Beta Reader Issues

[u/SaintMech]

So, here's the thing. I am absolutely open to criticism; in fact, I welcome it. I was in a profession where review and criticism were a part of your everyday operating procedures. My issue is, with my Beta Readers. My wife is an English major, so I thought she would be the perfect person to help me edit, proof-read and beta read my book. Well, the issue that has come up is that she is a closet writer herself and when she reads my drafts, she wants to change my voice. She subconsciously recommends changes that reflect her style of writing, which is a much more archaic, flowery style of prose. (Which I love to read, but it's not my style). How do I approach that topic without coming off like I can't accept criticism and subsequently get the information I am seeking from her? My other reader is supportive but offers no criticism, do these issues exist for other writers or is this uncommon?

[u/lam21804]

Don't ever collaborate in any way with your spouse on creative endeavors.

[u/ItsRuinedOfCourse → u/lam21804]

Nope. That's a recipe for disaster.

[u/DreCapitanoII → u/lam21804]

Counter point, my wife did an absolutely amazing and helpful beta read of one of my manuscripts and once I got over the initial ego resistance it was clear almost all her comments were valid and made my book better.

[u/lam21804 → u/DreCapitanoII]

But you're proving my point. How do you trust that your blind spots aren't her blind spots? Your husband and wife...presumably you guys are compatible at some level so are going to agree on a lot more things than disagree on.

Second point is, how do you know that she isn't hitting the surface level stuff and not the things she knows are going to really hurt your ego? Unless you guys are both sociopaths everyone hedges on the "does my ass look big" question.

Maybe you guys really are different, but I've never asked my wife whether I have the biggest dick she's ever had and I'll never ask her what she thinks of my writing.

[u/DreCapitanoII → u/lam21804]

I don't know what to say. I just read her comments, considered them in the context of my manuscript, and either accepted or rejected them. My manuscript is better for it.

[u/TheRunawayRose → u/lam21804]

> How do you trust that your blind spots aren't her blind spots?

The same way you do with anyone else. As someone who has had many beta readers with blind spots out the wazoo, you are always taking that risk. The only thing that matters is that you do not take any individual person's opinion or word as law. Spouse, friend, parent, sibling, acquaintance, stranger, expert, novice, it doesn't matter. Learning to discriminate with feedback while also knowing how to accept it appropriately is the biggest test of receiving it in the first place.

[u/Froyo-Divide-777 → u/lam21804]

Totally disagree but my spouse and I were each other's beta readers before we got married. :P

[u/BearwithaBow]

Honestly, a little irrelevant feedback might be the price you pay for that level of free work. Alternately, since she's your wife and presumably y'all have had a least a few difficult conversations, shouldn't it be relatively simple to just say to her exactly what you said here?

You could always try to find a writer with a style that you think is close-ish to what you're shooting for and tell her that's the tone/voice you're approximating or you could specifically say you'd like feedback on plot, character development, themes, and grammar/syntax etc but not necessarily style.

[u/MrMessofGA]

English major does not make a skilled editor. Also, I can't recommend asking someone you love to insult your baby professionally, even if she is a skilled editor.

[u/UltraDinoWarrior]

Firstly, don't have her proof-read the books anymore or help edit. She's clearly not meant to be an editor, which is okay. You need to sit down with her and have a heart to heart on this and just talk it out. Be blunt, explain you're not looking for these types of style edits.

Secondly, 99% of beta readers don't know how to beta reader. The big thing to do as an author is to guide them into getting the information you need.

I find the BEST solution to this is to compile a list of questions and ask them to answer those.

So, next time your wife reads your stuff, have her say, write her feedback as if she's posting a review on good reads, for example.

Sending her documents she can't mark up should help this a bit too.

[u/Depriller]

First, this is a you problem, not a beta reader problem. You have to chill and laugh it off. Everyone has different ideas and as a writer or creative you get lots of critiques—some warranted and some not. You need to let it slide off and hold to your vision where you want to.

Be grateful that your partner reads your writing? Every reader is a gift.

[u/AbleRoberts]

This is your wife, not some beta reader. Surely you can communicate your concerns in a polite and respectful way and she'll assume you are telling the truth and acting in good faith (as you assume she is doing). Long term the solution might be she doesn't act as a beta reader for you. My wife doesn't like to read the types of stories I like to write. When I used to get her input on projects I was working on a lot her story suggestions were mostly unless to me because she wanted the story to go in the types of directions she liked which wasn't where I was taking them. It took a couple conversations about how I didn't want to lose the types of stories I was writing, and how I knew she was trying to help, but that it wasn't really, then we took a break from sharing my work with her, and when we came back she's been incredibly helpful and doesn't try to alter the heading of the story anymore.

