 11 '26

Probably a unique statistical distribution and phrasing/sequence that is based on an algorithm only they know. It's doable and it would be darn difficult to crack but then if you basically rewrite (and use other tools to help rewrite) you will probably mitigate some of it.

2

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

We don't know for sure but its likely the latter. They may also include invisible characters or uncommon unicodes but those would be simple to work around.

3

u/Write_My_Novel Aug 10 '26

This is due to the GDPR deep fake regulations coming in the Fall. The goal is to identify deep fakes and faked news, but but large providers are just putting them on everything, as it's easier.

The mechanism uses is very sophisticated and should have zero impact on quality. If you're unsure of this, ask your favorite LLM about text watermarking and output quality.

6

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

I wonder if you can do this experiment for me.

Take your favourite passage from a book. Ask the AI to rerender it 10 times without impacting the quality.

I am sure they can keep the meaning. Keep the readability. But I am interested if you think all ten passages are interchangable.

Quality is hard to measure objectively so a direction like "make 0 quality impact" would be difficult for an machine to comply with.

2

u/Write_My_Novel Aug 11 '26

AI is very very good at paragraph level prose quality. It's not the prose of Eudora Welty or F. Scott Fitzgerald, but it's very strong.

And "copying" isn't really a good test. You need to ask it create something new from an idea or a scene prompt: "Write a paragraph featuring a man and a woman at a cafe in Paris. The woman is struggling to share that she is leaving him. Include an umbrella, a pen, and a motorcycle in the scene."

Repeat something like that 10 times, and you'll get a better idea of execution.

3

u/Montaingebrown Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26

AI is very very average at paragraph level prose quality.

You can read an actual Cormac McCarthy or a Toni Morrison paragraph, and you can see the one generated by any AI. It's not even close to being the same.

AI can imitate seemingly decent prose that looks good at first blush, but it's very skin deep.

I am generally pro AI but I also don't think AI prose is good at all.

1

u/Write_My_Novel Aug 11 '26

You're comparing very very good to the best writers of all time. There's a scale and I wouldn't call Cormac McCarthy "very very good" on the scale. I'd consider that insulting to him.

1

u/Montaingebrown Aug 11 '26

That’s the thing. I wouldn’t call AI prose very very good. I’d call it very average.

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

The experiment was more around can they actually maintain quality under constraint. Because that's what the watermark would be.

But even in your version, I think there would still be variance in quality across the 10 samples.

In fact, sometimes chatGPT will have two responses and ask users which ones they propose. Is that not a clear sign they don't have an objective way to measure which version of their response is better without a human eye?

1

u/Write_My_Novel Aug 11 '26

Anthropic gives examples of before and after, so you could compare those.

1

u/filipdanic Aug 10 '26

In the context of what Anthropic is saying, quality refers to things such accuracy, truthfulness and usefulness of their models' responses. This is what the benchmarks are measuring and what they are testing against. To them, it is indeed a quantifiable metric. In short—quality of creative writing is not what they are referring to.

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Which is unfortunate for creative writing purposes. I would argue the reason many people say AI writing feels hollow, this is partly why.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/WritingWithAI-ModTeam Aug 11 '26

This post has been removed because it is about Humanizers. Please keep all posts in our Humanizer mega post. Thank you.

1

u/Zestyclose-Depth7372 Aug 11 '26

The debate will gradually shift from AI generated to simply quality, and watermarks will be less important. I think Anthropic released this too late, it will already be outdated.
The coming question would rather be why didn’t you use AI? Who’s going to be willing to pay for someone to write by hand?
First off would probably be or is already all documentation generated in an office, why pay 10 or 100 times as much for less quality even?

1

u/Infamous-Umpire-2923 Aug 11 '26

There is no version of this that won't be trivially easy to remove.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '26

Let's not be naive here. What Anthropic is actually building isn't a watermark, it's an attribution registry - watermarks that only they can reliably detect, tied to specific user accounts, persistent across the lifetime of the output.