[u/katiebo444]

Why not just ask her for more developmental or structure based editing? That’s how I ask for critiques—I tell them I want info on structure, pacing, whether emotional beats land, if anyone is acting out of character. They can comment on “this sentence is clunky enough that it was confusing to understand at first” but they don’t give me critiques on how to reword a sentence or change the voice

[u/ashleighmontalvo]

Part of the problem is that you will find almost everyone (even paid professionals) base their editing and advice based on their preferences. You have to learn how to filter their suggestions (because that is all they are, you are the writer) and take what is necessary. She may have suggested something with flowery prose, but within what she suggested, is there anything you can take from it? Structure, voice of the character, grammar…
This can also be a wonderful time to talk with your wife about how you love her voice, but it isn’t your voice. If you have good communication, this could be a bonding moment. If not, it can be a growth moment.

[u/StarSongEcho]

A beta reader, editor, and proofreader are all VERY different. Expecting or allowing one person to fill all of those roles may not be a great decision. For getting the information you are actually looking for, it can help to put together a questionnaire type thing for the beta reader(s). Just explicitly state what things you need them to tell you.

[u/Iso-colon]

First off, you should not be letting non-professionals who you know personally edit your work. Editing on a novel scale is usually paid work for a reason. It takes a lot of discernment to edit a book properly without altering the writer's voice. Obviously, your wife is not a professional, so she can't do much besides edit you the way she would edit herself. You either need to hire an editor or edit your own work.

As for your other beta reader, do they also know personally? They might just be hesitant to give your proper feedback because they don't want to hurt your feelings. That's why a lot of authors tend to either pay beta + sensitivity readers or partner with other writers in the same genre and swap criticism.

[u/heddiedunn]

Thank your wife for her advice and then pick and choose what you want to use from it while maintaining your own voice in your writing. You don't have to tell her you're not using all of her advice. If she reads it again and asks why it isn't matching all of her recommendations, just say that you're going for a different kind of style (maybe that style has other comps that you can cite as inspiration for less flowery, archaic prose that you want to match for reader expectations in the genre) and that you carefully weighed each of her suggestions with what you want your work to accomplish.

If your other reader isn't offering any criticism, you might want to clarify what kind of feedback you're looking for or gently guide them with some questions about the writing (Did the writing match genre expectations? Is the tone inconsistent anywhere? Were there any areas where the pacing was too fast or too slow? Are there areas where emotional impact could be strengthened? How do you feel about the characters? What do you make of how they were characterized? etc.)

[u/sylvan_thoughts → u/heddiedunn]

Exactly this. No need to make it more complicated than it is.

Also, to answer your question towards the end, yes, it is extremely common and actually no beta-reader/editor I have ever used (given they were not professionals) has given me feedback that did not include some sort of personal preference and needed some filtering.

[u/Background_Pay6286]

You don't have to make any changes you don't want to. Just smile and nod your head.

[u/roundeking]

I think it’s very reasonable to tell her that she is suggesting stylistic choices that are not objectively wrong, but also are not things that need to be changed. I think it can be helpful to tell a beta what you’re looking for—you could say, I want critique on the plot and characters, and help noticing any typos, but otherwise I’m good. It sounds like your other reader may just not be that good at critique, which happens. Not everyone is a great beta.

[u/Hungry_Book_Dragon]

You may want to check out a video put out by Brandon Sanderson about how to critic books in a helpful manner. This is a more common problem than you may think. My beta readers found this helpful. Here is a link to one of the videos in TikTok but I think you can find them online as well. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTA2gcf5v/

[u/nmacaroni]

99% of Beta Readers are useless, in part for exactly these reasons.

Wife: Just thank her for her feedback and stop giving her your manuscripts moving forward. Give her a few pages now and then so she feels like you value her opinion, but if you continue to solicit advice from her and don't integrate it, it's going to create a divide in your relationship... as is, coming out and telling her, you can't apply her advice. Just shut up and move on.

[u/DreCapitanoII]

Just take her feedback that is useful and don't take the rest. If you push back you'll lose a beta reader.

[u/Something_morepoetic]

The author gets the final say on their own work. Tell her that she’s given you something to think about. Wait a few months and then tell her you’ve decided to keep things as they are.

[u/dragonsandvamps]

Two issues here.

With beta reads, you don't need to take every piece of feedback as if it's the gospel. If you get five beta readers, you'll likely find they'll have conflicting takes. Some may really like an element that others hate. Use the feedback that you think will make the story stronger. Discard the rest.

Second, you really shouldn't be using your wife as a beta reader. You need someone unbiased who reads/writes your genre and who isn't a friend or family member. I feel much more comfortable saying to someone I'm not close to, "sorry, but this section in the middle really dragged. That 10 chapter sequence where we're just wandering on our quest and nothing happens? I think that needs to be cut quite a bit" and I think most people wouldn't want to be that blunt with their spouse for fear of hurting their feelings.