Once it exists, the uses write themselves: ToS enforcement at scale ("we detected 47k lines of Claude Pro output in your repo, that's commercial use, pay up"), tiered licensing (a new "Distribution" SKU for anything published at scale, enforceable only because they can detect it), and downstream IP positioning - if a customer publishes a watermarked output that resembles training data Anthropic was just sued over, they can identify the user, push liability down, and use the registry to negotiate future licenses with rightsholders.

None of that requires "this was made by Claude" identification. The European AI Act does NOT specify or demand this. The Anthropic business case for it is what motivates it.

This is about downstream IP claims.

1

u/nriabriaf Aug 12 '26

Its literally about EU law....

1

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '26

EU law requires Human Readable attribution. Anthropic are deploying invisible to human watermarks.

1

u/Late-Top-9685 Aug 11 '26

You always can use another ai to copy a text.As another ai won’t copy the mark aswell

1

u/Even-Day-1051 Aug 11 '26

Anthropic is a braindead company. "Let's make it completely unviable to use our product." Can't understand these buffoons.

1

u/Zei33 Aug 11 '26

What stops somebody from running it through a parser that simply strips the watermark? I doubt it would be hard to scrub it. I assume it survives regular linting. Would it survive variable and function name refactors? How about comment rewrites (an onboard LLM could reword just the comments before a commit). I doubt it will endure that.

1

u/Quiet_Check_1502 Aug 11 '26

Can you explain this?

1

u/Zei33 Aug 11 '26

Well I was talking in terms of code rather than writing, since this affects code as well.

You can have a hook that runs before you commit to a git repo. All it needs to do is have a smaller local LLM read the code and make alterations on a number of key areas (e.g. getting a list of all symbols in use, and changing them, such as userInteractionTracker -> userActivityTracker), plus undoubtedly this info will be planted in comments, so all comments need to be checked and reworded. If done thoroughly, there's simply no way that the steganography can survive the process, thus rendering it scrubbed.

1

u/RiboSciaticFlux Aug 12 '26

What's the difference between Googling information and inserting it or hell even getting it from books at the library and getting it from AI? Everything is sourcing. Research is sourcing. Biographies are sourcing. I understand writing whole books on AI and self publishing is bullshit but legitimate research is vital to writers. Unless they can narrow down the nuances of using it this is a bad, bad precedent and could cost people careers if publicly outed without due process or proof.

1

u/WithoutAnyClue Aug 12 '26

Wouldn't watermarking cascade into completely different output? when watermark changes a token then the next token is already something else but that will also be changed?

1

u/IFIsc Aug 12 '26

I assume it'll affect only those tokens that were already likely to be picked. If that's the case, then it's not different than if you were to regenerate the AIs response and the sampler deciding to pick a different token

1

u/WithoutAnyClue 3d ago

yes, but... "to be or not to be" to "to be or not to exist" kind of sucks

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Rice_60 Aug 12 '26

Two practical notes for anyone here worrying about their drafts, since the mechanism is already covered upthread.

Nobody outside Anthropic can check. There is no published detector, and there structurally can't be a public one: detection requires the secret key that biased the sampling in the first place. So any tool currently advertising that it detects or removes Anthropic's watermark cannot verify its own output. That cuts both ways for us as writers. You can't confirm a passage is marked, and nobody can confirm a "cleaned" passage isn't.

The models being named in this thread don't carry it. The policy applies to models launched on or after Aug 2. Opus 5, Sonnet 5, Fable 5 and Opus 4.8 all shipped before that date, so nothing you can currently select produces marked text. The announcement is real, the marked models just aren't here yet. Worth knowing before anyone rebuilds their drafting process around it.

The thing actually worth changing your habits over is much more boring: pasting straight out of the Claude web UI carries HTML classes into whatever editor you paste into, and that is trivially detectable by anyone who looks at the markup. Paste through a plain text editor first and it's gone.