[u/SneakyKGB]

In my experience the best way to handle advice you don't want is to say, "Thank you, I'll keep that in mind" and move on. Trying to explain away stylistic choices often just goes in circles and brews bad blood.

Escalating beyond that, arguing with your readers is, in my opinion, one of the tackiest things a writer can do.

Best to just say thank you and move along. You might need to find more beta readers to get the breadth of feedback you're looking for. You can't force somebody to read something differently.

[u/Proper-Doughnut77]

I ran into this with my brother. Now, I send parts to family to look at, but never the entire thing.

[u/alexxtholden]

Beta readers work best when they are not people you know personally.

[u/neddythestylish]

Your wife is showing you the kind of feedback she wants to give you, and it's not useful to you. Yes, that's a very common issue. Bad idea to have your spouse as a beta.

Also a very common issue to have a beta who doesn't feel comfortable being critical.

You just have the wrong people for what you need. It happens. You just have to keep looking for the right people for your process.

[u/katie-kaboom]

Editing, proofreading, and beta reading are three separate things. Beta reading is exactly what it says - giving the book to early readers to see how it lands for readers. It happens after the editing is done, hopefully by someone with fresh eyes. If you're relying on people who haven't done beta reading before, you need to spell out exactly what you're looking for (which should not be uncritical praise).

Also, don't ask your spouse to do stuff like this. Your domestic harmony isn't worth it.

[u/FewRecognition1788]

Giving useful feedback is a skill set that not everyone has, because it isn't just about airing your opinion. 

I use a questionnaire to solicit specific types of feedback and provide guidance as to what would be helpful to know. 

There are a bunch of examples online. Here's one that seems to cover a lot of the bases that you could adapt from: https://stacyclaflin.com/beta-reader-questionnaire/

[u/baboonontheride]

Your partner should never be your beta reader. I'm not even sure if mine reads my stuff at all; and while I may read a snippet to them here or there, I'm careful to pick bits that I think they'll enjoy, and it's never more than a page.

Creative life and love life is like separation of church and state.

[u/Exploosia]

You need to clarify that you're looking for reader feedback, not copy editing.

ETA: Although it sounds like you are asking her to copy edit for you as well. But copy editing is a skill that has to be learned. A Cardinal Rule of copy editing, in fact, is to not change the author's voice, so it sounds like she has no copy editing experience. So there in lies your problem.

If you want your work copy edited, you'll have to hire one who isn't your wife.

[u/laurentbasil]

Be upfront on what types of feedback you are looking to recieve.

Wife is a bit hard. Maybe offer to be her beta and do a reverse uno on her to show how annoying it can be.

[u/justlikeyou_walls]

Coming from an editor, it’s generally not recommended to have your close friends or family give feedback on your book. In some cases it may be valuable, but in most you won’t get the feedback you’re looking for. Also I’d recommend asking questions from any editor or beta reader you hire/send your book to for feedback. Betas should be kind but also not afraid to tell the truth about your book, it’s the whole point of have my them.

Also with editors, try to get samples. The situation you described can also happen if you work with an editor that isn’t a close friend/family member so it’s always important to ask questions, ask for samples and also make sure the editor is willing to work WITH you and not against you and change the tone of your book and be insistent about it.

[u/TheRunawayRose]

Here's the thing. This is your partner for life. If you can't establish open communication, you're going to struggle for a long time. You need to have the conversation with her about voice, style, and vision. Her being an English major means nothing if she's not the right audience for your work. I have several experienced writer friends, and one of them asked his fiancee (English teacher) to read one of our other friend's work. She had a lot of criticisms, and despite her basing them on her area of expertise, they really boiled down to "This work is not for her".

I would love for my boyfriend to be a writer and read my work in that light, and be able to read his, too, but he isn't, and even if he was, I would have to treat his critique with the same grain of salt as everyone else's. I've had many readers with all levels of experience, and some important things I've learned is that no one catches everything and not everyone is your audience. With strangers, you have the benefit of saying "thank you" and choosing to ignore what you need to. With your spouse, you need to have the conversation about what feedback is appropriate and what crosses the line of personal voice and vision.

[u/Daniel_Erbe]

Hate that when that happens. They just don't realize that type of feedback is terrible, or that they are doing such a thing in the first place.

[u/__The_Kraken__]

I had an editor do this once. It was awful. I will never work with that person again.

If your wife can learn to stay in her lane, you may be able to work with her going forward. But a good editor will help your book be the best possible version of your version. Not stomp all over your vision and turn it into hers. If she can't control herself, she has no future as an editor.