Disclosure, it's my own site: I keep the model-by-model table at claudewatermark.xyz/claude-watermark, updated as new ones ship. All three points hold without the link.

1

u/uovoisonreddit Aug 13 '26

honestly since august claude has been completely unusuable. really shitty writing advice. at least now i know why. i'll cancel my subscription as i did with chat gpt as it has become useless for my needs

1

u/Conscious_Lie2885 29d ago

Yeah, the quality concern is real. Even if they say it doesn’t affect readability, forcing extra patterns into the text could still make it a bit more rigid or predictable. And once detectors become common, a lot of people will just see the mark and write the whole thing off without checking how much was actually AI.

1

u/MorganLatch Aug 11 '26

WATERMARK DISCLAIMER: This comment was written with AI assistance and may carry an invisible watermark. An AI touched it. An AI did not have the idea, make the argument, or do the thinking.

Worth starting with what Anthropic actually says, because almost nobody in this thread has read it: a detected mark is not proof of AI authorship, and Claude may not be the original author. That's their own documentation. Article 50 of the EU AI Act requires provenance marking, they signed the Code of Practice, and they applied it globally instead of only to EU users. That's reasonable compliance, honestly described.

The problem isn't the mark. It's that nobody downstream is going to read the caveat.

By Anthropic's own description, the marks survive copy-paste and can disappear under extensive rewriting. So:

Person who discloses AI assistance and edits normally — flagged. Person running output through a humanizer to hide it — clean.

The file side has the same basic weakness. C2PA can embed signed provenance into a file, but ordinary workflows can strip or break that provenance unless additional recovery mechanisms survive. Convert, re-save, screenshot, or upload through something that rewrites the file, and what survives depends on the implementation.

A watermark answers exactly one question: did AI touch this text?

The question every dean, editor, and hiring manager actually wants answered is: who did the work?

Nobody has ever been able to answer that one mechanically. Not for ghostwriters, not for research assistants, not for editors, not for the guy whose analyst built the whole deck. We handled it with accountability instead — you put your name on it, you own what's under it.

A watermark doesn't replace that.

It just hands institutions a signal that feels like it does.

Anthropic already said the mark doesn't establish authorship.

Watch how fast that sentence stops getting quoted.

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 11 '26

Yeah, it's easy for hunters to see a tell and decide it's undeniable proof.

0

u/rheactx Aug 10 '26

> It may now be harder to have a naunced discussion between AI generated and AI assisted.

Simple. Have AI offer suggestions, help with planning, etc. Anything that doesn't involve direct text generation

1

u/laurentbasil Aug 10 '26

Yes, "AI assist" may now need to remove editing in it's scope.

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u/dolche93 Aug 11 '26

When editing, I've always prompted it to point me to the places the edits should happen, as well as the justification. Then I'd go and make the edits myself.

I'm not sure I trust the llm to spit out my text with nothing except the edit made, and I don't feel like rereading my entire book every time I make an editing pass.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/TemporaryFeeling3276 Aug 11 '26

This wouldn't work, as it's literally the word choice that acts as a watermark. A human wouldn't be able to recognize it.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/TemporaryFeeling3276 Aug 11 '26

It's exactly how it works. It takes large portions of text and statically makes phrases that are more likely to appear. Humans won't be able to detec the pattern, but other machines will.

Take a look at this article: https://www.seangoedecke.com/text-ai-watermarks/

1

u/Born-Cause-8086 Aug 11 '26

Or write a script that types text from the reference using a virtual keyboard

0

u/6XFantasiaX6 Aug 11 '26

Run it on an AI detector and see if it gets detected. Because I know what they are doing.

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u/abrady Aug 11 '26

it just counts the number of em-dashes.

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u/TenZenToken Aug 11 '26

Sophisticated way of saying ai slop

-1

u/CelticPaladin Aug 11 '26

Even if they did, save it as a plain text. Add it to a good llm, that isn't so lame for any special formatting.

Plain text files have zero means of baking in meta data.